United, football, mental health, and yet another United thread...

Coops73

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Some of the abuse he gets on here is disgusting, it’s the same for Jones and the new punchbag Maguire.

We can all criticise performances and Rashfords have been really poor of late but the other stuff him and others get is disgusting and you see the worst of it in the match day thread.

I think Rashford needs taking out of the firing line for a bit and let’s hope this sports psychologist Sascha Lense can earn his corn not just for Rashford but for most of the team.
 

AndySmith1990

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Some of the abuse he gets on here is disgusting, it’s the same for Jones and the new punchbag Maguire.

We can all criticise performances and Rashfords have been really poor of late but the other stuff him and others get is disgusting and you see the worst of it in the match day thread.

I think Rashford needs taking out of the firing line for a bit and let’s hope this sports psychologist Sascha Lense can earn his corn not just for Rashford but for most of the team.
Can you post an example of this disgusting abuse please? I've not seen anything of that description tbh.

I'm aware hateful and vile abuse happens on twitter, which is why I don't use that platform, but overall I've found Redcafe to be quite fair and not overstep the mark when it comes to being critical.
 

Coops73

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Can you post an example of this disgusting abuse please? I've not seen anything of that description tbh.

I'm aware hateful and vile abuse happens on twitter, which is why I don't use that platform, but overall I've found Redcafe to be quite fair and not overstep the mark when it comes to being critical.
To be fair you’re right, generally the cafe is fairly measured (I don’t use twitter, so can’t compare) but you only have to spend five minutes in the match day thread to see a different animal, I’m not going to trawl through posts and dig people out because I know it gets emotional in there but I’ve read plenty in there and that’s why I tend to stay away from it.
 

Bennie Blanco

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Maybe we should just part ways. You need to have a really thick skin, to play for United. This boy clear does not have it.

Criticism is more than fine but to actually abuse him, calling him names is poor form. I don't know maybe Rashford needs a change of scenery, or maybe we just need to sell to the higest bidder.

Don't forget, he's done an amazing thing outside of football. That tells me he's genuinely a good lad, but we as a club have to be ruthless when needed. Otherwise we'll never get back to the top.

I hope he can turn it around, I really really do. Unfortunately, his time is running out. It could be that he needs some tough love.

It's actually frustrating for the fans that we rarely get any real clarity on such issues. A small statement is more than sufficient.
 
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devilish

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Let's say this mental issue thing is true. If it's the case then why does it effect his on the pitch performance but not his off the pitch performance? Why does it seem to effect all the team? I mean most of our players seems not to give a feck these days. If its down to coaching/management then how come it happened during Mou's, Ole's and Rangnick's administration? Are all these managers shit?

What I do believe is that we've got a huge number of players whose think that football is an afterthought and that they can get out with almost anything. All they have to do is turn up for a couple of matches per season and hire a decent PR teams whose specialised in apology statements. This thread kind of enforce that they might be right.
 

GueRed

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Some of the abuse he gets on here is disgusting, it’s the same for Jones and the new punchbag Maguire.

We can all criticise performances and Rashfords have been really poor of late but the other stuff him and others get is disgusting and you see the worst of it in the match day thread.

I think Rashford needs taking out of the firing line for a bit and let’s hope this sports psychologist Sascha Lense can earn his corn not just for Rashford but for most of the team.
English players in general are easy targets for the xenophobes/Anti-English brigade not just here but on the worldwide web.

For his sake I hope Rashford stays off social media for a while..
 

Seveneric

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If the player has a mental health issue, then I hope he comes out and says no (or is getting help behind the scenes), otherwise this just feels like pointless speculation and someone trying to find a reason/excuse their fave's poor form. I agree with the person who said speculating about mental health without any evidence as an explanation is actually insulting to people who are actually suffering from issues, especially the ones who aren't as fortunate to have access to the best help that Rashford has.

