United’s Scouts

manutddjw

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The way I look at it is the scouts did their job. We knew we wanted a winger and our scouts that we know of identified Sancho, Dembele, Facundo, Traore. It’s not their fault or Ole’s that we have an incompetent who left everything until the last minute.
 

horsechoker

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With report that United are backing ten Hag's targets over the scouting department, we have to ask where this leaves them?

While it's good ETH gets what he wants, long-term its not a good strategy when we get another manager.
 

NickSantigo

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I have to admit I have been concerned by some of our targets. All Dutch, ex-Ajax or ETH.

I fear our scouting network is being neglected and history will repeat itself
 

pascell

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With report that United are backing ten Hag's targets over the scouting department, we have to ask where this leaves them?

While it's good ETH gets what he wants, long-term its not a good strategy when we get another manager.
It was said at the departures of Lawlor and Bout that we'd be primarily targeting players ten Hag has identified this summer, then we'll bring in the relevant appointments and broaden our scope for the future windows.
 

TheReligion

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With report that United are backing ten Hag's targets over the scouting department, we have to ask where this leaves them?

While it's good ETH gets what he wants, long-term its not a good strategy when we get another manager.
Have the club replaced Lawlor and Bout yet?

I thought they hadn’t which explains why that might be the case.
 

bond19821982

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I would have preferred Torres over Martinez but hey let's wait and see ! ETH knows what he is doing (hopefully)
 

RedRonaldo

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With report that United are backing ten Hag's targets over the scouting department, we have to ask where this leaves them?

While it's good ETH gets what he wants, long-term its not a good strategy when we get another manager.
I’ve always think about this, maybe scouts should focus on unearthing the future gems, while the club should back the manager on getting the players he wants.
 

Yakuza_devils

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For long term, we absolutely need to move away from manager having all the power to make decision on signings.

If not we have learn nothing from the last 10 years of disaster.
 

Mickeza

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For long term, we absolutely need to move away from manager having all the power to make decision on signings.

If not we have learn nothing from the last 10 years of disaster.
We’re likely to spend circa 200m this summer all on players ETH has managed or seen in the Dutch league - no other club would be giving him that sort of power. It’s genuinely batshit crazy and a massive risk.
 

devilish

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We’re likely to spend circa 200m this summer all on players ETH has managed or seen in the Dutch league - no other club would be giving him that sort of power. It’s genuinely batshit crazy and a massive risk.
and yet some think that there's a new and improved Manchester United
 

Yakuza_devils

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We’re likely to spend circa 200m this summer all on players ETH has managed or seen in the Dutch league - no other club would be giving him that sort of power. It’s genuinely batshit crazy and a massive risk.
It's definitely worrying as Ole spent almost 500mil and look at our squad now.

Hope our so called new football structure can catch up fast with the rest of top club in Europe.

For now, we only can hope ETH knows what he is doing.
 

#07

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We’re likely to spend circa 200m this summer all on players ETH has managed or seen in the Dutch league - no other club would be giving him that sort of power. It’s genuinely batshit crazy and a massive risk.
It could go right but I agree with you. I have no idea what our 'football structure' does.

If the worst happens and Ten Hag doesn't work out, I would not be confident that Murtough knows what the next move is.

Has Murtough worked out in his head what happens with all these Ajax players. Has he lined up a coach in his head who can come in and use them to the best of their abilities?

Or is just going to be 180 get in a coach and see who they want?

A Director of Football is meant to have a handle on this stuff. They're meant to be the one leading not being led. Looks as backward as ever.

I know for a fact that if Pep quit tomorrow City would just go out and get another Barcelona/Tiki Taka manager to suit their squad. With Murtough I wouldn't be surprised if we went off and threw a truckload of cash at Diego Simeone and said turn all these Ajax 4-3-3 graduates into a dogged 4-4-2 countering side. There's no plan.
 

Sanchez7

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It really is a joke that every player we are in for is either connected to Ajax or Dutch. What the heck are our scouts/management doing? EtH has never managed in a big league, giving him so much free reign is a recipe for disaster imo. Remember when Moyesy wanted to sign his ex Everton players .. always a worrying sign.
 

Andrade

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It really is a joke that every player we are in for is either connected to Ajax or Dutch. What the heck are our scouts/management doing? EtH has never managed in a big league, giving him so much free reign is a recipe for disaster imo. Remember when Moyesy wanted to sign his ex Everton players .. always a worrying sign.
Made a similar point in the ETH thread (as have others obviously). It has been met with a lot of indignant resistance, with a lot of people saying there's nothing wrong with it. I'd argue those people are being a bit short-sighted: it's definitely a bad sign IMO
 

VanDeBank

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Put yourselves in ETH's shoes. He's probably working with the scouts that recommended Maguire, AWB, Telles and Donny Brooks. I'm sure he has looked at their recommendations (such as Pau Torres?) and decided against it. His hill to die on.

