United's form since going Top of the Table in January

[Hughie77]

The 3-3 against Everton was a bad result to take, it felt like a loss, that game has put us on the defensive, before that the attacking play was crisp, since that game we've seen one outstanding display RSO away. Chelsea away I'd take a draw even if I think we should have gone for it in last 20 mins. Palace no way a Draw is bad .

 

[Counterfactual]

The form table for the last 10 league games puts us in joint 5th, which is ominous and I think why so many fans are rattled.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

So our form is due to City’s winning streak even though we haven’t played them in the league during the period in question? Glazerbot

 

[DomesticTadpole]

So our form is due to City’s winning streak even though we haven’t played them in the league during the period in question? Glazerbot

No. It is because of us, nobody else. No excuses.

 

[Champ]

I disregard anything coming from clubs with unlimited funds. We can't arm wrestle them on their own terms. Hence why we need to be smart and use our money wisely. Which is what Sir Alex did, what Ranieri did in 2015-2016 and what Klopp did just few months ago.

And we're nowhere near there. Defence is still weak despite the fact we've spent 145m in it. We're too reliant on Bruno in midfield despite the club spent good money on VDB and the forward line is non existent.

Ole is an upgrade on his predecessors. He's got a vision, he's still hungry (something that Moyes never was and LVG/Mou had lost) and he's an excellent man manager. However there's many aspects in his game that makes you wonder if he's good enough. His tactics are meah, his coaching is weak, he's got no plan B and he's stubborn both in terms of relying on substitutions or trusting the alternative option to the usually very expensive local boy he wants. On top of that he likes to surround with like minded mates which won't help him challenge his views or bring new ideas into the mix.

All of what you say is really based on assumptions.
We have no idea what Ole and his clan speak about behind closed doors, to say all they do is agree is churlish and an idea plucked out of assumptions.

Our defence isn't weak as such in my opinion, it's more based around individual errors, our defence are capable of brilliant performances, Chelsea game being one.

Of course we are going to be reliant on a world class player, most teams are!

Context is needed in our position in the league, we are second, we haven't played amazing football nor convinced in large periods, yet we are second.

 

[redzombie]

the players look gassed, just as they did during the run in last season.

 

[SER19]

As soon as we lost to Sheffield United and drew with Everton, combining with city's bench pissing teams away, it was like a balloon bursting. Tentative belief got shot into the fecking sun and its hard to stay motivated, though the performances have been inexcusable

 

[UDontMessWith24]

No. It is because of us, nobody else. No excuses.

I agree I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of that argument. Right up there with we didn’t expect to win the league so who cares.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

As soon as we lost to Sheffield United and drew with Everton, combining with city's bench pissing teams away, it was like a balloon bursting. Tentative belief got shot into the fecking sun and its hard to stay motivated, though the performances have been inexcusable

Maybe the manager should have a hand in the players staying motivated.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Every team in the Prem apart from the one with the insanely deep squad is struggling right now.

Every single one.

No wonder we sit 2nd, when we've had the luxury of bringing on players the calibre of Pogba, Cavani, and VdB from the bench.

If only we had a manager who could take advantage of the conditions, we could have really challenged for the league.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I agree I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of that argument. Right up there with we didn’t expect to win the league so who cares.

Definitely.

 

[Wumminator]

No wonder we sit 2nd, when we've had the luxury of bringing on players the calibre of Pogba, Cavani, and VdB from the bench.

If only we had a manager who could take advantage of the conditions, we could have really challenged for the league.

I am so confused why people seem to rate VdB.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I am so confused why people seem to rate VdB.

When he leaves Ole's management you'll see why.

 

[SER19]

Maybe the manager should have a hand in the players staying motivated.

He should yes. And the players have a responsibility. Multi factorial

 

[devilish]

All of what you say is really based on assumptions.
We have no idea what Ole and his clan speak about behind closed doors, to say all they do is agree is churlish and an idea plucked out of assumptions.

Our defence isn't weak as such in my opinion, it's more based around individual errors, our defence are capable of brilliant performances, Chelsea game being one.

Of course we are going to be reliant on a world class player, most teams are!

Context is needed in our position in the league, we are second, we haven't played amazing football nor convinced in large periods, yet we are second.