This just feels like another "stop thrashing our players" thread, which I 100% agree with, but wrapping it up in the guise of speculating about Rashford's mental health, of which nobody here has a clue about feels disingenuous.
 

sparx99

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This is a public service announcement to some users who can't do anything other than make glib posts about how this and that are "useless" or "lazy". I noticed it a lot tonight regarding Rashford, as many people let out their frustrations. There's a lot of decent comments on this forum but to be honest after reading some of the things in the match thread ("he's a brainless idiot", "he's a diva" etc) I'm not surprised Rashford's head isn't in the right place.

He's suddenly gone from being the golden boy at United, lauded for his off field activities, into the center for a whole list of insults (not to mention the disgusting shite he had to put up with after the Euros).

Do you know what's wrong with him? He's probably mentally fecked or depressed. We actually NEED players like him at the club - United lads who actually have some interest putting our jersey on. Is he monumentally shite at the moment? Without a doubt. He needs hauled off and actually coached through his problems. But the same applies to most of the team.

And before anyone comes in and says "well, he should just toughen up. He's paid loads". Feck. You. It's easy to say when your every waking action isn't dissected, and you're in front of 70,000+ playing like shite for a team that have zero fire. A stiff upper lip only goes so far. If I see one more lazy comment that doesn't actually say anything else other than "he's downed tools" or "has no respect for the badge" I'll unshackle Damo and give his primary weapons systems an extra 2 amps to play with. Anyone who has worked or lived in an environment where everything seems to always go wrong knows that you don't just snap out of that attitude overnight, especially when things continue to go wrong.

The players are mentally weak, but they've been shite for ages. Of course they're mentally weak. Even Sir Alex, the master of the hairdryer treatment, knew when to put an arm around his players. His teams weren't just technically sound - they had drive and determination and ran through walls until the last minute. And if you want players that are emotional like that, it swings both ways. Treat them like shit when they're at their weakest and they'll just crumble.

I know it's frustrating. It's been frustrating for years! And the players are shite. But don't mistake it for not giving a shit - they're just clueless, and need a kick up the arse but not ones that resort to hurling insults.

Why does any of this matter? Analysis of why we're playing poorly is important, and it's the core of this forum. But the childish moaning doesn't do anything other than fuel further moaning. And eventually that feeds into the larger media narrative as a whole, and the atmosphere in the stadium.

Anyway, feel free to call me a cnut. Oates does it twice a day.
I totally agree. It has made it all the more baffling that we’ve kept playing a number of them through it.

A young player without the baggage may just perform better than the more talented/more experienced player when the senior pro is struggling.

I don’t think we should play a team of kids but it’s been clear this season that Maguire and Shaw had a hangover from the Euros. Shaw has started to find his form I would argue.

Rashford has struggled mightily since coming back. Is that not having a pre-season? Distractions off the pitch? Pressure? Either way take him out of the limelight for a bit. Not to mention it would have helped keep another squad member happier by getting more minutes.

We do seem to have just ignored poor individual form and blamed the team structure. The team has been wrong in many ways but sometimes players need to be dropped for their own good as well.
 

Greck

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English players in general are easy targets for the xenophobes/Anti-English brigade not just here but on the worldwide web.

For his sake I hope Rashford stays off social media for a while..
Imo that's the blowback of the privilege they receive in the first place. The thread is an example, I never heard of diagnosing mental health issues from on-pitch body language. Fred, Ronaldo, Martial, Pogba have all received equal or more criticism. Some of them actually have it worse because the media joins in. The way Souness and Neville had a go at certain players was straight up shocking, you had Keane saying he'd punch De Gea in the face. Where was their anti-bullying campaign while they were playing garbage?
 

devilish

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I totally agree. It has made it all the more baffling that we’ve kept playing a number of them through it.

A young player without the baggage may just perform better than the more talented/more experienced player when the senior pro is struggling.

I don’t think we should play a team of kids but it’s been clear this season that Maguire and Shaw had a hangover from the Euros. Shaw has started to find his form I would argue.

Rashford has struggled mightily since coming back. Is that not having a pre-season? Distractions off the pitch? Pressure? Either way take him out of the limelight for a bit. Not to mention it would have helped keep another squad member happier by getting more minutes.

