United, football, mental health, and yet another United thread...

Mr Pigeon

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This is a public service announcement to some users who can't do anything other than make glib posts about how this and that are "useless" or "lazy". I noticed it a lot tonight regarding Rashford, as many people let out their frustrations. There's a lot of decent comments on this forum but to be honest after reading some of the things in the match thread ("he's a brainless idiot", "he's a diva" etc) I'm not surprised Rashford's head isn't in the right place.

He's suddenly gone from being the golden boy at United, lauded for his off field activities, into the center for a whole list of insults (not to mention the disgusting shite he had to put up with after the Euros).

Do you know what's wrong with him? He's probably mentally fecked or depressed. We actually NEED players like him at the club - United lads who actually have some interest putting our jersey on. Is he monumentally shite at the moment? Without a doubt. He needs hauled off and actually coached through his problems. But the same applies to most of the team.

And before anyone comes in and says "well, he should just toughen up. He's paid loads". Feck. You. It's easy to say when your every waking action isn't dissected, and you're in front of 70,000+ playing like shite for a team that have zero fire. A stiff upper lip only goes so far. If I see one more lazy comment that doesn't actually say anything else other than "he's downed tools" or "has no respect for the badge" I'll unshackle Damo and give his primary weapons systems an extra 2 amps to play with. Anyone who has worked or lived in an environment where everything seems to always go wrong knows that you don't just snap out of that attitude overnight, especially when things continue to go wrong.

The players are mentally weak, but they've been shite for ages. Of course they're mentally weak. Even Sir Alex, the master of the hairdryer treatment, knew when to put an arm around his players. His teams weren't just technically sound - they had drive and determination and ran through walls until the last minute. And if you want players that are emotional like that, it swings both ways. Treat them like shit when they're at their weakest and they'll just crumble.

I know it's frustrating. It's been frustrating for years! And the players are shite. But don't mistake it for not giving a shit - they're just clueless, and need a kick up the arse but not ones that resort to hurling insults.

Why does any of this matter? Analysis of why we're playing poorly is important, and it's the core of this forum. But the childish moaning doesn't do anything other than fuel further moaning. And eventually that feeds into the larger media narrative as a whole, and the atmosphere in the stadium.

Anyway, feel free to call me a cnut. Oates does it twice a day.
 
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Ayoba

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I'd add Maguire to your list. The amount of vitriol he gets, yet he's never said anything against the club. I guess it's his fault he cost 80m
 

Lecland07

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The reason why people are saying he looks lazy is because he does look lazy. He looks completely disinterested. We can't excuse every problem due to mental health.

Perhaps he is not dealing with any mental health issue? You are assuming he is, but it might be nothing other than him becoming disinterested. There is more evidence for the latter than the former.

You can't comment on things you do not know about. People comment on what they see.
 

TheReligion

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The reason why people are saying he looks lazy is because he does look lazy. He looks completely disinterested. We can't excuse every problem due to mental health.

Perhaps he is not dealing with any mental health issue? You are assuming he is, but it might be nothing other than him becoming disinterested.

You can't comment on things you do not know about. Everyone deals with mental health issues, but you have to get on with it at one point.
Spoken like someone who has never suffered with a mental health issue
 

2 man midfield

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I said in the match day thread that I’m genuinely curious as to his mental health. He doesn’t seem with it at all.

If he is suffering though he shouldn’t be near the team. If he can’t do the basics like closing down a loose ball then the management need to take him aside and find out why.
 

OL29

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The abuse is well ott and I could never condone it but it makes me laugh how these threads only pop up for certain players. Pogba, amongst others has been relentlessly abused by our fanbase for years with little regard for his mental health, Martial too yet I don’t see them defended as vehemently.
 

Withnail

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This is a public service announcement to some users who can't do anything other than make glib posts about how this and that are "useless" or "lazy". I noticed it a lot tonight regarding Rashford, as many people let out their frustrations. There's a lot of decent comments on this forum but to be honest after reading some of the things in the match thread ("he's a brainless idiot", "he's a diva" etc) I'm not surprised Rashford's head isn't in the right place.

He's suddenly gone from being the golden boy at United, lauded for his off field activities, into the center for a whole list of insults (not to mention the disgusting shite he had to put up with after the Euros).

Do you know what's wrong with him? He's probably mentally fecked or depressed. We actually NEED players like him at the club - United lads who actually have some interest putting our jersey on. Is he monumentally shite at the moment? Without a doubt. He needs hauled off and actually coached through his problems. But the same applies to most of the team.

