Robson could take a game by 'the scruff of the neck' and make things happen in an average at best team. Keane did well, but if you could swap Robson and Keane around and surround him with world class/very good players, you would see a marked difference. I think I read somewhere hes Uniteds longest serving captain. The fact Robson was also England captain for about 6-7 years speaks volumes as well.
United's Greatest Captain?
- Thread starter GailSpaceWynand
- Start date
Slight tangent but no idea how Reid won that. I'd have given it Sharp (goals), Sheedy (goals and genius) and Southall (superb all season) before Reid.
I actually thought you were joking when you asked the questionWell yeah apart from me
Yeah, you're right. I was looking more at ''Oh, Giggs hasn't been fired yet'' but we need to see him in a club role, sure.
No particular reason apart from the list getting too long. My point for Bruce/Robson, was THIS is how we started. 1992 was the SEASON there after. And the painful 80s, while I did enjoy Spurs and Chelsea back then. Credit to Spurs and Chelsea back then, whoever the chairman were, bringing in beautiful football which transform English football.
Didn't he also get voted for the award four seasons in a row between 98-02? Nominated in 99, won it in 2000, Came second behind Teddy Sheringham in 2001 I think? I think he was in the running in 02 as well. I remember Fergie was adamant that he should have won it in 99 but Ginola took the prize.
Talking about Captain staying for 1 season too many. Neville was definitely 1 season too many. I recalled Bruce on his last game (forgotten against which team), he was clearly out-run and still remembered his face when picking up the ball from the net. I think he knew at that point. Perhaps Cantona was too early but anyway it was his wish.
SAF said 5 or 6 United players would have been worthy winners that year but they split the voting allowing Ginola, who had been better the previous year, to win it off mainly off the back of one FA Cup goal!
At the time I was trying to make a point but looking back at it now I haven't got a clue what that point wasI actually thought you were joking when you asked the question
I knew who the Captains were.
As soon as Keane thought he wasn't playing in a top, top team he threw his toys out of the pram and had to be thrown out of the club.
Great captaincy that.
(if we're having people who nevrr saw Robson and don't know what he did win doing him down with silly arguments)
Great captaincy that.
(if we're having people who nevrr saw Robson and don't know what he did win doing him down with silly arguments)
I'd say all of Robson, Bruce, Keane and especially Neville stayed a year or two longer than they should have. I suppose it comes with the territory of being such great players/captains and loyal servants. In Nevilles case he wanted to retire earlier and Ferguson talked him out of it.
Bit of an over simplification of the situation don't you think?
He didn't get sacked for criticizing teammates in an interview, he got sacked for getting into an argument with and questioning the manager.
Yeah, probably. Given we don't really know what was said and how etc. And I think SAF might have thought it was good timing to go into the post RK era.
I just get a bit fed up with the doing down of Robson by people who don't know. If people want to say Keane because I never saw Robson, fair enough, but some of the rest is too much.
Esp on the other thread. For overall influence in different eras and circumstances, I'm not sure they can be split.
Robson for me. Even with some of the dross around him I always felt he could drag us to a win against anyone, which he did time and time again.
edit: Changed my mind. I don't think there's much between the two of them in terms of ability and leadership and it's not fair to downplay Keane because he played in better teams under the better manager for the majority of his career.
edit: Changed my mind. I don't think there's much between the two of them in terms of ability and leadership and it's not fair to downplay Keane because he played in better teams under the better manager for the majority of his career.
Last edited:
Hard to believe
Scholes - no chance
Giggs - forever vicecaptain it seems, SAF doesn't seem to rate him higher (similar with Rio and Rooney, were the two of 'em ever wore the armband? maybe Rio did few times, Vidic and Evra are ahead of them three, even Fletcher iirc).
I’d say Robson. However when you’ve got two captains so immense, then it’s hard to go one way or another. Keane was a warrior, Robson majestic. We are lucky to have had both.
Based on Fergusons and Keanes latest books we have an idea. Keane and Ferguson had had bust ups before but the difference in 2005 was this one happened in front of the other players.
On the thread topic i only saw the tail end of Robbo's career so i couldn't say who was the better captain. But if he was better than Keane then that is some praise because i personally think Keane is one of the best players/captains i've ever seen.