We do seem to have just ignored poor individual form and blamed the team structure. The team has been wrong in many ways but sometimes players need to be dropped for their own good as well.
We seem to be the only club who has a team filled with players who had a hangover from the Euros or have a team filled with players with mental illnesses. Most top sides seem doing just fine.
 

GueRed

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Imo that's the blowback of the privilege they receive in the first place. The thread is an example, I never heard of diagnosing mental health issues from on-pitch body language. Fred, Ronaldo, Martial, Pogba have all received equal or more criticism. Some of them actually have it worse because the media joins in. The way Souness and Neville had a go at certain players was straight up shocking, you had Keane saying he'd punch De Gea in the face. Where was their anti-bullying campaign while they were playing garbage?
typical biased xenophobe response
 

GueRed

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We seem to be the only club who has a team filled with players who had a hangover from the Euros or have a team filled with players with mental illnesses. Most top sides seem doing just fine.
Harry Kane?
 

Ayoba

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Speaking of mental health, I think not watching united is a prescription I really need for my own sanity. So much negativity, so much toxicity around the club at the minute. If the performances had a minuscule of improvement in them I could withstand it all, but I think I have reached my limit. I just get no joy whatsover from watching us and for the first time in my 20 years of supporting this football club I am deliberately thinking of skipping a game!
 

devilish

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Harry Kane?
Harry Kane wants out. Its evident that such situation is effecting him. I am also referring to entire squads rather then individual players here because let's face it, its not just Rashford whose playing horrendously at Manchester United but almost everyone.

In my opinion the writing is pretty much on the wall at Manchester United. We've got a side which is filled with cliques, whose nowhere near as talented as we think (consistency had been a problem for years at United) and who think that they can get away with almost anything. Keane said that, Evra said that and Gaz hinted that as well. Name 1 time under Sir Alex when he had to backtrack on live TV about a comment he said about a player of his in front of him as Ole did with Rashford. Its not just Rashford though. Similarly to Rashy Maguire keeps playing week in week out despite being shit, same as Ronaldo (despite being 37 years old) while Greenwood is refusing to pass the damn ball.

That shows how ridiculously powerful players are
 
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Wheato

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I was at the game last night, and when you are in the ground you see things that the TV cameras don't pick up. Early into the first half of the match, Rashford had made a few good runs on the left, cut inside. Took Cash on for the only time in the game. Anyway, as the ball was up the other end of the pitch he was bent over, leaning onto his knees, breathing heavily. Quite like you see when a runner has just completed a marathon and they have given everything they had. I looked up at the clock to see how far into the game it was. 15 minutes had elapsed, I said to the chap sat next to me, "He looks fecked already."

And he was.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Great thread this. Rashford has become the main target now for the Ole haters. They have lost their man to blame now so it seems Rashford is the new villain.

Let's be honest if we take Rashford out of the team, which he needs to be, the team will still be an absolute mess. Then the haters will calm down a bit and realise the bigger picture.
 

Greck

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You still cant have an irrational bias against a certain nationality?

Your Keane point is a poor example he's been on Maguire for months now...
Pretty sure that wasn't my point. I don't think anyone will ever say the media has never hounded a british player in the history of ever.

And oh so now I have an anti-english bias. Goodness this is what I was talking about, everyone is after poor ol rashy. I actually try to be balanced when i critique his play but I'm apparently now a xenophobe. Should blend in well with the mental illness he's apparently suffering from that even he didn't know about.

edit For the benefit of anyone jumping in at the middle, point is his play isn't good enough, stop protecting him. No one should get a pass. Preferential treatment in different forms is already breaking the club.
 
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rotherham_red

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This is a public service announcement to some users who can't do anything other than make glib posts about how this and that are "useless" or "lazy". I noticed it a lot tonight regarding Rashford, as many people let out their frustrations. There's a lot of decent comments on this forum but to be honest after reading some of the things in the match thread ("he's a brainless idiot", "he's a diva" etc) I'm not surprised Rashford's head isn't in the right place.