Ole's coaching team is very inexperienced and most come from within the same circle (ie either United or Molde or both). That, United's lack of plan B and our reluctance in using subs doesn't suggest a wealth of new ideas coming through.

Our defence is indeed weak. It lacks leadership, our CBs are painfully slow and its prone to individual errors. Ole spent over 145m in that defence and yet we've conceded more goals then Leicester, West Ham and Arsenal. That despite playing with two enforcers in CM.

Ole need to get credit about his superb man management skills. For the first time since Sir Alex the manager was able to make painful changes (whether they are right or not doesn't matter) without losing the dressing room. However there are certain aspects of his game that are simply not good enough. His tactics and coaching are basic, he relies too much on individual talent to basically bail him out, he seem lacking a Plan B and many players had dipped in form after previously doing so well (Greenwood, Martial, James etc). I also don't buy this squad building BS tbh either. We've got a forward line problem because the coaching staff had failed to identify Lukaku's physical problem and came out with tactics that suits the player like Conte did. We also threw 80m on a CB that needs an 80m CB partner to do well.

 

[croadyman]

Ole's coaching team is very inexperienced and most come from within the same circle (ie either United or Molde or both). That, United's lack of plan B and our reluctance in using subs doesn't suggest a wealth of new ideas coming through.

Our defence is indeed weak. It lacks leadership, our CBs are painfully slow and its prone to individual errors. Ole spent over 145m in that defence and yet we've conceded more goals then Leicester, West Ham and Arsenal. That despite playing with two enforcers in CM.

Ole need to get credit about his superb man management skills. For the first time since Sir Alex the manager was able to make painful changes (whether they are right or not doesn't matter) without losing the dressing room. However there are certain aspects of his game that are simply not good enough. His tactics and coaching are basic, he relies too much on individual talent to basically bail him out, he seem lacking a Plan B and many players had dipped in form after previously doing so well (Greenwood, Martial, James etc). I also don't buy this squad building BS tbh either. We've got a forward line problem because the coaching staff had failed to identify Lukaku's physical problem and came out with tactics that suits the player like Conte did. We also threw 80m on a CB that needs an 80m CB partner to do well.

Yeah the dreadful in game management, lack of a plan B and general over reliance on individual brilliance from someone to bail us out of many poor performances, however like many who also don't think he is the right manager I will credit him for steadying the ship after a toxic atmosphere under Jose and getting out some of the deadwood too.

 

[croadyman]

I am so confused why people seem to rate VdB.

Will admit he didn't look good against West Ham & Southampton when he got a chance in the league, however think the majority of his performances haven't been with the first choice players so don't feel he has ever had that proper opportunity to show what he can do.

 

[Needham]

The word bottlers should be in the grinds my gears thread but this was a clear case of pre-emptive bottling, bottling before the bottle had even been blown into its final bottle shape. The players know they're not good enough, individually and collectively.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

The word bottlers should be in the grinds my gears thread but this was a clear case of pre-emptive bottling, bottling before the bottle had even been blown into its final bottle shape. The players know they're not good enough, individually and collectively.

Nothing indicates a solid manager like the players believing they're not good enough

 

[devilish]

Yeah the dreadful in game management, lack of a plan B and general over reliance on individual brilliance from someone to bail us out of many poor performances, however like many who also don't think he is the right manager I will credit him for steadying the ship after a toxic atmosphere under Jose and getting out some of the deadwood too.

Exactly. Ole is not a top manager however he's still a half decent manager with the right mentality to manage a top club. He's also the best man we had since Sir Alex retired. However that doesn't really say much. Mou and LVG are basically retired in my eyes. Their tactics and mentality do not apply to modern football anymore. Moyes had been shaped to suit EPL mid table - low table clubs. He''s comfortable in rallying the troops so they can make a stand against the top guns but he doesn't have any idea how to manage top players.

The question should not be whether Ole is a train wreck or not. It should be whether Ole can lead us to glory or not. Even then its still a complicated question to answer. If you ask me, then I believe he might have a chance if only the club bothered surrounding him with the right football people (CEO, DOF and coaches). We possibly have the least experienced football staff (coaching and at board level) in top club's history. Part of it is possibly Ole's fault but some is the club's fault as well. We should have hired a CEO who understand football and we should have partnered him with a top DOF years ago.

