United Hour: A Shambles On and Off the Pitch (Brighton Review / Transfer Talk)

That'sHernandez

Ominously close to getting banned
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
23,943
Join us for United therapy, as Nik (@Rood), Colm (@Duafc) and Ashwin (@AR87) get a bit ranty about the current state of Manchester United. What's going wrong on the pitch? What's going wrong off it? Why is our squad in the state that it is? Why do we want to buy Adrien Rabiot and Marko Arnautović? And Nik wants you to stop talking about Frenkie Bloody De Jong....



Listen to the episode on our new hosting site, Sport Social! - https://podcast.sport-social.co.uk/podcast/united-hour/ https://www.megaphone.fm/

Let us know what you think of the pod troops - agree or disagree on the points made? Questions for next week?

Hope you enjoy the pod guys, are any of you transfer muppets like Jamie? What do you want to see from us in the market before closing?

Don't forget to visit https://uk.manscaped.com/?redirect=1 and get 20% off plus Free Shipping when you use the code UNITEDHOUR20 - Don't miss out!

Finally, please check out the Linktree link here for all our social media and other accompanying sites and links (Patreon here too!) https://linktr.ee/unitedhour
 

edgecutter

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
2,578
Good pod lads. My thoughts all summarised about what a shite show we have in front of us.
 

Art

Art the artist
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
7,846
Location
Vancouver
Tuning in for the first time. Enjoyed that episode despite our club being run to the ground. Looking forward to your next one.
 

GazTheLegend

Full Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
2,803
We made all Milan's mistakes didn't we? Ageing club buying expensive, high reputation old players who don't cut it anymore, to pretend we aren't fading, and appease the fans.

Never forgotten how Ferguson only ever signed older (29+) players if they were already proven in the league, generally all his signings were expensive but young players with something to prove.

Going for Cavani, Ronaldo, Arnautovic, players like that... It's just embarrassing now. Because how is it that our scouting department cannot find a single player that is an improvement on Fred is beyond my ken. And that they didn't have an alternative to de Jong and it's now August is absolutely criminal. We are WORSE than last season and will finish even lower at this rate.
 

Rood

nostradamus like gloater
Scout
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
18,622
Location
@United_Hour
Good pod lads. My thoughts all summarised about what a shite show we have in front of us.
Tuning in for the first time. Enjoyed that episode despite our club being run to the ground. Looking forward to your next one.
Really enjoyed this! It was a therapeutic listen.
Cheers lads - it's really is essential group therapy at these dire times !


We made all Milan's mistakes didn't we? Ageing club buying expensive, high reputation old players who don't cut it anymore, to pretend we aren't fading, and appease the fans.

Never forgotten how Ferguson only ever signed older (29+) players if they were already proven in the league, generally all his signings were expensive but young players with something to prove.

Going for Cavani, Ronaldo, Arnautovic, players like that... It's just embarrassing now. Because how is it that our scouting department cannot find a single player that is an improvement on Fred is beyond my ken. And that they didn't have an alternative to de Jong and it's now August is absolutely criminal. We are WORSE than last season and will finish even lower at this rate.
It is an interesting parallel to a giant like Milan and maybe a good sign to see they are finally back winning trophies

Thankfully Arnautovic is not coming - TBF I was happy with Cavani but Ronaldo's arrival last season clearly made his contract extension pointless
 

Amir

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2000
Messages
23,780
Location
Rehovot, Israel
It is an interesting parallel to a giant like Milan and maybe a good sign to see they are finally back winning trophies
Unfortunately Milan just need to be very good to win the league in Italy.

Very good won't cut it for us against City and Liverpool. And we're so, so far off the level that will be required.
 

Rams

aspiring to be like Ryan Giggs
Joined
Apr 20, 2000
Messages
40,093
Location
midtable anonymity
Why is it that so called experts can’t understand that 1) the club is in the process of restructuring its football side of things, 2) that setting transfers targets & negotiating takes time, 3) considering this we did well to get Malacia and Martinez, 4) we need short term fixes to fill gaping wholes in the squad such as the striker position, 5) we don’t really have many (if any) options in midfield other than McTomminay & Fred unfortunately and 6) it will take time for ETH to implement his ideas and reap the fruits.

