You can't just go by age with players. Rooney at 16 was already a more mature footballer than most 21/22 year olds. Likewise numerous players take until their early twenties to break through. Haaland already had experience as the main striker at his former club and was banging goals in. Greenwood has largely been used as a sub for us with a few underwhelming (and some decent) starts scattered in between in mostly minor games. If you can't see the difference between the two you're blind, but largely I think you're being pedantic and trying to find excuses where there are none.
Unpopular opinion - Daniel James is not very good
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
- Start date
James will be fine, I don't know why people are fretting about him. He's plenty of time to improve and in any case will likely end up a squad player here, in which there is absolutely no shame. Problem we have is signing someone better than him, not in how he is performing.
Absolutely! It must be frustrating as hell to get into positions to cross, look up and see a solitary colleague, static in the box!
That, plus a good rest.
We bought a 20 year old kid who played a handful of games in the Championship, how is it possible for that kid to become a starting 11 right winger? There is so much wrong with our club it isn´t even funny.
This kid should be thriving as a rotation and squad player coming into games with 25 min left to cause the backline problems with pace and him busting a gut for the rest of the match. I think he has done fine since he came his output is ok but I cannot understand how this is on him, it´s Ole, Ed and the managers before who have mismanaged this squad terribly his role within our squad is out of whack.
This kid should be thriving as a rotation and squad player coming into games with 25 min left to cause the backline problems with pace and him busting a gut for the rest of the match. I think he has done fine since he came his output is ok but I cannot understand how this is on him, it´s Ole, Ed and the managers before who have mismanaged this squad terribly his role within our squad is out of whack.
He needs a playmaker who can play early passes into space for him to chase with his pace. The kind Bruno and Pogba should be able to provide.
How do you know someones maturity levels when they are playing in a different country? Rooney was playing PL football at 16.
I am sure you have said it about Ole, It's Molde, a different league.
But this isnt numerous players, Greenwood is breaking through at 17 not 21, and he is scoring goals given the chance, maybe you are blind by not realising he is actually scoring goals?
So I guess playing in the EL, FA cup and PL minor games?
There is a difference in the two, one is getting regular game time one isnt, yet we are questioning Greenwood's ability to be a backup ST.
I have never said he should be our no.1 ST, you must be blind if you read that in my comments.
I never said you said that, what are you on about?
You can tell someone's maturity levels by watching them play football. Are you seriously trying to suggest Greenwood is at a similar level of development to Haaland based on their respective senior careers so far?
I'm not questioning Greenwood's ability to be a backup striker, I'm questioning your bullshit excuses for not signing Haaland, who has banged in goals wherever he's been and already proven himself way beyond Greenwood has. That doesn't mean I don't think Greenwood will be a great striker or anything, it just means Haaland has done more than Greenwood and is currently the more established forward and better fit as a first choice striker at a club like us. That could all change in a few years.
The stupidity of writing off young players on this forum will never cease to amaze me.
Funny how there's no threads questioning Rashford's ability this season.
Funny how there's no threads questioning Rashford's ability this season.
Yeah, also it doesn't help when you have fans who moan when club don't take punt on signings young players but also expect them to be consistent and completely developed from word go.
Young player, playing his second professional season and first in PL in a team that is struggling but somehow he is already written off.
We don't have absolute proof, but the narrative seems to be Woody not wanting to allow €50m release clause in 12 months time, when already he's clearly worth minimum €80m+. Do we want to become a stepping stone club like BVB, Sporting etc? Naaaah
Right, so if James was signed as "one for the future", and, as a "squad player", but then plays the vast majority of games from the start (in his debut season), you don't see an inherent contradiction in Ole's statements regarding Daniel's proposed role and the actuality of his role? The RW position wasn't addressed, much like it hasn't been for some time now. Of course it's on Ole, because he's now had to play James in more games than he ought to have done due to the lack of depth on that right, but since Greenwood is the only alternative, James can ill be afforded the opportunity to drop to a "squad player" role.
The way you've structured that argument implies that you believe that Robertson's situation is comparable to ours. it is not. Daniel James had 33 games for Swansea in the Championship. One professional season. Robertson, on the other hand, played 17 games (1527 mins) in 14/15 in the Premier League, 44 games (3841 mins) in 15/16 in the Championship, and 31 games (2732 mins) in 16/17 in the Premier League. That's 4264 minutes in the Premier League alone, before he joined Liverpool. They're not comparable. Not by any statistic, metric or argument.
Not sure why you're bringing up Håland. He's not relevant to this discussion, but if you must, I wasn't an advocate of signing Håland as an immediate first team player, but rather as a squad player. My preference has always been about addressing the RW position because it has been, and is, a gaping chasm of productivity in our squad.