And before anyone comes in and says "well, he should just toughen up. He's paid loads". Feck. You. It's easy to say when your every waking action isn't dissected, and you're in front of 70,000+ playing like shite for a team that have zero fire. A stiff upper lip only goes so far. If I see one more lazy comment that doesn't actually say anything else other than "he's downed tools" or "has no respect for the badge" I'll unshackle Damo and give his primary weapons systems an extra 2 amps to play with. Anyone who has worked or lived in an environment where everything seems to always go wrong knows that you don't just snap out of that attitude overnight, especially when things continue to go wrong.

The players are mentally weak, but they've been shite for ages. Of course they're mentally weak. Even Sir Alex, the master of the hairdryer treatment, knew when to put an arm around his players. His teams weren't just technically sound - they had drive and determination and ran through walls until the last minute. And if you want players that are emotional like that, it swings both ways. Treat them like shit when they're at their weakest and they'll just crumble.

I know it's frustrating. It's been frustrating for years! And the players are shite. But don't mistake it for not giving a shit - they're just clueless, and need a kick up the arse but not ones that resort to hurling insults.

Why does any of this matter? Analysis of why we're playing poorly is important, and it's the core of this forum. But the childish moaning doesn't do anything other than fuel further moaning. And eventually that feeds into the larger media narrative as a whole, and the atmosphere in the stadium.

Anyway, feel free to call me a cnut. Oates does it twice a day.
Well said mate!
 

Judge Red

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Seeing a player turn his back on the chance of a tap in is as sad as it is aggravating. He’s broken and that was the most pitiful image of a very bad time.

Alan Shearer said in the BBC studio that we don’t know what’s going on in his personal life. It made me wonder if Shearer and others do know but this is way beyond bad form.
 

Rightnr

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Hm, yet another example of selective forum rules for me but not for thee. Where were these threads for Martial?

Amazing double standards.
 

Mr Pigeon

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The abuse is well ott and I could never condone it but it makes me laugh how these threads only pop up for certain players. Pogba, amongst others has been relentlessly abused by our fanbase for years with little regard for his mental health, Martial too yet I don’t see them defended as vehemently.
Hm, yet another example of selective forum rules for me but not for thee. Where were these threads for Martial?

Amazing double standards.
I'm defending all of them - said as much in the OP (in fact I said EXACTLY that). The trigger for the thread was a couple of Rashford comments that I saw in quick succession.
 

Dan_F

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The abuse is well ott and I could never condone it but it makes me laugh how these threads only pop up for certain players. Pogba, amongst others has been relentlessly abused by our fanbase for years with little regard for his mental health, Martial too yet I don’t see them defended as vehemently.
Good one, turn it on the people criticising the abuse, rather than those doing the abusing.
 

Withnail

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Hm, yet another example of selective forum rules for me but not for thee. Where were these threads for Martial?

Amazing double standards.
Why don't you just say what you want to say, instead of the whataboutery?

My reading of the Op was that @Mr Pigeon was making a general point and using Rashford as an example so I don't think your point stands.
 

Dinghy

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It's the curse of (sometimes) having a shit touch. People on the internet don't like that.
 

Rightnr

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I'm defending all of them - said as much in the OP (in fact I said EXACTLY that). The trigger for the thread was a couple of Rashford comments that I saw in quick succession.
Sorry if I'm cynical but no one was making these threads when Martial was getting this abuse since day one from media, this forum and so on and so forth.

And anyway, if he's not right, he should make himself unavailable. At some point, he needs to take the responsibility of his performances and mental health.
 

Berbasbullet

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Yeah this needed to be fair. Rashford is one of our own and if we could maybe support the boy during a difficult time I bet it’d mean the world.
 

TMDaines

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The saddest thing is that there is a very vocal minority in the Stretford End who absolutely rip into him and seemingly have less patience for him because of his altruism.

One gammon at the Wolves match was screaming that Rashford had turned into a complete cnut during lockdown. I mean, how misguided do you want to be? When people are piling on Rashford, think about who you are allying with. There should be no player for whom we have greater hope to turn it around given all he has done for the less fortunate, as well as carrying United at times whilst managing multiple injuries.

Rangnick feels like the kind of manager to understand the importance of a player’s mental health, so I hope we can get him firing again.
 