We were very lucky to have both these legends play for us.
I picked Keane because I saw him play more than Robbo.
I picked Keane because I saw him play more than Robbo.
The real shame for Robson is that he was a bit part player when United finally won titles. Years of carrying the team to limited success and then he's behind Brian McClair in the midfield pecking order when the team finally wins the league.
Great player and great leader. It was a shame for him.
Nah it was right Captain Marvel stayed around long enough to get his hands on a Title winners medal, if anybody deserved to it was him, agree about Neville especially, and Bruce though.
The part Robson played in the development of the Class of 92 playing alongside them in the then Reserve side at that time is often overlooked, as somebody that had seen it and done(England and Manchester United Captain) it all he could easily have given it a miss as many senior players did(at all clubs) but as Club Captain he saw it as his responsibility and gave it 100%.
Don't get me wrong i was glad to see him finally win one even though i was only a kid at the time. I grew up with two much older United supporting brothers and Robbo was their favourite player so i always had a soft spot for him.
I love reading about some of the stories the younger lads had about Robson looking after them. I remember one about Sharpe and i think Paul Stewart where Robbo cleaned out Stewart for picking on Sharpe.
Truth be told Robbo got away with murder at times for United, no doubt him being England Captain as well helped him on that score.Don't get me wrong i was glad to see him finally win one even though i was only a kid at the time. I grew up with two much older United supporting brothers and Robbo was their favourite player so i always had a soft spot for him.
I love reading about some of the stories the younger lads had about Robson looking after them. I remember one about Sharpe and i think Paul Stewart where Robbo cleaned out Stewart for picking on Sharpe.
Pally in his podcast was talking about something similar the other day, but think it was Giggs who was getting lumps kicked out of him, Robbo told him to switch positions with him for 5 minutes and he's sort it out, can't remember who the opposition player was but sure enough a few minutes later he went off on a stretcher.
I think thats the same story i was thinking about. Yeah back in those days who could do what you liked, far removed from todays football.
Do you think both would have had the same impact if they were switched? Keano was a great player but if he didn't have the stars/leaders around him like he did - would his style be too much? Could he have won matches on his own?
Same with Robbo - maybe he wouldn't stand out for his leadership so much if he had great players and leaders to win games? Ofcourse all this is hypothetical. They were the best at that time and exactly what we needed.
I don't know if you have seen Robson at his peak. He was the same for England where he had great players who played with him. He still stood out.
For me it was Keane , it was liking having a manager on the pitch. Whatever about the effect of Fergie's hairdryer treatment .
Many ex teammates often talk about the dreaded stare and inevitable mouthful you would get off Keane if he thought you were not at it 100% on any given day.
And this extended to training as well where he would often ball lads out in a 5 side etc if he thought they were not taking it serious enough , telling players they were there to work hard and not mess about. Rio said it could be annoying at times but but no doubt it was a huge influence in keeping standards up and and instilling that winning mentality that keane demanded off all his teammates.
Many ex teammates often talk about the dreaded stare and inevitable mouthful you would get off Keane if he thought you were not at it 100% on any given day.
And this extended to training as well where he would often ball lads out in a 5 side etc if he thought they were not taking it serious enough , telling players they were there to work hard and not mess about. Rio said it could be annoying at times but but no doubt it was a huge influence in keeping standards up and and instilling that winning mentality that keane demanded off all his teammates.
I would argue - NO. Keane would have given up long ago. Robson was like a big brother dragging a bunch of lazy drunk (kind of harsh, but you know what I mean) along for years. In terms of technical skill and tactical awareness Keane was better, but they were 10 years apart and modern players tend to be better anyway.
I think Referees back in the day understood the game more than they do now, wingers and the more technical players would be targeted every match and the Refs would turn a blind-eye when those handing out the punishment were in a crumpled heap a few minutes later, you had to and were allowed to earn the right to play football.
Now it's just a farce.
The most difficult thing to quantify about if they were switched is how each player would have dealt with the culture. Keane bought into Fergie's culture 100% and was instrumental in implementing it. Would he have been as effective under Big Ron? Hard to know but I don't think it would have suited him as well.