I’m getting tired of listening to drivel from podcasts from people who live in a fantasy world. Life is not like FM and the reality is that things take time and are complicated. What is currently happening to the club is the result of a decade of mismanagement. I’ve been harping on on this site for the best part of a decade how the club needs to restructure the football side of things and finally we’re seeing changes, but it will still take a good 2 to 3 seasons before we see the improvements in terms of succes. We should all know this because Chelsea, City and Liverpool all went through a similar process and it all took them several seasons before they started gaining succes on the pitch. And to start judging a manager’s performance after 1 , yes 1 match?!?! For crying out loud…
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
42,571
Location
Manchester
Why is it that so called experts can’t understand that 1) the club is in the process of restructuring its football side of things, 2) that setting transfers targets & negotiating takes time, 3) considering this we did well to get Malacia and Martinez, 4) we need short term fixes to fill gaping wholes in the squad such as the striker position, 5) we don’t really have many (if any) options in midfield other than McTomminay & Fred unfortunately and 6) it will take time for ETH to implement his ideas and reap the fruits.

I’m getting tired of listening to drivel from podcasts from people who live in a fantasy world. Life is not like FM and the reality is that things take time and are complicated. What is currently happening to the club is the result of a decade of mismanagement. I’ve been harping on on this site for the best part of a decade how the club needs to restructure the football side of things and finally we’re seeing changes, but it will still take a good 2 to 3 seasons before we see the improvements in terms of succes. We should all know this because Chelsea, City and Liverpool all went through a similar process and it all took them several seasons before they started gaining succes on the pitch. And to start judging a manager’s performance after 1 , yes 1 match?!?! For crying out loud…
Good post
 

Duafc

Village Lemon
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
18,610
Why is it that so called experts can’t understand that 1) the club is in the process of restructuring its football side of things, 2) that setting transfers targets & negotiating takes time, 3) considering this we did well to get Malacia and Martinez, 4) we need short term fixes to fill gaping wholes in the squad such as the striker position, 5) we don’t really have many (if any) options in midfield other than McTomminay & Fred unfortunately and 6) it will take time for ETH to implement his ideas and reap the fruits.

I’m getting tired of listening to drivel from podcasts from people who live in a fantasy world. Life is not like FM and the reality is that things take time and are complicated. What is currently happening to the club is the result of a decade of mismanagement. I’ve been harping on on this site for the best part of a decade how the club needs to restructure the football side of things and finally we’re seeing changes, but it will still take a good 2 to 3 seasons before we see the improvements in terms of succes. We should all know this because Chelsea, City and Liverpool all went through a similar process and it all took them several seasons before they started gaining succes on the pitch. And to start judging a manager’s performance after 1 , yes 1 match?!?! For crying out loud…
I think everyone largely feels that way however the club have been on the rebuild for 5 years or more so it isn't as simple as saying it took Liverpool, Chelsea, City a similar time frame, also those 3 teams all had wildly different starting points, ownership structures and footballing models, so the comparison is a very shallow one to make.

Okay we are now on version 5 of the post SAF rebuild and it deserves a new slate, we have new people in almost all levels of the club hierarchy this time too.

That said this window has patently been poorly managed in my view, the signings made are decent but the more priority gaps have been managed poorly. I'm all for giving eth and even murtaugh/Arnold a whole pile of rope but it would be inhuman not to still get frustrated when presented with exhibits that look very much like the classic failing united strategy of the post Fergie era.

Similarly with ETH, as I said I thought we should not be focusing on criticising him so so early however it is a simple conversation to be had to say... Hey starting eriksen that far forward didn't really work out to well did it? That is literally the point of football discourse. You can point that out and still be encouraged by him so far and back him all the way.

