Why are they not scouting anybody, when was the last time United found a hidden gem. What do they actually do?
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United’s Scouts
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
haram
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Maybe they are scouting players.
Andersons Dietician
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I’d imagine the vast network of scouts are looking more at kids than established players. Trying to find the next Messi to get them in at bargain prices.
SAred
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So with all United's Scouts that are scouting players we have yet to find one hidden Gem while teams like Porto , Atletico Madrid and a few others find plenty so I askMaybe they are scouting players.
again what are they actually doing?
SAred
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The 70 million hidden gem not sure that counts.Martial.
Andersons Dietician
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Work permits.So with all United's Scouts that are scouting players we have yet to find one hidden Gem while teams like Porto , Atletico Madrid and a few others find plenty so I ask
again what are they actually doing?
kps88
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Who are these hidden gems?So with all United's Scouts that are scouting players we have yet to find one hidden Gem while teams like Porto , Atletico Madrid and a few others find plenty so I ask
again what are they actually doing?
.mica
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The only scouts at United are scouts working under Woodward and search for sponsors.
SAred
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Porto have been one of the best teams in finding Gems for cheap and selling high.Who are these hidden gems?
SAred
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Not to mention Monaco, plenty of gems their.Who are these hidden gems?
BrianMcClair'sBarnet
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Is this a joke ?
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Clubs like Porto, PSV, etc. buy the hidden gems, and can play them. Then one of each dozen hidden gems turn out to be a real gem, and then the bigger clubs buy these. The bigger clubs don't want to be the filter.
kps88
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Like who? Would we have gotten a work permit for them? Would they have been ready to play in the EPL? Would they have had any interest in moving to England at the start of their career? And how many of those potential hidden gems turned out to be duds?Porto have been one of the best teams in finding Gems for cheap and selling high.
SAred
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Whats the joke when was the last time United picked up a gem before they had to pay top dollar for a player.Is this a joke ?
Monaco is a totally different club with a totally different project. Monaco targets players that aren't ready for big things and needs to be developed, that's what they call post formation. It would be bad for United and the players to move at United at this stage of their careers.Not to mention Monaco, plenty of Gems their.
SAred
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So United would not want a De Jong or De Ligt playing for them..Clubs like Porto, PSV, etc. buy the hidden gems, and can play them. Then one of each dozen hidden gems turn out to be a real gem, and then the bigger clubs buy these. The bigger clubs don't want to be the filter.
SAred
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Not all gems come from Brazil.Like who? Would we have gotten a work permit for them? Would they have been ready to play in the EPL? Would they have had any interest in moving to England at the start of their career? And how many of those potential hidden gems turned out to be duds?
HJ12
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Dalot?
Maticmaker
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Tbh I have never been quite sure how the scouting system(s) work in the modern day. I suppose because of 'safeguarding' and other legal requirements, let alone football requirements, it has all got complicated, at least for the scouting of youngsters.
As for the 'scouting' of established players, this surely has become mostly a logistical exercise involving agents and publicity people, and many others. It would seem for the media at least, that United are interested in every player who its perceived might become available and many who have repeatedly said they are not!
I suppose in terms of the actual 'scouting' process its still about watching players (of what ever age) and making a report back to HQ. We might be blaming the scouting staff when in fact its the systems that follow on that want explaining?
As for the 'scouting' of established players, this surely has become mostly a logistical exercise involving agents and publicity people, and many others. It would seem for the media at least, that United are interested in every player who its perceived might become available and many who have repeatedly said they are not!
I suppose in terms of the actual 'scouting' process its still about watching players (of what ever age) and making a report back to HQ. We might be blaming the scouting staff when in fact its the systems that follow on that want explaining?
SAred
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So it seems United would rather cough up 50 million for a Fred then finding the next De Jong, seems odd.Clubs like Porto, PSV, etc. buy the hidden gems, and can play them. Then one of each dozen hidden gems turn out to be a real gem, and then the bigger clubs buy these. The bigger clubs don't want to be the filter.
SAred
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Maybe your right just confuses me that far smaller clubs are pulling in wonderful players that for some reason our vast scouting network keeps missing.Tbh I have never been quite sure how the scouting system(s) work in the modern day. I suppose because of 'safeguarding' and other legal requirements, let alone football requirements, it has all got complicated, at least for the scouting of youngsters.
As for the 'scouting' of established players, this surely has become mostly a logistical exercise involving agents and publicity people, and many others. It would seem for the media at least, that United are interested in every player who its perceived might become available and many who have repeatedly said they are not!
I suppose in terms of the actual 'scouting' process its still about watching players (of what ever age) and making a report back to HQ. We might be blaming the scouting staff when in fact its the systems that follow on that want explaining?
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No, they want to pay 1 x tens of millions instead of 12 x a couple of million. They have no need or place to develop the 12 to see which player makes it.So United would not want a De Jong or De Ligt playing for them..
shaky
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Maybe we need better scout scouts.
