United Post Ferguson CB Rank Off

BenitoSTARR

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Post Rio and Vidic where would you rank the following CB pairings (I’m just going based on those that have played in the PL together who are naturally CBs feel free to add your own)

It might make sense to post your top 5 pairings if you don’t fancy doing all of them.
  • Smalling + Jones
  • Smalling + Blind
  • Jones + Blind
  • Smalling + Rojo
  • Jones + Rojo
  • Bailly + Blind
  • Bailly + Lindelöf
  • Bailly + Rojo
  • Smalling + Bailly
  • Jones + Bailly
  • Smalling + Lindelöf
  • Maguire + Lindelöf
  • Maguire + Bailly
  • Varane + Maguire
  • Varane + Lindelöf
  • Varane + Martinez
  • Maguire + Martinez
  • Lindelöf + Martinez
  • Maguire + Evans
  • Varane + Evans
  • Lindelöf + Evans
  1. Varane + Martinez
  2. Varane + Maguire
  3. Smalling + Blind
  4. Maguire + Lindelöf
  5. Smalling + Jones
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Post Rio and Vidic where would you rank the following CB pairings (I’m just going based on those that have played in the PL together who are naturally CBs feel free to add your own)

It might make sense to post your top 5 pairings if you don’t fancy doing all of them.
  • Smalling + Jones
  • Smalling + Blind
  • Jones + Blind
  • Smalling + Rojo
  • Jones + Rojo
  • Bailly + Blind
  • Bailly + Lindelöf
  • Bailly + Rojo
  • Smalling + Bailly
  • Jones + Bailly
  • Smalling + Lindelöf
  • Maguire + Lindelöf
  • Maguire + Bailly
  • Varane + Maguire
  • Varane + Lindelöf
  • Varane + Martinez
  • Maguire + Martinez
  • Lindelöf + Martinez
  • Maguire + Evans
  • Varane + Evans
  • Lindelöf + Evans
  1. Varane + Martinez
  2. Varane + Maguire
  3. Smalling + Blind
  4. Maguire + Lindelöf
  5. Smalling + Jones
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Soon to be Yoro Martinez numero uno
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Post Rio and Vidic where would you rank the following CB pairings (I’m just going based on those that have played in the PL together who are naturally CBs feel free to add your own)

It might make sense to post your top 5 pairings if you don’t fancy doing all of them.
  • Smalling + Jones
  • Smalling + Blind
  • Jones + Blind
  • Smalling + Rojo
  • Jones + Rojo
  • Bailly + Blind
  • Bailly + Lindelöf
  • Bailly + Rojo
  • Smalling + Bailly
  • Jones + Bailly
  • Smalling + Lindelöf
  • Maguire + Lindelöf
  • Maguire + Bailly
  • Varane + Maguire
  • Varane + Lindelöf
  • Varane + Martinez
  • Maguire + Martinez
  • Lindelöf + Martinez
  • Maguire + Evans
  • Varane + Evans
  • Lindelöf + Evans
  1. Varane + Martinez
  2. Varane + Maguire
  3. Smalling + Blind
  4. Maguire + Lindelöf
  5. Smalling + Jones
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Your top 2 then god don’t remind me of the rest
 
Probably Maguire-Lindelöf tbh. They played in a high line and achieved 3rd and 2nd place in 19/20 and 20/21. We conceded 36 and 44 goals respectively in those two campaings.

Varane-Martínez was basically low block box defending because of Varane's deficiencies and struggles in a high line. Cannot be the best IMO for this reason. But I know what the general consensus will be, as always. :lol:
 
Should have been Varane and Martinez, but we didn't see it for anywhere near as long as we should have.

Smalling and Blind have a case.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Varane Martinez of course
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Who would you place in 2nd-5th then?

Rojofiam said:
Probably Maguire-Lindelöf tbh. They played in a high line and achieved 3rd and 2nd place in 19/20 and 20/21. We conceded 36 and 44 goals respectively in those two campaings.

Varane-Martínez was basically low block box defending because of Varane's deficiencies and struggles in a high line. Cannot be the best IMO. But I know what the general consensus will be, as always. :lol:
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Maguire + Lindelöf were a surprisingly complimentary pairing given one was naturally aggressive and the other happy to do containment and delay defending.

