United and Liverpool driving "Project Big Picture" - Football’s biggest shake-up in a generation

[Samid]

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[Samid]

• £100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women’s game, the grassroots
• 8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and “good causes” including the FA
• From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs
• Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat
• New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league
• The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield
• 24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90
• A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA
• Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.
• Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts
• A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity
• Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament
• Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Some very good changes pitched there. I particularly like the extended relegation playoffs.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Interesting as this looks like it will affect the bottom line.

whether these proposals are real or not, now is a good time to re-evaluate the game as many other businesses have done.

 

[duffer]

My spider senses are tingling at this. All seems too good to be something proposed by the likes of Man United and Liverpool.

 

[neilv93]

• The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield
• 24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90

League Cup is just pointless nowadays IMO, it's an unnecessary additional competition that adds games to an already-packed schedule. France sacked theirs off, I don't think Italy, Spain or Germany have one either so just us. I'd welcome it's abolishment. As for the Community Shield, I don't mind it because it's effectively a Super Cup-esque season-opener but wouldn't lose sleep if it was eradicated too.

Not sure I understand the maths between the second point of note, there are already 24 teams in those three divisions so how does that lower the overall total of pro clubs in the English league system?

 

[Mickeza]

My spider senses are tingling at this. All seems too good to be something proposed by the likes of Man United and Liverpool.

I suspect Premier league FFP and the redistribution of the TV money will be the carrot for the traditional big clubs.

 

[acnumber9]

Some decent suggestions along with some self serving ones. Increasing the number of loans just allows bigger clubs to stockpile more players so should never be allowed.

 

[Hulksmash]

Sounds horrible and blatant power Move from American Owners to get control over the Premier league using the Pandemic.

 

[Damien]

League Cup is just pointless nowadays IMO, it's an unnecessary additional competition that adds games to an already-packed schedule. France sacked theirs off, I don't think Italy, Spain or Germany have one either so just us. I'd welcome it's abolishment. As for the Community Shield, I don't mind it because it's effectively a Super Cup-esque season-opener but wouldn't lose sleep if it was eradicated too.

Not sure I understand the maths between the second point of note, there are already 24 teams in those three divisions so how does that lower the overall total of pro clubs in the English league system?

Premier League would be reduced to 18.

 

[Flanders Devil]

How’s does this bit work??

• Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.

 

[patty123]

Wow what perfect timing, given they are two of the clubs that oppose the extra live matches being free for season ticket holders, a move that will see fans pay an extra 15 pounds rather than being put on free view tv.

 

[Ubik]

How’s does this bit work??

• Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.

18 team prem, 16th place has a first round against 5th in Championship, winner of that plays winner of 3rd v 4th for promotion.

If clubs need to give the okay to this I can't see it getting anywhere.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

My spider senses are tingling at this. All seems too good to be something proposed by the likes of Man United and Liverpool.

Are they tingling due to the access to the club accounts? There is very little chance that Roman is clean.

 

[VorZakone]

Every 5 years a summer tournament involving PL clubs? What a BS proposal.

 

[neilv93]

Premier League would be reduced to 18.

Gotcha, thanks. Again, 18 teams would be better IMO - less games over the season in a crowded enough schedule as it is.

 

[padr81]

How’s does this bit work??

• Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.

Simple really removing the 6 place championship team from the PlayOffs and adding Prem's 16th place. So likely fixtures like

PL 16th vs Champ 5th
Champ 3rd vs Champ 4th
Final - Winner in the PL following season.

 

[fps]

Don’t mistake reducing the number of official games for concern over player welfare, they’ll use these breaks to go to Malaysia or Mumbai or wherever someone will pay them for a friendly.

I’d like the league cup with a limit on the number of over, say, 23s, non homegrown players allowed on a team.

 

[duffer]

Are they tingling due to the access to the club accounts? There is very little chance that Roman is clean.

The Chelsea club accounts will be cleaner than a whistle. The idea that the Premier League will ever get a peek at Roman Abramovic's personal accounts is pretty ridiculous.

My spider sense is tingling more at the idea of huge clubs doing something that may end up costing them huge sums of money.

 

[Cloud7]

On paper a lot of these seem like good moves. However, none of these football clubs, especially not our own or Liverpool, are altruistic in any way, which leads me to think that these suggestions are sketchy if you look beneath the surface, where you'll find that this is all being done to make them more money in some way.

 

[Damien]

My spider senses are tingling at this. All seems too good to be something proposed by the likes of Man United and Liverpool.

Most controversial part is this, which Samid left out:

The proposals also rewrite the Premier League’s 20-club democracy in favour of placing huge power in the hands of the nine clubs with the longest continual stay in the division. As things stand that is the big six, as well as Everton, Southampton and West Ham. Those nine clubs afforded “long-term shareholder status” would have unprecedented power, with the votes of just six of them required to make sweeping changes. These clubs would even be able to veto a new owner taking over a rival club.

 

[duffer]

Most controversial part is this, which Samid left out:

Yuk. No thanks.

I'd personally prefer a system where all 92 clubs get an equal say in the big decisions, regardless of which league they are in at the time.

 

[neilv93]

Most controversial part is this:

Definitely controversial but I think the one-club, one-vote system is slightly flawed. Other than being in the league every other year, why should Fulham or WBA have the same voting rights as Utd or Liverpool? I think a three or five-year continuous stay in the top-flight before qualifying for a vote is reasonable.

