Yeah, there is no doubt in my mind if we get the form together again, we can have a strong run like 2nd half of last season.
To be honest it's the covid, terrible pre season, and no encouraging signings that made it worse.
United's talented youth level signings this window
- Thread starter Canuckred64
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
To be honest it's the covid, terrible pre season, and no encouraging signings that made it worse.
Agreed on that, there is no optimism in the fan base. Starting poorly, other clubs making better signings, none of our best problem areas identified, players looking unfit.
I don’t have exact figures, no but I can give examples of what city do specifically.
Angus Gunn - £11m transfer fee. 0 appearances for city
Brahim Diaz £15m transfer fee. 15 appearances.
Thats £26m off the top of my head for two players that didn’t stand a chance of playing for the first team and were surplus to requirements.
No doubt Woodward has been questioned why the transfer fees generated by the club is so far behind every other top club.
On the paper it was easily our best youth recruitment (even without Diallo and Pellestri) 
We've always been doing this since way before no?
Why many can't remember is many of the so called talented youth didn't make it to the first team.
Why many can't remember is many of the so called talented youth didn't make it to the first team.
It's almost a forgone conclusion with me that some of them will play more than 25 times for the first team. If Dortmund had your mentality when considering Sancho?
Well that doesn't sound good and promising at all
We don't need anyone to take the place of Rojo and Jones.. We need the youngsters to take the place of Lindelöf and Maguire.If we had Brahim Diaz on our books, we would have never sold him. We risked Angel Gomes and Chong by letting them run out their contract.
We don’t know what would have happened if we had Brahim Diaz on our books.
We’ve let the same thing happen with Chong and Gomes. There is literally nothing in our recent history to suggest that anything different would have happened at United.
You sound like you think United are run by some kind of competent sporting director. We’re not!
Promising early signs.
From the new recruilters, Diallo is a Sancho-calibre of young talents, Pellistri is also promising from what the reports say. Hugill has been putting goals immediately at 18s and 23s level despite being just 16. Carrares looks like a top talent at LB (only saw him play 1 game mind). Hansen has huge reputation in Norway before he joins. Willy is among the cream of next generation of French CBs coming through (and we know that they produce quality defenders on regular basis). Pye also did well so far on the 18s and 23s games he played. Obviously McNeill scored a lot of goals on lower age group.
We also see players already at the club taking the next step with the likes Mejbri, Elanga, Fish making impacts at U23s level and possibly competing for a spot in couple of years time. Garner doing well on loan so far. Kovar playing regularly at League One at 19, following Henderson's footstep. Hopefully Laird will stay fit and obviously Mengi did so well last season that he's part of the first team bubble now. For the younger players Shoretire has started to step up to U23s level at 16 and not to mention the likes of Hardley, Emeran, Forson etc plus players from the age groups below them which are too soon to be mentioned.
Simple statistics, the more talented youngsters at good enough calibre you have, the more likely you'll produce the players of the calibre that will challenge for first team spot (with proper coaching/pathway), also it's easier for you to get the mediocre senior players out of the squad without worrying about "the depth".
Many fans here don't like Williams but fact is without him we would not be able to ship Young out last January. Williams were killing it on the few U23s games he played before the promotion (top assister) couple of the injuries that gave enough confidence for us to play him on the deep end, and get Young out.
Now, it's not a cliche to say you need to be patient with young players. Many of them will not work out, especially at the level we strive to become. Some will not hit the ground immediately. And that's perfectly normal, especially for those stepping up immediately from the 23s so no senior footballer experience. Greenwood is the outlier not the norm. Being knee-jerk in your judgements help nobody.
From the new recruilters, Diallo is a Sancho-calibre of young talents, Pellistri is also promising from what the reports say. Hugill has been putting goals immediately at 18s and 23s level despite being just 16. Carrares looks like a top talent at LB (only saw him play 1 game mind). Hansen has huge reputation in Norway before he joins. Willy is among the cream of next generation of French CBs coming through (and we know that they produce quality defenders on regular basis). Pye also did well so far on the 18s and 23s games he played. Obviously McNeill scored a lot of goals on lower age group.
