United's midfield woes 2025-2026

So people just take it as guaranteed it was our decision to keep Bruno? He didn't want to go to Saudi at this stage of his career, not really like Amorim had to talk him out of it.
If he wanted to go we would sell. He didn't so we were more than happy to keep him, why wouldn't we be? Should we try and force him out?
 
Midfield is the most important position right now. We don't have any great aspirations for next season. EL/CL places will be expected but we should have enough goals in the team with Mbuemo and Cunha along with the rest of our forward options to achieve that.

Our biggest issue now is that the midfield is dysfunctional and will get overwhelmed. That needs to be fixed. Onana making the occasional mess of a game isn't going to dictate the direction of our season. Not having a midfield that can compete with the rest of the league will.
 
Midfield is the most important position right now. We don't have any great aspirations for next season. EL/CL places will be expected but we should have enough goals in the team with Mbuemo and Cunha along with the rest of our forward options to achieve that.

Our biggest issue now is that the midfield is dysfunctional and will get overwhelmed. That needs to be fixed. Onana making the occasional mess of a game isn't going to dictate the direction of our season. Not having a midfield that can compete with the rest of the league will.

Is that expected though. I'd say right now there are seven teams that look better than us, and we wouldn't have to slip very much to be threatened by several more. Me, I think comfortably top 10 is a reasonable expectation. I'll consider it an above-expected season if we qualify for Europe, including Conference League. And I won't be greatly surprised if we drop into the bottom half. But I will be hugely surprised if we seriously compete for top 4. We are not remotely close to Liverpool, City, Arsenal or Chelsea unless something truly transformative develops.
 
Is that expected though. I'd say right now there are seven teams that look better than us, and we wouldn't have to slip very much to be threatened by several more. Me, I think comfortably top 10 is a reasonable expectation. I'll consider it an above-expected season if we qualify for Europe, including Conference League. And I won't be greatly surprised if we drop into the bottom half. But I will be hugely surprised if we seriously compete for top 4. We are not remotely close to Liverpool, City, Arsenal or Chelsea unless something truly transformative develops.
It isn't, but there are people on here who think we'll sack Amorim if we don't make top 6. The club leadership are likely more realistic than that. If we show enough improvement and finish top half he'll probably be fine.

Their expectations might change depending on whether we sign anyone else this window, but even then it'll probably be late on. At the moment we just don't have the squad to realistically compete. We'd need several youngsters to seriously step up, and for players we signed last year like Yoro, Zirkzee and Ugarte to quicky find another gear or 2.

It might happen, but it's an awful lot of luck to wish for.
 
It isn't, but there are people on here who think we'll sack Amorim if we don't make top 6. The club leadership are likely more realistic than that. If we show enough improvement and finish top half he'll probably be fine.

Their expectations might change depending on whether we sign anyone else this window, but even then it'll probably be late on. At the moment we just don't have the squad to realistically compete. We'd need several youngsters to seriously step up, and for players we signed last year like Yoro, Zirkzee and Ugarte to quicky find another gear or 2.

It might happen, but it's an awful lot of luck to wish for.
Spot on. If the new signings deliver the goods the 10s look like an area of strength, but literally every other area is either a weakness (striker, CM) or full of question marks, with the downsides decidedly easier to spot than the upsides (Goal, CBs, wing backs). It doesn't seem likely that the probabilities of all that fall down on the positive side. European football for nearly half the remaining league might help a bit though.
 
Is anyone confident that we have taken steps to ensure that a team like Southampton will not come to Old Trafford and completely outplay us as they did in January? We won that game eventually by having superior attacking quality in Amad, who got a late hat-trick. Cunha and Mbuemo would probably ensure that we will probably again win the game. But what has changed that will make it less likely that they will pass circles and run straight through us if we played again today? And on another day, they might actually get what they deserve from the match.

