United’s next manager

Seij

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Not exactly. There's more to managing than just signing players.

We could sign the World XI, but we would still be less than the sum of our parts under Ole.
Does anyone believe that Liverpool would have won the CL last season and be sitting at 24 wins and 1 draw well on their way to a record breaking season under Solskjaer? Would Henderson and Wijnaldum look like world beaters under Solskjaer?
 

croadyman

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Poch spotted with Neil Ashton at Leeds game. Think we are definitely in touch.
There might be something in them spotted together at the game, wouldn't surprise me if someone that Ashton knows within the club tipped off Poch's people but I could be completely wrong and it was coincidental. Bit funny that the stuff came out yesterday saying he was interested in managing in the premier league though wasn't it
 

RedBanker

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There might be something in them spotted together at the game, wouldn't surprise me if someone that Ashton knows within the club tipped off Poch's people but I could be completely wrong and it was coincidental. Bit funny that the stuff came out yesterday saying he was interested in managing in the premier league though wasn't it
Yes. Am happy that we are in touch with at least one brilliant young manager. We should also be trying to assess other young up and coming managers such as Nagelsmann. There is no rule against poaching managers right? Let's see how this Poch development progresses. Imagine if next he attends a United game at Old Trafford.
 

croadyman

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Yes. Am happy that we are in touch with at least one brilliant young manager. We should also be trying to assess other young up and coming managers such as Nagelsmann. There is no rule against poaching managers right? Let's see how this Poch development progresses. Imagine if next he attends a United game at Old Trafford.
Cannot see any way that he attends a Utd game while Ole is still in charge because think he has too much respect for him, would love to see Nagelsmann in charge of the club one day after a few more years in Germany but only comes here if we sort out the structure above the manager which at the moment is a complete and utter mess.
 

MikeKing

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Does anyone believe that Liverpool would have won the CL last season and be sitting at 24 wins and 1 draw well on their way to a record breaking season under Solskjaer? Would Henderson and Wijnaldum look like world beaters under Solskjaer?
Would they under SAF? Henderson and Wijnaldum have nothing on the likes of Scholes and Carrick.
 

AneRu

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Look at how quickly the situation can change in football. I'm dreading us hanging about, only for City to swoop in if Guardiola decides to leave.
Certainly and with the CL knockouts around the corner lots of big jobs could open up, for example I don't see Sarri and Tuchel surviving an early CL exit whilst the specter of Pep doing a runner at City looms large on the horizon. The board has to wake up and take decisive action or we are looking at missing out on a manager that suits what we need right now to a tee.
 

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Nagelsmann/Rose would be ideal, if we want to get ahead and be a top team in the coming decade of football. I really feel we need to find a manager with fresh ideas about the sport. We missed the boat on Pep/Klopp but we should really try get ahead of the curve and get the next big managers and innovators.

I feel they would be hard to bring aboard given they are still new at their current clubs so if we get someone like Poch who is still a modern coach and will be good option even if I have my own reservations on him.
 

RedBanker

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Nagelsmann/Rose would be ideal, if we want to get ahead and be a top team in the coming decade of football. I really feel we need to find a manager with fresh ideas about the sport. We missed the boat on Pep/Klopp but we should really try get ahead of the curve and get the next big managers and innovators.

I feel they would be hard to bring aboard given they are still new at their current clubs so if we get someone like Poch who is still a modern coach and will be good option even if I have my own reservations on him.
Poch is a modern coach with a fair record at his last club. He knows how to integrate youngsters, and operate with limited resources. He is not uber attacking but neither too pragmatic. He will certainly not be as big a gamble as Solskjaer. Even if he can replicate his 55 percent win record as with Spurs, it will be a good move. He is not going to lead us to trophies in a jiffy but he will definitely give the team an identity and more than one gameplan, both of which are missing right now. His team's have work ethic, industry, meaningful pressing, defensive discipline and also individuals get chances to showcase their talents. He has encouraged flair players to do their stuff on the field and also shown formation flexibility when required. He will be a practical choice as our new manager.
 

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I've not seen anything of Nagelsmann other than he's in his early thirties and have coached 2 nothing teams. What makes people so certain he can do well here?
 