We also see players already at the club taking the next step with the likes Mejbri, Elanga, Fish making impacts at U23s level and possibly competing for a spot in couple of years time. Garner doing well on loan so far. Kovar playing regularly at League One at 19, following Henderson's footstep. Hopefully Laird will stay fit and obviously Mengi did so well last season that he's part of the first team bubble now. For the younger players Shoretire has started to step up to U23s level at 16 and not to mention the likes of Hardley, Emeran, Forson etc plus players from the age groups below them which are too soon to be mentioned.
Simple statistics, the more talented youngsters at good enough calibre you have, the more likely you'll produce the players of the calibre that will challenge for first team spot (with proper coaching/pathway), also it's easier for you to get the mediocre senior players out of the squad without worrying about "the depth".
Many fans here don't like Williams but fact is without him we would not be able to ship Young out last January. Williams were killing it on the few U23s games he played before the promotion (top assister) couple of the injuries that gave enough confidence for us to play him on the deep end, and get Young out.
Now, it's not a cliche to say you need to be patient with young players. Many of them will not work out, especially at the level we strive to become. Some will not hit the ground immediately. And that's perfectly normal, especially for those stepping up immediately from the 23s so no senior footballer experience. Greenwood is the outlier not the norm. Being knee-jerk in your judgements help nobody.
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That was exactly what I was saying sarcastically.....our centre back situation is an absolute shambles. The whole premiership was last season and still looks it this year, was why English clubs failed in Europe for me. Liverpool were the only side at the top that looked god defensively but even they havent so far this season. Isnt a huge surprise a Van Dyke just cant perform at the level he has since he has been there forever. Also Gomez although very good, is perhaps not as good as I thought he may be.Well that doesn't sound good and promising at all
But this window Arsenal-Gabriel, City-Dias/Ake, Chelsea-Silva....other sides have tried to address the problem, we havent
Whoever gets appointed as our next manager has to get with the program if Ole gets sacked. Imagine by the time they are ready for 1st team football but we have hired a manager who has no interest in developing talent.
Tell that to Dalot, Chong, Gomes, Possebon etc
You have to buy a ticket to win the prize. I like to see some youths coming in, but it's up to them and their coaches to see that they make it.
Good post. Cheers for the insight.
I prefer to tell it to: Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood, Lingard, Henderson, McTominay, Williams, Andreas, ...
That's true, assuming they are not thrown into deep water. With any one our two wide players gets some serious injury, I fear we will turn to them and expect to perform from day one.
Half of them are local talents, not brought in from overseas and having to adapt to a new country and league.
Besides, are Andreas and Pogba actually any good? Maybe Pogba, but he had to leave to fully develop and then we had to buy him back for a cool 89 million. Because that's exactly how foresighted we are.
I have to go back to Rafael to think of the last foreign youth talent that worked at United. Fabio was a flop.
So basically those who didn't hit their potential:
Januzaj
Chong
Perreira
Anderson
Dalot
Fabio
Macheda
Pique
Bebe
wee italian/american striker who we all thought was going to the next big thing gian..something can't even remember his name
etc etc must be few more
Those who did:
Rafael
Nani
De Gea (but he was a always a first team signing rather than a youth one)
Ronaldo?
The odds are not great.
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If you are going to include Anderson, Dalot and Bebe on this list then the list of successful ones can include Ronaldo, Rooney, Martial as they were all brought to the club at a similar or younger age than the former 3.
Rooney isn't a foreign talent.
Don't mind including Ronaldo (since I included De Gea), he's an undoubted success.
Martial for me is still on the Pogba level of 'I don't really know if we've managed to realise his full potential"
Neither is Angel Gomes but you still included him.
Oh yeah. He's English! I always thought he was Portuguese. I'll take him off the list.
Filip Stevanovic too ?
1. Mourinho thought Pogba was very good. £90m worth. Nearly all the fan base agreed. Perhaps you can point us to your post warning us against buying him while he was at Juve?
We had to buy Pogba back because he left on a free for Juve. We only signed him for 3 years. Apart from 3 league games in September/October of his final season he hardly played again for United. But that would be partly SAF's responsibility.
Andreas is somewhat more limited. I don't really think he can do well other than attacking midfield. We should talk about this again after a season at Lazio.
2. Don't really know what your point is. Do you think you should be chief scout, head youth coach or directory of football? Should we close our academy? Don't you realize United changed youth development strategy quite a bit in the last 2 summers - we certainly bought in a lot more players from other clubs. Most of them are still learning their trade. Not everyone's a Rooney or Owen - who can play first team at 16 or 17.