He's suddenly gone from being the golden boy at United, lauded for his off field activities, into the center for a whole list of insults (not to mention the disgusting shite he had to put up with after the Euros).

Do you know what's wrong with him? He's probably mentally fecked or depressed. We actually NEED players like him at the club - United lads who actually have some interest putting our jersey on. Is he monumentally shite at the moment? Without a doubt. He needs hauled off and actually coached through his problems. But the same applies to most of the team.

And before anyone comes in and says "well, he should just toughen up. He's paid loads". Feck. You. It's easy to say when your every waking action isn't dissected, and you're in front of 70,000+ playing like shite for a team that have zero fire. A stiff upper lip only goes so far. If I see one more lazy comment that doesn't actually say anything else other than "he's downed tools" or "has no respect for the badge" I'll unshackle Damo and give his primary weapons systems an extra 2 amps to play with. Anyone who has worked or lived in an environment where everything seems to always go wrong knows that you don't just snap out of that attitude overnight, especially when things continue to go wrong.

The players are mentally weak, but they've been shite for ages. Of course they're mentally weak. Even Sir Alex, the master of the hairdryer treatment, knew when to put an arm around his players. His teams weren't just technically sound - they had drive and determination and ran through walls until the last minute. And if you want players that are emotional like that, it swings both ways. Treat them like shit when they're at their weakest and they'll just crumble.

I know it's frustrating. It's been frustrating for years! And the players are shite. But don't mistake it for not giving a shit - they're just clueless, and need a kick up the arse but not ones that resort to hurling insults.

Why does any of this matter? Analysis of why we're playing poorly is important, and it's the core of this forum. But the childish moaning doesn't do anything other than fuel further moaning. And eventually that feeds into the larger media narrative as a whole, and the atmosphere in the stadium.

Anyway, feel free to call me a cnut. Oates does it twice a day.
Absolutely bang on.

One thing we could never doubt before was Rashford's workrate and commitment but seeing him like that on the bench yesterday I couldn't help but feel for him.

I fear something is very seriously wrong at the club if we're getting this sort of body language from players who were previously so committed and team-first like Bruno and Rashford. I don't know how we resolve it but it needs to be done either way.
 

Bilbo

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Speaking of mental health, I think not watching united is a prescription I really need for my own sanity. So much negativity, so much toxicity around the club at the minute. If the performances had a minuscule of improvement in them I could withstand it all, but I think I have reached my limit. I just get no joy whatsover from watching us and for the first time in my 20 years of supporting this football club I am deliberately thinking of skipping a game!
Genuine question - do you think you would feel the same way if you were not spending time on social media?

Redcafe has been fairly toxic for quite some time now. A large percentage of this forum don't even realise how bad it is, and people are saying that this place is moderate compared to what you might see on Twitter.
 

GueRed

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Pretty sure that wasn't my point. I don't think anyone will ever say the media has never hounded a british player in the history of ever.

And oh so now I have an anti-english bias. Goodness this is what I was talking about, everyone is after poor ol rashy. I actually try to be balanced when i critique his play but I'm apparently now a xenophobe. Should blend in well with the mental illness he's apparently suffering from that even he didn't know about.

edit For the benefit of anyone jumping in at the middle, point is his play isn't good enough, stop protecting him. No one should get a pass. Preferential treatment in different forms is already breaking the club.
Looks like I struck a nerve
 

Greck

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Looks like I struck a nerve
You're not that important mate. I say the same thing in every underperformer's thread, Bruno, Rashford, Ronaldo, raise your play or hit the bench, no excuses. Everyone involved needs to feel the heat.
 

Jireh

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Just like Meghan Markle against the Royal family and the bullish Piers Morgan, 'mental issues' is largely a manipulative PR antidote against criticism. It is very unfair to some of us with immediate family members who have had to deal with mental issues first hand. It is even more damning because we know a person dealing with mental issues gets incapacitated to handle themselves soundly let alone do press interviews or dare to perform before thousands of people.

Whereas I am in favour of supporting our players especially in their weakest moments, I still resent such double standards and manipulation.

