That's a pretty poor article.Ogden might know a thing or two inside Old Trafford but it doesn't make him a better journalist.
United linked with van Gaal in the meeja
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In mid May? I highly doubt we will announce signings, not for a while
We've done it before to be fair.
Yeah I suppose. I can't see anything being done till after the World Cup. We dither too much these days
We've already signed 2 players unless I'm mistaken, the 17 yr old Serbian goalie (announced on manutd.com), and a 16 year old Swiss kid (not sure if this one was confirmed, noticed it on twitter).
Are youth players different?
I'd agree they'll need to know some stuff ahead of us everyday plebs but showing that match isn't conclusive proof. Even if they hadn't a clue what was happening they'd know about the speculation and showing the game is a clever way of getting extra viewers.
It won't happen tomorrow. It's Victoria Day in Canada tomorrow.
Well if the CL final comes and he is not named manager I will be worried, but not before.
Every week the papers claim he will be named in a few days, then zilch.
Its time my mind gets switched on to the world cup. Not having a horse in the race I usually support teams that have Utd players with Portugal normally being my favourite. I suspect once LVG is named manager I will be supporting the Netherlands big time.
Every week the papers claim he will be named in a few days, then zilch.
Its time my mind gets switched on to the world cup. Not having a horse in the race I usually support teams that have Utd players with Portugal normally being my favourite. I suspect once LVG is named manager I will be supporting the Netherlands big time.
Rooney isn't that witty
"Turn back Tony" 
Make. it. official. already.
I laugh far too much at "Turn Back Tony"
I think tomorrow will be the big day.
I hope it's a double/triple whammy; manager and two new signings
Im surprised that so many people just don't understand why we suddenly play 352. Foreign journalists and people are saying its because Van Gaal sees the death of total football lmao. What a load of crap.
The only reason why we pay 352 atm is because Strootman is injured and we have no replacement to play his role. Sneijder isn't capable of playing properly in a 3 man midfield without a #10 and our defense is shocking so Van Gaal tried to fix that by playing 3 CB's.
This system isn't used because of its strength. It was the only solution to major trouble in our squad and its our only ticket to the next round at the WC.
The only reason why we pay 352 atm is because Strootman is injured and we have no replacement to play his role. Sneijder isn't capable of playing properly in a 3 man midfield without a #10 and our defense is shocking so Van Gaal tried to fix that by playing 3 CB's.
This system isn't used because of its strength. It was the only solution to major trouble in our squad and its our only ticket to the next round at the WC.
What does that have to do with anything?
For anyone interested in van Gaal's philosophy and why he says that the formation on the pitch is not very important, i believe this is a nice read. It was posted just before the Bayern - Inter CL final in 2010 and emphasizes on Rinus Michels' analysis of Total Football.
It's quite interesting that LvG himself has said : “My idol, my father was Rinus Michels, who was runner-up with Holland in 1974 and the 1988 European champions. It is the same way in Munich. Only Michels was too defensive, I’m more attacking. It has made us popular and successful.”
It's quite interesting that LvG himself has said : “My idol, my father was Rinus Michels, who was runner-up with Holland in 1974 and the 1988 European champions. It is the same way in Munich. Only Michels was too defensive, I’m more attacking. It has made us popular and successful.”
Rinus Michels the legendary coach who refined Totaalvoetbal or Total Football
Ruud Krol, the left back in the 1974 Dutch team summarized it best:
“Our system was also a solution to a physical problem. How can you play for 90 minutes and remain strong? If I as a left back run 70 meters up the wing it’s not good if I immediately have to run back 70 to my starting place. So if the left midfielder takes my place and left winger takes the midfield position, then it shortens the distance. That was the philosophy.”
If there is one country that knows the importance of space, it is the Dutch. With land at a premium, they came up with innovative ways to increase acreage to accommodate one of the highest population densities in Europe. They are masters of land reclamation.
Pushing those boundaries of space was a huge feature of those legendary Ajax teams in the 1960s which took European football by storm. There was nothing like it seen before. Rinus Michels who came to Ajax in 1964 after Vic Buckingham was sacked initiated a radical breakaway from the traditional norms associated with football.
As a player you could be anything, a striker, a midfielder, or a defender. The exigencies of that moment dictated your nomenclature. Krol points out above, you were supposed to fill in the space left behind by the wingback, whether it was the left midfielder or the striker.