Hawks2008

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Poch is a modern coach with a fair record at his last club. He knows how to integrate youngsters, and operate with limited resources. He is not uber attacking but neither too pragmatic. He will certainly not be as big a gamble as Solskjaer. Even if he can replicate his 55 percent win record as with Spurs, it will be a good move. He is not going to lead us to trophies in a jiffy but he will definitely give the team an identity and more than one gameplan, both of which are missing right now. His team's have work ethic, industry, meaningful pressing, defensive discipline and also individuals get chances to showcase their talents. He has encouraged flair players to do their stuff on the field and also shown formation flexibility when required. He will be a practical choice as our new manager.
I agree with everything you said but still feel he is more pragmatic than people say, and slightly concerned he could not win at least a cup with a very good team (that he built to be fair).

He is leagues ahead of Ole and as you say a modern coach who I think would bring a lot of improvement. I would be very happy if he becomes our manager even if he isn't my perfect candidate.
 

Cassidy

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I've not seen anything of Nagelsmann other than he's in his early thirties and have coached 2 nothing teams. What makes people so certain he can do well here?
Go and do some research.
 

RedBanker

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I agree with everything you said but still feel he is more pragmatic than people say, and slightly concerned he could not win at least a cup with a very good team (that he built to be fair).

He is leagues ahead of Ole and as you say a modern coach who I think would bring a lot of improvement. I would be very happy if he becomes our manager even if he isn't my perfect candidate.
He has had to be pragmatic. Here's the reason why:
1. Despite being good performers and challenging the top four consistently he has had net spends of 28 million pounds in 16-17 and 16 million pounds in 17-18.
2. In his best season when he reached the CL final he was given ZERO new players. He proved that he had squeezed every last drop from the team at hand.
3. The CL final defeat was a crushing thing for him. Throughout the past years he competed with teams which had invested millions while he swam with his hands tied behind his back. There was mental fatigue for him after the CL loss and he may have finally cracked under a justified feeling of injustice.

There is more in his locker. And a fresh challenge with us will bring it out.
 

romufc

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I think Moyes did rather well for Everton, too. That‘s a bad example for proving your case.
It was an example that it wasn't only one season. Considering he got a bigger job in Spurs before us wanting him is totally different to Moyes.
 

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Kovac won Frankfurt their first trophy since 1988 so who's disrespecting who here.
Significant for them but insignificant for everyone else.

Please guys at least try to be realistic and don't be a hipster trying to find the next top rated manager as if you're Redcafe football version of Simon Cowell.
 

Sad Chris

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It was an example that it wasn't only one season. Considering he got a bigger job in Spurs before us wanting him is totally different to Moyes.
I agree with your general point, I just thought it was a bad example
 

meamth

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He has had to be pragmatic. Here's the reason why:
1. Despite being good performers and challenging the top four consistently he has had net spends of 28 million pounds in 16-17 and 16 million pounds in 17-18.
2. In his best season when he reached the CL final he was given ZERO new players. He proved that he had squeezed every last drop from the team at hand.
3. The CL final defeat was a crushing thing for him. Throughout the past years he competed with teams which had invested millions while he swam with his hands tied behind his back. There was mental fatigue for him after the CL loss and he may have finally cracked under a justified feeling of injustice.

There is more in his locker. And a fresh challenge with us will bring it out.
I like this post.
I'm one of the most optimistic guy, always supporting Ole.

But I don't think we can overlook Poch, the only respectful move we can do is to replace him during the summer.
 

mu4c_20le

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Significant for them but insignificant for everyone else.

Please guys at least try to be realistic and don't be a hipster trying to find the next top rated manager as if you're Redcafe football version of Simon Cowell.
Insignificant for you maybe. It's their FA Cup and he beat Bayern fecking Munich in the final to win it. I'm not saying he's necessarily a good fit for us, but I do think he is better than Poch. Also won the domestic treble with Bayern and was only sacked because of a couple of bad results in the second season. He didn't even completely lose the dressing room and leave the team heading toward relegation.
 