That was the worst team in the league, on our patch, registering shot after shot against us, running right through the centre of our team, exposing our wide centre halves. It was probably the best individual example that told me that Amorim’s nonsense is completely doomed. We’ve had similar games against also relegated Leicester under him too. Once the competition starts getting a little better - the likes of Forest, Wolves, Bournemouth - we probably already start ceding our title of ‘favourites’, and that is before we even step up to the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal. This is not sustainable at all.
 
It seems a complicated scenario to resolve. Potentially, a big part of our problems may lie with Bruno. And, before anyone starts, he has been our best player. He could potentially be an amazing player in an amazing side. But, it is more the way he plays, or perhaps feels he has to play.

The great thing about him is that he demands the ball. He doesn't shy away from the challenge. But, the other players seem to pass the buck to him. Feel that he will be the man to make things happen, and they are simply pawns to try and keep the engine ticking. Bruno will try and cover every blade of grass to get the ball, and his team mates will look to find him. And, when he does have the ball, at best his team mates will run away from the ball, and hope he will just launch a quarterback pass into their path. Which is hard to do, especially when the opposition know that is what is coming. But, as he is running all over the pitch, none of the other players will instinctively know where he is. They often need to take a touch, look up, find him, process the info and play the ball. Often, by the time they do, Bruno is marked or they've been tackled.

Possibly my favourite player ever was Scholes, obviously brilliant. But, he never ran all over the pitch. He would be in that midfield role, and his team mates always knew where he'd be. He'd often play a simple sideways ball, and follow the ball so that his team mate he passed to has at least an easy option back to him. If he got it, he could then turn and switch the ball long, the simple movement before creating space in other areas of the pitch. He kept his position on the pitch brilliantly, and obviously had great players all around him he could trust to do their jobs, and he focused on his.

I'm desperately hoping that now we have Cunha and Mbeumo, two players who also look confident in receiving and caring for the ball, that we spread the load from just being on Bruno, to at least 3 quality players. And that will create space for the younger, faster players around them. The holding players are still a concern, and it will be interesting how he plays Bruno, Cunha and Mbeumo in the same 11. Will he have Bruno in the deep role and the others in the No 10 roles in games, in other games perhaps stick Mbeuno up top with the other 2 in the No. 10? Can't see any of them being out wide, in his wing back roles.

I do have some positivity that, if those 3 players keep fit (or at least 2 out of 3 at any given time), it should help us massively in attack compared to previous seasons. But, I do really think it will need Bruno to be disciplined, and I hope he doesn't have an ego that means that he is always trying to be the main man on the pitch every game. He needs to start trusting his team mates, and of course his team mates need to stand up and earn that trust.
 
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Do you really think the issue to discuss about Uniteds midfield is why we didn't sell the only really good player on a team that finished 15th? Seriously? This is absurd.

If he is going to play in midfield ... how many boxes does he tick from the qualities you want from a central midfielder? If it's not enough, it is far from absurd to sell a player who is not a good fit in midfield in order to buy players who would be much better fits for the team.
 
Is anyone confident that we have taken steps to ensure that a team like Southampton will not come to Old Trafford and completely outplay us as they did in January? We won that game eventually by having superior attacking quality in Amad, who got a late hat-trick. Cunha and Mbuemo would probably ensure that we will probably again win the game. But what has changed that will make it less likely that they will pass circles and run straight through us if we played again today? And on another day, they might actually get what they deserve from the match.

That was the worst team in the league, on our patch, registering shot after shot against us, running right through the centre of our team, exposing our wide centre halves. It was probably the best individual example that told me that Amorim’s nonsense is completely doomed. We’ve had similar games against also relegated Leicester under him too. Once the competition starts getting a little better - the likes of Forest, Wolves, Bournemouth - we probably already start ceding our title of ‘favourites’, and that is before we even step up to the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal. This is not sustainable at all.
The only way to mitigate against our midfield issues really is to sit deep and compact and then play direct on the break. Something I thought we were planning to move away from under INEOS. Even then, we are likely to be picked off by any team who beats any sort of initial press should we try it. Hard to be optimistic when looking at the squad and manager's plans.
 