David Goldblatt in his masterful opus ” The Ball Is Round” writes, “alongside this display of positional flexibility and position switching, Ajax attempted to change the space in which the game was being played. “
Wingers and attacking full backs stretched the field to the utmost, hugging the touchlines. While in defense they collapsed the playing area. Crowding the ball carrier and the opposition, playing a high defensive line including the goalkeeper, and using the offside trap.
“When they attacked they attacked with eleven, when they defended they defended with eleven.”
The hierarchical sense of football was turned on its head. In its place was what they would call in cybernetic parlance, a parallel distributed process. It allowed for speedier responses to changes in spatial demands, i.e., the expansion and collapse of space. The continuum of the game was dictated by which player would have the best access to that space, either by a pass, or an intercept. It made no difference in the division of labour whether he was a striker, a full back, or a midfielder. There was a constant switching of positions.
Barry Hulshoff, the Ajax defender on this new approach, “ It was about making space, coming into space, and organizing space-like architecture on the football pitch. “
Playing the sort of high intensity, high energy football demanded extra-ordinary levels of fitness and discipline. Michels completely changed the club culture. Under him, players trained full time, upto four training sessions a day. Carlos Tevez would have never hacked it under this system. Players eschewed ego for complete professionalism and a commitment to win.
Elements of total football were already in place before Michels showed up at Ajax, by his predecessors, Jack Reynolds and Buckingham. However, their ideas although radical, could not be implemented with success because of a number of reasons, but one major factor was the lack of like minded players.
Michels made a number of changes getting rid of the players who he believed could not be part of this new philosophy. He brought in Velibor Vasovic, a tough minded defender from Partizan Belgrade with an unremitting desire to win. From the Ajax youth ranks rose names that would go down in history including Krol, Neeskens, Suurbier, Hulshoff, Muhrens, and Johann Cruyff , the future poster boy of Totalvoetbal. Cruyff and then Stefan Kovacs, the coach installed in place when Michels left for Barca, guided Ajax to its finest hour.
Two antithetical philosophies clashed in the 1972 European Cup final. The suffocating nihilism of Catenaccio embodied by Helenio Herrera and Inter and the free flowing Totaalvoetbal of Michels and Ajax. It was Ajax winning the final, 2-0, heralding the death of Catenaccio.
The legacy of Totaalvoetbal is not just preserved in the Dutch teams that so many love but it has been propagated outside its shores. In fact, that might be the singular achievement of this philosophy. Michels left in 1971 for Barcelona orchestrating a rash of Dutch coaches who have burnished that club with indelible elements of Totaalvoetbal. Cruyff was to follow and then Van Gaal. The number fours in Barca’s cantera provide a unique counterpoint to Barca’s high possession, high pressure game.
Van Gaal acknowledges his debt to Michels. But he sees himself as different too.
“My idol, my father was Rinus Michels, who was runner-up with Holland in 1974 and the 1988 European champions. It is the same way in Munich. Only Michels was too defensive, I’m more attacking. It has made us popular and successful.”
Jose Mourinho can claim some revenge on Totaalvoetball, 38 years later with his version of Catenaccio proving to be successful in overcoming Barcelona in the Champions League semi-finals. Can he do it again today?
Ruud Krol, the left back in the 1974 Dutch team summarized it best:
“Our system was also a solution to a physical problem. How can you play for 90 minutes and remain strong? If I as a left back run 70 meters up the wing it’s not good if I immediately have to run back 70 to my starting place. So if the left midfielder takes my place and left winger takes the midfield position, then it shortens the distance. That was the philosophy.”
If there is one country that knows the importance of space, it is the Dutch. With land at a premium, they came up with innovative ways to increase acreage to accommodate one of the highest population densities in Europe. They are masters of land reclamation.
Pushing those boundaries of space was a huge feature of those legendary Ajax teams in the 1960s which took European football by storm. There was nothing like it seen before. Rinus Michels who came to Ajax in 1964 after Vic Buckingham was sacked initiated a radical breakaway from the traditional norms associated with football.
As a player you could be anything, a striker, a midfielder, or a defender. The exigencies of that moment dictated your nomenclature. Krol points out above, you were supposed to fill in the space left behind by the wingback, whether it was the left midfielder or the striker.