I’d say they are a close 3rd/4th for me I find it hard to put them above Varane partnerships as when fit it was quality. But you’re right they were responsible for some of the lowest goals conceded. Solskjær for all his critics did a great job there.
 
Remember the geese said:
Should have been Varane and Martinez, but we didn't see it for anywhere near as much as we should have.

Smalling and Blind have a case.
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I’m interested in how far off of Varane and Martinez you feel Smalling + Blind were? Like what do you think gives Varane and Martinez the edge here given it’s a similar-ish idea of a CB pairing?
 
1. Smalling - Blind (we only saw it for one season, but it was the best partnership we've had since Rio and Vidic as they both stayed fit and covered each others weaknesses).
2. Martinez - Varane (the only partnership that had peaks of a similar or higher level as the above, but it wasn't consistent both because of form and injury to the each of them).
3. Maguire - Lindelof (the two of them together never really worked properly as they had similar weaknesses, but sadly they finish 3rd here almost by default of being able to stay fit and together for a couple of years. Hell, they arguably should be 2nd).
4. Rojo - Jones (based purely on 16/17, when they had a period of a couple of months which was right up there with #1 and #2, but it didn't last long and Rojo was never the same after his ACL at the end of that season).
5. Smalling - Jones or Smalling - Lindelof (the former probably had higher peaks but also lower lows, whereas the latter was a bit more consistent).
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I’m interested in how far off of Varane and Martinez you feel Smalling + Blind were? Like what do you think gives Varane and Martinez the edge here given it’s a similar-ish idea of a CB pairing?
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You're right in that they were very similar pairings. I just think that individually, Varane and Martinez were both better players than their equivalents. Though without knowing how many games each pairing played together, I feel a bit short changed by Varane - Martinez. Perhaps what really gives them the edge is a bit of a facade and based more on potential, rather than what we actually saw. Though to reiterate, I do believe both to be better players individually than Smalling and Blind.

Smalling and Blind felt like a nice surprise at the time because many saw Blind as a fullback option or even as a DM. However, the partnership definitely worked. There isn't the same sense of frustration or missed opportunity as there is with Varane and Martinez.
 
Varane and Martinez
Smalling and Blind
Maguire and Lindelof
Smalling and Jones

It gets really, really tricky after that. Smalling and Jones being our 4th best pairing says it all about our defensive partnerships over the last 11 years :lol:
 
Smalling/Blind
Varane/Martinez
Varane/Maguire
Maguire/Lindelöf
Smalling/Jones

Honourable mention Jones/Rojo. Didn't play many games and those they did Rojo should have been sent off in about half of them, but a lot of fun at the time.
 
The top 2 is very close but:

1. Varane - Martinez
2. Smalling - Blind

Varane and Martinez are clearly a better set of players, but how many games did they start together? Maybe 30?

I don't really care about the rest of the pairs. They all range from terrible to just OK.
 
Before anyone shouts Smalling / Blind please remember we played the most defensive system in world football history at the time under Van Gaal.
Most of the possession was in our own half, it was not a very good partnership as much as they were massively protected by a very defensive double pivot on top of a very defensive system.

Martinez / Varane was probably the best until they were ripped apart at Anfield.

Essenty, none of our CB partnerships since SAF were particularly good, since none of our teams since then achieved anything substantial to the size and the history of the club.
 
rimaldo said:
yoro and de ligt
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Obviously they are the best pair after helping United win the Super League in 2028, the World Cup and Intergalatic Champions League.
leontas said:
Varane and Martinez. Those 33 games were glorious.
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Does the lack of longevity go against them here?
MadDogg said:
1. Smalling - Blind (we only saw it for one season, but it was the best partnership we've had since Rio and Vidic as they both stayed fit and covered each others weaknesses).
2. Martinez - Varane (the only partnership that had peaks of a similar or higher level as the above, but it wasn't consistent both because of form and injury to the each of them).
3. Maguire - Lindelof (the two of them together never really worked properly as they had similar weaknesses, but sadly they finish 3rd here almost by default of being able to stay fit and together for a couple of years. Hell, they arguably should be 2nd).
4. Rojo - Jones (based purely on 16/17, when they had a period of a couple of months which was right up there with #1 and #2, but it didn't last long and Rojo was never the same after his ACL at the end of that season).
5. Smalling - Jones or Smalling - Lindelof (the former probably had higher peaks but also lower lows, whereas the latter was a bit more consistent).
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Hard to disagree much with your assessment of Smalling + Blind. I think Smalling whilst an incredibly limited player had enough of the physical side to compliment Blind but I don’t think either of them combined come close to the levels of Rio and Vidic. It’s a really shame that when we look at this list objectively there are so many poor combinations and even the best ones are far off what we’d previously been used to.

