United's merits in the 2011 UCL final against Barcelona

matbezlima

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I would like to talk about United's qualities in the 2011 UCL final. We all know that it was a Barcelona masterclass and the greatest performance in a UCL final in this century, but I will not focus on this in my comment, I will focus on United.

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You can see in the whole game that United's own box when United were defending was often extremely crowded. The spaces there were very, very tight, minimal. United's defenders actually had a good match and made a good share of great tackles and interceptations of Barcelona's through balls in the entire game. All of this coupled with Barcelona, specially Pedro and Villa, not being at their sharpest in their passing and decision making, meant that Barcelona's tiki-taka, triangulations and quick one-twos inside the opponent's box, one of the most impressive things that we associate the most with Guardiola's Barcelona, were virtually non-existant in that UCL final.

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Perhaps that was exactly Ferguson's plan to contain Barcelona and it makes some sense. United was doomed to being totally dominated in midfield no matter what he did and their counter-attacks were dreadful and they never knew what to do in possession. United also didn't have a Pepe to play in midfield that could disrupt Barcelona's midfield with physicality and pressing, what Mourinho did in the series of 4 Clásicos and something that Pepe was being extremely sucessful at in all games before being sent off in the third game of the series, the UCL's first semifinal leg.

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Guardiola's teams have often received in his career criticism that they are too obssessed and dogmatic with passing the ball into the net, that they were alergic to shots outside the box. These criticisms were specially common after Barcelona's elimination against Inter. And this was a flaw of Guardiola's teams for most of his career that he perhaps fixed at City.

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Unlike Mourinho, though, Ferguson didn't really want to park the bus. Ferguson probably expected that Barcelona would just be frustrated trying and failing to tiki-taka and triangulate in United's box in the entire game because it was so unlikely for Barcelona, no matter the circunstances, to try many shots outside the box. So he only bothered to heavily crowd United's box, leaving A LOT of space on its edge for shots outside it.

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And this strategy totally backfired because Barcelona actually, and extremely atypically, wasn't afraid to shoot from outside the box at all in the game. See the game's highlights, Barcelona shot way, way, way more from outside the box than usual. Probably most of their shots were from outside the box, a fact almost alien for that team! None of Barcelona's goals were tiki-taka goals and all of them were from outside the box too. Messi's goal is a clear example of Ferguson's tactics backfiring: the players didn't try to close down Messi, they kept position and maintained the box protected and crowded, but Messi shot anyway and scored.

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What do you think about all of this? Should Ferguson have totally parked the bus like Inter did and try to win the UCL on penalties instead of only crowding the box?
 

Stobzilla

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He should have played Berbatov, with Rooney too the left of him and Nani/Valencia on the right of him. They could have been the quick outlets, we had no one too hold the ball up, Berbatov's biggest strength was that he was incredibly difficult too dispossess. I personally would have gone:

van Der Sar

Fabio - Smalling sub late on too sure it up.
Ferdinand
Vidic
Evra

Carrick
Park - Key, needs too do a man to man job on Xavi or Iniesta, in no way is that easy but he was our best chance of disrupting a midfield that was without Fletcher at peak condition. Was coming into the game on a fantastic run of form as well.
Scholes/Giggs - 45 Minutes each.

Valencia
Berbatov - Nani on late if it isn't working and we needed something, Rooney shifts too the middle
Rooney

It would have taken a massive effort to get anything, the game itself never felt like a 3-1, it was a weird feeling, Barcelona felt like they were there too be taken but at the same time we never looked like we were set up too lay anything meaningful on them, getting Berbatov the ball on Mascherano's side and picking up small fouls off of him too get us some breathing room would have been a valid strategy.
 

Morpheus 7

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United could get nowhere near them. Rio even said recently he was embarrassed. Messi ran the show and taking out Rooney's goal we were outclassed. You have to hold your hands up and recognize it. The rumours about Pep's players taking band substances must have been true earlier that season. if we played that game 10 times we would've be lucky to win more than once. The only way you could beat that team is get the Jose bus out and score first.

The ball did all the work up until the last pass. Like a good chess player, they were thinking moves ahead. Hindsight, different squad selection and tactics mean little when the opposition is in that form.

That Barca team were one of the best I've seen. United didn't turn up in the 2009 final, that's a better debate. If Fletcher wasn't suspended and we scored first with that early chance, we could've broke them on the counter attack. In the end of both finals we deserved to lose. United were very unfortunate to have peaked during that Barca side. When you look at last year's final it puts things in to context. I miss being in the champions league, United are getting better though. I don't think it will be long before we are competing again, winning it is much harder to predict.
 