David Goldblatt in his masterful opus ” The Ball Is Round” writes, “alongside this display of positional flexibility and position switching, Ajax attempted to change the space in which the game was being played. “
Wingers and attacking full backs stretched the field to the utmost, hugging the touchlines. While in defense they collapsed the playing area. Crowding the ball carrier and the opposition, playing a high defensive line including the goalkeeper, and using the offside trap.
“When they attacked they attacked with eleven, when they defended they defended with eleven.”
The hierarchical sense of football was turned on its head. In its place was what they would call in cybernetic parlance, a parallel distributed process. It allowed for speedier responses to changes in spatial demands, i.e., the expansion and collapse of space. The continuum of the game was dictated by which player would have the best access to that space, either by a pass, or an intercept. It made no difference in the division of labour whether he was a striker, a full back, or a midfielder. There was a constant switching of positions.
Barry Hulshoff, the Ajax defender on this new approach, “ It was about making space, coming into space, and organizing space-like architecture on the football pitch. “
Playing the sort of high intensity, high energy football demanded extra-ordinary levels of fitness and discipline. Michels completely changed the club culture. Under him, players trained full time, upto four training sessions a day. Carlos Tevez would have never hacked it under this system. Players eschewed ego for complete professionalism and a commitment to win.
Elements of total football were already in place before Michels showed up at Ajax, by his predecessors, Jack Reynolds and Buckingham. However, their ideas although radical, could not be implemented with success because of a number of reasons, but one major factor was the lack of like minded players.
Michels made a number of changes getting rid of the players who he believed could not be part of this new philosophy. He brought in Velibor Vasovic, a tough minded defender from Partizan Belgrade with an unremitting desire to win. From the Ajax youth ranks rose names that would go down in history including Krol, Neeskens, Suurbier, Hulshoff, Muhrens, and Johann Cruyff , the future poster boy of Totalvoetbal. Cruyff and then Stefan Kovacs, the coach installed in place when Michels left for Barca, guided Ajax to its finest hour.
Two antithetical philosophies clashed in the 1972 European Cup final. The suffocating nihilism of Catenaccio embodied by Helenio Herrera and Inter and the free flowing Totaalvoetbal of Michels and Ajax. It was Ajax winning the final, 2-0, heralding the death of Catenaccio.
The legacy of Totaalvoetbal is not just preserved in the Dutch teams that so many love but it has been propagated outside its shores. In fact, that might be the singular achievement of this philosophy. Michels left in 1971 for Barcelona orchestrating a rash of Dutch coaches who have burnished that club with indelible elements of Totaalvoetbal. Cruyff was to follow and then Van Gaal. The number fours in Barca’s cantera provide a unique counterpoint to Barca’s high possession, high pressure game.
Van Gaal acknowledges his debt to Michels. But he sees himself as different too.
“My idol, my father was Rinus Michels, who was runner-up with Holland in 1974 and the 1988 European champions. It is the same way in Munich. Only Michels was too defensive, I’m more attacking. It has made us popular and successful.”
Jose Mourinho can claim some revenge on Totaalvoetball, 38 years later with his version of Catenaccio proving to be successful in overcoming Barcelona in the Champions League semi-finals. Can he do it again today?
Good article on him here on ESPN, back in September on his second stint with the national side.
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/worldcupcentral/id/518?cc=5739
Perhaps some analogies to be made...
However, van Gaal's second tenure with the Oranje has been focused on restructuring -- basically, something he can control; the blooding of new talent and the implementation of a distinct style of play (in other words, the 'Dutch model') as well as restoring law and order (discipline central to his managerial ethos).
[...]
"The KNVB gave me a clear mission to play 'Dutch School' football and with the quality of this squad that must be possible," Van Gaal told journalists last September. The approach he's chosen is essentially the 'Ajax model'; creativity and cleverness inside a proactive and fluid 4-3-3, classical wingers providing natural width -- as well as support in the middle -- and supplying a natural number nine, support from two advanced midfield playmakers and the entire midfield anchored by a 'single pivot'.
[...]
"Recently, the coach said something I'd never heard before in my football life, telling me I was one of the elders in the squad," Van Persie said earlier this year. "The basis of our work is giving young players chances as often as possible," he continued. "Appointing good coaches and training and educating young players -- that is something we do pretty well in the Netherlands."
