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United's Greatest Captain?
- Thread starter GailSpaceWynand
- Start date
Come off it.Bryan Robson was a great player and great captain but to say he is a country mile ahead of anyone else is just wrong.
Keane just shades it in my opinion nut I've so issue with anyone who picks Robson.
When I think of the greatest captains, I think of Lothar Matteus or Oliver Kahn. Keane for me belongs in that category. Leaders who did not tolerate anyone giving less that 100%.
Keane had that rare combination of authoritive nature, leadership and motivational qualities all in one. Someone mentioned Gerrard and Robson was more like that, leading by example, but did not demand the level excellence at all times from their squad that Keane did.
Keane had a level of standards that the class of 92 dared not go below, which created an environment for them to reach their potentials and remain at the top for a very long time. Keane always had their backs, if they were getting targeted when they were breaking through as a bunch of kids.
But Robson was phenomenal. He was the first footballer I ever knew about as a 6 year old. He was my first football hero. I'd be happy to agree they were both phenomenal in different ways, and happy to agree that it's very hard to separate them as captains.
Keane had that rare combination of authoritive nature, leadership and motivational qualities all in one. Someone mentioned Gerrard and Robson was more like that, leading by example, but did not demand the level excellence at all times from their squad that Keane did.
Keane had a level of standards that the class of 92 dared not go below, which created an environment for them to reach their potentials and remain at the top for a very long time. Keane always had their backs, if they were getting targeted when they were breaking through as a bunch of kids.
But Robson was phenomenal. He was the first footballer I ever knew about as a 6 year old. He was my first football hero. I'd be happy to agree they were both phenomenal in different ways, and happy to agree that it's very hard to separate them as captains.
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You sure about that, if they didn't watch United every week they'd probably wonder what he actually did apart from scream at his team mates.
Think it was Sheffield United but can't remember the player. Seem to recall Robson swapping positions then just diving into a couple of tackles then going back to Giggs and swapping back.
While Robson was/is my all-time hero, Buchan was the first player I idolised. A Rolls Royce of a player.... never looked flustered and a great captain by example.
Evening Bryan ..... sorry, Alfie.
(and agreed, nothing to do with bias, he just was).
I watched Utd every week, I'd say anyone who says all Keane did was scream at his team mates is talking out of their fecking arse.
I didn't see Robbo play. I'm 40 and began watching United in the 98 (before they won the treble), and I have yet to see a player command, rule, dictate, and most importantly, inspire the players around him to win. Still waiting. No disrespect to Robbo, of course.
Both Robson and Keane were fantastic captains and both had so much influence on the side that it's nigh on impossible to separate them imo.
Have to mention Martin Buchan in any conversation regarding great United captains as well.
Have to mention Martin Buchan in any conversation regarding great United captains as well.
Most neutrals do, especially those that say they've got a soft-spot for United actually.
Keane for me. Captained an incredible team by sheer force of will, demanded the very best from his team mates and led by example in terms of commitment and ability.
Agree with every word of this.
I have a question for people who select Keane above Robson.
How many of you actually saw Robson playing for United in the era of Big Ron? Not as a kid who may not understand much but at least as an adult. Not in highlights or videos or TV. Live.
How many of you actually saw Robson playing for United in the era of Big Ron? Not as a kid who may not understand much but at least as an adult. Not in highlights or videos or TV. Live.
Like i said above, he was our Gerrard. He was a fantastic player but it was all about him, could he win it for us or couldn't he? If he couldn't, he didn't have the influence on the overall team to push them on. Liverpool fans will never shut up about what a great Captain Gerrard was, but aside from a cup here and there they won nothing with him, and neither did we with Robson.
Cantona came along and within a month we went from 8th to 1st. Then when Keane arrived and took the armband we went from a good but inconsistent team to all conquering, winning 7 of the next 10 leagues. That's what a good Captain does in my book. I don't care how many runs they make from deep or how many important goals they score.
We were already Champions and on course to dominate in England before Roy Keane even arrived at the club, and who knows if Robbo had been 10 years younger we may have gone on to win as much, if not more if he had remained Captain.
This doesn't answer my question.
That title was down to Cantona, Robson started 5 games in that first Premiership season.
Like i say, what i think of Robson is exactly how Liverpool think of Gerrard. I doubt very much that we would have been as successful with Robson because we were too reliant on him to do everything.
If we're talking about winning the league, then surely the influence of manager have to be taken into consideration.
Keane got SAF.