Rashy will get out of this slump if he can have the humility to realise that he is not a finished article in terms of actual ability, awareness and decision making. Athleticism (zeal) without knowledge (decision making, awareness) is never good.
 

minoo-utd

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We can't create an excuse after another after another. No excuses for Rashford to not do the talk for this club and plays with his heart and soul, if he is an easy target to speculations and social media propaganda then him or any other player should just leave this club and find some football else where with no pressure. I think football is not for him any more here. His brain or whatever as some assume mentally wise not concentrating in football so why we suffer seeing him and wait for him to grab even a decent pass or do some effort to get a ball? His work is here and he earns load of money for it, if you don't show it then you never deserve it, no excuses whatsoever. And yes we have all the right to criticize every one as some also may suffer depression after this grim football we see. Stop these prim donnas from representing our club, just stop.
 

harms

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(I apologize for the RAWK-ish scale of the post)

It’s certainly one of the most interesting and surprisingly (although, is it, really) aspects of football that had mostly escaped the field of general football discourse. When Rangnick hired a psychologist he had voiced his amazement that it hadn’t been done earlier and I, for one, share his amazement 100%. Especially for the club of our size that’s going through incredibly turbulent times (I’m not even going to mention the little issue of a global pandemic) you’d think that our players’ mental health would be closely monitored at all times as it can influence your performance (or the lack of) just as drastically as a dislocated shoulder, hamstring injury etc.

And Rashford certainly had his fair share of challenges over the past couple of years — stress—induced back injury (not psychological stress, it’s probably worth noting this, but it can play tricks on your mind for sure) that happened right when he had reached the form of his life; never-ending football year that had been prolonged by him (postponing the much-needed surgery) in order to watch the Euros from the bench & missing the decisive penalty in the final, getting tons of abuse; whatever was that Europa League performance… now there are also some girlfriend issue apparently that I haven’t heard of before today.

So yeah, you wouldn’t be surprised if he was having a tough time adjusting to all of this. Especially with people being happy to jump on the bandwagon and blame his charity work for the horrendous dip in his performances.

Now to the controversial (at least for me) part. Criticism (not abuse, there’s a clear difference) is certainly a part of football — if you don’t produce on the pitch, you’re going to get called out for it. Even Messi and Cristiano aren’t exempt from it, rightly or wrongly (personally I think that it’s fair as far as the criticism stays constructive). I hate the rich can’t get sad argument as it’s simply a bunch of ignorant bs, but those lows are an integral part of literally any football career — just like the incredible highs that you’ll rarely (if ever) reach anywhere else, are. And as a professional footballer you have to adapt to that — ideally with the help of medical professionals if needed.

Comparing the accusations of Rashford downing his tools with name-calling and retroactive readjustment of player’s talent assessment is not a good argument. Rashford has downed his tools and there’s no two ways about it, that moment after the Greenwood chance has to be one of the most embarrassing things that I’ve seen from a United player and that’s saying something and it’s certainly a part of a bigger trend.

The questions are 1. why? & 2. what can he (and maybe we as a fan base) can do about it? I’ve already stated multiple reasons that may be the reason or one of the many triggers of his current state and there are many more. Mental health issues of different caliber may very well be one of those (and I’m absolutely sure that he is at least suffering from a burnout of sorts) — but it’s is not a get out of the jail free card, especially when we can only assume that he has (or hasn’t) got those. And while we’re on the topic of mental health awareness, projecting those issues on public figures based only on their public profile is a harmful practice (although nowhere near harmful as dismissing them).

He needs to deal with whatever issues he has and I’m sure that our fans would be supportive of him if he opens up about them (not saying that he should — again — that’s even if he has them). Management should be also held accountable as workers mental health is also their responsibility. But the unspecified mental health issue (that may not even exist) can’t be used as an ultimate defense against constructive criticism — and boy does Rashford deserve a lot of the latter at the moment.
 

Smores

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Feels like reaching for an excuse, it's been one after another with him. I want Martial out the door but you never see the same type of excuses afforded to him.

There's not always an underlying excuse to poor form some players just end up in a rut that's hard to get out from.