I agree that generally things are more complicated and subject to so many layers that we as laypeople do not understand, with the caveat though that it can't simply be used as a blanket excuse for every United window, at some point incompetence or poor delivery has to be brought up and someone be accountable. Not being able to sign a DM or CM in a thoughtful way this window is criminal, similar for an attacking addition. Players were there that other clubs have signed and there remain a long list of players that would improve us that you would think are available, yet here we are chasing 1 player all summer when we could have been more realistic about our needs and draw and signed 2 or 3 players who actually want to play for United and see it as a natural step up in their career, I personally don't think that's an unreasonable take or asking too much.
 

Lyng

Full Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
1,973
Location
Denmark
Why is it that so called experts can’t understand that 1) the club is in the process of restructuring its football side of things, 2) that setting transfers targets & negotiating takes time, 3) considering this we did well to get Malacia and Martinez, 4) we need short term fixes to fill gaping wholes in the squad such as the striker position, 5) we don’t really have many (if any) options in midfield other than McTomminay & Fred unfortunately and 6) it will take time for ETH to implement his ideas and reap the fruits.

I’m getting tired of listening to drivel from podcasts from people who live in a fantasy world. Life is not like FM and the reality is that things take time and are complicated. What is currently happening to the club is the result of a decade of mismanagement. I’ve been harping on on this site for the best part of a decade how the club needs to restructure the football side of things and finally we’re seeing changes, but it will still take a good 2 to 3 seasons before we see the improvements in terms of succes. We should all know this because Chelsea, City and Liverpool all went through a similar process and it all took them several seasons before they started gaining succes on the pitch. And to start judging a manager’s performance after 1 , yes 1 match?!?! For crying out loud…
The issue I take with this is that the so called restructuring does not actually fix the biggest issue with our way of running the club.
There is a lot of talk about backing the manager and we have seen managerial restructures.
But the problem is we are backing the manager the wrong way.
Look at one of the most well run clubs in the world Bayern Munich. The hire and buy to a philosophy and style. Obviously the manager has some say in what players are bought, but ultimately its not his decision.
We have had several reports that our scouting department have come forth with many targets but are simply being ignored in favor of what the manager wants.
This has resulted in exorbitant amounts of money spent on players for a specific manager and thus you end up having a team of mixed philosophies and basically have to start all over every time a new manager is hired.
On top of that our trainings facilities, stadium etc have been neglected for years.
If we are to become a well run club we need to back the manager by making sure training facilities etc are top notch. Make sure he has the best tools available to get the team working.
Let him have a say in transfers, but dont base your transfers on some managers wishlist.
If we want to play progressive pressing football with a high line, we need to buy players that fit that AND we need to hire managers that fit with the philosophy, regardless of what happens with Ten Hag.
This way you dont have to start from scratch with every new manager, and you get a cohesive team with players understanding the system. It also makes it far easier to implement new players when it is 2 that need to learn the system rather then the whole team each time a new manager is hired.

Edit: The point was made on the pod that managers will often rely on players they know. And that is spot on, and is also why it is so dangerous to rely on your manager alone for targets.
 
Last edited:

Rams

aspiring to be like Ryan Giggs
Joined
Apr 20, 2000
Messages
40,093
Location
midtable anonymity
The previous managers since Fergie were employed without the club having the right structures in place. The result? A scatter gun approach in terms of transfers amongst other things. Take City for example, even if Pep were to drop dead tomorrow a new manager should be able to seamlessly drop in and continue their succes because they have the right structures in place and are not reliant on a single person’s idea’s.
It’s going to take time to sort the mess out United are in and fans need to be patient and ignore the negativity spouted out by so called journalists and pundits who can’t even be bothered to do their research properly.
 

