Declan Rice | signs for arsenal

Status
Not open for further replies.

daba

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
894
You do realise you will likely terminate Maguire's contract in order to allow him to leave. No one is paying a fee and giving him 200k a week, as for a lot of clubs outside the top 7, 200k a week would be their highest paid player.

If you offered West Ham Maguire in the deal they hang up the phone right away because by offering them Maguire as a 'makeweight' you actively insult them.

When we were trying to get rid of Aumbamayang I knew getting a fee and for someone to match his 350k a week wages was impossible. So, we negotiated an exit payment which allowed him to leave and get a salary elsewhere that was less than 350k week, but his pay off plus his new salary would equate to around 350k a week.

You will not get a Mars Bar for Harry Maguire, you will pay him to leave the club and if he does sign for West Ham, it will be on a free transfer and it will have cost you around 10m.

If you 'sell' Maguire to West Ham, you will get -10m
Nope. We will sell Maguire at a fee, probably something like £25m I expect, however we will need to pay him off for his existing contract with us, which is where this £10m has been quoted this week. That £10m is effectively a mutual settlement for the remaining two years of his contract.

Maguire is reportedly on £180k currently with us. Let’s say someone like West Ham were to offer Maguire £80k pw, we would then need to pay Maguire off for remaining 100k per week for the next two years (£5.2m per year x 2 = £10.4m).

I think the story from this week is just a journalist doing this exact calculation and making a story out of no real news. In reality I expect Utd and Maguire to agree on a negotiated fee less than the £10m as he’ll be getting that paid upfront as a lump sum instead of over two years. I expect it ends up being around £8m pay off.

Aubameyang was different because he was on double the wages of Maguire and his market value wasn’t high enough to really make anything back. So the decision was probably made to cut ties as soon as possible to avoid him stinking up the place further. Again, Arsenal will have negotiated a settlement for the remains years of his contract.
 

Syphon Wallet

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
425
Rice is not worth more than 50-60m
This might not be a popular take, but I think he's distinctly average and part of the reason they were almost relegated.
 

izak

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,353
Supports
Glory Glory Red Devils
“We would be stupid to buy him at all”

*fast forward 6 months*

Why didn’t we buy Rice!!!!
Or he could be the next Maguire, who only excelled because his team plays in a low block.

Gets a big transfer, put up shit performances and gets memeified because he's overrated.
 

Big Ray

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 23, 2022
Messages
184
Or he could be the next Maguire, who only excelled because his team plays in a low block.

Gets a big transfer, put up shit performances and gets memeified because he's overrated.
This is where he’s at is my worry.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,526
Or he could be the next Maguire, who only excelled because his team plays in a low block.

Gets a big transfer, put up shit performances and gets memeified because he's overrated.
Rice is a DM not a CB.
 

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
11,862
Or he could be the next Maguire, who only excelled because his team plays in a low block.

Gets a big transfer, put up shit performances and gets memeified because he's overrated.
Just as anyone from Brighton could be the next Bissouma.

No one really knows what’s going to happen.

Ten Hag is building the ability to play

Casemiro
Mount/Eriksen- Bruno

or

Rice - Casemiro
Bruno​

depending on the opposition.

1 formation is very creative & another 1 is incredibly hard to penetrate - whilst also having 2 quality players for each position at CDM, CM & CAM.

This is all the whilst not bringing up the creativity of Harry Kane for the forward line.
 

izak

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,353
Supports
Glory Glory Red Devils
Rice is a DM not a CB.
Don't DM's put up shit performance?

My point at a big club our size his Perfomance would be magnified, one feck up from him would be heavily criticised and Memefied because of the fee paid...
 

cheekybackheel

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 28, 2023
Messages
225
If West Ham think Rice is worth £100m then Harry Maguire is worth £50-60m.

Same criteria apply...he's 29/30...English....International captain.

United need to use their influence and presence to starting changing this transfer market mentality. We should just walk from any negotiation when the price gets ridiculous and put the onus on the player. If he wants the move to United then he puts the pressure on his club to reduce the fee.
The transfer market needs a wholesale change when it comes to player prices.
 

izak

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,353
Supports
Glory Glory Red Devils
Anything more than a swap with Mctomainy and 20m is too much.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,526
Don't DM's put up shit performance?