 

[Godfather]

I'd love to have that optimism of people that still think Ole can take us anywhere

 

[esmufc07]

I do worry about us finishing Top 4. Think we have a very tough run in from now until the end of the season so we need to improve and quick.

 

[croadyman]

I'd love to have that optimism of people that still think Ole can take us anywhere

There are still some out there if you are willing to look hard enough

 

[r3idy]

Bottle jobs, jesus wept !!!!!!! Never heard such a bunch of self entitled whiners since the 20 odd years preceeding Liverpool winning the league.

Every single team this season bar City have gone through serious dips in form. A shit preseason with far from the norm preperation, over worked players getting injured and also losing players to a global pandemic will do that to a club. I can hear the clatter of keyboards right now and thats right, its a level playing field all the clubs have had to deal with this. Yet only one club can 'afford' to stockpile players to field nearly two teams of identical strength and quality. No other club has that depth at their disposal to deal with all that AND players natural dip in form. Not to mention having a nice little covid winter break while all of the other teams are at breaking point with an unrealistic schedule.

It will pain a lot of fans to believe this but our drop in form is really simple to answer. Our drop coincides with Pogba being injured. Put last season to one side, its hard to deny that he was in fine form before his injury. He was a good creative foil for Bruno. It was a different option. Now with him out of the side and more importantly Fred, Martin, Scott being more destroyer than creator, clearly the number of chances we create will be reduced. Mata and DVB injured puts even more pressure on Bruno and more fatigue. The table does not lie sadly

 

[Real Name]

There are still some out there if you are willing to look hard enough

Godfather and you and on a roll since last night. Us vs them, fanboys against real fans like you. Clueless manager and so on. Instead of having cheap shots at Ole try writing a good argumented post like devilish did in this thread.

 

[DRJosh]

2nd isn’t a formality by any means. In fact I suspect we will be fighting for 4th place once Chelsea and Leicester get their act together in the next few games.

 

[Lee565]

We should be proactive and do what chelsea would usually do in the same situation and that identity the downward spiral trend and replace the manager and get that new manager bounce to carry us over the line for a top 4 spot because i don't think we will get top 4, we have seen these relegation type form bad spells under ole in the past and it's glaringly obvious it's happening again.

 

[James35]

We should be proactive and do what chelsea would usually do in the same situation and that identity the downward spiral trend and replace the manager and get that new manager bounce to carry us over the line for a top 4 spot because i don't think we will get top 4, we have seen these relegation type form bad spells under ole in the past and it's glaringly obvious it's happening again.

I feel this will be very reminiscent of the drop off after he got his contract. We were abysmal for the last 10 games or so.

We will surely draw a few more games before the season ends and I can definitely see us getting beat again, starting v City. With the likes of Chelsea looking solid and Spurs starting to win again, top 4 is far from certain.

My biggest fear is Ole will still be given a contract even if we miss out on top 4 and win nothing.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

We should be proactive and do what chelsea would usually do in the same situation and that identity the downward spiral trend and replace the manager and get that new manager bounce to carry us over the line for a top 4 spot because i don't think we will get top 4, we have seen these relegation type form bad spells under ole in the past and it's glaringly obvious it's happening again.

He’s learned from the previous downward spiral, hence his cowardice. He is getting 0-0 draws now in games he would have lost.

 

[Offside]

I mean it’s a drop off but hardly crazy. Not many defeats in there and some very difficult games. Did people really think we were winning the league?

 

[Lee565]

He’s learned from the previous downward spiral, hence his cowardice. He is getting 0-0 draws now in games he would have lost.

Only problem is we aren't playing well and seem to have a must not lose mentality at the moment rather than let's go for the win, I feel one loss soon will create a domino effect of more of the same.

 

[croadyman]

Godfather and you and on a roll since last night. Us vs them, fanboys against real fans like you. Clueless manager and so on. Instead of having cheap shots at Ole try writing a good argumented post like devilish did in this thread.

Yeah but at least I can never be accused of a flip flopper as my stance has been exactly the same since he got appointed permanently in March 2019, look IF he had actually realised that he simply had to recruit some proper coaching back then I would have been willing to give him more of a proper chance and not just wrote off his chances but he never wanted to do that. There is no doubt that he has done some good things for the club behind the scenes and got rid of some deadwood and surely you are at least concerned about how badly he is managing the squad in terms of substitutions in particular.