Edit: I'm not saying their vote doesn't matter btw, just that I don't believe they should be able to vote on changes to the landscape of the PREMIER LEAGUE without having a long-standing membership. But that's not how democracy works I guess.

 

[padr81]

Most controversial part is this, which Samid left out:

That seems pretty rotten. Also I'm actually surprised City are in the 9. That one is def not fair.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

The Chelsea club accounts will be cleaner than a whistle. The idea that the Premier League will ever get a peek at Roman Abramovic's personal accounts is pretty ridiculous.

My spider sense is tingling more at the idea of huge clubs doing something that may end up costing them huge sums of money.

Not at his personal account of course. But like Trump uses his towers for laundering money, I wonder whether Roman would be doing something similar. To be fair he seems very smart and is unlikely to muddy something he enjoys.

 

[Bastian]

My spider senses are tingling at this. All seems too good to be something proposed by the likes of Man United and Liverpool.

Haha.

I think most look fairly decent. Not sure about the last two, the summer Premier League tournament sounds terrible, and the ability to have 15 players out on loan seems to promote what your lot have been doing for years.

 

[Samid]

Most controversial part is this, which Samid left out:

I copied the summary from the r/soccer post, haven't read the article yet.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Most controversial part is this, which Samid left out:

I guess neither City or Chelsea would have happened if this was in place before Roman:

"The proposals also rewrite the Premier League’s 20-club democracy in favour of placing huge power in the hands of the nine clubs with the longest continual stay in the division. As things stand that is the big six, as well as Everton, Southampton and West Ham. Those nine clubs afforded “long-term shareholder status” would have unprecedented power, with the votes of just six of them required to make sweeping changes. These clubs would even be able to veto a new owner taking over a rival club."

Manchester United would have been like Bayern Munich and the league would have been like the Bundesliga.

 

[The Cat]

No club expecting to finish between mid table and the bottom would vote to reduce the numbers would they?

 

[Harry190]

The Chelsea club accounts will be cleaner than a whistle. The idea that the Premier League will ever get a peek at Roman Abramovic's personal accounts is pretty ridiculous.

My spider sense is tingling more at the idea of huge clubs doing something that may end up costing them huge sums of money.

United and Liverpool have always sacrificed their potential benefits for the sake of the league. Always and since the beginning of the league. If it were anything like La Liga, the other 16 clubs bar Arsenal would feed off scraps.

 

[Cloud7]

Most controversial part is this, which Samid left out:

And there we go. Shell out a bit of money to basically turn the league into an oligarchy.

 

[Skills]

Sounds shit tbh

 

[Cloud7]

United and Liverpool have always sacrificed their potential benefits for the sake of the league. Always and since the beginning of the league. If it were anything like La Liga, the other 16 clubs bar Arsenal would feed off scraps.

And that is one of the reasons why the PL is great, because it's not a glorified orgy where all the clubs exist to serve the whims of the top two clubs.

 

[JB08]

The league cup would be good if it didn’t feature teams in Europe. Would give the likes of Everton, Wolves and us a decent chance to win silverware.

 

[RedSky]

Don’t mistake reducing the number of official games for concern over player welfare, they’ll use these breaks to go to Malaysia or Mumbai or wherever someone will pay them for a friendly.

I’d like the league cup with a limit on the number of over, say, 23s, non homegrown players allowed on a team.

That isn't feasible for smaller clubs in the lower leagues.

 

[RedSky]

Some of those suggestions are very important for English football survival, some are dodgy as feck. Trim out the majority of the dodgy ones and it'd be excellent.

 

[Mickeza]

United and Liverpool have always sacrificed their potential benefits for the sake of the league. Always and since the beginning of the league. If it were anything like La Liga, the other 16 clubs bar Arsenal would feed off scraps.

Exactly, which is why the failure to enforce FFP is a huge issue. If state run clubs can spend whatever they wish and are unbound by economic realities why should United and Liverpool share the TV revenue when they could earn far more money going it alone allowing them to compete better with such clubs?

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Denied.

 

[Skills]

• 8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and “good causes” including the FA
• From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs

Both of these sound bullshit to me - especially as the lower league clubs aren't under as much scrutiny and dodgy owners will use it to line up their own back pockets.

They need to make sure all the accounts of the lower league teams are open. Their wages and any fees they pay are also capped, and then the ones who can't make it should be supported by the PL pot.

 

[horsechoker]

The name was definitely Woodward's idea

• £100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women’s game, the grassroots

Seems good

• 8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and “good causes” including the FA

I like it

• From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs

Also good

• Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat

Maybe we can sort out Old Trafford now

• New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league

I'd have to know more about it but the performance thing sounds good

• The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield

League Cup can go but I think the Community Shield is fine.

• 24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90

I don't know if it will make a big difference but I'm an advocate of reducing the number of PL teams

• A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA

If it improves the women's game I'm for it

• Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.

Shouldn't it be the 17th place team? I'd imagine that the advantage could be with Championship teams as they'd better in better form compared to a side which loses regularly

• Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts

BREXIT MEANS BREXIT

• A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity

Excellent!

• Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament

I'd need more details but I'm not wow'd by the idea

• Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England

Chelsea'll love this