Given that he had some power over signings at Ajax, it seems he has a decent scouting eye, unlike LVG who had proven his incompetence in that department.
 

sullydnl

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I guess the question is what should we be doing in a context where our Chief Scout and Head of Global Scouting left a few weeks before the window opened? Trust the work on identifying targets that had already been done despite reservations we might have about the set-up? Or lean more on the manager for his first transfer window? Clearly the desired scouting system isn't in place, thus the overhaul, so for this summer where do we err?

Personally I'm fine with the players we appear to be targeting thus far, with the possible exception of Brobbey if that proves to be more than rumour. They're all players we should be considering anyway given that even if ETH had no say in the targets we'd still be looking for players who fit an ETH side. But it's certainly the case that we need to get our scouting set-up sorted.

It's nothing we don't already know but the slew of departures at the end of the season wasn't exactly brilliant prep for this window.
 

Tavern in the town

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Put yourselves in ETH's shoes. He's probably working with the scouts that recommended Maguire, AWB, Telles and Donny Brooks. I'm sure he has looked at their recommendations (such as Pau Torres?) and decided against it. His hill to die on.

Given that he had some power over signings at Ajax, it seems he has a decent scouting eye, unlike LVG who had proven his incompetence in that department.
I’m pretty sure most of Ajax’s good signings were Overmars. Ten Hag’s choices like Labyad and Klaiber tended to be a bit shit.
 

Vapor trail

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I definitely agree with some of the sentiments this approach has failed under most managers. I do like ETH and genuinely anticipate much improvement but if this is the strategy moving forward it's certainly a big risk. Hopefully with the passing of time more of the scouting infrastructure is established and that many future recommendations can be integrated into the first team
 

Yakuza_devils

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LVG 250mil, Jose 350mil & Ole 500mil. And yet we need a rebuild every year.

Without real change of football structure I don't think we will go far unless we are very lucky with ETH who may have similar effect to SAF or Klopp.
 

Escobar

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It's definitely worrying as Ole spent almost 500mil and look at our squad now.

Hope our so called new football structure can catch up fast with the rest of top club in Europe.

For now, we only can hope ETH knows what he is doing.
Hige difference. Ole has always been shit, EtH built up great teams. So it is right to trust him
 

Gentleman Jim

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Really am not on the wind up here but am very confused on this subject.
From time to time I read that United have poached a top scout from XYZ club who has a long track record of success, then I hear Duncan Castles state that United have the largest scouting network in the football world.
I also remember United being linked with many players who've gone on to excel elsewhere in the recent past.
It seems to me that the problem is maybe not that the scouts themselves are useless but that their recommendations are not acted upon.
Quite possibly the recent changes at the top at United may bring better results in the near future? More execs with a football rather than corporate knowledge.
We'll see.
 

Revaulx

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It’s a shame that Arnold and Murtough didn’t put their heads together as soon as it was known that Woodward was off and hatch some sort of plan of campaign to set into motion the moment he was gone. Preferably one that had new recruitment people already targeted.

Maybe things aren’t that simple?
 

yumtum

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Said this all summer, it isn't about the lack of signings, it's the lack of forward planning.

I remember when LvG took over and we were linked to half the Dutch squad, even Ron fecking Vlaar, and it was ridiculed by everyone, not sure what's changed with this manager.

I also see a lot of posters saying "well who would you have the club sign?" - if any old fan could pick a player then why the hell do top clubs pay top money for scouts etc when fans could do the same job?

Either way, Ten Hag would have been my choice of manager, so I hope he works out, but if he doesn't we're back to square one again.
 

TheReligion

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It’s a shame that Arnold and Murtough didn’t put their heads together as soon as it was known that Woodward was off and hatch some sort of plan of campaign to set into motion the moment he was gone. Preferably one that had new recruitment people already targeted.

Maybe things aren’t that simple?
Yes I was thinking this. I think we’ve been good and quite decisive in our moves with the backroom and in letting players go etc. I think we are judging the window early though and should sit tight.

When you look we do have clear targets we are working towards and there’s an obvious plan. Just chipping away. Don’t think it can be judged until the close of play. Look at Chelsea in comparison and they are having a mare.
 

BarryWinks

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This is the reason I never buy into the 'United don't back the manager" nonsense.

Every manager we've had since Fergie, with the exception of Ole, has signed one or two players who have played under them in the past. Players we normally wouldn't have signed. LVG was obsessed with his dutch core so much we were linked to the likes of Martins-Indi, Jose wanted and got Ibra and Matic. Then there are those they targeted at their previous clubs or were known to admire e.g. Mata with Moyes, Mhiki, Bailey with Jose and Maguire, Sancho and Ronaldo with Ole.

Doesn't take much to realize that managers still get a very huge say in who the club signs, infact I'd wager our scouting teams get overuled more often than not because the club wants to be give the manager the ultimate power.