Lyng

Full Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
1,973
Location
Denmark
The previous managers since Fergie were employed without the club having the right structures in place. The result? A scatter gun approach in terms of transfers amongst other things. Take City for example, even if Pep were to drop dead tomorrow a new manager should be able to seamlessly drop in and continue their succes because they have the right structures in place and are not reliant on a single person’s idea’s.
It’s going to take time to sort the mess out United are in and fans need to be patient and ignore the negativity spouted out by so called journalists and pundits who can’t even be bothered to do their research properly.
yes but the issue right now is that we again are buying players purely on Ten Hags wishlist.
 

Duafc

Village Lemon
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
18,610
The previous managers since Fergie were employed without the club having the right structures in place. The result? A scatter gun approach in terms of transfers amongst other things. Take City for example, even if Pep were to drop dead tomorrow a new manager should be able to seamlessly drop in and continue their succes because they have the right structures in place and are not reliant on a single person’s idea’s.
It’s going to take time to sort the mess out United are in and fans need to be patient and ignore the negativity spouted out by so called journalists and pundits who can’t even be bothered to do their research properly.
Yeah I agree but are you saying you're confident we now have those same quality structures in place?

If so, how?
 

Duafc

Village Lemon
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
18,610
Also City built their structure specifically to lure Pep, it was fantastically well planned and has been a freakish success outside of the CL.
 

Rams

aspiring to be like Ryan Giggs
Joined
Apr 20, 2000
Messages
40,093
Location
midtable anonymity
yes but the issue right now is that we again are buying players purely on Ten Hags wishlist.
Because it takes time to change the footballing side of things of the way the club is structured and in the meantime we need to fix holes in the squad. We can’t go a season relying Ronaldo and Martial as the center forwards, or Fred and McTomminay as the deep lying midfielders.
The positive thing is that the club has set out a vision in the way it wants its teams to play, and that we appointed Rangnick and ETH to implement that style. However, it will take 3-4 transfer windows at least before we have a squad in place that is appropriate for the style of play that fits with the club’s vision. And similar will apply to the academy as well. Meanwhile, the fans need to be patient and ignore the negative spin by the media.
 

Rams

aspiring to be like Ryan Giggs
Joined
Apr 20, 2000
Messages
40,093
Location
midtable anonymity
Yeah I agree but are you saying you're confident we now have those same quality structures in place?

If so, how?
No we don’t, we are in the process of restructuring. Hence all the changes the past 6 months in the back room staff. It all started with Woodward getting fired (..yes, my interpretation he was fired, typical how it works with big commercial organizations). The restructuring will also take time. These things are complicated and don’t happen over night.
 

Rood

nostradamus like gloater
Scout
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
18,622
Location
@United_Hour
No we don’t, we are in the process of restructuring. Hence all the changes the past 6 months in the back room staff. It all started with Woodward getting fired (..yes, my interpretation he was fired, typical how it works with big commercial organizations). The restructuring will also take time. These things are complicated and don’t happen over night.
We have been 'in the process of restructuring' for about 10yrs now! Basically since Fergie retired

It's more than a year since Woodward's departure was announced (April '21) - ample time to get things in place

I'm usually quite patient with transfers but with many players leaving and a new manager it was absolutely vital to get 5/6 signings confirmed this summer to give Ten Hag any chance to compete, there is still some time to salvage the poor transfer window but it's likely to be a case of 'too little, too late'
 

Livewire1974

If it moves, report it.
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
7,332
Location
Dublin
Great pod guys, loved the comment by @Duafc , something like "if we are going to be bad at least be bad with youth players"
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
37,949
We have been 'in the process of restructuring' for about 10yrs now! Basically since Fergie retired
We haven't though. For the last 10 years Man United have been trying to replicate the Ferguson era.

I mean that was the entire misguided idea around giving Moyes a 6 year contract, hiring Van Gaal with the idea of Giggs taking over, Mourinho's contract extension and then eventually topping it off with the moronic OGS tenure.
 

Duafc

Village Lemon
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
18,610
We haven't though. For the last 10 years Man United have been trying to replicate the Ferguson era.

I mean that was the entire misguided idea around giving Moyes a 6 year contract, hiring Van Gaal with the idea of Giggs taking over then eventually what lead to the moronic OGS tenure.
Yeah I agree with that, I would say possibly only since Mourinho has there been a proper shift and most obviously this last year.