Is that expected though. I'd say right now there are seven teams that look better than us, and we wouldn't have to slip very much to be threatened by several more. Me, I think comfortably top 10 is a reasonable expectation. I'll consider it an above-expected season if we qualify for Europe, including Conference League. And I won't be greatly surprised if we drop into the bottom half. But I will be hugely surprised if we seriously compete for top 4. We are not remotely close to Liverpool, City, Arsenal or Chelsea unless something truly transformative develops.
See, that's the thing though. We don't have to compete with any of these teams next season to achieve a top 5/6 finish. If we manage to accumulate more points than the likes of Newcastle, Villa, Spurs etc. we will get into the Champions League or at least into the Europa League again.

All three of the teams mentioned are competing in Europe as well, while we play one game per week. We've seen in the past, that this can have a massive effect on a team's league performance. Newcastle and Villa are also having pretty bad transfer windows right now, with Newcastle about to lose their best player and we might still poach Watkins off Villa too. Spurs finished even lower than us in the league last season and haven't done anything of note either to make up too much ground.

Frankly, under these circumstances, Amorim has to achieve top 6. Anything else would be a failure and he'll be gone come next summer.


edit; and in regards to the midfield. Make due with what we have this season, with Bruno+Ugarte hopefully first choice and maybe Mainoo seeing some growth again. Finish top 5/6 and go all out for Baleba+Wharton next summer for however much it will cost and these "midfield woes" will be forgotten for the foreseeable.
 
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See, that's the thing though. We don't have to compete with any of these teams next season to achieve a top 5/6 finish. If we manage to accumulate more points than the likes of Newcastle, Villa, Spurs etc. we will get into the Champions League or at least into the Europa League again.

All three of the teams mentioned are competing in Europe as well, while we play one game per week. We've seen in the past, that this can have a massive effect on a team's league performance. Newcastle and Villa are also having pretty bad transfer windows right now, with Newcastle about to lose their best player and we might still poach Watkins off Villa too. Spurs finished even lower than us in the league last season and haven't done anything of note either to make up too much ground.

Frankly, under these circumstances, Amorim has to achieve top 6. Anything else would be a failure and he'll be gone come next summer.


edit; and in regards to the midfield. Make due with what we have this season, with Bruno+Ugarte hopefully first choice and maybe Mainoo seeing some growth again. Finish top 5/6 and go all out for Baleba+Wharton next summer for however much it will cost and these "midfield woes" will be forgotten for the foreseeable.
How exactly do we go all out for them two when money is so tight even IF we manage to make Europa
 
I really believe that Bruno will prove people wrong next season. I completely get the criticism of his style of play at times in the past, but last season I saw a marked change in his discipline and he played a much more sensible game from CM many times. And the positive now is that he doesn’t need to try to cover every inch of the pitch so much, as he can feed Cunha and Mbeumo and they will do their job. He’s not had that option for many years and we’ve relied heavily on him.

Last season I felt he played more like what we’d want from a CM when played there, he was good at keeping possession, he circulated well, he defended well, he supported well when he needed to. He was fantastic in our final game there. I feel like prone have preconceived ideas of what he is now, and they don’t actually watch the good things that he does and the changes he’s made to his game. But I think there will be a bit of a lightbulb moment next season for a lot of fans, if he continues how he did last season, where they acknowledge that he’s turned into the player we wanted when we criticised him (less wasteful, playing a smarter game, more possession oriented etc).
 
The only way to mitigate against our midfield issues really is to sit deep and compact and then play direct on the break. Something I thought we were planning to move away from under INEOS. Even then, we are likely to be picked off by any team who beats any sort of initial press should we try it. Hard to be optimistic when looking at the squad and manager's plans.
You're correct, and it does seem we will be playing in a similar manner again and then we'll here about how we dont have the data analytics to help our recruitment.