De Jong wasn't hidden, he was a known quantity who put his development above everything else which is why he chose Ajax. These clubs guarantee two things, they are used to take care of young players and they have game time to give.So it seems United would rather cough up 50 million for a Fred then finding the next De Jong, seems odd.
kps88
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You're kidding yourself if you think De Jong would have wanted to join us at 18 rather than play regular first team football at Ajax. Once they prove themselves at the smaller club, they move to a bigger one. That's how it's always worked; the good ones are smart enough to plan their careers.Not all Gems come from Brazil.
devilish
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https://talksport.com/football/4593...-frenkie-de-jong-matthis-de-ligt-ed-woodward/
I guess they were doing their job but weren't really listened to.
I guess they were doing their job but weren't really listened to.
SAred
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So how has that worked out for United most of Uniteds big money signings have flopped.No, they want to pay 1 x tens of millions instead of 12 x a couple of million. They have no need or place to develop the 12 to see which player makes it.
SAred
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Well that is just daft, maybe Ed is the problem not the scouts. Who ever is to blame it just seems not to be working to well.https://talksport.com/football/4593...-frenkie-de-jong-matthis-de-ligt-ed-woodward/
I guess they were doing their job but weren't really listened to.
Ok, clearly you don't want an actual answer, you just want another thread to moan in.The 70 million hidden Gem not sure that counts.
devilish
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Langley was sacked in 2016 ie at the eve of Mourinho's era. I guess Woodward and his pet thought that De Ligt and De Jong weren't really what United needed and we would be better off signing older dudes like Ibrahimovic, Mkhitaryan and Perisic/Sanchez.Well that is just daft, maybe Ed is the problem not the scouts. Who ever is to blame it just seems not to be working to well.
SAred
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No just think your version of a gem and mine differ,you don't cough up 70 million for a hidden gem. You find him before you cough up big money like Monaco did and does.Ok, clearly you don't want an actual answer, you just want another thread to moan in.
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He was a hidden gem, didn't even get playtime at Willem II.De Jong wasn't hidden, he was a known quantity who put his development above everything else which is why he chose Ajax. These clubs guarantee two things, they are used to take care of young players and they have game time to give.
That's a different question altogether. Let's say for argument's sake that a new Porto signing has a 10% chance to become a top player, and a new big club signing has 50% chance of turning out to be a good signing. United is in this game. That it ain't exact science and the 50% might not be reached, would not be fixed by going for the 10% group, you'd have the same problem there but enlarged.So how has that worked out for United most of Uniteds big money signings have flopped.
In any case, United would not have played De Jong and De Ligt in the national and CL league at the ages Ajax did, and they would not have developed in the same way. That's exactly why they stayed at Ajax so far.
SAred
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Theirs the problem seems like Ed who makes the money feels it is his right to spend it has he pleases, well Ed it is not working.Langley was sacked in 2016 ie at the eve of Mourinho's era. I guess Woodward and his pet thought that De Ligt and De Jong weren't really what United needed and we would be better off signing older dudes like Ibrahimovic, Mkhitaryan and Perisic/Sanchez.
De Jong wasn't an hidden gem, he was followed in the youth football circuit which is the case for pretty much all youth internationals.He was a hidden gem, didn't even get playtime at Willem II.
SAred
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And that can apply to a big money signing to ie Fred and a few others. In football like life there is no guarantees but would be nice to see United adopting some of Porto , Ajax and Monaco's recruitment ideas.He was a hidden gem, didn't even get playtime at Willem II.
That's a different question altogether. Let's say for argument's sake that a new Porto signing has a 10% chance to become a top player, and a new big club signing has 50% chance of turning out to be a good signing. United is in this game. That it ain't exact science and the 50% might not be reached, would not be fixed by going for the 10% group, you'd have the same problem there but enlarged.
In any case, United would not have played De Jong and De Ligt in the national and CL league at the ages Ajax did, and they would not have developed in the same way. That's exactly why they stayed at Ajax so far.
You realize that it's BS. There is a reason why both are still at Ajax today and will only move this summer and it's not because they weren't spotted.Langley was sacked in 2016 ie at the eve of Mourinho's era. I guess Woodward and his pet thought that De Ligt and De Jong weren't really what United needed and we would be better off signing older dudes like Ibrahimovic, Mkhitaryan and Perisic/Sanchez.
Maticmaker
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Yes it does seem strange with all our resources and what we assume are large 'networks' we seem unable to find the 'gems'? Yet looking at some of our existing youngsters, e.g. Garner, Chong, Gomes etc. I think at least one of these will turn out to be a superstar. Rashford is still improving and so is McTominay; true these are unlikely to turn out as another Ronaldo or Messi, but to coin a phrase "United has got Talent" in the pipeline.Maybe your right just confuses me that far smaller clubs are pulling in wonderful players that for some reason our vast scouting network keeps missing.
So someone somewhere is getting it right!
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You did get "hidden gems", e.g. Chong. He's one that won't make it IMO. How are you going to separate the ones that make it from the ones that don't, at the age they got him? You'd need 12 Chongs to get a winner. And how are you going to develop them - Chong hasn't played a game I think since he had a bad game at PSG. De Ligt made errors when he started playing, and it was no problem, just development.