Icemav

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He should have played Berbatov, with Rooney too the left of him and Nani/Valencia on the right of him. They could have been the quick outlets, we had no one too hold the ball up, Berbatov's biggest strength was that he was incredibly difficult too dispossess. I personally would have gone:

van Der Sar

Fabio - Smalling sub late on too sure it up.
Ferdinand
Vidic
Evra

Carrick
Park - Key, needs too do a man to man job on Xavi or Iniesta, in no way is that easy but he was our best chance of disrupting a midfield that was without Fletcher at peak condition. Was coming into the game on a fantastic run of form as well.
Scholes/Giggs - 45 Minutes each.

Valencia
Berbatov - Nani on late if it isn't working and we needed something, Rooney shifts too the middle
Rooney

It would have taken a massive effort to get anything, the game itself never felt like a 3-1, it was a weird feeling, Barcelona felt like they were there too be taken but at the same time we never looked like we were set up too lay anything meaningful on them, getting Berbatov the ball on Mascherano's side and picking up small fouls off of him too get us some breathing room would have been a valid strategy.
I have always thought the same thing and remember at the time being very disappointed in the team selection. No Berba and Nani meant we couldnt relieve the pressure. So in a sense I believe Fergie got this very wrong and we didnt have a chance in the match.

Thanks for your detailed analysis.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I went back and re-watched that game recently.

It was amazing how many of our players were so poor in possession in contrast. Carrick and Valencia were probably the biggest culprits.

Rooney was fairly good on the ball, but he failed all game in 'shadowing' Busquets and just made it much easier for them to monopolize the ball.

In reality though, we didn't really match up well with Pep's Barcelona at all.

-We played a 2 man central midfield(with Rooney failing to shadow Busquets) against the greatest midfield ever and a peak Messi.

-Vidic and Rio couldn't really push up to follow Messi in midfield, because of their lack of pace.

-We didn't have the wide players to punish them when we got some chances for counters. Valencia had a horrid game. I never liked Park vs Barcelona and I think it was a big mistake to not start Nani in hindsight.

-We didn't really prioritize playing out the back and it made it easy for them to press us.

-Chicharito isn't technical enough(and he had like 5-6 offside calls).

It was probably the only game ever under Sir Alex that I felt like we had no chance to win prior to the game.
 

thepolice123

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Probably one of the biggest CL final mismatch in recent times. We were not a very good side by then and had an easy run to the final.
 

Rasendori

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The rumours about Pep's players taking band substances must have been true earlier that season.
The only way you could beat that team is get the Jose bus out and score first.
Ultimately they won the Champions League, but I was very impressed with Arsenal in both legs (albeit for different reasons) against them.

I felt Arsenals midfield of Wilshere, Fabregas, and Song made very good account of themselves against Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets. Wilshere rightly got the plaudits in the first leg, yet Fabregas also made a delightful pass to RVP at the edge of the box. I could be mistaken, but I reckon it was this leg that put Song on Barca's radar, and then his terrific season in 11/12 was enough for them to pull the trigger. Arsenal didn't park the bus, had more shots on target than Barca, 47% possession compared to United's 32% in the final. Arsenal won 2-1 but it was a great game from both sides, and Messi could have scored himself with a 1v1 opportunity.

The 2nd leg will haunt Wenger forever and not just because Fabregas had a mare. Whilst the encounter was pretty much one sided in Barca's favour. It was also impressive imo that Arsenal were still leading on aggregate at the point of the controversial red card. I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger is still kicking himself that he felt forced to put on Bendnter following the dismissal of RVP. Just look at this horrendous first touch by Bendnter that could've put Arsenal through on away goals.

The contrasting emotions of Pep and Wenger is extremely powerful.

I've clearly touched briefly and some might (rightly) say simplistically on Arsenal. In any case, Barcelona were very impressive in both legs too for obvious reasons. Looking through the lens of Barcelona, I felt the 2-2 draw in 09/10 was the best showing of Barca against Arsenal in the four encounters between Pep and Wenger. That should have been a cricket score as Barca were utterly dominant. That chance though, I feel for Wenger. In any case, Arsenal came agonisingly close, and the roles could have been easily reverse with Arsenal going through and Messi regretting his opportunity in first leg. The two games were worlds apart with Arsenal not even managing a shot on target, yet, Arsenal could have got a result from being passive, as well as going toe to toe.

