Same here but I can't really see us being able to invest the money in a smart way now. If we end up with such an amount of money, we will be taken to the cleaners. Which is also something, we don't want to see. We fecked up early on when the option arose the first time.I agree about the state of the midfield mate, and it's nice to see someone pointing out that even playing Bruno in a three is a vulnerable midfield. He's a luxury player who either works in a defensively setup counter attacking team (Ole) or a very solid team that has few weaknesses and he can just do as he pleases without it causing unintended damage.
What I took issue with was Silva coming out after the match as if he had achieved something. And I thought it was poor from Slot when he did it. You can look at it as advice, but I wouldn't like to see Amorim talk about how such and such a team have a glaring weakness that you obviously exploit. It lacks class. If that is what is required for the club hierarchy to wake up and realise we don't have a midfield they are more clueless than even the most pessimistic on here assume.
I just hope that they realise that it is better to get in the red now and raise the floor of the team than it is to maybe pay on better terms next summer (which is not a given) and ensure that the other new signings get the best platform to become successful here. We cannot afford for them to be swallowed up by the malaise.
And to that end, I would love to see them accept a Saudi bid for Bruno.
Get Agoume then we aren't being taken to cleanersSame here but I can't really see us being able to invest the money in a smart way now. If we end up with such an amount of money, we will be taken to the cleaners. Which is also something, we don't want to see. We fecked up early on when the option arose the first time.
I agree to both posts btw, and also the one from @appleman
Same here but I can't really see us being able to invest the money in a smart way now. If we end up with such an amount of money, we will be taken to the cleaners. Which is also something, we don't want to see. We fecked up early on when the option arose the first time.
I agree to both posts btw, and also the one from @appleman
Bruno isn’t leaving until next summer at earliestWhatever we can get for Bruno I'd be fine with paying for either Baleba or Wharton. Basically, if I could swap him for either I'd feel like we solved one problem and half solved another.
Hackney is so bloody obvious. So frustrating.Get Agoume then we aren't being taken to cleaners
Have seen him described as slow too, what happened to that Ipswich moved which looked on cardsHackney is so bloody obvious. So frustrating.
Well would be nice to at least actually find outIt doesn't matter if Wharton and Baleba arrived, Amorim seems set on fitting Bruno, Cunha and Mbeumo in the team in the current formation, which means Bruno in the pivot. Only someone like fully fit Rodri or peak Kante could possibly cover Bruno, but even then it would be a struggle. On a road to no town the way it's going and it's not even a recruitment issue, it's a selection one.
He turned it down because he knows he’s better than that. And he’s plenty mobile for the PL. Odd that no one’s snapped him up yet. I’m sure someone else will though and we’ll regret not going for him as per.Have seen him described as slow too, what happened to that Ipswich moved which looked on cards
Yeah surely someone will try for him before deadlineHe turned it down because he knows he’s better than that. And he’s plenty mobile for the PL. Odd that no one’s snapped him up yet. I’m sure someone else will though and we’ll regret not going for him as per.
Can see that working out but I personally wouldnt go that way. Neither of those players is worth so much money and I hope we have finally moved away from dumb moves that are barely rectified by "we were really really desperate". It is a bad situation to be in. But I am not under the impression that just adding one really good midfielder will do too much in the shortterm.Whatever we can get for Bruno I'd be fine with paying for either Baleba or Wharton. Basically, if I could swap him for either I'd feel like we solved one problem and half solved another.
But changing the formation isn't the only way to deal with stuff like that. Opponents can only exploit space that is there. So if we keep it tighter, move better synchronized as a team, we'll be better off. Space will pop up playing any formation out there. It is completely pointless to look for a formation where that doesn't happen. Players are in motion, motion leads to counter motion and then spaces will appear. For AND against us.Alex Iwobi to Sky: "We knew that we would be able to get behind their two midfielders and that their centre-backs would want to jump - we exploited that today."
When we lose the ball, the lack of composure in the midfield (whether it’s bad positioning, risky challenges, lack of recovery pace, or just plain bad instincts by Bruno) will be grounds for the opposition to hunt us down. Has happened, continues to happen, will happen again. Only successful pressing can mitigate this weakness, but it’s unsustainable. On top of that, I didn’t see our center backs jumping in.