My point at a big club our size his Perfomance would be magnified, one feck up from him would be heavily criticised and Memefied because of the fee paid...
His performance will be magnified but so would his set of skills. Moyes himself had conceded that he had to stamp out most of Rice's technique because he needs him as his Rotweiller guarding the defence. Anyway that's not my point.

In a deep defensive line team the focus is on the midfielders rather then the defenders. The former are expected to close the gaps, defend in numbers and then push the ball forward as quickly and as accurately as possible to make the most out of the few chances they can create. Declan Rice's defensive stats are clear testament to that. He tops the number of interceptions in the EPL and is second to distance covered as well. His passing rate at 83.8% is not shabby either. Eriksen is on 84% while Casemiro is on 79%.

In a high line defensive line up the focus is moved to midfield. Defenders are expected to move higher up and close to CM thus adding more bodies and backup to CM. The team creates more chances which in terms dilute the importance of how many great chances are created. Take for example the treble team. Everyone knew that Cole was nowhere near to the likes of Batistuta or Shearer. Its pretty much like comparing Toney to Benzema tbh. However no one gave a feck about that because the chances kept flowing and Cole was able to convert an above average number of them into goals. Same thing on this regard. Rice will be expected to pass the ball well but since United have better players then it will create more chances which in turn dilute the need to make that killer pass. Anyway in a high line defence if shit hits fan then its usually the defenders that gets the blame. They are the ones expected to drop quickly deep and mop the area.
 
Last edited:

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
11,862
In a deep defensive line team the focus is on the midfielders rather then the defenders. The former are expected to close the gaps, defend in numbers and then push the ball forward as quickly and as accurately as possible to make the most out of the few chances they can create. Declan Rice's defensive stats are clear testament to that. He tops the number of interceptions in the EPL and is second to distance covered as well. His passing rate at 83.8% is not shabby either. Eriksen is on 84% while Casemiro is on 79%.

In a high line defensive line up the focus is moved to midfield. Defenders are expected to move higher up and close to CM thus adding more bodies and backup to CM. The team creates more and if shit hits fan its usually the defenders that gets the blame.
And he has the most progressive carries up the pitch of a player that is not a dribbling winger or a forward.
 

GoonerBear

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
3,002
Supports
Arsenal
Nope. We will sell Maguire at a fee, probably something like £25m I expect, however we will need to pay him off for his existing contract with us, which is where this £10m has been quoted this week. That £10m is effectively a mutual settlement for the remaining two years of his contract.

Maguire is reportedly on £180k currently with us. Let’s say someone like West Ham were to offer Maguire £80k pw, we would then need to pay Maguire off for remaining 100k per week for the next two years (£5.2m per year x 2 = £10.4m).

I think the story from this week is just a journalist doing this exact calculation and making a story out of no real news. In reality I expect Utd and Maguire to agree on a negotiated fee less than the £10m as he’ll be getting that paid upfront as a lump sum instead of over two years. I expect it ends up being around £8m pay off.

Aubameyang was different because he was on double the wages of Maguire and his market value wasn’t high enough to really make anything back. So the decision was probably made to cut ties as soon as possible to avoid him stinking up the place further. Again, Arsenal will have negotiated a settlement for the remains years of his contract.
This is the way I see it. Maguire will still be attractive to some mid table teams, however his wages will be off putting.

You get a fee, you just subsidise his wages that the buying club couldn't afford to give him by giving him the difference that he would have got if he stayed, so the player isn't missing out.
 

yamo123x

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2003
Messages
2,987
Location
england
I hope we are genuinely in for Rice. Probably my favourite non utd player.

mcfred OUT, Mount and Rice in... great business for the club IMHO.

And to those saying Rice aint worth more than 50mill, what world are you living in? Maguire 80, Antony 80, we are talking 50million for Hojlund who doesnt even start for Atalanta
 

davidmichael

Full Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
3,373
In an ideal world West Ham would take £60 million and one of McTominay or Maguire on top to round in out to £95 million, could see Moyes being happy with one of those two plus the cash to spend.
 

izak

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,353
Supports
Glory Glory Red Devils
His performance will be magnified but so would his set of skills. Moyes himself had conceded that he had to stamp out most of Rice's technique because he needs him as his Rotweiller guarding the defence. Anyway that's not my point.