I'll forgive poor form if a player is visibly trying but too often he jogs round the pitch not making an effort. He needs taking out the team either way.
 

Withnail

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Yes, somehow it is worse, if we're not going to discuss about a player's performance based on HOW HE IS PERFORMING, then how else do you propose we do that?
Let's not become mental health and body language experts and stick to something that we understand very little of anyway, the football.

I agree that sometimes the criticism gets over the top, but the fans are allowed to be emotional, I don't go to match threads but in general even when the criticism is sharp, it's usually deserved.
I love Rash to bits which is why I avoid talking about his performances at all, but that's just me.
Yeah I still clear of performance threads myself but I still don't understand how it's worse. He looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders, hence the speculation.
 

Mr Pigeon

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(I apologize for the RAWK-ish scale of the post)

It’s certainly one of the most interesting and surprisingly (although, is it, really) aspects of football that had mostly escaped the field of general football discourse. When Rangnick hired a psychologist he had voiced his amazement that it hadn’t been done earlier and I, for one, share his amazement 100%. Especially for the club of our size that’s going through incredibly turbulent times (I’m not even going to mention the little issue of a global pandemic) you’d think that our players’ mental health would be closely monitored at all times as it can influence your performance (or the lack of) just as drastically as a dislocated shoulder, hamstring injury etc.

And Rashford certainly had his fair share of challenges over the past couple of years — stress—induced back injury (not psychological stress, it’s probably worth noting this, but it can play tricks on your mind for sure) that happened right when he had reached the form of his life; never-ending football year that had been prolonged by him (postponing the much-needed surgery) in order to watch the Euros from the bench & missing the decisive penalty in the final, getting tons of abuse; whatever was that Europa League performance… now there are also some girlfriend issue apparently that I haven’t heard of before today.

So yeah, you wouldn’t be surprised if he was having a tough time adjusting to all of this. Especially with people being happy to jump on the bandwagon and blame his charity work for the horrendous dip in his performances.

Now to the controversial (at least for me) part. Criticism (not abuse, there’s a clear difference) is certainly a part of football — if you don’t produce on the pitch, you’re going to get called out for it. Even Messi and Cristiano aren’t exempt from it, rightly or wrongly (personally I think that it’s fair as far as the criticism stays constructive). I hate the rich can’t get sad argument as it’s simply a bunch of ignorant bs, but those lows are an integral part of literally any football career — just like the incredible highs that you’ll rarely (if ever) reach anywhere else, are. And as a professional footballer you have to adapt to that — ideally with the help of medical professionals if needed.

Comparing the accusations of Rashford downing his tools with name-calling and retroactive readjustment of player’s talent assessment is not a good argument. Rashford has downed his tools and there’s no two ways about it, that moment after the Greenwood chance has to be one of the most embarrassing things that I’ve seen from a United player and that’s saying something and it’s certainly a part of a bigger trend.

The questions are 1. why? & 2. what can he (and maybe we as a fan base) can do about it? I’ve already stated multiple reasons that may be the reason or one of the many triggers of his current state and there are many more. Mental health issues of different caliber may very well be one of those (and I’m absolutely sure that he is at least suffering from a burnout of sorts) — but it’s is not a get out of the jail free card, especially when we can only assume that he has (or hasn’t) got those. And while we’re on the topic of mental health awareness, projecting those issues on public figures based only on their public profile is a harmful practice (although nowhere near harmful as dismissing them).

He needs to deal with whatever issues he has and I’m sure that our fans would be supportive of him if he opens up about them (not saying that he should — again — that’s even if he has them). Management should be also held accountable as workers mental health is also their responsibility. But the unspecified mental health issue (that may not even exist) can’t be used as an ultimate defense against constructive criticism — and boy does Rashford deserve a lot of the latter at the moment.
Excellent post. If you play your cards right Niall might make you a Scout :angel:
 

kouroux

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Let's say this mental issue thing is true. If it's the case then why does it effect his on the pitch performance but not his off the pitch performance? Why does it seem to effect all the team? I mean most of our players seems not to give a feck these days. If its down to coaching/management then how come it happened during Mou's, Ole's and Rangnick's administration? Are all these managers shit?