Still, faith is at an all time low!
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
37,949
Yeah I agree with that, I would say possibly only since Mourinho has there been a proper shift and most obviously this last year.

Still, faith is at an all time low!
I'd say the shift started during Mourinho's tenure but Woodward and co capitulated because of the fan response, once they actually had the balls to say no to the manager for once. Then Woodward just gave up on it.

I'm hoping Murtough and Arnold have a bigger backbone and don't relent as easily.
 

GloryHunter07

Full Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
12,115
Really good pod, great to have you lads firing on all cylinders for the new season, shame we had nothing to celebrate.
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
22,828
Location
London / Scotland
Supports
Everton
I can't speak from a United point of view but from an Everton perspective where issues are similar I can say it's very hard to get away from the poor decisions of the past 10 years. Both of us, since Moyes and SAF left have been on similar paths, albeit on different levels. Consistently changing managers and backroom staff is a major hindrance to any side and ironically is what damages clubs as there is no consistency in an ethos or direction of the club. The huge wage structures that each club are incredibly difficult to get away from because it's a vicious cycle.

Players don't want to leave because they're getting paid a lot -> Clubs don't want to sign or pay a big transfer fee for someone that's on high wages -> Incoming players want wages that reflect those at your club etc. The only way to get rid is to wait it out until their contract ends. Something which both you and we have done this summer for example.

We have both had a similar transfer window in that we have a glaring spot that needs to be the priority but it hasn't been addressed (CM for you and ST for us). Is that poor? In the grand scheme of things you'd say yes but when you boil it down to the transfer window still being open, the transfers we have both made in the past and how deals work I wouldn't say so. We have both made transfers that were easy to do and didn't have much negotiation needed. The Vinagre, Tarkowski and Coady deals for us were wrapped up fairly quickly with no issues but other transfers require a bit of time to make sure the fees involved suit both parties and crucially, for both us and United, it's not a panic buy. There are several transfers you could attest to us each over the years which have been shockingly poor and because we have panicked. I don't think either club wants to make the same mistakes, they're trying to get to a level of 'good' across the whole club but it takes time.

You're not just trying to take the team and club from 0 to 100. You're trying to take some aspects of the club from -100 to 0.
 

Duafc

Village Lemon
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
18,610
I can't speak from a United point of view but from an Everton perspective where issues are similar I can say it's very hard to get away from the poor decisions of the past 10 years. Both of us, since Moyes and SAF left have been on similar paths, albeit on different levels. Consistently changing managers and backroom staff is a major hindrance to any side and ironically is what damages clubs as there is no consistency in an ethos or direction of the club. The huge wage structures that each club are incredibly difficult to get away from because it's a vicious cycle.

Players don't want to leave because they're getting paid a lot -> Clubs don't want to sign or pay a big transfer fee for someone that's on high wages -> Incoming players want wages that reflect those at your club etc. The only way to get rid is to wait it out until their contract ends. Something which both you and we have done this summer for example.

We have both had a similar transfer window in that we have a glaring spot that needs to be the priority but it hasn't been addressed (CM for you and ST for us). Is that poor? In the grand scheme of things you'd say yes but when you boil it down to the transfer window still being open, the transfers we have both made in the past and how deals work I wouldn't say so. We have both made transfers that were easy to do and didn't have much negotiation needed. The Vinagre, Tarkowski and Coady deals for us were wrapped up fairly quickly with no issues but other transfers require a bit of time to make sure the fees involved suit both parties and crucially, for both us and United, it's not a panic buy. There are several transfers you could attest to us each over the years which have been shockingly poor and because we have panicked. I don't think either club wants to make the same mistakes, they're trying to get to a level of 'good' across the whole club but it takes time.

You're not just trying to take the team and club from 0 to 100. You're trying to take some aspects of the club from -100 to 0.
 