In a deep defensive line team the focus is on the midfielders rather then the defenders. The former are expected to close the gaps, defend in numbers and then push the ball forward as quickly and as accurately as possible to make the most out of the few chances they can create. Declan Rice's defensive stats are clear testament to that. He tops the number of interceptions in the EPL and is second to distance covered as well. His passing rate at 83.8% is not shabby either. Eriksen is on 84% while Casemiro is on 79%.

In a high line defensive line up the focus is moved to midfield. Defenders are expected to move higher up and close to CM thus adding more bodies and backup to CM. The team creates more chances which in terms dilute the importance of how many great chances are created. Take for example the treble team. Everyone knew that Cole was nowhere near to the likes of Batistuta or Shearer. Its pretty much like comparing Toney to Benzema tbh. However no one gave a feck about that because the chances kept flowing and Cole was able to convert an above average number of them into goals. Same thing on this regard. Rice will be expected to pass the ball well but since United have better players then it will create more chances which in turn dilute the need to make that killer pass. Anyway in a high line defence if shit hits fan then its usually the defenders that gets the blame. They are the ones expected to drop quickly deep and mop the area.
Nice, not a Fan of his but your post might have soften my Heart towards him ;)
 

MonsieurGooner

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 11, 2023
Messages
79
Supports
Arsenal
In an ideal world West Ham would take £60 million and one of McTominay or Maguire on top to round in out to £95 million, could see Moyes being happy with one of those two plus the cash to spend.
Strong reports are Arsenal will launch a 92m bid days after West Ham's conference league final. If you guys are dithering around trying to knock the price down offering McTominay or Maguire you will get nowhere, considering from the get go Arsenal will come close to West Ham's valuation with an all cash bid.

I think your top target is Kane or another striker, whoever it is will be very expensive. Can you part with 90-100m for Rice, and be able to do so again for another striker? On top of that you might need go close to 60m if you are to land Mount. You had liquidity issues last January and could only bring in Weghorst after the out of the blue signing of Casemiro and overpayment of Antony in the summer - probably wasn't budgeted very well.

Rice is headed for Arsenal, I can feel it. He is our top target, we have a place for him in the first team and the London thing is something you cannot offer. We are also under no illusions that West Ham would accept a lower fee if we kick in Holding or Lokonga or any other unwanted player
 

El Zoido

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
12,259
Location
UK
Strong reports are Arsenal will launch a 92m bid days after West Ham's conference league final. If you guys are dithering around trying to knock the price down offering McTominay or Maguire you will get nowhere, considering from the get go Arsenal will come close to West Ham's valuation with an all cash bid.

I think your top target is Kane or another striker, whoever it is will be very expensive. Can you part with 90-100m for Rice, and be able to do so again for another striker? On top of that you might need go close to 60m if you are to land Mount. You had liquidity issues last January and could only bring in Weghorst after the out of the blue signing of Casemiro and overpayment of Antony in the summer - probably wasn't budgeted very well.

Rice is headed for Arsenal, I can feel it. He is our top target, we have a place for him in the first team and the London thing is something you cannot offer. We are also under no illusions that West Ham would accept a lower fee if we kick in Holding or Lokonga or any other unwanted player
I agree with all of this. I think him being settled in London is more important than a lot of fans realise. Location is a big deal in any job.
 

King7Eric

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
3,077
Location
Cardiff
Strong reports are Arsenal will launch a 92m bid days after West Ham's conference league final. If you guys are dithering around trying to knock the price down offering McTominay or Maguire you will get nowhere, considering from the get go Arsenal will come close to West Ham's valuation with an all cash bid.

I think your top target is Kane or another striker, whoever it is will be very expensive. Can you part with 90-100m for Rice, and be able to do so again for another striker? On top of that you might need go close to 60m if you are to land Mount. You had liquidity issues last January and could only bring in Weghorst after the out of the blue signing of Casemiro and overpayment of Antony in the summer - probably wasn't budgeted very well.