What I do believe is that we've got a huge number of players whose think that football is an afterthought and that they can get out with almost anything. All they have to do is turn up for a couple of matches per season and hire a decent PR teams whose specialised in apology statements. This thread kind of enforce that they might be right.
Do we even have enough information on what's going on with his life outside of football ?
We really do assume a lot of stuff we have no idea about. All we can do if hope a solution can be found and that's it.
 

devilish

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Do we even have enough information on what's going on with his life outside of football ?
We really do assume a lot of stuff we have no idea about. All we can do if hope a solution can be found and that's it.
He is very involved in this feed the children initiative of his. It's all over the news
 

kouroux

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He is very involved in this feed the children initiative of his. It's all over the news
I fail to see why does it matter to us football fans ? If someone can without a doubt proof that his charity is negatively affecting his game or that any other activity he does isn't affected, please I am waiting for an elaborate explanation.
All I read is mostly crazy assumptions one way or the other.
 

tothetop96

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If the player has a mental health issue, then I hope he comes out and says no (or is getting help behind the scenes), otherwise this just feels like pointless speculation and someone trying to find a reason/excuse their fave's poor form. I agree with the person who said speculating about mental health without any evidence as an explanation is actually insulting to people who are actually suffering from issues, especially the ones who aren't as fortunate to have access to the best help that Rashford has.

This just feels like another "stop thrashing our players" thread, which I 100% agree with, but wrapping it up in the guise of speculating about Rashford's mental health, of which nobody here has a clue about feels disingenuous.
As someone with a chronic mental illness I disagree. It's not insulting at all. Someone with a mental illness doesn't care that people speculate others might have one if they're performing poorly at their job. If anything that increases societies awareness of how they can affect people and if I'm ever struggling increased awareness means increased leeway, which is exactly what people with mental illnesses sometimes need.

Why is it disingenuous to speculate that he has a mental health issue when we don't have a clue, but okay to just say he's lazy, shit, spoiled, demotivated etc etc when we don't have a clue of that either. They're all possibilities. We don't have a clue about any of them.

I don't know why other posters on here can't approach the issue of Marcus' form with compassion. Nobody needs to log on here and say he's lazy etc etc and needs to be sold/dropped etc. Nothing negative people post here is going to make him play better. The people in the club close to the issue will deal with it, and there's nothing posting here can do to sway the situation.

But if people are posting shit online about him and he DID have a mental issue, that could be actively damaging. I just see no reward to posting negative stuff at all. I don't understand why people need to continuously give out about another person on a public forum. We all know his form is bad. What more needs to be added?
 
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Judge Red

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I took up running while suffering from depression. During the running was the one time I could be free of the depression. It made me feel alive. I didn’t need to beat my best time to feel good, I just needed to know I’d given my all to something.

They say depression doesn’t care about who you are or how much money you have but you should never really be depressed for those 90 minutes on a football pitch to the point that you’ll turn your back on the ball when it’s free in the box.
 

tothetop96

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Should blend in well with the mental illness he's apparently suffering from that even he didn't know about.
This is essentially how mental illnesses start. Most illnesses of any kind for that matter. People don't just wake up with a mental illness. They come on gradually and people just eventually get to a low point where it's severe enough to be diagnosable. Mental illnesses are a spectrum like everything else.

Your taking the piss out of the possibility that he might have a mental health issue suggests you'd rather his poor form be for a different reason, or you just think it's ridiculous that he might have a mental health issue? All reasons are possible at the moment. We don't know.
 
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devilish

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I fail to see why does it matter to us football fans ? If someone can without a doubt proof that his charity is negatively affecting his game or that any other activity he does isn't affected, please I am waiting for an elaborate explanation.
All I read is mostly crazy assumptions one way or the other.
I never said that its negatively affecting his game. All I said is that if he's truly depressed then everything would be effected by it including his off the pitch commitments. That's how depression usually works
 

kouroux

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I never said that its negatively affecting his game. All I said is that if he's truly depressed then everything would be effected by it including his off the pitch commitments. That's how depression usually works
His work outside could be affected in ways we have no knowledge of. That's something to consider.
 