INEOS have made the situation worse with the Ugarte signing who just isn't a fit for a team that wants to play a more proactive attacking brand of football in a higher defensive line. Signing him made absolutely no sense because his qualities as a player are best utilised without the ball and even then he's not someone who can dominate larger spaces in a higher line against the opponents transition.

Had they spent the Ugarte/Zirkzee money with a real plan on implementing a proactive attacking approach, then we'd be far better off. But instead they've made a bit of a mess and will need to find a fix before the window closes or people should walk from their positions from within the football structure.
 
People obsessed with cf signings, not sure the right one is even out there for us now....even so a striker needs chances and the 10s need to be supplied and the defence needs to be protected.

Not signing a CF this summer with what is out there and other options we have isnt a disaster and didnt think I would say that.

Not making a quality midfield signing almost certainly is a disaster as bar Kone breaking through or Ugarte massively improvin we will be stagnant moving the ball out and often over ran when attacked.

If we can make a quality cm and gk addition, I feel it can actually be the different between pushing for CL places or another bottom half finish, a striker signings really isnt as important
 
feel like we have plenty of numbers for CM, just quality prob not where we need it to be. With the limited games though bruno/casemiro/ugarte plus the younger guys like mainoo/kone/collyer will prob be enough to hold out. Then add whatever the hell mount is. Quality wise i dont really love much of that but guess just gotta hope and pray this year it holds.
 
You're correct, and it does seem we will be playing in a similar manner again and then we'll here about how we dont have the data analytics to help our recruitment.

INEOS have made the situation worse with the Ugarte signing who just isn't a fit for a team that wants to play a more proactive attacking brand of football in a higher defensive line. Signing him made absolutely no sense because his qualities as a player are best utilised without the ball and even then he's not someone who can dominate larger spaces in a higher line against the opponents transition.

Had they spent the Ugarte/Zirkzee money with a real plan on implementing a proactive attacking approach, then we'd be far better off. But instead they've made a bit of a mess and will need to find a fix before the window closes or people should walk from their positions from within the football structure.
Think the chances of people walking from their positions in the football structure is pretty much zero even if we don't get those three positions
 
People obsessed with cf signings, not sure the right one is even out there for us now....even so a striker needs chances and the 10s need to be supplied and the defence needs to be protected.

Not signing a CF this summer with what is out there and other options we have isnt a disaster and didnt think I would say that.

Not making a quality midfield signing almost certainly is a disaster as bar Kone breaking through or Ugarte massively improvin we will be stagnant moving the ball out and often over ran when attacked.

If we can make a quality cm and gk addition, I feel it can actually be the different between pushing for CL places or another bottom half finish, a striker signings really isnt as important
Who is that quality CM though, there has been zero links outside of Ederson since window opened
 
Is anyone confident that we have taken steps to ensure that a team like Southampton will not come to Old Trafford and completely outplay us as they did in January? We won that game eventually by having superior attacking quality in Amad, who got a late hat-trick. Cunha and Mbuemo would probably ensure that we will probably again win the game. But what has changed that will make it less likely that they will pass circles and run straight through us if we played again today? And on another day, they might actually get what they deserve from the match.

That was the worst team in the league, on our patch, registering shot after shot against us, running right through the centre of our team, exposing our wide centre halves. It was probably the best individual example that told me that Amorim’s nonsense is completely doomed. We’ve had similar games against also relegated Leicester under him too. Once the competition starts getting a little better - the likes of Forest, Wolves, Bournemouth - we probably already start ceding our title of ‘favourites’, and that is before we even step up to the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal. This is not sustainable at all.
Our midfield will be as poor as last season. Casemiro will find it even harder to cope with the pace.
 