Rood

nostradamus like gloater
Scout
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
18,622
Location
@United_Hour
We haven't though. For the last 10 years Man United have been trying to replicate the Ferguson era.

I mean that was the entire misguided idea around giving Moyes a 6 year contract, hiring Van Gaal with the idea of Giggs taking over, Mourinho's contract extension and then eventually topping it off with the moronic OGS tenure.
Don't agree at all - Moyes perhaps was an attempt to find the new SAF and then after that there has been a major move away from the SAF style of management where the manager has huge power and say over everything.
Ironically ETH being given full control over transfer targets is a big move back towards that

And yes there has been major structural changes going on ever since SAF retired - this article is 9yrs old:
https://www.caughtoffside.com/2013/09/10/moyes-to-restructure-manchester-uniteds-scouting-system/

This article 4 yrs when the club first announced they wanted a DoF and we still havent got a proper one
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/11/manchester-united-director-of-football
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
37,949
Don't agree at all - Moyes perhaps was an attempt to find the new SAF and then after that there has been a major move away from the SAF style of management where the manager has huge power and say over everything.
Ironically ETH being given full control over transfer targets is a big move back towards that

And yes there has been major structural changes going on ever since SAF retired - this article is 9yrs old:
https://www.caughtoffside.com/2013/09/10/moyes-to-restructure-manchester-uniteds-scouting-system/

This article 4 yrs when the club first announced they wanted a DoF and we still havent got a proper one
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/11/manchester-united-director-of-football
What makes you say that? All of our managers have had a major say in the way the clubs worked - that's why our transfer targets have wildly changed with each managerial change.

I don't doubt that the club revamped its recruiting system - but from everything I can see it's been ignored whenever the push came to shove - big examples being Mourinho signing Matic over Fabinho (a player the club had scouted for years), signing Maguire after rejecting him the year before because Ole/Phelan wanted him.
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
12,171
Why is it that so called experts can’t understand that 1) the club is in the process of restructuring its football side of things, 2) that setting transfers targets & negotiating takes time, 3) considering this we did well to get Malacia and Martinez, 4) we need short term fixes to fill gaping wholes in the squad such as the striker position, 5) we don’t really have many (if any) options in midfield other than McTomminay & Fred unfortunately and 6) it will take time for ETH to implement his ideas and reap the fruits.

I’m getting tired of listening to drivel from podcasts from people who live in a fantasy world. Life is not like FM and the reality is that things take time and are complicated. What is currently happening to the club is the result of a decade of mismanagement. I’ve been harping on on this site for the best part of a decade how the club needs to restructure the football side of things and finally we’re seeing changes, but it will still take a good 2 to 3 seasons before we see the improvements in terms of succes. We should all know this because Chelsea, City and Liverpool all went through a similar process and it all took them several seasons before they started gaining succes on the pitch. And to start judging a manager’s performance after 1 , yes 1 match?!?! For crying out loud…
Exactly this. Remove the emotion and, frankly, naivety and the window is going probably how people should have expected.
  • Reshaping the squad.
    • We moved on a lot of problem players, a massive positive for me, and none of them were regular starters for various reasons. We still have problem players at the club but the situation is better.
    • We signed Eriksen (free), Malacia (£15m + £2m add on), Martinez (£46.8m +£8m add ons). All of these players add depth at a minimum. We don't know how good they will be but we are clearly backing ETH to bring in players he knows.
    • De Jong - there's not a huge amount more the club can do here, ETH clearly wants him, the player is quite obviously slightly (at best) interested. We are not an attractive proposition right now for the world's best players but we have to try.
      • De Jong alternatives; it makes sense we are looking for cheaper, stop gap players like Rabiot if we know he isn't ideal. This is actually a positive for me, we're not going out and offering silly money for Tielemans or whoever because it's clear ETH isn't pushing for it. Maybe it will get to that point but the players I can think of who could play in that role but aren't as good as De Jong will be stupidly expensive, maybe Rice or even JWP - too expensive/not good enough.
    • Arnautovic - this was a shocker, no doubts about it. The idea is ok (similar to Rabiot) a cheap short term option for depth rather than an expensive Cavani like signing.
  • The Brighton game. Simply put, they are a good team who cause everyone problems and usually can't score, we had opportunities (Bruno's was an awful miss, Rashford should have scored at least one, Lallana did handball it and it helped him control it in the box) albeit McT should have been sent off. It was kind of what we should have expected. Getting countered a lot, susceptible to long balls without a fast CB/Sweeping GK, lots of possession without much threat. It's game 1, let's see how we look game 10 and 20 etc.
It takes time to undo all the bad habits and poor managerial appointments/signings we have made. This will be a season with many ropey games, anyone who is complaining about us looking inconsistent and bad this early needs to avoid watching us until, probably, after the WC.
 