Someone

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I agree that a lot of our current players seem to be mentally shot and depressed while playing. Which in turn stops them from playing well and they end up in a vicious cycle they can't get out of. But the reality is that playing for a club like united will always bring this kind of pressure, and it happens at the top level for everyone. Usually you'd have some mentally strong players and leaders within the team to those players up and help them recover, but right now it seems that most of our players need help themselves and nobody is there to help. Our captain was the first to crumble this season, and we have no leaders at all.
 

Lewnited

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Hm, yet another example of selective forum rules for me but not for thee. Where were these threads for Martial?

Amazing double standards.
This grates on me too if I'm totally honest. Don't think @Mr Pigeon was necessarily doing this but I don't like it at all.
 

Rightnr

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Why don't you just say what you want to say, instead of the whataboutery?

My reading of the Op was that @Mr Pigeon was making a general point and using Rashford as an example so I don't think your point stands.
What else do I need to say? I've said it with regard to the previous manager and I've said it here.

If there's one thing people cannot accuse me of is holding back.
 

arnie_ni

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He's absolutely disinterested and there could be an underlying reason or it just could be his confidence is shot.

Either way he's needs pulled until is sorted.
 
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Red00012

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So we’ve gone from him been injured for 2 years to his girlfriend breaking up with him to mental health .... We’re running out of excuses guys......
 

Acquire Me

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Rashford is a red. The abuse his getting is sickening. I stand behind him. A good man and a good footballer.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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The saddest thing is that there is a very vocal minority in the Stretford End who absolutely rip into him and seemingly have less patience for him because of his altruism.

One gammon at the Wolves match was screaming that Rashford had turned into a complete cnut during lockdown. I mean, how misguided do you want to be? When people are piling on Rashford, think about who you are allying with. There should be no player for whom we have greater hope to turn it around given all he has done for the less fortunate, as well as carrying United at times whilst managing multiple injuries.

Rangnick feels like the kind of manager to understand the importance of a player’s mental health, so I hope we can get him firing again.
Managers who understand mental burnout should just use the squad and live with the results because the money cashing administrators aren’t going to bail anyone out.
 

T00lsh3d

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Yeah he needs to be out the firing line for a bit, first and foremost
 

Dan_F

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The saddest thing is that there is a very vocal minority in the Stretford End who absolutely rip into him and seemingly have less patience for him because of his altruism.

One gammon at the Wolves match was screaming that Rashford had turned into a complete cnut during lockdown. I mean, how misguided do you want to be? When people are piling on Rashford, think about who you are allying with. There should be no player for whom we have greater hope to turn it around given all he has done for the less fortunate, as well as carrying United at times whilst managing multiple injuries.

Rangnick feels like the kind of manager to understand the importance of a player’s mental health, so I hope we can get him firing again.
Sounds like you were stood near me. I definitely remember someone shouting at him to feck off and feed some children.
 

ThehatchetMan

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I don’t think you can escape your performances being critically analysed; it’s part and partial of the job. And to be honest many players aside from those you’ve listed have had much worse.

To be honest in regards to Rashfords performances, I think he’s been poor for a year or more now and if anything than fans have actually had rose tinted glasses on for a lot of that time and were very lenient.

Anyway I ageee that the club, fans and players should all be taking mental health into account. And if Rashfords mental health was suffering due to whatever reasons and the fans criticism contributed then I’d like to think he’d get an extended period out of the team and limelight to try and heal.

However with that said, his performances still need to be scrutinised in the same way as every other players performances are. Nevermind Rashford and Maguire, what about the criticism which AWB, Lindelof, Jones, Fred, Matic etc.. get to?

We can’t single out individuals being critiqued because of their personal circumstances. All players should be judged against the same standards.
 

BaneIsPain

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Sorry for him but if he doesn’t have the fight. Maybe it is time for another job.
 

Tom Cato

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The reason why people are saying he looks lazy is because he does look lazy. He looks completely disinterested. We can't excuse every problem due to mental health.

Perhaps he is not dealing with any mental health issue? You are assuming he is, but it might be nothing other than him becoming disinterested. There is more evidence for the latter than the former.

You can't comment on things you do not know about. People comment on what they see.
Absolutely every single person has some type of mental health isssue, be ut confidence related, sadness, insecurity or straight up dark depression. Just because someone says "Mental health issue" doesnt mean theyre in some dark desolate place. It can be something as simple as feeling overwhelmed or frustrated
 

TwoSheds

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Thought he had a decent first half but like all the attackers looked absolutely buggered by an hour in. What they're doing in training to look comatose after an hour is beyond me.