 

[lex talionis]

Apart from City, aren’t all of the “top six” clubs bottling it this season?

Liverpool, check. Give the scouse a 10/10 for bottlerama considering they’re defending league champion.
Chelsea, check. Give the chavs a 9/10 considering their huge summer outlay.
Spurs, check. Give them an 8.5/10 considering their squad and supposed genius manager.
Arsenal, check. Given le arse a 8/10, considering how woeful they’ve been all season.

That leaves United for judgment. We’re in second, truly above where we thought we’d be at this stage but it still can’t be denied we’ve been dire of late. I’d give our bottle score 6.5 as we’re actually exceeding the realistic expectation most of us had (don’t bother denying it), but it’s hard to exuse on any level dropped points to clubs like Sheffield, West Brom and Palace, with or without Pogba.

 

[Champ]

Ole's coaching team is very inexperienced and most come from within the same circle (ie either United or Molde or both). That, United's lack of plan B and our reluctance in using subs doesn't suggest a wealth of new ideas coming through.

Our defence is indeed weak. It lacks leadership, our CBs are painfully slow and its prone to individual errors. Ole spent over 145m in that defence and yet we've conceded more goals then Leicester, West Ham and Arsenal. That despite playing with two enforcers in CM.

Ole need to get credit about his superb man management skills. For the first time since Sir Alex the manager was able to make painful changes (whether they are right or not doesn't matter) without losing the dressing room. However there are certain aspects of his game that are simply not good enough. His tactics and coaching are basic, he relies too much on individual talent to basically bail him out, he seem lacking a Plan B and many players had dipped in form after previously doing so well (Greenwood, Martial, James etc). I also don't buy this squad building BS tbh either. We've got a forward line problem because the coaching staff had failed to identify Lukaku's physical problem and came out with tactics that suits the player like Conte did. We also threw 80m on a CB that needs an 80m CB partner to do well.

Again, I disagree with several of these points.

Maguire was very good at leicester, he didn't need an £80m CB to assist him there, just Wes Morgan!

The issues in defence are generally to do with indivual mistakes, which points to a concentration issue. The way AWB for example jogs back into position rather than track back early with urgency is a major issue, the switching off at corners/set pieces is an issue. Its an issue all round the team however. I'd say this is more to do with the preperation before games rather than a deeper coaching issue.

Ole has repeatedly changed tactics and shape throughout his tenure at United, although I'll compromise and say that this season he has been too stubborn with using the same formation and players too often.

I don't see an issue with indivual talent winning us games - thats the reason we buy these players, how often does Vardy, KDB, Aguero, Salah, Giroud, Kane etc come up with a moment of quality which wins the game?

Also, this fallacy that we play with two holding midfielders/enforcers has to die. We don't! If people analysed the games they would see Fred and McT's average positions are not that of holding midfielders, and this is part of the issue.
We play very very high, the game at Chelsea is a good example, two very even teams. Both Fred and McT's heatmap show that they played alot in Chelseas half, and not in postions of a typical holding midfielder, or 'enforcer'.
This is part of Ole's gameplan - to maintain control of the game, push the opposition back, which is exactly what we would want from a United manager, it's just a shame that unfortaunately Fred just isn't quite up to the grade, and we are relying on players like Martial for movement.

Ole is beyond criticism, he has to improve and as you say, become more adaptable throughout games like he was last season, however he has definitely shown signs of progress this season.

 

[Amerifan]

Yet we sit second still.

Our form isn't great, but other than City, no other team is in great form either.
The only reason City are in the position they are in is due to the strength in depth they possess.

We are second.

Absolutely. With this year’s schedule every first team is tired and carrying injuries. Pep’s done a good job managing their second team into first place, but no other side has City’s depth of talent. This season favors the deepest side. Things will be more competitive again next season.

 

[Rocknrolla69er]

Inconsistent players coupled with no squad depth of course it was going to happen.

We're still using Martial, Matic, Lindelof,

Relying far too much on Bruno while not using Van de Beek.

Greenwood, Rashford, Fred, Mctominay, Maguire, AwB and De Gea all suffering from inconsistent form.

The only consistent players have been Shaw, Cavani (movements great, service isn't) and Bruno who's now looking tired.