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/worldcupcentral/id/518?cc=5739
Perhaps some analogies to be made...
However, van Gaal's second tenure with the Oranje has been focused on restructuring -- basically, something he can control; the blooding of new talent and the implementation of a distinct style of play (in other words, the 'Dutch model') as well as restoring law and order (discipline central to his managerial ethos).
[...]
"The KNVB gave me a clear mission to play 'Dutch School' football and with the quality of this squad that must be possible," Van Gaal told journalists last September. The approach he's chosen is essentially the 'Ajax model'; creativity and cleverness inside a proactive and fluid 4-3-3, classical wingers providing natural width -- as well as support in the middle -- and supplying a natural number nine, support from two advanced midfield playmakers and the entire midfield anchored by a 'single pivot'.
[...]
"Recently, the coach said something I'd never heard before in my football life, telling me I was one of the elders in the squad," Van Persie said earlier this year. "The basis of our work is giving young players chances as often as possible," he continued. "Appointing good coaches and training and educating young players -- that is something we do pretty well in the Netherlands."
(Some interesting perspectives from Rummenigge, Guardiola, Bielsa, Mourinho, de Boer, Xavi and his missus.)
All that said, his authoritarian model will eventually lead to conflict; it comes as no surprise given his domineering personality that he's best suited to working with those willing to follow his lead like a teacher. "His extreme honesty and openness can lead to friction, but he is an excellent football teacher and coach," Bayern Munich chairman Karl-Heinz Rummenigge told German magazine Sport Bild.
Van Gaal makes no secret how he prefers football to be played. He takes great pride in his stratagem going as far to publish a book: Biografie and Visie. "I want my teams remembered for how they played," he wrote.
No wonder he's so smug given the quality of coaches who've tried to emulate him. His doctrine has been successfully adopted by Pep Guardiola: "My jaw dropped when I saw Van Gaal's Ajax play," Guardiola wrote in his autobiography My People, My Football. "They perfectly did everything a football team should do in my eyes."
Marcelo Bielsa is also a staunch admirer. His sobriquet 'El Loco' was given to him due to his insatiable fixation with Van Gaal. "I'm a big fan of his," Bielsa confessed. "His philosophy when executed properly, is winning football, and is great for the fans, which is what we should all aspire to accomplish." Jose Mourinho credits the Dutchmen in shaping his own philosophy. "He taught me the trade."
Van Gaal's knack of getting the best out of players regardless of ability places him above most of his contemporaries. He spotted the potential of Thomas Muller and handed professional debuts to teenagers Clarence Seedorf and Andres Iniesta, as well as successfully converting Bastian Schweinsteiger into a defensive midfielder.
"He's probably the most important and the best coach I ever had," Ajax manager Frank de Boer told L'Equipe on the eve of the Oranje's World Cup semi-final against Brazil in 1998.
Fifteen years on and the answer remains the same. Xavi, who was brought through from La Masia by van Gaal, once described him as a father figure. "I owe much to him. Sometimes he even preferred me over Guardiola, and I was only 18. That's quite a bit. Van Gaal is a formidable guy."
The disappointment last summer was a humbling experience for the Dutch but has been used by van Gaal as a moment of reflection. They're not the force they once were, but they can be again. Under him there's a clear message and path. You can see the work he is doing, moulding a new generation of 'Dutch masters.’
Van Gaal will step down after next summer's World Cup -- club football still greatly appeals -- a mistake according to his wife as she feels his successor (an early favourite is Ronald Koeman) will reap the rewards of his labour.
Time will tell if what he's begun is destined to succeed.
All that said, his authoritarian model will eventually lead to conflict; it comes as no surprise given his domineering personality that he's best suited to working with those willing to follow his lead like a teacher. "His extreme honesty and openness can lead to friction, but he is an excellent football teacher and coach," Bayern Munich chairman Karl-Heinz Rummenigge told German magazine Sport Bild.
Van Gaal makes no secret how he prefers football to be played. He takes great pride in his stratagem going as far to publish a book: Biografie and Visie. "I want my teams remembered for how they played," he wrote.
No wonder he's so smug given the quality of coaches who've tried to emulate him. His doctrine has been successfully adopted by Pep Guardiola: "My jaw dropped when I saw Van Gaal's Ajax play," Guardiola wrote in his autobiography My People, My Football. "They perfectly did everything a football team should do in my eyes."