JPRouve

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I've not seen anything of Nagelsmann other than he's in his early thirties and have coached 2 nothing teams. What makes people so certain he can do well here?
Nagelsmann has turned unimpressive groups of players into pretty good units at Hoffenheim and now Leipzig, squeezing everything out of them, it's generally the sign of a manager that can make the step up. The "2 nothing teams" part is I believe shortsighted because most managers come from this type of teams and unless someone gives them a chance in the upper echelon, they will always have that stigma. It's also worth mentioning that most managers that are available and have managed bigger clubs failed with them at some point which in my opinion should be a bigger stigma than not having been given the chance to step up. At the end of the day, no guarantees success in a different environment whether we are talking about the big names or the new comers, we shouldn't put that much emphasis on reputation and look at their recent body of work.
 

RedBanker

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I like this post.
I'm one of the most optimistic guy, always supporting Ole.

But I don't think we can overlook Poch, the only respectful move we can do is to replace him during the summer.
Spurs should be forever indebted to Poch for keeping his mouth shut and keeping the team at a high level for the larger part of his tenure. He finished 2nd with an 86 point season in 16-17 with a net spend of just 28 million pounds. Their highest in decades. And then he was backed how? With a net spend of just 16 million pounds the following season! Spurs built their new stadium and yet maintained respectability thanks to him. I am amazed that even after his sacking he never spoke about his time at Spurs in any negative light. Speaks volumes of his professionalism. Despite all his constraints his worst league position in five full seasons at Spurs was 5th, which was his first season and he had to pick the team from Sherwood's mess. After that they have consistently been in CL.
 

JPRouve

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Spurs should be forever indebted to Poch for keeping his mouth shut and keeping the team at a high level for the larger part of his tenure. He finished 2nd with an 86 point season in 16-17 with a net spend of just 28 million pounds. Their highest in decades. And then he was backed how? With a net spend of just 16 million pounds the following season! Spurs built their new stadium and yet maintained respectability thanks to him. I am amazed that even after his sacking he never spoke about his time at Spurs in any negative light. Speaks volumes of his professionalism. Despite all his constraints his worst league position in five full seasons at Spurs was 5th, which was his first season and he had to pick the team from Sherwood's mess. After that they have consistently been in CL.
What was he supposed to say, they didn't have more money?
 

SirAF

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Spurs should be forever indebted to Poch for keeping his mouth shut and keeping the team at a high level for the larger part of his tenure. He finished 2nd with an 86 point season in 16-17 with a net spend of just 28 million pounds. Their highest in decades. And then he was backed how? With a net spend of just 16 million pounds the following season! Spurs built their new stadium and yet maintained respectability thanks to him. I am amazed that even after his sacking he never spoke about his time at Spurs in any negative light. Speaks volumes of his professionalism. Despite all his constraints his worst league position in five full seasons at Spurs was 5th, which was his first season and he had to pick the team from Sherwood's mess. After that they have consistently been in CL.
He probably had a NDA or something like that, but yeah I do agree with your post overall.
 

RedBanker

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What was he supposed to say, they didn't have more money?
He was a thorough professional during and after his stint. He was always calm in the face of constraints and restrictions. No barbs, no jibes, no wordplay. That was my point. Nothing more or less. He was thoroughly more justified to speak out than some of his contemporaries, considering how much he did with how little he got.

I still remember how emotional he became after the CL semis win. It was the expression of a man who had waded through a lot of difficulties to get where he was.
 

JPRouve

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He was a thorough professional during and after his stint. He was always calm in the face of constraints and restrictions. No barbs, no jibes, no wordplay. That was my point. Nothing more or less. He was thoroughly more justified to speak out than some of his contemporaries, considering how much he did with how little he got.

I still remember how emotional he became after the CL semis win. It was the expression of a man who had waded through a lot of difficulties to get where he was.
But again what was he supposed to say? He joined a club that isn't particularly wealthy at a time where they were building and financing new infrastructures. What was he supposed to speak out about, the way you say it you would think that there is some hidden reality. He got what he was supposed to have when he signed for Tottenham, he wasn't more justified to speak out, the fact that he overachieved didn't change the financial reality of Tottenham when he was at the club.
 

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Stories in Italy that Allegri has a deal with a major English club to take over in summer…which means he is now being linked with us. But could it be City?
 