Maguire and Lindelöf worked for what we asked them to do but again probably not making anyone’s list of PL great pairings. A functional pairing that gave us a surprisingly good goals conceded record.

Rojo and Jones was probably the most aggressive defensive pair we’ve had and really loved a duel but as you say injuries meant it never had a chance to develop.

Remember the geese said:
You're right in that they were very similar pairings. I just think that individually, Varane and Martinez were both better players than their equivalents. Though without knowing how many games each pairing played together, I feel a bit short changed by Varane - Martinez. Perhaps what really gives them the edge is a bit of a facade and based more on potential, rather than what we actually saw. Though to reiterate, I do believe both to be better players individually than Smalling and Blind.

Smalling and Blind felt like a nice surprise at the time because many saw Blind as a fullback option or even as a DM. However, the partnership definitely worked. There isn't the same sense of frustration or missed opportunity as there is with Varane and Martinez.
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Yeah I think individually everyone would choose Varane over Smalling and Martinez over Blind but as a pairing we got a bit of consistency out of Smalling and Blind that due to injury it’s hard to judge Varane and Martinez in the same way.

I do think Varane and Martinez in theory is the best and in practice was the best (albeit briefly)
bringbackbebe said:
I'm not able to go beyond Varane+Martinez. Please help...
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Gun to your head who do you go 2-5th?
CallyRed said:
Where in god's name is Paddy Mcnair
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Yeah, na.
AltiUn said:
Varane and Martinez
Smalling and Blind
Maguire and Lindelof
Smalling and Jones

It gets really, really tricky after that. Smalling and Jones being our 4th best pairing says it all about our defensive partnerships over the last 11 years :lol:
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Not a great view.
Oldyella said:
Smalling/Blind
Varane/Martinez
Varane/Maguire
Maguire/Lindelöf
Smalling/Jones

Honourable mention Jones/Rojo. Didn't play many games and those they did Rojo should have been sent off in about half of them, but a lot of fun at the time.
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Only half?
Scandi Red said:
The top 2 is very close but:

1. Varane - Martinez
2. Smalling - Blind

Varane and Martinez are clearly a better set of players, but how many games did they start together? Maybe 30?

I don't really care about the rest of the pairs. They all range from terrible to just OK.
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Who is the worst pairing in your mind?
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Yeah I think individually everyone would choose Varane over Smalling and Martinez over Blind but as a pairing we got a bit of consistency out of Smalling and Blind that due to injury it’s hard to judge Varane and Martinez in the same way.
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I'm not sure I would put Varane (the version we saw at Utd obviously) ahead of Smalling. I think Varane's time here is remembered more highly than it actually deserves. His first season was very average with as many bad performances as good, his second mostly good but still with more shockers than you'd want, and his third a bit worse than his second. When he was playing well he was obviously very classy, but I think he was a lot more inconsistent than people normally make out. Plus the injuries of course (which probably contributed somewhat to the inconsistency).

I'd definitely say Smalling in 15/16 was better than Varane was in any of his seasons. It's still the best season any of our defenders have had since Rio and Vida ended IMO. Martinez in 22/23 and Maguire in 20/21 are the only ones close, but they both had more poor performances than Smalling's best season.
 
Scandi Red said:
Has to be one featuring Rojo :lol:

Rojo - Bailly is theoretically the worst, but I doubt there's enough data on it (should be 15-20 games minimum to give a fair assessment).
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They actually had a month or two in 16/17 where they were really good. Crazy, but good. :lol:

Any time after that though and I'd have been terrified of those two together. That debut season was Bailly's best, and Rojo's ACL injury at the end of that season utterly ended him at the top level.
 