Robson at his best form doesn't.
I don't see why which trophies we won (or league consistency) under different managers mind, should be the main "evidence" or determinant which player is a better captain.
Keane got SAF.
Robson at his best form doesn't.
I don't see why which trophies we won (or league consistency) under different managers mind, should be the main "evidence" or determinant which player is a better captain.
As much as I like Roy Keane, he can't be classed as our greatest captain. When all said and done the captain must set an example for the other players. Certainly one of the most influencial players we've had, but captain no! I think I'd have Martin Buchan up there definately!
Robson for me and I saw both of them at their prime. Robson got me loving United and wanting to play football on a regular basis. His heart on and off the pitch was enormous. I got to meet him when I was approximately 7 years old after winning a draw at school and he spoke to me about how you should love what you do and keep doing it. He loved being at OT and he became an absolute legend in no time. Captain marvel would carry on and keep driving even when injured. I love Keano, don't get me wrong, tbf, it is a very, very difficult question however, if the tables were turned and Keano was around instead of Robbo and vice versa, I would vote for Keano. In a nutshell; I saw Robson first.
I can't believe what i've read.I know iv read that a few times wondering what the poster was smoking.
Its a bit like saying if you turned up for a game and Dong was replacing Ruud you would be confident there would be no obvious drop off
Can't comment on Robson or Cantona as before my time so Keane is clear winner for me.
Keane may be one of the most underrated United players from a technical football perspective, he sometimes seems to be seen as just a better version of John O'Shea playing CDM or a Cattermole type.
I sometimes wonder if the great talents we had, due to their youth(& fame) at the times, would have reached the levels they did if not for having Keane in the dressing room keeping things in order and demanding the effort as well as the skill.
Keane is a beligerent and aggressive character and because of that people don't like him. They don't want to see his influence or admit how important he was.
The irony is, that is exactly what made United successful through that era.
1) Let's swap their teams~
2) What ifs..
3) Which is better?
4) Dream Squad
Keane --> 1982/86 squad, surely there's going to be a lot of falling out with teammates and even the manager. Keane to be sold eventually?
Robson --> 1997/99 squad, a strong ambitious squad with matured young players. I doubt there's too big of a difference comparing with Keane except maybe... relationship with Schmeichel may be even better, and the players may even be in awe and inspired over Robson's greater abilities.
2) What ifs..
I suppose we can also talked about the 2000s and 2010s teams.
Keane admitted himself he was too hard on Veron which may backfire at times. Imagine if he lead a squad of Nani, Evans, younger DDG, etc. Even Januzaj, Martial and Depay can be sensitive at times. While I admit it's a good "filter" in a way to know who have the strong mentality and right mindset, but not many players have that and can't handle his "demands".
Highly doubt Robson would have that problem.
Leading an ambitious assembly of players eg. Rooney, Ronaldo, RVN, etc etc are easier.
Why I say this is.. even during Keane's leadership period, there were players who drop their standards eg. Yorke, even Rio still has his frequent concentration issues then (finally settled after Vidic's arrival). Keane also has soft spots for certain players, but can be too hard on some eg. Fletcher (though in turn that's beneficial to Darren but not others).
That said, it's likely Keane's styles would have good effects on Shaw, and dare I say.. Pogba. Perhaps even Lingard and Pereira.
3) Which is better?
Not saying Robson's leadership is better, because I think it's situational. Depending on which players and which situations, either Keane's or Robson's leadership may be the better approach. Keane's approach is arguably better in managing a squad of strong talents who are ambitious but once in a while lost motivations, while Robson's more leading-by-example-centric is in generally useful in any, but especially more so in leading a group of unmotivated players.
Downside of Robson's leadership is (if no support by manager or teammates) the growing over reliance by the team on solely himself as the emblem of winning. No Robson means no win, or rather lack of confidence and therefore motivations to win. Some players may even take "advantage" on not shouldering/sharing the responsibility, leaving it all to Robson, no-need-to-do-more attitudes may sprout among the players.
It depends.
4) Dream Squad
I sure love to see the squad with them both at good fitness and form leading the same squad.
Imagine Keane wouldn't mind being the vice captain to Captain Marvel.
Was Bobby Charlton the captain of the 60s United?
If he was, then I'm surprised not many have mentioned him, and that it's an argument between Robson and Keane, instead of the three of them.
If he was, then I'm surprised not many have mentioned him, and that it's an argument between Robson and Keane, instead of the three of them.