Rice is headed for Arsenal, I can feel it. He is our top target, we have a place for him in the first team and the London thing is something you cannot offer. We are also under no illusions that West Ham would accept a lower fee if we kick in Holding or Lokonga or any other unwanted player
I don't think money would be an issue if Utd want to buy Rice. I think they could match that price if they get the indication that West Ham will sell at that price and Rice wants to come to Utd. Every year we get reports of Utd having a set budget but I've never heard of us not being able to buy a player because they got too expensive.

He may want to stay in London and fair enough I guess. I think Caicedo and Rice are going to end up at Utd and Arsenal this summer and it's a case of who goes where. Personally, I think Rice will be the better player for a couple of years but if Caicedo keeps up his current trajectory he will become a better player over the long term. Would be happy with either of the two signings in honesty.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
4,275
Location
Copenhagen
Strong reports are Arsenal will launch a 92m bid days after West Ham's conference league final. If you guys are dithering around trying to knock the price down offering McTominay or Maguire you will get nowhere, considering from the get go Arsenal will come close to West Ham's valuation with an all cash bid.

I think your top target is Kane or another striker, whoever it is will be very expensive. Can you part with 90-100m for Rice, and be able to do so again for another striker? On top of that you might need go close to 60m if you are to land Mount. You had liquidity issues last January and could only bring in Weghorst after the out of the blue signing of Casemiro and overpayment of Antony in the summer - probably wasn't budgeted very well.

Rice is headed for Arsenal, I can feel it. He is our top target, we have a place for him in the first team and the London thing is something you cannot offer. We are also under no illusions that West Ham would accept a lower fee if we kick in Holding or Lokonga or any other unwanted player
I think you are right, Rice prefer to stay in London and that gives Arsenal an edge. That being said, I would not be surprised if Moyes was quite keen on McT and that is why the player exchange thing has come up. McTominay (or any other player) will probably be quite expensive for them if they sell Rice to Arsenal first, then try to find a replacement.

Article from a month ago.

«West Ham will allow Declan Rice to leave this summer if they receive £120m from a Champions League club; Hammers would also accept £100m plus a player for midfielder; Arsenal most likely destination at the moment for Rice, with Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool also interested»

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...this-summer-for-120m-to-champions-league-club

(Probably also worth noting that Man Utd will refinance their credit facility in june.)
 
Last edited:

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,526
Nice, not a Fan of his but your post might have soften my Heart towards him ;)

Rice will cost a bomb, possibly second only to Kane. However there's a reason behind the madness.The homegrown rule is something that we need to consider especially since 5 HG players will probably leave next season (Hendo, Heaton, Maguire, Jones and McT). But there is far more to it. First of all Rice is at the right age. At age 24 you can get 8-9 good years out of the guy.

Someone mentioned Maguire. Attitude wise Rice is anything but Maguire. At Leicester, Maguire was always surrounded with experienced/influential players like Morgan and Schmeichel. Once at United it took us very little to understand why. The guy is thin skinned and he needs to be guided. Rice on the other hand had become West Ham's captain at 23 years of age replacing a player that pretty much played in that same CM. Did that hit his performance? The answer is no. He's actually went from strength to strength and that despite playing in a team that is struggling.

Now let's have a look at his attributes. Defensive wise Declan is a beast. This year he was a duracell bunny on the pitch (second only to Ward prowse in terms of distance covered). He topped the list in terms of interceptions as well so he's both hardworking and can read the game very well.Technically he's also very good for a Defensive minded midfielder. His passing rate is that of a high end type of deep playing playmaker and is superior to the flavour of the month Caicedo.