3. Local youth? Giggs arrived at 17 from City; he wasn't local, he was born in Cardiff. Londoner Beckham could hardly be called local.
4. Changed World. During SAF's reign the relative cost of a player was much lower than today, in that it was much easier to buy top players on long contracts. The only bargains today are: Bosmans, final year contract players and youth. We could pack our team with so-called certainties: Pogba, Maguire, Sancho - but it will cost a fortune and would it really work? Our youth scouting is far better than under SAF, as is our scouting in general. The days of Bebe signings are long gone.
5. Perhaps you think there are genius coaches we should sign? Then name them.
I made 5 points above because this bitter twisted sniping from people like you is just depressing to read. If you have positive points make them. If you have negative points then you better be ready to tell us your alternative.
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Facundo pellistri isn't for the youth team though. He is being thrown in the first team straight away. I don't think he would be any worse than Dan James on the right wing. Also Facundo Pellistri will play a bit as he is going to be in the first team straight away. Probably the same case with Traore
Oh they are not gonna tell you any alternative. This is a forum so if this is not where they come to moan and whine about everything under God's green earth, then where will they go? Apparently, I am given to understand, this is the reasoning given around here to just moan about everything Utd related, because as you know, we are literally the worst at everything.
Well see soon enough if he’ll be thrown into the 1st team. He’s a left footed playmaker who will be better through the middle eventually but will probably start out wide. So who is he going to dislodge immediately?
Its a good discussion though im sure its a discussion for the transfer forum?
Forson and shortire seem to be going a little under the radar in comparison to some of the signings but those two are by all accounts a couple of the most talented kids we have had in a while
Forson and shortire seem to be going a little under the radar in comparison to some of the signings but those two are by all accounts a couple of the most talented kids we have had in a while
Why do I need to think of an alternative? United could sign and sack 100 young players for all I care. It's not my football career going down the pan.
My only point is that I note the small chance that these players actually come good and make an impact on the first team, so I don't get too overexcited about it on day one of their transfer.
I have a feeling that in 2-3 years time - these last 3-4 months signings could be remembered as one of the best in the history of Manchster United - the problem is - we have to get to 2022-23 first.
But I am convinced a couple of these players we have signed will be playing regularly for United in 3 years time
But I am convinced a couple of these players we have signed will be playing regularly for United in 3 years time
We should have taken this approach years ago. Well done. Lot of potential but that is not enough. Hard work and good coaching is needed on and OFF the pich. Ravel Morrison anyone?
I include Shoretire in that Ravel, Gomes, Greenwood territory. Of course, there is a difference in skill and I'm not saying each is as skilled as the other. I'm saying that Shoretire is that next in line United English prodigious talent that rises up the United youth ranks fairly quickly and has something special about him to succeed in those early stages compared to say someone like Rashford or James Wilson or Elanga.
No guarantee of success by being a fast riser at an early age. Some just develop at different rates. It's just my personal view or rather categorization of a talent.
Ravel is just a head case. The club did everything it could for him. Many just don’t have the temperament or work ethic to make it at the top level
Absolutely. We've been doing some great work with the younger players for awhile now. But the the first team business is a mess. Now we seem to be even making youth singings our headliners this summer which is very odd.
And watch Liverpool reach number 22. In 3 years times most of these chaps will still be kids.
I think forson has an even higher potential but as you say people develop differently and of course no all will fulfill their potential but lets be honest its nice to have such talent coming through and the odds are that between them and the rest we have a good chance of a few making it either with us or leaving for good money
The funny thing is that just a few years ago many were saying that our youth setup was a mess, we weren’t bringing anyone through, our scouting was a mess etc.
In just a few years, the whole department has been revamped - Nicky butt is doing a great job. There is lots of exciting talent at the club and we are buying some of the best young talent around as well as finding unknown punts. Great work.
however the first team now needs a focus to allow these players to step up into a stable first team environment.
In just a few years, the whole department has been revamped - Nicky butt is doing a great job. There is lots of exciting talent at the club and we are buying some of the best young talent around as well as finding unknown punts. Great work.
however the first team now needs a focus to allow these players to step up into a stable first team environment.
In reality, he's probably still going to stick with James / Lingard / Mata on the right wing when Greenwood needs rest.