MadDogg said:
1. Smalling - Blind (we only saw it for one season, but it was the best partnership we've had since Rio and Vidic as they both stayed fit and covered each others weaknesses).
2. Martinez - Varane (the only partnership that had peaks of a similar or higher level as the above, but it wasn't consistent both because of form and injury to the each of them).
3. Maguire - Lindelof (the two of them together never really worked properly as they had similar weaknesses, but sadly they finish 3rd here almost by default of being able to stay fit and together for a couple of years. Hell, they arguably should be 2nd).
4. Rojo - Jones (based purely on 16/17, when they had a period of a couple of months which was right up there with #1 and #2, but it didn't last long and Rojo was never the same after his ACL at the end of that season).
5. Smalling - Jones or Smalling - Lindelof (the former probably had higher peaks but also lower lows, whereas the latter was a bit more consistent).
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I’d probably go with that
 
Scandi Red said:
Has to be one featuring Rojo :lol:

Rojo - Bailly is theoretically the worst, but I doubt there's enough data on it (should be 15-20 games minimum to give a fair assessment).
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I’d say Bailly and Rojo too. I was never much of a fan of Bailly far too many mistakes and heart in mouth moments for a CB.
 
MadDogg said:
I'm not sure I would put Varane (the version we saw at Utd obviously) ahead of Smalling. I think Varane's time here is remembered more highly than it actually deserves. His first season was very average with as many bad performances as good, his second mostly good but still with more shockers than you'd want, and his third a bit worse than his second. When he was playing well he was obviously very classy, but I think he was a lot more inconsistent than people normally make out. Plus the injuries of course (which probably contributed somewhat to the inconsistency).

I'd definitely say Smalling in 15/16 was better than Varane was in any of his seasons. It's still the best season any of our defenders have had since Rio and Vida ended IMO. Martinez in 22/23 and Maguire in 20/21 are the only ones close, but they both had more poor performances than Smalling's best season.
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To be fair you might be right.

I remember being very frustrated by Smalling being so limited on the ball but don’t remember being too frustrated watching Varane.

I’m not sure how much of Varane is the idea of Varane vs the reality? Which is partly why I’m interested in how much longevity comes into people’s psyche?
 
There are only 2 pairs that even deserve mention

Smalling Blind

Varane-Martinez 22/23 were brilliant.

I think I’d go with Varane Martinez as what they showed that season was that defending mattered and it meant something to them. Smalling and Blind didn’t have that.
 
I didn't like Maguire and Lindelof as a pair at all, despite them being decent defenders in their own right. McFred in front of them made for a very uninspiring spine to the team, in fact, I think people are forgetting just how frustrating that was at times.

Smalling and Blind worked surprisingly well for a time but Martinez and Varane were probably the best. Won two trophies and aside from the 6-3 and 7-0 massacres to City and Liverpool I usually felt pretty confident they could deal with anything. Their last game together they put in a pretty colossal display against City. Shame both of them had their injury issues.
 
1) Varane - Martinez
2) Smalling - Blind

Honestly the rest are a blur or I just don't want to remember them.
 
Its Smalling and Blind or Martinez/Varane.

Literally every other combo has felt like 2 individuals playing at the centre of defence instead of being a proper partnership or thrown together due to injuries. You can get away with this on rare occassions if one of the individuals is a monster like Vidic who could make me look good in defence but Maguire/Lindleof/Rojo/Bailly/Jones arent that kind of defender.
 
Irwin99 said:
I didn't like Maguire and Lindelof as a pair at all, despite them being decent defenders in their own right. McFred in front of them made for a very uninspiring spine to the team, in fact, I think people are forgetting just how frustrating that was at times.

Smalling and Blind worked surprisingly well for a time but Martinez and Varane were probably the best. Won two trophies and aside from the 6-3 and 7-0 massacres to City and Liverpool I usually felt pretty confident they could deal with anything. Their last game together they put in a pretty colossal display against City. Shame both of them had their injury issues.
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Maguire and Lindelöf I don’t think were anyone’s dream CB partners but they were fit, and reasonably consistent in combination with McFred in not conceding goals.