Edit - Forgot to mention I believe the banned substances is conjecture in my view
 

Adisa

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We scored a good goal.
Rewatched the game last month. They destroyed us.
They pulled us all over the pitch in the second half. What struck me was how relatively subdued the crowd was when Rooney scored. They knew it was temporary. You could just feel the difference in quality and that the quality side had turned up.
 

Morpheus 7

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Ultimately they won the Champions League, but I was very impressed with Arsenal in both legs (albeit for different reasons) against them.

I felt Arsenals midfield of Wilshere, Fabregas, and Song made very good account of themselves against Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets. Wilshere rightly got the plaudits in the first leg, yet Fabregas also made a delightful pass to RVP at the edge of the box. I could be mistaken, but I reckon it was this leg that put Song on Barca's radar, and then his terrific season in 11/12 was enough for them to pull the trigger. Arsenal didn't park the bus, had more shots on target than Barca, 47% possession compared to United's 32% in the final. Arsenal won 2-1 but it was a great game from both sides, and Messi could have scored himself with a 1v1 opportunity.

The 2nd leg will haunt Wenger forever and not just because Fabregas had a mare. Whilst the encounter was pretty much one sided in Barca's favour. It was also impressive imo that Arsenal were still leading on aggregate at the point of the controversial red card. I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger is still kicking himself that he felt forced to put on Bendnter following the dismissal of RVP. Just look at this horrendous first touch by Bendnter that could've put Arsenal through on away goals.

The contrasting emotions of Pep and Wenger is extremely powerful.

I've clearly touched briefly and some might (rightly) say simplistically on Arsenal. In any case, Barcelona were very impressive in both legs too for obvious reasons. Looking through the lens of Barcelona, I felt the 2-2 draw in 09/10 was the best showing of Barca against Arsenal in the four encounters between Pep and Wenger. That should have been a cricket score as Barca were utterly dominant. That chance though, I feel for Wenger. In any case, Arsenal came agonisingly close, and the roles could have been easily reverse with Arsenal going through and Messi regretting his opportunity in first leg. The two games were worlds apart with Arsenal not even managing a shot on target, yet, Arsenal could have got a result from being passive, as well as going toe to toe.

Edit - Forgot to mention I believe the banned substances is conjecture in my view
Feck Arsenal, we aren't chatting about them.
 

Sylar

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They were much better, but what annoyed me was the manner of the goals in the second half.
Messi goal was a great strike, but I seriously think VDS should have saved it. It was down the middle of the goal.
And the second was us giving the ball away on the edge of our own box (but a superb top corner strike).

I think we made a mistake going with a hybrid 442 (but I think it happened due to the way Rooney/Chicha was working in the league).
Valencia had his worst game ever for us. And we didnt afford Carrick any help in the middle. Pairing him with giggs was a mistake.

I thought we looked much better once Nani and Scholes came on, but the game was up by that point. Barca players werent really pressing Scholes and it seemed like he had all the time in the world. And Nani looked like he could beat a man on the outside or inside which was different. I thought we used Park incorrectly too. Im sure he started out wide before moving into the centre.
 

fps

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Definitely a sense that the lineup for the final wasn't quite right, and this along with a few underperformances contributed to making the win frictionless for an outstanding Barcelona team. There didn't seem to be that threat to Barcelona which was necessary however much of a threat they posed.
 

clarkydaz

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We scored a good goal.
Rewatched the game last month. They destroyed us.
They pulled us all over the pitch in the second half. What struck me was how relatively subdued the crowd was when Rooney scored. They knew it was temporary. You could just feel the difference in quality and that the quality side had turned up.
Yeah even then I was hoping we just keep the score respectable
 

El Zoido

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We scored a good goal.
Rewatched the game last month. They destroyed us.
They pulled us all over the pitch in the second half. What struck me was how relatively subdued the crowd was when Rooney scored. They knew it was temporary. You could just feel the difference in quality and that the quality side had turned up.
I don’t know how you can rewatch this stuff, I can’t. I was so deflated after that game, in a way it’s perhaps better to lose to a better team (rather than get screwed by a ref or batter them but just can’t get the ball in the net). But on the other side, it’s depressing to know you’ve been so comprehensively outclassed.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I don’t know how you can rewatch this stuff, I can’t. I was so deflated after that game, in a way it’s perhaps better to lose to a better team (rather than get screwed by a ref or batter them but just can’t get the ball in the net). But on the other side, it’s depressing to know you’ve been so comprehensively outclassed.

We can take solace in the fact that no team probably ever would have beat them that night.


Even Messi was pressing like a mad man at times that game. Says it all really. He's already unstoppable on the ball that season, but he decided to put in a shift off the ball too.