Our midfield will be as poor as last season. Casemiro will find it even harder to cope with the pace.
That's why I don't get why we didn't prioritise CM over a Striker when the profiles there don't fit the system
 
See, that's the thing though. We don't have to compete with any of these teams next season to achieve a top 5/6 finish. If we manage to accumulate more points than the likes of Newcastle, Villa, Spurs etc. we will get into the Champions League or at least into the Europa League again.

All three of the teams mentioned are competing in Europe as well, while we play one game per week. We've seen in the past, that this can have a massive effect on a team's league performance. Newcastle and Villa are also having pretty bad transfer windows right now, with Newcastle about to lose their best player and we might still poach Watkins off Villa too. Spurs finished even lower than us in the league last season and haven't done anything of note either to make up too much ground.

Frankly, under these circumstances, Amorim has to achieve top 6. Anything else would be a failure and he'll be gone come next summer.


edit; and in regards to the midfield. Make due with what we have this season, with Bruno+Ugarte hopefully first choice and maybe Mainoo seeing some growth again. Finish top 5/6 and go all out for Baleba+Wharton next summer for however much it will cost and these "midfield woes" will be forgotten for the foreseeable.
Villa and Newcastle don't need good windows to finish above us - they are already much better teams than we are. Europe isn't going to matter THAT much. And Spurs I think are actually in pretty good shape, given a saner playing style and fewer injuries. You seem to forget we're a team who barely won points against teams above the relegation zone last season. 6th would be a very strong achievement, not something to be confidently expected.
 
We will finish chances better than this season. With goals we'll be ahead in games and teams will actually be scared of us at times. All makes life easier for Bruno and Casemiro
 
Think the chances of people walking from their positions in the football structure is pretty much zero even if we don't get those three positions
Maybe not walk away but should be pushed out. You can't be as stupid as they have been for two summer windows on the bounce and still expect to be in jobs. I think it's Wilcox for me who should be under heavy scrutiny.

And it's not three positions but only one position in central midfield which is of immediate need. And that midfield addition needs to have certain attributes to raise the level in central midfield where can then carry a build up threat centrally.
 
We will finish chances better than this season. With goals we'll be ahead in games and teams will actually be scared of us at times. All makes life easier for Bruno and Casemiro
Admire the optimism but our midfield isn’t up to scratch
 
Maybe not walk away but should be pushed out. You can't be as stupid as they have been for two summer windows on the bounce and still expect to be in jobs. I think it's Wilcox for me who should be under heavy scrutiny.

And it's not three positions but only one position in central midfield which is of immediate need. And that midfield addition needs to have certain attributes to raise the level in central midfield where can carry a build up threat centrally.
I do wonder if Ruben is looking for that kind of CM who is involved in building up the play centrally
 
I do wonder if Ruben is looking for that kind of CM who is involved in building up the play centrally
I don't believe he's looking for a midfield tempo dictator from deep and not many coaches look to play like that either due to it being difficult to find the right players to play in that that style, along with the oppositions coordinated high pressing tactics which close off the space so quick it's highly risky to attempt to dictate play.

What alot of the coaches are looking for in midfield with a view to playing more attacking football is to sign players who can retain possession, pass the ball vertically at a high level and win duels in a higher line when the space opens up. So it's about implementing your own game on the opposition by getting the ball forward quickly and efficiently to the forwards from the first two lines and then pushing forward to close off the space in a higher line. So you need players who are not only technically capable as far as retaining possession and carrying a vertical passing threat but also have the athleticism to at the very least contain transitions. This problem still exists in the team.
 