In a more enlightened PL era they probably don’t have the sexiness of your Dias/Van Dijk but despite the frustration they did their job.
Blood Mage said:
1) Varane - Martinez
2) Smalling - Blind

Honestly the rest are a blur or I just don't want to remember them.
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I think the rest suffered from injury a lot or were just so far below what you’d hope.
Andycoleno9 said:
2. Varane-Lindelof
3. Varane-Martinez
4. Bailly- Blind
5. Bailly - Rojo

Worst: any pair with Jones included.
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I quite liked Jones but injuries ruined him.
 
Rojofiam said:
Probably Maguire-Lindelöf tbh. They played in a high line and achieved 3rd and 2nd place in 19/20 and 20/21. We conceded 36 and 44 goals respectively in those two campaings.

Varane-Martínez was basically low block box defending because of Varane's deficiencies and struggles in a high line. Cannot be the best IMO for this reason. But I know what the general consensus will be, as always. :lol:
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Maguire-Lindelog in a high line? When was this exactly?

Varane is comfortably the player out the 4 mentioned most suitable in a high line as he was the quickest.
 
Robertd0803 said:
Its Smalling and Blind or Martinez/Varane.

Literally every other combo has felt like 2 individuals playing at the centre of defence instead of being a proper partnership or thrown together due to injuries. You can get away with this on rare occassions if one of the individuals is a monster like Vidic who could make me look good in defence but Maguire/Lindleof/Rojo/Bailly/Jones arent that kind of defender.
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Yeah I think you’re right here the only ones I’d class as partnerships would be:

Smalling + Blind
Varane + Martinez
Maguire + Lindelöf

Although I always felt the Lindelöf aspect was more down to his consistency and availability over him being a natural complimentary partner for Maguire.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Varane was still comfortably faster than Martinez, think you were watching a different player.
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Dominos said:
Maguire-Lindelog in a high line? When was this exactly?

Varane is comfortably the player out the 4 mentioned most suitable in a high line as he was the quickest.
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Pace is far from being the only thing you need to play in a high line as a CB, this is just a myth and the only thing that comes to mind for a lot of people when they hear the word high line. You need good timing, anticipation, press-resistance, communication, passing, the ability to eat up huge spaces quickly when defending a transition (pace is obviously important here, but players who take huge strides but aren't lightning quick are also suitable despite maybe giving fans the impression that they're "sluggish") etc.

Varane was never good enough on the ball, awful in the build-up IMO, his best quality was good box defending when we were defending deep, which combined with decent recovery pace led people to believe he was some world class centre half, but in a well working, high defensive line, you should have to defend your box from deep with significantly lesser frequency.

Also, our average defensive line height and league position in this particular metric in the last 5 seasons:

2019/20: 45.07 (6th highest in the league) - Highest: Liverpool with 49.14
2020/21: 46.16 (4th highest in the league) - Highest: Liverpool with 49.97
2021/22: 42.82 (14th highest in the league) - Highest: Manchester City with 51.17
2022/23: 42.92 (14th highest in the league) - Highest: Manchester City with 51.65
2023/24: 43.54 (15th highest in the league) - Highest: Manchester City with 51.75
 
Am I going crazy but we’re Smalling and Rojo also not bad together? Or was that Jones and Rojo?

Think like others Varane and Martinez/ Smalling and Blind were probably our best.

What a graveyard we have been for 10 years!
 
hobbers said:
Why bother ranking them? Aside from Varane-Martinez all other combos were terrible.
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Including Smalling and Blind?

Not saying they were world beaters but they were a good defensive partnership.

I do think it’s quite clear (with hindsight) how sub par our defensive duos have been. We put our faith into Smalling and Jones developing into top class CBs from a young age but injuries prevented Jones (who I still maintain was one of the best young CBs I’ve ever seen) from becoming a world class reliable player.


Berbasbullet said:
Am I going crazy but we’re Smalling and Rojo also not bad together? Or was that Jones and Rojo?

Think like others Varane and Martinez/ Smalling and Blind were probably our best.

What a graveyard we have been for 10 years!
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There was a brief period of time where Jones/Smalling and Rojo were aggressive and quality. Then Rojo and Jones kept getting injured so any chance of developing a partnership went out the window.

It gets even worse when you look at our midfields too… in fact pretty much every part of the pitch has a few horrors… I have another thread idea!
 
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