It was an impossible task.
 

meamth

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Berba should have played. It would have been different with Berba's playmaking ability with Rooney.

That's my only take, this has to be the greatest what ifs final in our finals history.
 

sullydnl

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I don't think there's much we could have changed that would have made a difference. They were a lot better than us at that point.
 

Yagami

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I definitely would've played Berbatov and Nani. At the time, they were two of our only players who could play in tight spaces and hold the ball under pressure, which was vital for playing against them.

Considering our midfield options, I would've started Anderson over Giggs, too. Especially after his performance in the semis:

 

Rasendori

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Feck Arsenal, we aren't chatting about them.
You're correct, you were chatting about Barcelona when you mentioned it was impossible to beat them without scoring first and then parking the bus a kin to Jose Mourinho.
I was trying to say Arsenal beat them without scoring first, and without parking the bus a kin to Jose Mourinho. Of course, it wasn't a final and Arsenal were knocked out.

You mentioned Rio said he was embarrassed recently. I found it interesting that Rio claims to have disagreed with Fergie's tactics at the time. That suggests to me he believes United didn't help themselves tactically. It's possible my post as a whole is both pedantic and obtuse, but that suggests to me a level of accountability from Rio's perspective.


RE: Your mention of Fletcher in 2009. For me, one thing that was disappointing about the 2009 final, apart from how Chelsea did significantly better than us was the fact when United lost, neither side were at full strength. Barca were without Alves and Abidal.
 

Sassy Colin

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I couldn't understand what I was watching.

It seemed like we had stopped playing like United and instead were running scared the whole game. Apart from the move for the Rooney goal, which was how I had sat down to watch us play at the start of the game, I didn't recognise the team.
 

Rooney in Paris

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Berba should have played. It would have been different with Berba's playmaking ability with Rooney.

That's my only take, this has to be the greatest what ifs final in our finals history.
For me, it's the exact opposite. Absolutely no doubt about the fact that we were never beating that team on that night (and no other team was).
 

MikeeMike

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Berba should have played. It would have been different with Berba's playmaking ability with Rooney.

That's my only take, this has to be the greatest what ifs final in our finals history.
Totally agree. Baffled why he did no even make the squad.

My thoughts on the game.

Fergie said he had different tactics to Rome but was completely the same, try to score first 10 minutes.
Rio and Vidic were absolutely amazing first half.
They just knew they were going to win. Our self belief was zero in my opinion..
 

Grande

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I went back and re-watched that game recently.

It was amazing how many of our players were so poor in possession in contrast. Carrick and Valencia were probably the biggest culprits.

Rooney was fairly good on the ball, but he failed all game in 'shadowing' Busquets and just made it much easier for them to monopolize the ball.

In reality though, we didn't really match up well with Pep's Barcelona at all.

-We played a 2 man central midfield(with Rooney failing to shadow Busquets) against the greatest midfield ever and a peak Messi.

-Vidic and Rio couldn't really push up to follow Messi in midfield, because of their lack of pace.

-We didn't have the wide players to punish them when we got some chances for counters. Valencia had a horrid game. I never liked Park vs Barcelona and I think it was a big mistake to not start Nani in hindsight.

-We didn't really prioritize playing out the back and it made it easy for them to press us.

-Chicharito isn't technical enough(and he had like 5-6 offside calls).

It was probably the only game ever under Sir Alex that I felt like we had no chance to win prior to the game.
I was pretty impressed we even got to that final, our third CL final in four years, because the team was weaker in almost every spot compared to 08 and 09. Through ageing (Van der Sar, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Carrick and Giggs) and through player turnover (Ronaldo, Tevez, Scholes, Hargreaves for Valencia, Chicharito). And even form, Rooney and Berbs were both looking subpar towards rhe end of that season as I recall it.

I rewatched the 09 final twice, and although we lost deservedly because they scored and we didn’t,we really we’re unlucky not to win it - we had much better control of the play than the tikitaka-enamoured spin of the day suggested.

2011 Barca were also clearly physically in their heyday, more well drilled than two years earlier, Messi were better and they had more strings to their lute with David Villa providing something different. We really didn’t stand a chance. We were experienced and shrewd enough that we could have won a final against any other top team that year, even if we weren’t necessarily Better than them. But Barca 11 was way too tall an order.
 

El Jefe

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Play any lineup or formation we want and we still lose that game 10 times out of 10. They were just so better than us and that was the peak of Pep's best Barcelona team.

We played fantastically in every game we used that midfield and front two towards the end of the season but our team was just a horrible match for Barcelona. Pep was incredibly smart to have Valencia and Hernandez neutralised as they were extremely important in our dominance in games leading up to the final. Abidal didn't give Valencia a sniff and Chicha was caught offside all game.