Tactically I believe that Rice should be given priority just below the STK position. We only have one DM and he's 31. Casemiro is great but legs are the first to go and players like him will age badly. Think of an ageing Gattuso and Keane. They rather see red then being constantly disrespected by some snooty 20 year old something with pace. Rice will learn the trade from the best (ie Casemiro), he'll add mileage to the Brazilian's career and we'll finally have a CM that would be as hard as nails second only to the Ince-Keane duo.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,330
In an ideal world West Ham would take £60 million and one of McTominay or Maguire on top to round in out to £95 million, could see Moyes being happy with one of those two plus the cash to spend.
Now that is a more realistic suggestion for player plus cash deal I would say. Wonder which one would suit West Ham better
 

Loon

:lol:
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
9,128
Location
No-Mark
In an ideal world West Ham would take £60 million and one of McTominay or Maguire on top to round in out to £95 million, could see Moyes being happy with one of those two plus the cash to spend.
Stumbling blocks would be the players. I could be wrong, but Maguire's ego would prevent a move to West Ham.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
4,275
Location
Copenhagen
Rice will cost a bomb, possibly second only to Kane. However there's a reason behind the madness.The homegrown rule is something that we need to consider especially since 5 HG players will probably leave next season (Hendo, Heaton, Maguire, Jones and McT). But there is far more to it. First of all Rice is at the right age. At age 24 you can get 8-9 good years out of the guy.

Someone mentioned Maguire. Attitude wise Rice is anything but Maguire. At Leicester, Maguire was always surrounded with experienced/influential players like Morgan and Schmeichel. Once at United it took us very little to understand why. The guy is thin skinned and he needs to be guided. Rice on the other hand had become West Ham's captain at 23 years of age replacing a player that pretty much played in that same CM. Did that hit his performance? The answer is no. He's actually went from strength to strength and that despite playing in a team that is struggling.

Now let's have a look at his attributes. Defensive wise Declan is a beast. This year he was a duracell bunny on the pitch (second only to Ward prowse in terms of distance covered). He topped the list in terms of interceptions as well so he's both hardworking and can read the game very well.Technically he's also very good for a Defensive minded midfielder. His passing rate is that of a high end type of deep playing playmaker and is superior to the flavour of the month Caicedo.



Tactically I believe that Rice should be given priority just below the STK position. We only have one DM and he's 31. Casemiro is great but legs are the first to go and players like him will age badly. Think of an ageing Gattuso and Keane. They rather see red then being constantly disrespected by some snooty 20 year old something with pace. Rice will learn the trade from the best (ie Casemiro), he'll add mileage to the Brazilian's career and we'll finally have a CM that would be as hard as nails second only to the Ince-Keane duo.
Agree with every word.

While a strikker is a bigger need, Rice is a more special opportunity. You said 8-9 years, but that is probably being strict considering that this is a guy who is never injured.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,330
Agree with every word.

While a strikker is a bigger need, Rice is a more special opportunity. You said 8-9 years, but that is probably being strict considering that this is a guy who is never injured.
He is definitely an opportunity but convinced he won't leave London despite Mount (if he signs) trying everything to persuade him
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,336
Location
india
He’ll go to Arsenal. Suits them more than us too. I’d rather see a better passer signed to compliment Casmeiros limitations
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Rice will be a pretty solid addition to our midfield. Just hope we don't end up paying more than 60m, but there's no question his quality imo. Definitely better than Scott and Fred.
 

jackal&hyde

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
4,220
This will not happen. We will most likely go for the 8/10 hybrid like Mason Mount and potentially a young backup value for money 6/8. The connections with United are most likely agent talk to up his price and wages from Arsenal.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Messages
10,069
Location
El Pueblo de la Reyna de los Angeles
He's implying that you're argument that England didn't win recent tournaments being a valid reason to denigrate Rice/England players is weak.
My argument is one can’t use England getting to finals as a reason to say Rice is some kind of amazing player, especially when England were meek, mild, and timid.

By your logic, Harry Maguire must be amazing too, because not only was he in those same England squads as Rice, but he also captained the side, don't you know.
 
Last edited:

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,330
This will not happen. We will most likely go for the 8/10 hybrid like Mason Mount and potentially a young backup value for money 6/8. The connections with United are most likely agent talk to up his price and wages from Arsenal.
Could Rabiot work as the backup 6/8 and yes I know he can't be classed as young
 

jackal&hyde

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
4,220
Could Rabiot work as the backup 6/8 and yes I know he can't be classed as young
I like him a lot as a player. Would he agree to not being an automatic starter though? But actually yes. Mount, Bruno, Rabiot and Casemiro is a very good group. Rabiot could probably both cover for Casemiro and also give us the option to play double pivot and we move on from Fred and McTominay.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.