Now that in itself is not a bad thing, but given our managers have sort of averaged two years, and we are not consistent with the caliber of manager we hire, this approach is both costly and unsustainable because we will always be in a state of 'rebuild' as each new manager comes, asks for new players for a different play style and considers the current ones deadwood.
 
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VanDeBank

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I’m pretty sure most of Ajax’s good signings were Overmars. Ten Hag’s choices like Labyad and Klaiber tended to be a bit shit.
You're being disingenuous here.
Klaiber was signed as a cheap squad player for a small fee.
Why not mention Haller? You're decision to label the good signings as coming from Overmars is arbitrary.

Malacia was on Ajax's radar a year ago before his rapid development and first NT call up. It seems likely this was ETH's suggestion.

I don't know why you're assuming ETH didn't have a say/look at all their Latin successes.
 

RedRonaldo

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It could go right but I agree with you. I have no idea what our 'football structure' does.

If the worst happens and Ten Hag doesn't work out, I would not be confident that Murtough knows what the next move is.

Has Murtough worked out in his head what happens with all these Ajax players. Has he lined up a coach in his head who can come in and use them to the best of their abilities?

Or is just going to be 180 get in a coach and see who they want?

A Director of Football is meant to have a handle on this stuff. They're meant to be the one leading not being led. Looks as backward as ever.

I know for a fact that if Pep quit tomorrow City would just go out and get another Barcelona/Tiki Taka manager to suit their squad. With Murtough I wouldn't be surprised if we went off and threw a truckload of cash at Diego Simeone and said turn all these Ajax 4-3-3 graduates into a dogged 4-4-2 countering side. There's no plan.
If the Ten Hag project fails, I think we are finally done as top football club. It will take us decades to go back to top again.
But I think we should be patient with Ten Hag, give him at least 3-4 years of full backing before judging him. I don't really care if we fail to finish top 4 again next season, I don't expect we could. He took over a complete mess, it would take at least a few years to get back on track again.
 

Yakuza_devils

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Really am not on the wind up here but am very confused on this subject.
From time to time I read that United have poached a top scout from XYZ club who has a long track record of success, then I hear Duncan Castles state that United have the largest scouting network in the football world.
I also remember United being linked with many players who've gone on to excel elsewhere in the recent past.
It seems to me that the problem is maybe not that the scouts themselves are useless but that their recommendations are not acted upon.
Quite possibly the recent changes at the top at United may bring better results in the near future? More execs with a football rather than corporate knowledge.
We'll see.
In Jan this year, Rangnick asked for a striker. Our scouting department can't name a striker. Rangnick name at least 3 and all of them got signed up by major clubs soon after.
 

RVN1991

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It really is a joke that every player we are in for is either connected to Ajax or Dutch. What the heck are our scouts/management doing? EtH has never managed in a big league, giving him so much free reign is a recipe for disaster imo. Remember when Moyesy wanted to sign his ex Everton players .. always a worrying sign.
Agreed, I'd like to think that maybe we've been rejected by our main targets due to lack of CL football but even then panic buying players from the eredivisie as our strategy is worrying and points to us again not having a coherent transfer strategy.
 

#07

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If the Ten Hag project fails, I think we are finally done as top football club. It will take us decades to go back to top again.
But I think we should be patient with Ten Hag, give him at least 3-4 years of full backing before judging him. I don't really care if we fail to finish top 4 again next season, I don't expect we could. He took over a complete mess, it would take at least a few years to get back on track again.
I wish I believe United worked in a way that Ten Hag would get time to build for the future.

I imagine, if Pochettino is out of a job by Christmas and its all going to hell in a handbasket, we'll start getting briefs about how 'United acknowledge it was a mistake to go for a manager without big league experience' and 'there is belief within the club that Pochettino could turn things around with players who finished 2nd just a couple of seasons ago.'
 

Revaulx

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Yes I was thinking this. I think we’ve been good and quite decisive in our moves with the backroom and in letting players go etc. I think we are judging the window early though and should sit tight.

When you look we do have clear targets we are working towards and there’s an obvious plan. Just chipping away. Don’t think it can be judged until the close of play. Look at Chelsea in comparison and they are having a mare.
Yup. I’m much more inclined to start being critical if nothing’s in place by the next window.
 

Revaulx

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I wish I believe United worked in a way that Ten Hag would get time to build for the future.

I imagine, if Pochettino is out of a job by Christmas and its all going to hell in a handbasket, we'll start getting briefs about how 'United acknowledge it was a mistake to go for a manager without big league experience' and 'there is belief within the club that Pochettino could turn things around with players who finished 2nd just a couple of seasons ago.'
IF ten Hag fails, I’d be very surprised if Murtough isn’t replaced as well.

The catalyst for the change that (we all hope) is taking place is Richard Arnold. He seems to be a proper CEO who has the club’s best interests in mind and won’t be afraid to take big decisions.