Pogue Mahone

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(I apologize for the RAWK-ish scale of the post)

It’s certainly one of the most interesting and surprisingly (although, is it, really) aspects of football that had mostly escaped the field of general football discourse. When Rangnick hired a psychologist he had voiced his amazement that it hadn’t been done earlier and I, for one, share his amazement 100%. Especially for the club of our size that’s going through incredibly turbulent times (I’m not even going to mention the little issue of a global pandemic) you’d think that our players’ mental health would be closely monitored at all times as it can influence your performance (or the lack of) just as drastically as a dislocated shoulder, hamstring injury etc.

And Rashford certainly had his fair share of challenges over the past couple of years — stress—induced back injury (not psychological stress, it’s probably worth noting this, but it can play tricks on your mind for sure) that happened right when he had reached the form of his life; never-ending football year that had been prolonged by him (postponing the much-needed surgery) in order to watch the Euros from the bench & missing the decisive penalty in the final, getting tons of abuse; whatever was that Europa League performance… now there are also some girlfriend issue apparently that I haven’t heard of before today.

So yeah, you wouldn’t be surprised if he was having a tough time adjusting to all of this. Especially with people being happy to jump on the bandwagon and blame his charity work for the horrendous dip in his performances.

Now to the controversial (at least for me) part. Criticism (not abuse, there’s a clear difference) is certainly a part of football — if you don’t produce on the pitch, you’re going to get called out for it. Even Messi and Cristiano aren’t exempt from it, rightly or wrongly (personally I think that it’s fair as far as the criticism stays constructive). I hate the rich can’t get sad argument as it’s simply a bunch of ignorant bs, but those lows are an integral part of literally any football career — just like the incredible highs that you’ll rarely (if ever) reach anywhere else, are. And as a professional footballer you have to adapt to that — ideally with the help of medical professionals if needed.

Comparing the accusations of Rashford downing his tools with name-calling and retroactive readjustment of player’s talent assessment is not a good argument. Rashford has downed his tools and there’s no two ways about it, that moment after the Greenwood chance has to be one of the most embarrassing things that I’ve seen from a United player and that’s saying something and it’s certainly a part of a bigger trend.

The questions are 1. why? & 2. what can he (and maybe we as a fan base) can do about it? I’ve already stated multiple reasons that may be the reason or one of the many triggers of his current state and there are many more. Mental health issues of different caliber may very well be one of those (and I’m absolutely sure that he is at least suffering from a burnout of sorts) — but it’s is not a get out of the jail free card, especially when we can only assume that he has (or hasn’t) got those. And while we’re on the topic of mental health awareness, projecting those issues on public figures based only on their public profile is a harmful practice (although nowhere near harmful as dismissing them).

He needs to deal with whatever issues he has and I’m sure that our fans would be supportive of him if he opens up about them (not saying that he should — again — that’s even if he has them). Management should be also held accountable as workers mental health is also their responsibility. But the unspecified mental health issue (that may not even exist) can’t be used as an ultimate defense against constructive criticism — and boy does Rashford deserve a lot of the latter at the moment.
Good post. Covers all the key points. Really not much more to be said.
 

Greck

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Your taking the piss out of the possibility that he might have a mental health issue suggests you'd rather his poor form be for a different reason, or you just think it's ridiculous that he might have a mental health issue? All reasons are possible at the moment. We don't know.
I'm taking the piss out of using on-pitch body language to diagnose mental problems. If you even want to go there anyone currently in poor form could technically have mental health issues.

Have you seen Martial? Prime candidate for depression diagnoses. Phil Jones too. Reckon he might have bipolar personality disorder. Maguire, textbook schizophrenia. There's definitely an inner conflicting voice telling him to do the wrong thing.

I better not catch you in any of those players' performance threads criticizing their performances now that I've ascertained the reasons for their poor forms.