What's even weirder about it is that James has already shown plenty of glimpses that he's a potentially very good winger, if you look past the last few months.
What I am saying is in a years time, give Greenwood some game time he could be on the similar level.
Haland is ahead because he has had that exposure of regular game time.
I am not giving any excuses for not signing him? what are you on about, I was refering to one poster who said Greenwood isnt good enough to play backup, and I responded saying he is a year younger than Haland who plays first team.
The posted also mentioned we should have signed Haland as a backup option, which is crazy because he would never have chosen a backup ST option when there is a First team option available.
I did not want to sign Haland as a backup option moving Greenwood into 3rd choice. If we signed him as a 1st choice with Greenwood backup.
I'm not questioning whether we should have signed him or catered to his demands etc. Only the idea that he's not a more proven footballer than Greenwood. He is.
I don't disagree, I think Haaland had the benefit of playing at "lesser" teams though. Greenwood should really be sent on loan to a team he can play 30-40 games a season rather than play second fiddle to Rashord/Martial/another striker we'll likely buy here, but that won't happen now.
Yeah, he has shown he can be good option, people are just writing him off kick and run merchant when he has shown his ability to pick passes, take on defenders in small space drawing fouls and also playing some very good crosses.
He isn't good enough to be first choice player at this moment but good enough to play as squad player.
That shouldn't be a debate, he's clearly more established than Greenwood. Is that down to management too? Possibly
I can see the contradiction in Ole's statements and he has been like that throughout his reign. However; this does not mean Ole didn't want another RW, the fact that we don't have anyone is the issue. Additionally, we have had injuries to Rashy, Martial, Dalot all in that area so James is having to play alot more games than Ole would have wanted him to.
Yes, I guess you can blame Ole for not signing players or acting out because he didn't get players and you can blame him for all the injuries.
Just because he played championship that doesn't mean he isn't good enough, people calling for Philips from Leeds, how much has he played?
AWB, only played last season. Just because a player played a lower division doesnt mean they are not good enough.
Because someone mentioned Greenwood is not a backup player. So it is relevant.
What a trainwreck of a post, just wow. You understand nothing do you.Did we stop for a moment and not criticise Ronaldo for making that poor choice of pass because his Dad passed?
Did we say wait.. don’t sack Mourinho. His Dad just died?
I’m not trying to stop morality and thanks for the commentbut let’s try and keep it about performance. Life’s not fair sometimes.. some people on here probably lost a close loved one very recently but also don’t have James finances. Should Daniel James feel sorry for them?
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be awkward but we all know Greenwood is not going out on loan as Ole sees him as an important player.
I would have liked to see him at Villa this season or something. Unfortunately, we do not have a big squad either for him to go out on loan.
Daniel James has been overused and the burden put on him this year should have never happened. He is 20 yrs old and brought in straight from the Championship. He should have been eased in and out of the squad. It's his first prem season and yet the lad was thrown into the deep end.
He will get better. He just needs some help down the right hand side. There has been literally noone in the squad to take the burden off him.
He will get better. He just needs some help down the right hand side. There has been literally noone in the squad to take the burden off him.
Kudos to the rational thinkers in this thread.
Some of the posts in here have been shocking, but thankfully balance is being restored.
Writing off youngsters in their first year, being coached badly and overused, pitted to a backdrop of bereavement warrants some rotten fruit thrown, to the face!
Some of the posts in here have been shocking, but thankfully balance is being restored.
Writing off youngsters in their first year, being coached badly and overused, pitted to a backdrop of bereavement warrants some rotten fruit thrown, to the face!
He has clealy been better statistically here than in Championship.
Although still not seeing a world beater in him.
Good coaching can potentially bring more out of him. Hopefully he will get that here in the future.
Although still not seeing a world beater in him.
Good coaching can potentially bring more out of him. Hopefully he will get that here in the future.
My frustration with James is that he seems quite dithery on the ball and takes ages to assess his options even when there is a player open or a clear shooting opportunity. I don't think many players learn that, you're either instinctive or not.
Writing off a young player with one full season of championship football in him is rough.I often find the voices on here don't tie in with what you hear at the games itself, and this is one of those instances. We as supporters of Utd are lenient on new signings. Fred, Lindeloff and Martial are still getting our support when it hasn't always been plain sailing for them. James is a squad player with potential to push for a staring spot. The ideal scenario would have been for him to come in and learn his trade, be an impact sub. We've basically pushed him to his limits, you see the physical hits he gets every game due to the nature and speed of his play. He needs a break, which we haven't really been able to give him. Like any player, never mind young player coming from championship, he needs to improve, and no doubt he will. I also feel sorry for him in that we don't have that lethal penalty box striker, how many times has he put a ball in the box and Rashford is back post and Martial edge of the box, no-one attacking it.His crossing in general needs improving but he's put plenty on a plate that a good striker would have tucked away.