If the club had the bollocks to tell Casemiro he will be an occasional ‘impact’ sub next season, then I am sure he would go to the Saudi league and we would get a 20/25 mill transfer for him. This would be enough to bring in Hackney, who looks like he could go the Wharton route and Kone could also be given game time.
I’m unsure if Bruno works in CM and if the first choice is always him, then we are weak with a limited Ugarte and a slow as feck Casemiro
 
If the club had the bollocks to tell Casemiro he will be an occasional ‘impact’ sub next season, then I am sure he would go to the Saudi league and we would get a 20/25 mill transfer for him. This would be enough to bring in Hackney, who looks like he could go the Wharton route and Kone could also be given game time.
I’m unsure if Bruno works in CM and if the first choice is always him, then we are weak with a limited Ugarte and a slow as feck Casemiro
They probably haven't got the depth to tell him he will be more of a squad player this season
 
You're correct, and it does seem we will be playing in a similar manner again and then we'll here about how we dont have the data analytics to help our recruitment.

INEOS have made the situation worse with the Ugarte signing who just isn't a fit for a team that wants to play a more proactive attacking brand of football in a higher defensive line. Signing him made absolutely no sense because his qualities as a player are best utilised without the ball and even then he's not someone who can dominate larger spaces in a higher line against the opponents transition.

Had they spent the Ugarte/Zirkzee money with a real plan on implementing a proactive attacking approach, then we'd be far better off. But instead they've made a bit of a mess and will need to find a fix before the window closes or people should walk from their positions from within the football structure.

Short memories… the football structure wasn’t even in place last summer.

Also, what company fires or expects a new leadership team to resign on the basis of actions taken in their first weeks on the job, based in no small part on the planning of past leaders - particularly the former manager.

Just a weird, weird take that they should simply walk away on account of that.

People on here are getting almost giddy at the prospect of heads rolling, without actually giving any meaningful thought to it.
 
Maybe not walk away but should be pushed out. You can't be as stupid as they have been for two summer windows on the bounce and still expect to be in jobs. I think it's Wilcox for me who should be under heavy scrutiny.

And it's not three positions but only one position in central midfield which is of immediate need. And that midfield addition needs to have certain attributes to raise the level in central midfield where can then carry a build up threat centrally.

How much were Zirkzee and Ugarte on Wilcox though? Seems to me that Ratcliffe is a very emotional decision maker so not the most stable. The few things that are actually pinned on Wilcox are the two Arsenal boys and a couple of academy acquisitions recently.

I suspect that the whole "defensive midfielder" reports are bit wide off the mark, I think we surely are looking for that type of midfielder you are profiling here. If Bruno is the passer from deep, what we need next to him is someone who actually does everything, can carry, can pass, can mop up all the space left by Bruno, Dorgu, and Amad.

Amorim also said today how important it was for the present time to get Prem acclimatised players. The only one that comes to mind is Baleba. And funnily enough, Rio has been begging for him.
 
Short memories… the football structure wasn’t even in place last summer.

Also, what company fires or expects a new leadership team to resign on the basis of actions taken in their first weeks on the job, based in no small part on the planning of past leaders - particularly the former manager.

Just a weird, weird take that they should simply walk away on account of that.

People on here are getting almost giddy at the prospect of heads rolling, without actually giving any meaningful thought to it.
If you fail to establish a clear and concise way of playing the game in a proactive attacking manner and one of your first moves in the market is to waste £50m on a midfield player who is completely at odds with aiding the development of a more proactive game state then questions need to be asked.

If this continues two years on the bounce and the team still has not narrowed the gap where our build up phase (first two lines) in-possession along with our inability to contain transitions in a higher line is still a problem in comparison to our rivals then someone needs to ask some serious questions.

I'm all for giving time but each move in the market must make sense as far as the broader strategy on the pitch. And if after two years the same problems persist then serious questions need to be asked of the director of football as far as football strategy is concerned.
 
How much were Zirkzee and Ugarte on Wilcox though? Seems to me that Ratcliffe is a very emotional decision maker so not the most stable. The few things that are actually pinned on Wilcox are the two Arsenal boys and a couple of academy acquisitions recently.

I suspect that the whole "defensive midfielder" reports are bit wide off the mark, I think we surely are looking for that type of midfielder you are profiling here. If Bruno is the passer from deep, what we need next to him is someone who actually does everything, can carry, can pass, can mop up all the space left by Bruno, Dorgu, and Amad.