Marcelo Bielsa is also a staunch admirer. His sobriquet 'El Loco' was given to him due to his insatiable fixation with Van Gaal. "I'm a big fan of his," Bielsa confessed. "His philosophy when executed properly, is winning football, and is great for the fans, which is what we should all aspire to accomplish." Jose Mourinho credits the Dutchmen in shaping his own philosophy. "He taught me the trade."
Van Gaal's knack of getting the best out of players regardless of ability places him above most of his contemporaries. He spotted the potential of Thomas Muller and handed professional debuts to teenagers Clarence Seedorf and Andres Iniesta, as well as successfully converting Bastian Schweinsteiger into a defensive midfielder.
"He's probably the most important and the best coach I ever had," Ajax manager Frank de Boer told L'Equipe on the eve of the Oranje's World Cup semi-final against Brazil in 1998.
Fifteen years on and the answer remains the same. Xavi, who was brought through from La Masia by van Gaal, once described him as a father figure. "I owe much to him. Sometimes he even preferred me over Guardiola, and I was only 18. That's quite a bit. Van Gaal is a formidable guy."
The disappointment last summer was a humbling experience for the Dutch but has been used by van Gaal as a moment of reflection. They're not the force they once were, but they can be again. Under him there's a clear message and path. You can see the work he is doing, moulding a new generation of 'Dutch masters.’
Van Gaal will step down after next summer's World Cup -- club football still greatly appeals -- a mistake according to his wife as she feels his successor (an early favourite is Ronald Koeman) will reap the rewards of his labour.
Time will tell if what he's begun is destined to succeed.
Let's hope he's more Louis XIV than Louis XVI.
"Lots of coaches devote their time to wondering how they can ensure that their players are able to do a lot of running during a match. Ajax trains its players to do as little running as possible on the field. That is why positional games are always central to Ajax's training sessions."
"Running is for animals. You need a brain and a ball for football."
(Fu*k off Moyes)
"Running is for animals. You need a brain and a ball for football."
(Fu*k off Moyes)
So looks like it's finally the big day where we announce it. There really is no other choice at the moment so we might as well rather than drag it out any longer. Thank god we can hopefully put last season behind us and be positive about the van Gaal era.
The German equivalent to Zonal Marking compared his time in 2011 (shortly after his appointment at Bayern) with Ludwig the second of Bavaria (Ludwig is the German Louis). The man build Neuenschwanstein etc. and was a big supporter of Wagner but was not appreciated during his tenure because of his waste of money etc.
Somebody who actually is a genius and built something great - but is not appreciated during that time - but maybe you will see it later.
At Bayern he built the foundation for this era of players...
So I went away for the weekend and this STILL isn't done. Is it any clearer when it will be announced?
Not really. Maybe today is the day.
Can we not get this deal already, we all know he has the World Cup to concentrate on , but would it not be better to get him signed and installed before that so he can hit the ground running when he does get here.
So Robin's going to be the main man, where does this leave our other striker who wants to be the main man? I wonder how he'll settle for being a highly paid squad player?
That was my point. Today it will be "postponed" again and there will be some nonsensical expalantion.
he gets
He gets on with the job he is very well paid for or he fecks off.
Today is the day. Probably.
So is it tomorrow again....and i thought Woody was good at closing deals!!
Oh let's blame Rooney for everything shall we? He's been more at fault than Moyes for what's happened this season!!
This anti Rooney thing by some just epitomises what is quite possibly a deeper malaise about where we are right now.
Absolutely, but not until all the papers are signed and he gives his first MUTV interview.
Wonderful read. Thanks !
There can be two main men. He has the identical situation with the Dutch national team. He is reported to be changing the Netherlands's formation to a 5-3-2 to accomodate Van Persie and Robben and give them more freedom. Perhaps this is the shape of things to come at United.
No, there's no way he'd adopt a 532 as a permanent formation with us. He's only playing it because he's missing his key man in Strootman, and the Netherlands defence is even worse than ours.
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He's played every formation imaginable over his career. He'll choose an appropriate one for us. I see him going with some variety of 4231: it's the right balance of winger, #10 and striker to make the best use of our attacking resources. It wouldn't make sense to go 433 given that midfield is a weak spot for us. I mean, we already need to buy 2 top midfielders, why add the pressure of a third?
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