Still feeling the effects of years of shite recruitment, probably take another 2/3 seasons of very shrewd transfer business to resolve

 

[devilish]

Again, I disagree with several of these points.

Maguire was very good at leicester, he didn't need an £80m CB to assist him there, just Wes Morgan!

The issues in defence are generally to do with indivual mistakes, which points to a concentration issue. The way AWB for example jogs back into position rather than track back early with urgency is a major issue, the switching off at corners/set pieces is an issue. Its an issue all round the team however. I'd say this is more to do with the preperation before games rather than a deeper coaching issue.

Ole has repeatedly changed tactics and shape throughout his tenure at United, although I'll compromise and say that this season he has been too stubborn with using the same formation and players too often.

I don't see an issue with indivual talent winning us games - thats the reason we buy these players, how often does Vardy, KDB, Aguero, Salah, Giroud, Kane etc come up with a moment of quality which wins the game?

Also, this fallacy that we play with two holding midfielders/enforcers has to die. We don't! If people analysed the games they would see Fred and McT's average positions are not that of holding midfielders, and this is part of the issue.
We play very very high, the game at Chelsea is a good example, two very even teams. Both Fred and McT's heatmap show that they played alot in Chelseas half, and not in postions of a typical holding midfielder, or 'enforcer'.
This is part of Ole's gameplan - to maintain control of the game, push the opposition back, which is exactly what we would want from a United manager, it's just a shame that unfortaunately Fred just isn't quite up to the grade, and we are relying on players like Martial for movement.

Ole is beyond criticism, he has to improve and as you say, become more adaptable throughout games like he was last season, however he has definitely shown signs of progress this season.

First of all I think that Maguire was ridiculously overrated at Leicester. During his time there Leicester conceded 60 goals (2017-2018) and 48 goals (2018-2019) respectively. To put things in perspective United conceded 35 goals (2015-2016), 29 goals (2016-2017), 28 goals (2017-2018) and only spiralled out of control during the disastrous 2018-2019 with 54 goals (ie when Mou lost the dressing room and Ole came to the rescue). Since then United had conceded more then the norm with 36 goals (2019-2020) and 32 goals this season. Ironically Leicester conceded just 43 goals without him, which is 5 goals less then what they conceded with him in their last season and a looping 17 goals less when compared to 2017-2018. Speaking of them laughing their way to the bank.

Leicester played to his strengths. They played with a deep line which means that it was difficult for opponents to exploit his lack of pace + they placed Morgan alongside him ie a solid, experienced and fearless CB who could do all the thinking for him

Top managers are able to get the best out of his players. Sir Alex for example was able to add mileage to his ancient CMs by playing Cleverley alongside them. He turned decent but not WC strikers like Ole, Teddy, Cole and Yorke into an unstoppable force and he was also able to turn average players like Nicky Butt, John OShea and Philip Neville into internationals and solid squad players. That gave him options and allowed him to rest key players. I understand that no one is like Sir Alex but that's what a top manager with proper coaching skills can do. If a manager needs a star studded team to win then seriously I wonder why that squad needs a manager in the first place. Anyone can win the league with Grealish, Sancho, Bruno, Rashford and Pogba in midfield, Haaland upfront, Maguire and a proper 80m rated CB at the back in defence backed by a 50m rated RB and Luke Shaw.

As said, Ole has his strengths. He's an excellent man manager + he understands and loves the club. Those are underrated qualities indeed which is unfair tbh. The past 3 managers had turned against the club causing untold damage to it to cover the fact that they lost the dressing room. However there are many areas of Ole's game which is simply not good enough. Unfortunately he's insisting on sticking to one of the most inexperienced coaching staff in United's history + he struggles to come out with a plan B. That kind of hints that the guy is set on his ways and is quite resistant in having anyone challenging his believes. Shame.

 

[Champ]

First of all I think that Maguire was ridiculously overrated at Leicester. During his time there Leicester conceded 60 goals (2017-2018) and 48 goals (2018-2019) respectively. To put things in perspective United conceded 35 goals (2015-2016), 29 goals (2016-2017), 28 goals (2017-2018) and only spiralled out of control during the disastrous 2018-2019 with 54 goals (ie when Mou lost the dressing room and Ole came to the rescue). Since then United had conceded more then the norm with 36 goals (2019-2020) and 32 goals this season. Ironically Leicester conceded just 43 goals without him, which is 5 goals less then what they conceded with him in their last season and a looping 17 goals less when compared to 2017-2018. Speaking of them laughing their way to the bank.