Not to mention that his best position is down the left.
Looks like he needs a good rest to me. Lots of pressure on a young players since he arrived, especially after the good start he had. It'd be nice it we had sufficient depth to take him out of the firing line for a while.
I don't agree with that at all. What you're talking about is generally referred to as "end product". Sterling used to be like that and has matured into a great player. Even Ronaldo had issues when he first joined United.
He's a young lad with little PL experience who's come into a shambles of a club and with a lot of weight on his shoulders. With experience, and confidence comes composure. Few players have that instinctively. Young players make poor decisions and take an extra touch when they shouldn't. Whether he proves he's good enough long term is unknown, but he'd shown more than enough to be given a chance.
He clearly has potential and coupled with his speed, he could forge out quite a good career at United. But, on current form he would struggle to get in most PL sides as an out and out winger. His constant inclusion in the squad highlights the glowing problems in our squad and management. I think he has been badly coached - his positional sense and awareness are really, really bad. He doesn't look like he knows what to do half the time.
I hope he can kick on next season because he won't be afforded as much leeway then if performances and output don't improve.
I hope he can kick on next season because he won't be afforded as much leeway then if performances and output don't improve.
You're right. It's good to see people finally call out what a bag of shite he is.
Yup but it's to be expected really. All we can do is wait out the period of poor form and see what comes out on the other side. The lad has shown quality before, so I personally wouldn't be surprised if it's something good.
What has worried me most about James' performance lately, has been his decision making and lack of variation in his game. When playing on the right he seems to go for the byline and put in a high cross most of the time, which rarely works out. Compared to other smaller players such as Sterling, Aguero, Silva or Hazard, he also seems to be muscled off the ball extremely easily.
As people have pointed out, it is his first season in the PL and he has probably played way too much. A good long rest, better coaching and better protection from the refs would do him good - he has taken a lot of punishment so far. Considering his attitude and work rate, he should still at least become a good squad player for us, but based on current form he is far from being good to enough to be a starter.
As people have pointed out, it is his first season in the PL and he has probably played way too much. A good long rest, better coaching and better protection from the refs would do him good - he has taken a lot of punishment so far. Considering his attitude and work rate, he should still at least become a good squad player for us, but based on current form he is far from being good to enough to be a starter.
But how many are in good form at the moment anyway?
Fred probably is the only one?
There's no doubt he gets brushed off the ball too easily, as many have already observed. My fear is that any advantage he might gain from “bulking up” gets negated by a loss of agility; I’m pretty sure this is what happened to Memphis, not to mention Lukaku.
What he could do with is gaining a bit of guile. As could our other forwards for that matter. Is this something that’s coachable? I don’t see why it shouldn’t be, though since we are hopeless even at throw-ins I’m not confident our coaches could do it.
What he could do with is gaining a bit of guile. As could our other forwards for that matter. Is this something that’s coachable? I don’t see why it shouldn’t be, though since we are hopeless even at throw-ins I’m not confident our coaches could do it.
What you need to be a winger at Manchester Utd is flair and natural ability, unfortunately James doesn’t have either and never will. I sure he’s a nice lad but we need to stop looking for excuses to justify his poor performance on the pitch and just admit he’s not good enough.
Hopefully under a new coaching team because under this lot he's gonna be deadwood by summer 2021.
So we should overlook practically his entire career in the Premier League?
So what you're saying is that if one of the 5 greatest players in the history of football and one of the 5 best players in the Premier League can do it, so can Dan James. This makes about as much sense as the Ole-in crowd's argument that if SAF and Pep and Klopp can overcome slow starts, then Ole can too. Let's give him more time because 3 of the greatest managers in the history of football got more time and they turned it around. Sure, and if Usain Bolt can run a 9.80, maybe you can too. Or if Tom Hanks can win his third Oscar, maybe Tony Danza can win four. It's a nonsense argument.
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I think he's alright. Overplayed, don't think he's ready to play week in and week out.
Well I couldn’t give a toss whether he’s a nice lad or not, and am certainly not looking for excuses. Though if we’ve completely given up on improving players we’ve signed and just hope that either their “natural ability” is good enough or they don’t forget the good things they’ve learned at their previous club(s), then we’ll be in the doldrums for a long time.
Besides, Nani had more flair and natural ability than 95% of the players I’ve seen at OT over the past 50 years, yet a hell of a lot of fans (NOT just on the Caf) hated him. So not everyone agrees with your opening statement, sadly.