AR87

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
3,145
Location
Wan-Bissaka SZN for the next 10 years
What makes you say that? All of our managers have had a major say in the way the clubs worked - that's why our transfer targets have wildly changed with each managerial change.

I don't doubt that the club revamped its recruiting system - but from everything I can see it's been ignored whenever the push came to shove - big examples being Mourinho signing Matic over Fabinho (a player the club had scouted for years), signing Maguire after rejecting him the year before because Ole/Phelan wanted him.
This is still happening. Scouts recommended Pau Torres, but ETH pushed for Lisandro. On a case-by-case basis, I think at times it's fine and, maybe even good to go with what the manager prefers, but if it plays out over a broad set of targets, and multiple windows it becomes very problematic.

Now, what I will say is that unlike Jose and Ole, ETH seems to have a more clear cut idea of the type of players he wants. This should make recruitment and scouting more cohesive. If the club truly is in the midst of some massive recruitment shift that they're committed to and this window's results are being impacted by the type of thing that can yield dividends in the long-term, that's completely fine. However, I remain skeptical until the results and processes begin to show a change.

As things stand the squad is short in areas we knew we needed reinforcement in virtually all of last season. Let's also not forget that one of the reasons put forth for our lack of activity last January was to keep funds available for the summer for whomever the permanent appointment would be. Right now the club hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.

And to start judging a manager’s performance after 1 , yes 1 match?!?! For crying out loud…
We judged a single individual choice he made which backfired. There wasn't some broad discussion on whether ETH is fit for purpose or not, and in fact I'm pretty sure we explicitly stated casting any serious judgment on him at this point would be foolish. That said, you should always be evaluating the manager's choices, because it's all relevant data in his performance. That doesn't mean I'm particularly concerned about him in the short or long-term at the moment.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
42,571
Location
Manchester
yes but the issue right now is that we again are buying players purely on Ten Hags wishlist.
Because we don’t have the structure yet..

I think this window simply has to be influenced by EtH because we still have gaps in our recruitment area.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
37,949
This is still happening. Scouts recommended Pau Torres, but ETH pushed for Lisandro. On a case-by-case basis, I think at times it's fine and, maybe even good to go with what the manager prefers, but if it plays out over a broad set of targets, and multiple windows it becomes very problematic.

Now, what I will say is that unlike Jose and Ole, ETH seems to have a more clear cut idea of the type of players he wants. This should make recruitment and scouting more cohesive. If the club truly is in the midst of some massive recruitment shift that they're committed to and this window's results are being impacted by the type of thing that can yield dividends in the long-term, that's completely fine. However, I remain skeptical until the results and processes begin to show a change.

As things stand the squad is short in areas we knew we needed reinforcement in virtually all of last season. Let's also not forget that one of the reasons put forth for our lack of activity last January was to keep funds available for the summer for whomever the permanent appointment would be. Right now the club hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.
I disagree, this idealistic mindset is what makes you hugely overpay for players. I honestly believe people have massively overcomplicated recruitment in football, with this idea of signing system players. System players are such because they're not very useful outside of said system, so you then struggle to get rid of these players. We've gone down this rabbit many, many times as a football club - now sometimes it wasn't for the sake of a system, but an ideal.