Yeah, I doubt many of us remember watching Bobby play to be honest....
I saw Bobby towards the end of his career. It was a long time ago, so I may be doing him a disservice, but I don't remember him being a forceful leader, like Roy Keane.
On the other hand, IMO, he was a very underrated player.
On the other hand, IMO, he was a very underrated player.
What Gary Neville said the other day about playing under 3 captains at Man Utd. Robson, Bruce and Keane.
'I came into the first team under Bryan Robson, Steve Bruce. These were special characters, people who had influence and power over a dressing room.'
Neville believed Keane had unparralleled leadership qualities that could not be replicated.
'Roy was the most influential person I ever saw on a football pitch and off a football field.'
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/15/gary...59398/?ITO=squid&ito=newsnow-feed?ito=cbshare
'I came into the first team under Bryan Robson, Steve Bruce. These were special characters, people who had influence and power over a dressing room.'
Neville believed Keane had unparralleled leadership qualities that could not be replicated.
'Roy was the most influential person I ever saw on a football pitch and off a football field.'
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/15/gary...59398/?ITO=squid&ito=newsnow-feed?ito=cbshare
Yeah but he's more likely to bump into Roy Keane in his everyday work, he wouldn't have dared say different
We would not have dominated the league in the way we did without Keane.He was the driving force of the team after 95.
Good luck in proving that, the club was geared up to dominate(domestically at least) whether it was Keane or somebody else as Captain.
There aren't too many Roy Keanes lying around.Look what happened in 97/98. We were flying for most of the season but lost form in the last few months.We lost Keane in September that season.
Oh right so we lost Keane in September but we didn't miss him till April, interesting, maybe he wasn't all that important after all.
I would argue that we missed him from the moment we lost him and it cost us.Of course the team was excellent but our form fell away in the run in and Arsenal overtook us.
Without looking I think it was the Monaco result on the back of Arsenal winning at Old Trafford(our 2nd defeat in 3 in the League) that did for us that season in March, not sure why but they 3 or 4 games in hand on us and in control of the League from then on, I know they also got to and won the FA Cup Final that season but they were knocked out of Europe basically before the season began so it was strange how they got that advantage. They won the last 10+ League games and that was that, not sure Roy or the numerous other players missing toward the end of the season would have made any difference.
For me it’s Roy Keane as he is literally the first person I think of when I think of a genuine captain and on the pitch leader of a team, he was basically Sir Alex on the pitch and brought the best out in his team mates.
I loved Bryan Robson and he was captain of both United and England when I began supporting United, this was at a time when the England captain was genuinely a kids hero and meant something.
Robson was a great captain and a great player but he didn’t bring out the best in his team mates or demand as much as Keane did, I realise it was a different era but for me Robson was exactly like Gerrard in that he was the main man on the pitch and would often put in a match winning performance on his own but he didn’t drag the players up with him.
Keane demanded so much from his team mates that it eventually became his downfall at United as he expected so much from players that weren’t at the level he played with beforehand but even when Steve Bruce and Cantona were there as captain you could see how much of a leader Keane was, he was a natural leader of men and if I was asked to name an all time eleven I’d put Keane is as captain.
I loved Bryan Robson and he was captain of both United and England when I began supporting United, this was at a time when the England captain was genuinely a kids hero and meant something.
Robson was a great captain and a great player but he didn’t bring out the best in his team mates or demand as much as Keane did, I realise it was a different era but for me Robson was exactly like Gerrard in that he was the main man on the pitch and would often put in a match winning performance on his own but he didn’t drag the players up with him.
Keane demanded so much from his team mates that it eventually became his downfall at United as he expected so much from players that weren’t at the level he played with beforehand but even when Steve Bruce and Cantona were there as captain you could see how much of a leader Keane was, he was a natural leader of men and if I was asked to name an all time eleven I’d put Keane is as captain.
It may be rose tinted spectacles plus it was a totally different era but Robson was a magnificent player. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but he won 90 caps for England during which he was injured for long spells. Pretty sure he'd be record cap holder for England if it wasn't for those injuries
We will have to agree to disagree.
Well for me it would be the man who 21 yrs ago was about to kick juve's arse Roy the boy Keano, Robbo lost a fair bit of respect given the attitude towards the end of his time here and given its the day also, 11 yrs ago arseshavin was about to put 4 in against pool all but ending their title hopes
Just saw this and what a boss to just snub fecking Ronaldo
21 years ago tonight. Greatest ever captains performance.