from the way we are playing, it appears the glazers havent bothered with any software for these nerds to use and theyre using MS Paint to plot our stats and work out our tactics with.
United appoint Dominic Jordan as director of data science
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
To be fair, I have heard stories about MLB and NFL head coaches that have access to the best sport scientists and flat out refuse to use them. Mike Zimmer being one of them which is kind of tragic, an example for that was clock and downs management, it is known that they have tried everything to convince him that he statistically wrong, providing actual data and he still refuses to listen.
I’m 9 pages late on this topic.
Is this guy the ex-boss of LFC’s Mike Edwards?
Is this guy the ex-boss of LFC’s Mike Edwards?
Dominic Jordan only joined United last month since being appointed last year. It wouldn't surprise me if he along with the new deputy DoF will be the replacements for Bout/Lawlor. That would place heavy focus on data analytics with Mick Court also a number cruncher.
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I think it's the best time to apply for a job at United.
Brentford of the North?
I think it'll potentially bring us in-line with other leading clubs who utilise data to back up the eye test. Brentford have definitely left us behind in that regard, and so have many other clubs, with Liverpool being a standout beneficiary.
Its good at least we are getting more of a laser focus on restructuring. I think under the Woodward regime he wasn't so much a manager but a financial focused guy.
I have worked in a few MNCs, 50-100 times larger (in terms of revenues) than United's -- you get some very marketing led CEOs, some technical/innovation-led.
But unfortunately, nowadays we have the Wall Street/City/Shareholder value-driven CEOs who don't care how things are done as long as the numbers are met/exceeded every quarter -- these guys eventually hollow out the organisation. Plus he has spent 1billion quid with less to show for it.
Lets see what Arnold's approach is. But initial impressions are that its a proper manager's management approach.
I agree mate.
And if I thought there was no hope of recovery, then I would've stopped posting on here a long time ago.
I am doing a Bachelor of Science majoring in Statistics. Hopefully the club are looking for people in 2 years when I graduate
Tbf I thought Fergie was a fraud the first couple of years. Lots of big buys like Big Ron and not much to show. So I will always live in eternal hope.
Its will be down to AI and algorithms mate. Hope you will be good at that too.
I'm in a similar boat - maybe we could co-ordinate something and try to get in there
As long as you are prepared for the “what does Ole’sattheWheel actually do?” Threads
Hahaha yeah. It'd probably be super depressing if my day job was analysing how shit we are every game
If anybody watched us being pathetic with Liverpool, yesterday, and thinks a "director of data science" is going to fix what was going on on that pitch - I envy your optimism.
Just my 2c
Just my 2c
The only science we need is sci-fi.
Lasers on stun!
Lasers on stun!
Why would anybody think that one person in that role is going to fix everything? It's one step towards a system that will (hopefully) improve things.
We already have a huge team of data analysts for games, have done for a year or two, in fact Ole was someone who championed growing that side of things.
This looks like we are using this data for transfers now as well, which promises a cohesive plan moving forward.
This looks like we are using this data for transfers now as well, which promises a cohesive plan moving forward.
Nobody thinks that. But surely it would be a step in the right direction to actually start making data-driven decisions?
We talk about "types" of players, and in addition to watching players live, we need substantiate that in order to identify as accurately as possible, the right types of players with concrete data, but also predictive analytics. We're already seeing the benefits with others, so it would be an exercise in extreme folly to close our eyes to it.
RR rightly mentioned that there are players that have a can do, hard working mentality, with good engines to boot embedded in their DNA, and he's not wrong e.g. Fred for instance. He may not technically at the level of some of our other players, but just seems to be wired to always give 100% regardless of whatever drama is unfolding around him, and has the engine to do so.
Obviously the challenge is to find such players (if we do want to play a high intensity game on the front foot, that is) who also have the required technical ability for make things happen at this level, and data/data science is a massive enabler of that.