The most successful club in the history of European football, is by far Real Madrid. Is there anything really complicated about their recruitment, than just signing good players across all positions and asking their coach to work with them? In the current market clubs need to be flexible, and not inflexible and stuck their ideals. If you're stuck in your ideals you're basically at the mercy of the market and selling clubs then.

That doesn't mean go down the galactico route of just signing attackers, but it means to fill your squad with good players across the board.
 

I’m loving my life

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 22, 2022
Messages
551
The best United pod I've come across.
Yes, have been listening for a while before signing up to the forum. Have tried other pods but can’t get into them or find the presenters annoying. This one seems to really reflect feelings of United fans I know, with level-headed discussion. Definitely the one I look out for
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rood

Rams

aspiring to be like Ryan Giggs
Joined
Apr 20, 2000
Messages
40,093
Location
midtable anonymity
This is still happening. Scouts recommended Pau Torres, but ETH pushed for Lisandro. On a case-by-case basis, I think at times it's fine and, maybe even good to go with what the manager prefers, but if it plays out over a broad set of targets, and multiple windows it becomes very problematic.

Now, what I will say is that unlike Jose and Ole, ETH seems to have a more clear cut idea of the type of players he wants. This should make recruitment and scouting more cohesive. If the club truly is in the midst of some massive recruitment shift that they're committed to and this window's results are being impacted by the type of thing that can yield dividends in the long-term, that's completely fine. However, I remain skeptical until the results and processes begin to show a change.

As things stand the squad is short in areas we knew we needed reinforcement in virtually all of last season. Let's also not forget that one of the reasons put forth for our lack of activity last January was to keep funds available for the summer for whomever the permanent appointment would be. Right now the club hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.



We judged a single individual choice he made which backfired. There wasn't some broad discussion on whether ETH is fit for purpose or not, and in fact I'm pretty sure we explicitly stated casting any serious judgment on him at this point would be foolish. That said, you should always be evaluating the manager's choices, because it's all relevant data in his performance. That doesn't mean I'm particularly concerned about him in the short or long-term at the moment.
That’s fine, but posters are already writing ETH off after one f-ing match.
 

AR87

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
3,145
Location
Wan-Bissaka SZN for the next 10 years
I disagree, this idealistic mindset is what makes you hugely overpay for players. I honestly believe people have massively overcomplicated recruitment in football, with this idea of signing system players. System players are such because they're not very useful outside of said system, so you then struggle to get rid of these players. We've gone down this rabbit many, many times as a football club - now sometimes it wasn't for the sake of a system, but an ideal.

The most successful club in the history of European football, is by far Real Madrid. Is there anything really complicated about their recruitment, than just signing good players across all positions and asking their coach to work with them? In the current market clubs need to be flexible, and not inflexible and stuck their ideals. If you're stuck in your ideals you're basically at the mercy of the market and selling clubs then.

That doesn't mean go down the galactico route of just signing attackers, but it means to fill your squad with good players across the board.
It's not about system, at least not from what I've read about ETH. He has switched between a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1 based on the personnel at his disposal. However, if you want to play a possession game then you need to prioritize certain skillsets. If you want to play on the counter then you need different profiles. If you want to be a high pressing team different attributes might be required in certain positions than it would if you're happier to play in a mid or low block. So on and so forth.

The list can go on, but based on his preference for a team that is comfortable operating with the ball, and can play out from the back even against pressure, it's important to not have players like AWB at RB who lacks the on-ball ability to play there. Similarly you need CMs more comfortable receiving the ball from the back line and being able to progress the ball forward.

I broadly agree it's not that complex, but it's something that previous managers also wanted to implement, but had recruitment that lacked consistency. Not all of that is there fault given the issues we know have occurred within the recruitment structure and at board level, but in theory a manager with a clearer idea of what he wants and a track record of having been able to implement these principles at his previous club should mean recruitment is less haphazard and scattershot.
 
X