On the ball, it’s so perplexing Amorim does not see the reason we still can’t progress the ball through the middle of the pitch is because we’re outnumbered. Every good side I watch builds through the midfield. This team is crying for that extra midfielder. Wingback play is not even that great, so choosing to do it this way is like shooting yourself in the foot twice. More so, our forwards have to track way back, and then have to travel 60 yards to get into danger areas again.
I haven’t reached panic mode, but I’m close. Get the extra midfielder or we’re fecked.
Lammens
Mazraoui Yoro de Ligt Shaw
Mainoo Ugarte
Mbeumo Bruno Cunha
Sesko
Rotate in Amad (he’s lost at wingback), Mount, Maguire and Dalot.
Don't know too much about him but if the profile is right, I wouldn't be against it. But one midfielder won't suffice. We need at least one starter RIGHT NOW. Better would be two. If we would get rid of Bruno, we are talking two starters, better three. I have a bad feeling with that since I don't know whether we have done enough scouting to do that. As I don't want to bring in players for the sake of it, I need the right players for the right roles.Get Agoume then we aren't being taken to cleaners
Can see that working out but I personally wouldnt go that way. Neither of those players is worth so much money and I hope we have finally moved away from dumb moves that are barely rectified by "we were really really desperate". It is a bad situation to be in. But I am not under the impression that just adding one really good midfielder will do too much in the shortterm.
Im not talking about formation- Im talking about having balance. The midfield is both thin in numbers and thin structurally. We’re missing a building block going forward and going backwards.But changing the formation isn't the only way to deal with stuff like that. Opponents can only exploit space that is there. So if we keep it tighter, move better synchronized as a team, we'll be better off. Space will pop up playing any formation out there. It is completely pointless to look for a formation where that doesn't happen. Players are in motion, motion leads to counter motion and then spaces will appear. For AND against us.
Reminds me of when Deeney talked about targeting FredAlex Iwobi to Sky: "We knew that we would be able to get behind their two midfielders and that their centre-backs would want to jump - we exploited that today."
When we lose the ball, the lack of composure in the midfield (whether it’s bad positioning, risky challenges, lack of recovery pace, or just plain bad instincts by Bruno) will be grounds for the opposition to hunt us down. Has happened, continues to happen, will happen again. Only successful pressing can mitigate this weakness, but it’s unsustainable. On top of that, I didn’t see our center backs jumping in.
On the ball, it’s so perplexing Amorim does not see the reason we still can’t progress the ball through the middle of the pitch is because we’re outnumbered. Every good side I watch builds through the midfield. This team is crying for that extra midfielder. Wingback play is not even that great, so choosing to do it this way is like shooting yourself in the foot twice. More so, our forwards have to track way back, and then have to travel 60 yards to get into danger areas again.
I haven’t reached panic mode, but I’m close. Get the extra midfielder or we’re fecked.
Lammens
Mazraoui Yoro de Ligt Shaw
Mainoo Ugarte
Mbeumo Bruno Cunha
Sesko
Rotate in Amad (he’s lost at wingback), Mount, Maguire and Dalot.
Silva also said his plan was to overload with 3 mids plus Iwobi.Alex Iwobi to Sky: "We knew that we would be able to get behind their two midfielders and that their centre-backs would want to jump - we exploited that today."
When we lose the ball, the lack of composure in the midfield (whether it’s bad positioning, risky challenges, lack of recovery pace, or just plain bad instincts by Bruno) will be grounds for the opposition to hunt us down. Has happened, continues to happen, will happen again. Only successful pressing can mitigate this weakness, but it’s unsustainable. On top of that, I didn’t see our center backs jumping in.
On the ball, it’s so perplexing Amorim does not see the reason we still can’t progress the ball through the middle of the pitch is because we’re outnumbered. Every good side I watch builds through the midfield. This team is crying for that extra midfielder. Wingback play is not even that great, so choosing to do it this way is like shooting yourself in the foot twice. More so, our forwards have to track way back, and then have to travel 60 yards to get into danger areas again.
I haven’t reached panic mode, but I’m close. Get the extra midfielder or we’re fecked.
Lammens
Mazraoui Yoro de Ligt Shaw
Mainoo Ugarte
Mbeumo Bruno Cunha
Sesko
Rotate in Amad (he’s lost at wingback), Mount, Maguire and Dalot.