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But again what was he supposed to say? He joined a club that isn't particularly wealthy at a time where they were building and financing new infrastructures. What was he supposed to speak out about, the way you say it you would think that there is some hidden reality. He got what he was supposed to have when he signed for Tottenham, he wasn't more justified to speak out, the fact that he overachieved didn't change the financial reality of Tottenham when he was at the club.
So you mean to say that before he signed the contract there he read an understood a clause that said something like..." We will only allow you to spend a max of x millions net irrespective of how well you do here"?

He was never even remotely rewarded with the financial backing he deserved after his achievements at Spurs. It's Spurs' loss and I am happy that it may now turn out to be our gain.
 

JPRouve

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So you mean to say that before he signed the contract there he read an understood a clause that said something like..." We will only allow you to spend a max of x millions net irrespective of how well you do here"?

He was never even remotely rewarded with the financial backing he deserved after his achievements at Spurs. It's Spurs' loss and I am happy that it may now turn out to be our gain.
No, I'm saying that Spurs didn't have the money and that he knew that when he joined them.
 

SirAF

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Stories in Italy that Allegri has a deal with a major English club to take over in summer…which means he is now being linked with us. But could it be City?
That would be quite a shift in style after Guardiola though. I can't really see City going for Allegri.
 

RedBanker

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No, I'm saying that Spurs didn't have the money and that he knew that when he joined them.
And I am saying that he was a thorough professional in his behaviour despite not being backed even after giving Spurs their best ever league finish in decades.
 

Cassidy

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No, I'm saying that Spurs didn't have the money and that he knew that when he joined them.
Levy said they would invest in the squad before he signed that new deal. The stadium delay etc seemed to be an issue.
Not being rich and not making a single transfer for 18 months are 2 separate issues.
 

JPRouve

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And I am saying that he was a thorough professional in his behaviour despite not being backed even after giving Spurs their best ever league finish in decades.
"Not being backed" isn't a thing in this context, they didn't have the money. So you are basically praising someone for not being unprofessional.
 

JPRouve

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Levy said they would invest in the squad before he signed that new deal. The stadium delay etc seemed to be an issue.
Not being rich and not making a single transfer for 18 months are 2 separate issues.
Which is my point, they didn't have the money. And no they are not two separate issues, if you don't have the money, you don't have it. He joined a club that was already invested in costly infrastructure spendings, safe of being an idiot he knew exactly what was the financial reality of Tottenham.
 

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"Not being backed" isn't a thing in this context, they didn't have the money. So you are basically praising someone for not being unprofessional.
How do you know they didn't have the money? Levy is a billionaire and Lewis is multi billionaire. Because they are misers doesn't mean that Spurs didn't have the money.
 

Cassidy

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Which is my point, they didn't have the money. And no they are not two separate issues, if you don't have the money, you don't have it. He joined a club that was already invested in costly infrastructure spendings, safe of being an idiot he knew exactly what was the financial reality of Tottenham.
With respect things change. Along with the delays the new contract was signed with the promise of investment (along with selling players) which didnt happen.

I dont think there is any issue with what happened in the first 3 years or so. Everything after signing the new deal was the issue.

Personally I believe the club anticipated moving in sooner and the cost not being as high and so the delays meant promises had to be delayed.
 

JPRouve

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With respect things change. Along with the delays the new contract was signed with the promise of investment (along with selling players) which didnt happen.

I dont think there is any issue with what happened in the first 3 years or so. Everything after signing the new deal was the issue.

Personally I believe the club anticipated moving in sooner and the cost not being as high and so the delays meant promises had to be delayed.
The first sentence makes no sense in this context, if you don't have money, you simply don't. Reading all these things and seeing how some managers react, I question the maturity of some of the football people and nowadays we seemingly expect them to act like spoilt idiots.
 

Cassidy

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The first sentence makes no sense in this context, if you don't have money, you simply don't. Reading all these things and seeing how some managers react, I question the maturity of some of the football people and nowadays we seemingly expect them to act like spoilt idiots.
It does with time. If you tell me you dont have money for the next 3 years I will ask questions in year 4/5. This is the point I was making. In the context before the new contract was signed the narrative was that of money being available.