Amorim also said today how important it was for the present time to get Prem acclimatised players. The only one that comes to mind is Baleba. And funnily enough, Rio has been begging for him.
The academy signings are down to Nick Cox and the chief of scouting at that level, who is Luke Fedorenko. Fedorenko identifies the talent to sign and then the football directors get involved from the academy directors to the football director who oversees the whole football operation. Even at City, it was first David Harrison who was the head of youth recruitment and then later it was Joe shields who ran their recruitment at youth level. Wilcox has never been a recruitment guy as far as being the scout but rather his job is to help facilitate things with signings once those signings have been identified by the actual recruitment team.

I'm only going off reports and there was several reports about Wilcox pushing for the Ugarte signing. You could be correct and maybe it was someone else but Wilcox is very unproven and we have no idea what kind of football direction he wants to implement as football director.

I know many will be pleased as long as we sign several forward players but those same problems that have hindered us over the years will still persist because those first two lines is where we're vulnerable in the build up aswell as those same lines being vulnerable at defending space hence we drop deeper, cede possession and look to go direct. The midfield is a big hindrance in that regard and unless players like Mainoo can really excel this season (asking alot) then we face the same problems that will have either been ignored or the DoF is completely oblivious to.

Bruno isn't the answer in a deeper role because he doesn't have the pace and power out of possession and neither does he really have the ability in tight spaces. Again it will place far too much responsibility on the players around him.
 
The academy signings are down to Nick Cox and the chief of scouting at that level, who is Luke Fedorenko. Fedorenko identifies the talent to sign and then the football directors get involved from the academy directors to the football director who oversees the whole football operation. Even at City, it was first David Harrison who was the head of youth recruitment and then later it was Joe shields who ran their recruitment at youth level. Wilcox has never been a recruitment guy as far as being the scout but rather his job is to help facilitate things with signings once those signings have been identified by the actual recruitment team.

I'm only going off reports and there was several reports about Wilcox pushing for the Ugarte signing. You could be correct and maybe it was someone else but Wilcox is very unproven and we have no idea what kind of football direction he wants to implement as football director.

I know many will be pleased as long as we sign several forward players but those same problems that have hindered us over the years will still persist because those first two lines is where we're vulnerable in the build up aswell as those same lines being vulnerable at defending space hence we drop deeper, cede possession and look to go direct. The midfield is a big hindrance in that regard and unless players like Mainoo can really excel this season (asking alot) then we face the same problems that will have either been ignored or the DoF is completely oblivious to.

Bruno isn't the answer in a deeper role because he doesn't have the pace and power out of possession and neither does he really have the ability in tight spaces. Again it will place far too much responsibility on the players around him.

That's interesting. I haven't seen anything that connects Wilcox to Ugarte, quite a surprise if that's the case. In terms of the vision, I've already made this thread What is United's "game model"? because I think it's all pretty nebulous. And when Wilcox got made DoF I thought there might be a chance of him being quizzed and fleshing out the footballing vision here.

I think Mainoo, with the huge provision that he improves his physicality enormously, could be half of that midfield, if the other half is not Bruno. He might also need to improve his passing range. But he's got some outstanding attributes. And Amorim actually did say he needed the ball more, so maybe views him more as an #8 than a #10. Next to a Baleba I think he could thrive.
 
Bruno isn't the answer in a deeper role because he doesn't have the pace and power out of possession and neither does he really have the ability in tight spaces. Again it will place far too much responsibility on the players around him.

This much I definitely agree with you on

I don’t have enough to go on yet to suggest that we should blame Wilcox for Ugarte (say, vs EtH or others), but I do not like that Jim is freely admitting we’re basically reliant upon Wilcox’s eye because our analytics team is not up to task right now.

Would feel much more positive about our trajectory if we were seeing Athletic stories documenting positive momentum on the data side of the house.
 