Saying that, it's really overstated the stars and leaders in the team when Keane was there. When Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis left and the class of 92 came into the team, it is massively underplayed how key a role Keane played in that transition.
Having 3 of Beckham, Butt, Scholes and Giggs all in the midfield together at that stage was a massive gamble. They were amazing talents (apart from Butt who was solid) but young and inconsistent and the role Keane played in leading that midfield was incredible.
Robson didn't play with complete duffers either. Wilkins, Webb, Moses, Ince were all quality partners. Strachan, Olsen, Muhren, Whiteside, Sharpe, Wallace, Hughes, Stapleton, McGrath, etc. They were good players.
Robson was a fantastic individual and usually led by example and did it himself. Keane elevated others around him.
Keane showed he could elevate some pretty average players also. In qualifying for the 2002 world cup, the Ireland midfield was McAteer, Keane, Kinsella/Holland and Kilbane. They were genuinely impressive against Portugal and Dutch teams containing Figo, Rui Costa, Van Bommel, Cocu, Kluivert, Overmars, etc.
It's such a shame that Keane didn't get to play that world cup.
The game had to clamp down on the leg breaking tackles but i think it's gone too far the other way now where its virtually a non contact sport. I reckon there was a happy medium in football around the late 90's early 2000's.
Greatest captain is virtually impossible to define due to different eras, different quality of teams etc. I've no problem with Keane or Robson being front runners, but would like to give an honourable mention to a captain who led the way back from relegation - Martin Buchan.
As well as being a top drawer player, he instilled discpline and leadership into a team that had achieved the unthinkable and been relegated to the second tier.
It's a truism in sport that 'you get nowt for coming second' and the league placings in this era resembled a yo-yo, but I do believe that MB helped to restablish self respect moving forward towards the 1980s.
As well as being a top drawer player, he instilled discpline and leadership into a team that had achieved the unthinkable and been relegated to the second tier.
It's a truism in sport that 'you get nowt for coming second' and the league placings in this era resembled a yo-yo, but I do believe that MB helped to restablish self respect moving forward towards the 1980s.
Good post he was an absolute gem of a player captained United through some difficult times led us to the second division title and our great treble buster in 77 a pleasure to see him play
Don't know if there are stats to back it up but there seemed to be less serious long-term injuries back in the day when players were allowed to kick the crap out of each other but that was in part due to the lower quality playing-surfaces, well that and the players honesty.
Yep, then blatant cheats like Ginola and Pires came along and showed everybody the way.
Keane.
Robson was like Gerrard, he led by example, but as a result the team was quite heavily focused on him and what he could/couldn't do. Keane led by example but also demanded everybody else do the same, it made us a better overall group and took us to levels the club had never seen before.
I loved Cantona but he wasn't a Captain in the way those two were. He led by having people in awe of him.
Robson was like Gerrard, he led by example, but as a result the team was quite heavily focused on him and what he could/couldn't do. Keane led by example but also demanded everybody else do the same, it made us a better overall group and took us to levels the club had never seen before.
I loved Cantona but he wasn't a Captain in the way those two were. He led by having people in awe of him.
The level of medical diagnosis to identify injuries thats around nowadays just wasn't available back then. Plus i reckon players just played through various injuries because of the much smaller squad sizes.Don't know if there are stats to back it up but there seemed to be less serious long-term injuries back in the day when players were allowed to kick the crap out of each other but that was in part due to the lower quality playing-surfaces, well that and the players honesty.
Yep, then blatant cheats like Ginola and Pires came along and showed everybody the way.
Nah they're mainly wimps now with low pain tolerance
Cheers thanks. Good post
Yeah thats no doubt a factor too with a lot of them.Nah they're mainly wimps now with low pain tolerance
Robbo.
Captain Marvel
Captain Marvel
SAF used to say of Steve Bruce that nearly every Thursday(probably after a midweek game) he'd be hobbling around the training-ground and he'd puts plans in place in case he wasn't available on the Saturday, but every Saturday he'd turn up and volunteer to play if needed, and he was.
It wasn't mention if he overused the cortisone(or similar) like a lot of players tended to do but suffered for it when they retired, or he just played through the pain.
Bryan Robson. By an absolute country mile.