Leicester played to his strengths. They played with a deep line which means that it was difficult for opponents to exploit his lack of pace + they placed Morgan alongside him ie a solid, experienced and fearless CB who could do all the thinking for him

Top managers are able to get the best out of his players. Sir Alex for example was able to add mileage to his ancient CMs by playing Cleverley alongside them. He turned decent but not WC strikers like Ole, Teddy, Cole and Yorke into an unstoppable force and he was also able to turn average players like Nicky Butt, John OShea and Philip Neville into internationals and solid squad players. That gave him options and allowed him to rest key players. I understand that no one is like Sir Alex but that's what a top manager with proper coaching skills can do. If a manager needs a star studded team to win then seriously I wonder why that squad needs a manager in the first place. Anyone can win the league with Grealish, Sancho, Bruno, Rashford and Pogba in midfield, Haaland upfront, Maguire and a proper 80m rated CB at the back in defence backed by a 50m rated RB and Luke Shaw.

As said, Ole has his strengths. He's an excellent man manager + he understands and loves the club. Those are underrated qualities indeed which is unfair tbh. The past 3 managers had turned against the club causing untold damage to it to cover the fact that they lost the dressing room. However there are many areas of Ole's game which is simply not good enough. Unfortunately he's insisting on sticking to one of the most inexperienced coaching staff in United's history + he struggles to come out with a plan B. That kind of hints that the guy is set on his ways and is quite resistant in having anyone challenging his believes. Shame.

Look, I'm not sticking up for Ole, he has to improve and fast, but to say too managers are able to get the best out of his players is a little churlish...
Pep has repeatedly brought when he knew a player wasn't good enough, he knew he couldn't get anything out of his defence, so brought another. Yet Pep is clearly a brilliance manager.
SAF did exactly the same, constantly selling players and replacing them.
The issue Ole has is some players he has are not good enough.

I'm hoping we carry on our game raising against City on Sunday otherwise this place will be incredibly toxic!!

 

[redmanx]

I do worry about us finishing Top 4. Think we have a very tough run in from now until the end of the season so we need to improve and quick.

Its going to be hard enough to attract top players in the summer, but if we miss out on top 4 that means no Champions League football and that means we definitely wont attract the best players. Champions League football next season is vital.

 

[kerryman]

Apart from City, aren’t all of the “top six” clubs bottling it this season?

Liverpool, check. Give the scouse a 10/10 for bottlerama considering they’re defending league champion.
Chelsea, check. Give the chavs a 9/10 considering their huge summer outlay.
Spurs, check. Give them an 8.5/10 considering their squad and supposed genius manager.
Arsenal, check. Given le arse a 8/10, considering how woeful they’ve been all season.

That leaves United for judgment. We’re in second, truly above where we thought we’d be at this stage but it still can’t be denied we’ve been dire of late. I’d give our bottle score 6.5 as we’re actually exceeding the realistic expectation most of us had (don’t bother denying it), but it’s hard to exuse on any level dropped points to clubs like Sheffield, West Brom and Palace, with or without Pogba.

We're only second because pretty much all other teams except City are horribly inconsistent this season, not because we've dramatically improved. Points wise, 27 games in, that's almost identical to what we've had under LVG, Mourinho, Moyes except other teams were better then so our position on the table wasn't so lofty. Second sounds good but we're miles behind City still. The club needs to be more ruthless and move on inconsistent performers and ditch the romanticism and "United Way" talk and stop hiring inexperienced coaches like Butt, Carrick etc just because they are ex-players. Hire the best, no matter where they are from. I know Rashford is a fan favourite on here but he's way too inconsistent, he should be a squad player for us not the nailed on starter like most seem to think. Martial needs to be sold, how long are we going to wait to see if he can deliver? We need to spend more wisely, we paid 80 million for Maguire, who has many limitations and hasn't improved our defence. Leicester have conceded fewer goals since he left and we are now conceding more since he arrived....we paid way over the odds for a fairly ordinary defender. City are ruthless, if you're not good enough you are moved on, that's the way it needs to be if you want to compete for titles.