Are we sure we want to look towards Chelsea in terms of sensible transfers? And even if: while they probably don't regret Caicedo, they might regret Enzo, don't you think? I like both Baleba and Wharton. I'd be ready to pay up for both of them. But everything higher than 70-80 doesn't feel right to me. I'll stick with that. I just don't think, in the position we are in, we should be taking these kind of risks. But I don't claim that position to more right than anybody elses.You think Chelsea regret buying Caicedo? I think Baleba is of that level. The only doubt about Wharton is fitness issues, and hopefully he's through that now. But if ever there was a Carrick regen, he is it. We are not in a position to develop players. And as we have seen, the favourites always play. I don't think going after Baleba or Wharton would be dumb, but I think Brighton would be dumb to sell for 70-80m. Maybe Palace are more strapped for cash.
But the thing you quoted was about exploiting space. And you don't need to change formation to rectify that. On the contrary, every formation will have its own challenges in terms of space. Space is best dealt with with workrate, awareness and mobility. And a good tactical knowledge probably helps as well. The space Iwobi talks about is there because the midfielders push up in an effort to support the press while the defense is too slow or too timid to push up to close the gaps. The exact same issue as with ETH in a 4atb formation.Im not talking about formation- Im talking about having balance. The midfield is both thin in numbers and thin structurally. We’re missing a building block going forward and going backwards.
Which is probably why Mount played very close to our midfield players as well and the wingbacks were rather narrow.Silva also said his plan was to overload with 3 mids plus Iwobi.
Ironic. Since Bruno is part of the midfield and in terms of bodily constitution probably the weakest member of it. After letting go of Eriksen.I dont think the issue is Bruno, yesterday was tactics and a weak midfield being overloaded.
Bruno will look very weak in a 2 man midfield vs a 4 man midfield. Adding Mount doesnt mitigate that.Which is probably why Mount played very close to our midfield players as well and the wingbacks were rather narrow.
Ironic. Since Bruno is part of the midfield and in terms of bodily constitution probably the weakest member of it. After letting go of Eriksen.
No, Bruno looks weak because he is weak. Changing his partner (or adding some) doesn't provide him with more body mass or muscles. The whole idea of him or the midfield being outnumbered because of "the system" is oversimplified stuff. Of course we could place 3 workhorses around him and will look more stable but at the expense of other players. Why waive the chance to play other players instead of workhorses only to make a player work in a position he isn't suited for. The current formation has positions he can naturally play in. Even two of them. Play him there or don't play him at all. 92,5% of the issue solved.Bruno will look very weak in a 2 man midfield vs a 4 man midfield. Adding Mount doesnt mitigate that.
Put Baleba, Mainoo or Wharton in the same situation alongside Casemiro or Ugarte and the same problem exists.
A good midfield needs defensive awareness and press resistance (6), dribbling, tempo control and creativity (8), and playmaking and attacking virtues (10). But that’s 3 players. Amorim insists playing with two, which is why Baleba is the one he wants and needs.What would be your top 3 midfielders to rebuild our midfield, for example players that could be available: Camavinga, Baleba, Stiller, Wharton, Hjulmand, Ederson. And who do you consider better to partner not Bruno (his best position is as a 10), but Mainoo?
Is 18yr old King or Lukic stronger than Bruno?No Bruno looks weak because he is weak. Changing is partner doesn't provide him with more body mass or muscles. The whole idea of him or the midfield being outnumbered because of "the system" is oversimplified stuff. Of course we could place 3 workhorses around him and will look more stable but at the expense of other players. Why waive the chance to play other players instead of workhorses only to make a player work in a position he isn't suited for. The current formation has positions he can naturally play in. Even two of them.
The problem is we can't get either this window, so feel we need to add athletic CM for around £40m-£50mA good midfield needs defensive awareness and press resistance (6), dribbling, tempo control and creativity (8), and playmaking and attacking virtues (10). But that’s 3 players. Amorim insists playing with two, which is why Baleba is the one he wants and needs.
Mainoo worked best with two other midfielders, but in the absence of that, a press resistant and engine like Baleba, to cover what he can’t, is the logical must.
But I still prefer 3 midfielders. A trio of Baleba, Stiller and Mainoo would be amazing to watch.
Probably and yes.Is 18yr old King or Lukic stronger than Bruno?
I don't know.Is Tete stronger than Dorgu?