Berba wouldn't have done a damn thing.
 

SambaBoy

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Play any lineup or formation we want and we still lose that game 10 times out of 10. They were just so better than us and that was the peak of Pep's best Barcelona team.

We played fantastically in every game we used that midfield and front two towards the end of the season but our team was just a horrible match for Barcelona. Pep was incredibly smart to have Valencia and Hernandez neutralised as they were extremely important in our dominance in games leading up to the final. Abidal didn't give Valencia a sniff and Chicha was caught offside all game.

Berba wouldn't have done a damn thing.
Valencia went into that game in world class form and it was probably one of the worst games he played for us.
 

Tom Van Persie

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I went back and re-watched that game recently.

It was amazing how many of our players were so poor in possession in contrast. Carrick and Valencia were probably the biggest culprits.

Rooney was fairly good on the ball, but he failed all game in 'shadowing' Busquets and just made it much easier for them to monopolize the ball.

In reality though, we didn't really match up well with Pep's Barcelona at all.

-We played a 2 man central midfield(with Rooney failing to shadow Busquets) against the greatest midfield ever and a peak Messi.

-Vidic and Rio couldn't really push up to follow Messi in midfield, because of their lack of pace.

-We didn't have the wide players to punish them when we got some chances for counters. Valencia had a horrid game. I never liked Park vs Barcelona and I think it was a big mistake to not start Nani in hindsight.

-We didn't really prioritize playing out the back and it made it easy for them to press us.

-Chicharito isn't technical enough(and he had like 5-6 offside calls).

It was probably the only game ever under Sir Alex that I felt like we had no chance to win prior to the game.
This. I remember being excited and trying to be optimistic but I knew deep down we were getting beat. That Barcelona team was ridiculous.
 

groovyalbert

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Hard not to compare this with our 09 final where we were comfortably outplayed. The two seasons inbetween saw our team get weaker and their's get stronger.

I don't think there is any formation/tactic which would have seen us win the game other than Barca having a completely off-day.
 

Berbasbullet

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Valencia went into that game in world class form and it was probably one of the worst games he played for us.
Yep, he was one of the few hopes I had for us, playing well, and thought his directness would be really tough for Barca.

Nope.
 

FrankDrebin

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I know this is will be a defeatist comment but any team we put out that day would've got blasted away.
 

Adisa

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It's difficult trying to find blame or what ifs. That should have been done in 09 when imo, there wasn't much between the two sides in terms of quality and chemistry.
2011 was completely different. We were in a CL final and all I felt was dread. I can't think of any combination that wouldn't have lost that game.
 

Lay

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Chicharito's limitations really showed in that game. Couldn't hold on to the ball.
 

Offside

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Complete hindsight nonsense we should have played Berbatov. If he’d have split up Rooney and Hernandez for that final we’d all still be in a state of perplexity now.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Complete hindsight nonsense we should have played Berbatov. If he’d have split up Rooney and Hernandez for that final we’d all still be in a state of perplexity now.
I think we should have gone with one forward and packed the midfield. We needed 3 against that Barca midfield.
 

Yagami

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Berba should have played. It would have been different with Berba's playmaking ability with Rooney.

That's my only take, this has to be the greatest what ifs final in our finals history.
As others have said, I don't see many what ifs about this one.

2009 on the other hand, yeah. Our squad then was definitely good enough to compete but, unfortunately, Fergie just didn't know how to set up against them, and went too defensive. In my opinion, anyway.
 

MoskvaRed

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I don’t have any regrets about 2011. We were on the slide by then and probably would have lost to Madrid as well had the draw turned out differently. I can’t think of any combination from United’s squad that could have competed that night.

2009 on the other hand....
 

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I think we should have sat back and hit them on the counter. It’s pretty much the only way to beat that Barca side and we didn’t do it. Maybe it was too early in 2009, but by two years later Jose had given everyone the blueprint.
 

Offside

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I think we should have gone with one forward and packed the midfield. We needed 3 against that Barca midfield.
I can’t disagree in hindsight but Giggs, Park, Carrick and Valencia with Rooney and Hernandez was working so well we obviously just stuck with it.

The problem isn’t what we did on the day it’s what we did in the prior 2 Summer windows which was not spend money on the midfield which is exactly where we lost the game 2 years before. In that game we packed the midfield and had 1 upfront and the guy upfront was Ronaldo and we still lost. You could argue Fergie thought trying 2 upfront would harm them better and it did - Rooney’s goal was great.