By the time we get the midfield sorted and settled we’ll probably need to phase out our current crop of attackers

And the cycle of underinvestment and poor squad planning continues.
 
I think we will never have a world class midfield again
Never is a long time, genuinely believe we could have that again one day. Feel like it needs these leeches to be fecked off for it to become a possibility
 
By the time we get the midfield sorted and settled we’ll probably need to phase out our current crop of attackers

And the cycle of underinvestment and poor squad planning continues.

Ha, depends on what you mean by "our current crop of attackers". I actually think we're finally not far away from significant investment in midfield.

Important to remember that next summer is the critical summer for rectifying our wages. Yes, we will still be paying above-market (and even irresponsibly) for quite a few players, but some of the worst offenders will depart and wages will start to rationalize meaningfully.

If you add Casemiro's, Sancho's, and Maguire's wages all ending next summer, and that's roughly ~800k p/w of wages that we offload going into next summer.

Compare that to ~340k p/w of wages that we offloaded going into this summer between Eriksen, Lindelof, and Evans.

"Going into" is the operative phrase here, because it informs what we can bank on saving and reinvesting (fully or partially) when planning for the summer window. Uncertainty around other types of expense reductions (e.g., due to mid-window sales, loans, etc) introduces significant complexity - will someone buy my player? for how much? early or late in the window? if loaned, how much in wage savings? will my transfer targets already be gone?

My suspicion is that because of the high certainty of reducing our expenses next summer, it will be a fairly high-investment window for us - with midfield and striker being the obvious places we'd spend.
 
How exactly do we go all out for them two when money is so tight even IF we manage to make Europa
Keep in mind, that next summer several big contracts will also come to an end; Casemiro, Maguire, Sancho and Rashford hopefully. If United manage to get fifth place and Champions League with it (or sixth and EL), we should definitively be able to spend the money required for both Baleba and Wharton. Even if they would be the only "big" money signings that summer. Some sales will happen too, I imagine.
Both Arsenal and Chelsea went "all out", when they thought the right players became available in Rice and Caicedo, even at 100m+ prices. As long as we are convinced, that Baleba/Wharton are actually as good as they are, or can become as good as we perceive them, they should be well worth the money.

But this is all speculative; the gist of what I want to reiterate is to not commit to any half measures this summer. If we can get a decent midfielder on loan between now and the end of the window, I'm all for it; Palinha, Douglas Luiz etc. But I wouldn't commit serious money on anyone right now, given the current circumstances and Bruno's position in the team as stated in my previous post.

This summer should be all about fixing the attack. We mainly finished 15th last time round, because we were reliant on players like Hojlund, Garnacho, Zirkzee and god forbid Mount to score goals for us. That was never a winning strategy in the first place. With Cunha, Mbeumo, a new striker and Amad finally featuring more, we should be able to outscore most teams in the league, even if we don't control the games as well as some of the top teams. Finish above Newcastle, Villa, Spurs and maybe also teams like Brighton and Nottingham, achieve top six and then we can take the next step.
 
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If Amorim can't get a tune out of at least two of Mainoo, Fernandes, Casemiro, Ugarte this season, either he doesn't deserve to be manager or he needs to tweak his formation.

Getting a new keeper and striker in is more important than strengthening the midfield at this stage. If we can get those positions sorted sorted, we're in a much better position.

Next season, with Casemiro off the wage bill and presumably Rashford, Sancho, Antony, Maguire, Malacia, Shaw all gone aswell, we can go and spend big on someone big for the midfield and maybe look at a longer-term partnership between that player and Mainoo with Ugarte as a back up. We'd also still have Bruno obviously...

And if Amorim is gone and we return to some variation of 433/423, we're still in a more positive position than twelve months ago.
 
Would love to see us break the bank for Baleba early next summer before Scousers or Chelsea go in for him. Hope we are looking at loan opportunities this summer like Luiz/Palhinha or at least enquire about Hackney availability.