Of course it is. But it is also on show when it is 3v3 or 2v2. It doesn't matter. He turns more and more into a pushover. I admire his determination sometimes but he is constantly just pushed aside these days. Bruno isn't your averagely strong midfielder bound to look bad in a poorly-balanced midfield unit. He is a rather weak midfielder who would require others to step in for him. As said multiple times - a well functioning team has probably no issues to balance out a player like him but we aren't such a team. And since we are trying to make it work with him and with Casemiro at the same time and an intense pressure focused approach for good measure, we suck. Because it is too much.Of course Bruno’s lack of physicality is going to be on show when he is against 4 players in midfield.
Have you just forgotten that our 3-4-3 has not only one but two 10ish players playing behind the striker?A good midfield needs defensive awareness and press resistance (6), dribbling, tempo control and creativity (8), and playmaking and attacking virtues (10). But that’s 3 players. Amorim insists playing with two, which is why Baleba is the one he wants and needs.
Mainoo worked best with two other midfielders, but in the absence of that, a press resistant and engine like Baleba, to cover what he can’t (which in my mind is not ideal), is the logical must.
But I still prefer 3 midfielders. A trio of Baleba, Stiller and Mainoo would be amazing to watch.
All those options are allrounders. Onana, Kamara, McGinn, Guimares, Ramsey, Joelinton, Tonali, heck even Willock - they all are good to very good alrounders. Not even starting with Henderson, Fabinho and Wijnaldum back in the day. The option we have aren't allrounders since they all have aspects of their game where they are severly underpar. Only exception being Mainoo who is very inexperienced and lacked the workrate in the past.The notion that we need a brilliant midfield to compete , is such a lazy argument. Klopps midfield was a collective unit with no creative ones. Villa and Newcastle currently play with average midfielders.
Ruben is caught between married to his formation and not playing the midfield options he has.
We can’t blow £40m-£50m on a player that isn’t Prem tested. We can’t mess this up. If that fails we forgo our ability to rebuild the midfield the way it needs to be.The problem is we can't get either this window, so feel we need to add athletic CM for around £40m-£50m
Agree. Playing Bruno out of position precludes playing true midfielders and Bruno at his best. Two wrongs don’t make one right.The notion that we need a brilliant midfield to compete , is such a lazy argument. Klopps midfield was a collective unit with no creative ones. Villa and Newcastle currently play with average midfielders.
Ruben is caught between married to his formation and not playing the midfield options he has.
Simply put IF we had pushed Bruno to accept offer could have got Baleba with that money, still got the other signings and a Stiller/Wharton when selling Garnacho. Heck if we had Europa win maybe even got a proper RWB too.The club seems to have some plans but not much re building the squad. I dont know why we went and buy two 10s and one forward and still neglect the midfield esp one of the 2 MF is Bruno. It reallt suicidal as we seena before even in 3 MFs we still looks vulnerable. We try too hard to be the goodboy image in the sport world where much wont be achieved.
If we want to be successful in the future as we rebuilding again, we have to at least looks successful now. Sometimes we just have to take the hits and get everyones we need in and let the team plays it put rather keep waiting for another pieces next summer, ending up middle/lower table again. Its going to impact our next summer targets. Looks no further than Chelsea, even in their total rebuidling, they still get to top 4. If we stuck with Bruno this season then atleast go and buy someone that can cover vast areas of MF space, formidable in defends and let Bruno be his own chaotic self.
Feels like there's been a strange collective delusion over the summer that we can get by without a functional midfield, and as long as we have a bunch of attacking players on the pitch, the goals will naturally come. That's just not how the PL works.The club seems to have some plans but not much re building the squad. I dont know why we went and buy two 10s and one forward and still neglect the midfield esp one of the 2 MF is Bruno. It reallt suicidal as we seena before even in 3 MFs we still looks vulnerable. We try too hard to be the goodboy image in the sport world where much wont be achieved.
If we want to be successful in the future as we rebuilding again, we have to at least looks successful now. Sometimes we just have to take the hits and get everyones we need in and let the team plays it put rather keep waiting for another pieces next summer, ending up middle/lower table again. Its going to impact our next summer targets. Looks no further than Chelsea, even in their total rebuidling, they still get to top 4. If we stuck with Bruno this season then atleast go and buy someone that can cover vast areas of MF space, formidable in defends and let Bruno be his own chaotic self.
I never thought we could get byFeels like there's been a strange collective delusion over the summer that we can get by without a functional midfield, and as long as we have a bunch of attacking players on the pitch, the goals will naturally come. That's just not how the PL works.