Its not about any one match. Its about building the structure of the club. The underlying recruitment and training strategy should be based on data driven decisions. It might help us buy the right player for the right money, get tactics right in games, assess player performance and strengths/weaknesses etc.
Maybe we could strike up a decent rivalry with QPR?
Funny you should mention that given the data guy running Liverpool is such a large part of the reason they wiped the floor with the unorganised mess.
Was gonna post this, funny match/club to compare to considering they are run with moneyball science.
Klopp is obviously still the single biggest reason, but being able to provide the manager and recruitment teams with huge data on players that suit the requirements for the manager’s system is very important.
I can do the data: it shows we are absolute shite and that the board needs to be sacked
Thought this was a Game of Thrones pun before reading the rest of the page.
I don't see what's wrong with Moneyball Science, it works. And as much as we wanna be smart arse about knowing football the number seldom lies, 99% it shows what it shows.
I'd believe computer rather than human eyes, hell we can't even agree if Maguire is shit or he's not shit by the amount of people defending him.
I'd believe computer rather than human eyes, hell we can't even agree if Maguire is shit or he's not shit by the amount of people defending him.
the only problem with data/moneyball/whatever you want to call it is that we are so late to the party. So many clubs will be mining the same resource using the same parameters and have been doing so for longer than us. The only thing we have to our advantage once it eventually smooths out is that we have a lot of money and can keep taking risks other clubs couldn’t afford to. But that brings us back to never selling players well? The whole organisation and financial ethos of the club will need to change
There's people still defending him? Incredible!
Don't think most have a problem with Sports Science and analytics, they're widely regarded as essential to modern sports. Not sure what you mean by the bolded part. its what you do with data, why and what you're looking for it etc.
The doubts that are justified imo, are that we seem to be recruiting into these positions and it feels like a tick box exercise to show we are being more seriously run, rather than part of an overarching strategy where the club know exactly what we are looking for and for what reasons. For example I'd guess there are Sports Scientists of varying abilities and suiting different styles and desired outcomes etc.
We are so fortunate to have such insightful posters around here
Other (successful) clubs have been doing this stuff for years. Madness (but believeable) that it sounds like we're only just starting out.
A 2019 article on Liverpool:
A 2019 article on Liverpool:
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I think what most people who haven't worked in analytics & who go by moneyball etc don't get is that it takes time for things to payoff, sometimes several years. Just setting up the structure for reliable collection of data is an insanely hectic process. Then comes building a model, executing, feedback etc. We haven't had a systematic structure in place before this, so I'd expect this to take at least 2-3 years before any result can be seen/judged. Another factor is that analytical solutions aid & do not replace business judgement & intuition - so most key policy decisions will still be made by Murtough/Rangnick/Fletcher/ETH & this is the side we need to most focus on.
There’s no problem with data when it’s used in the right hands. Hell, for recruitment it probably is your best way of working out who offers the greatest blend of attributes that you want.
I assume that most people who are averse to the modern methods like the copious amounts of numbers and their interpretations are more a result of seeing people use data wrong (see Alan Shearer and Martin Keown discussing xG as some holy grail and not just a single cog in a massive machine) and assuming it’s all like that. The very best data analysts and scientists can be absolutely magnificent and produce incredible results
The company I work for does it for the NFL, the data we get is unreal.
We can even tell you how meny times the ball spins in a air via a throw or how hard a hit was.
I find it nuts we don't already do this in training.
I could build a solution in a few months
We can even tell you how meny times the ball spins in a air via a throw or how hard a hit was.
I find it nuts we don't already do this in training.
I could build a solution in a few months
Agreed. Just tailor your CV with futuristic/Sport Tech weighted claims and you'll be in the dugout in no time.
Boeing
and lead with “i lost all my hair when i was 13.”
Gosh that’s harsh! He took us to second in his first full season, which gave some of us hope that he knew what he was doing. The two seasons after that were the ones where the doubts crept in, though the odd random great performance helped keep the faith.