Unpopular opinion: Ronaldo will be a huge miss

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Gehrman

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As others said if he went to City they would make it work as top class manager can carry him out of possession and use his strengths. Also take him out of the team and most likely we would be sitting bottom half of the table and with 1 pt in CL.
Yeah thats because City dominate games and we dont. He's not able to create much himself. He's a good player to have in the squad he's just far past his prime.
 

Enigma_87

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Totally agree we’ve been absolute rubbish for a lot longer than Ronaldo joining us. People need to see the root causes and fix those first.
Last season it was paper over cracks and we benefitted from other rivals having problems and off season. We didn’t play well and results masked that due to individual brilliance of the players.
 

devilish

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Ronaldo always needed someone who did the donkey work for him. Even in his prime we had players like Park, Carrick, Scholes, Rooney and Tevez working like mad men behind him while he shone. He won't change at age 36.

Ole should have thought about that. Unfortunately he didn't because he depends a lot on these sort of players for individual brilliance to basically bail him out.
 

Red00012

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"Ronaldo will decide where he wants to play. Not Manchester City, not myself. Right now it looks far, far, away," Guardiola said on Friday, around an hour before Sky Sports News reported City have ended talks and United are now in discussions with their former player.

We beat City to his signature, I don't understand when this became disputed.
It gets disputed because results aren’t going our way and he didn’t score in his last 2 games
 

Ballache

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If players make so many individual errors, you can't blame the manager either
FFS :lol:
Yes the players are the issue, let's sell them all and invest another billion in new players.
Some people are really ready to die on the Ole hill.
 

iammemphis

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Ronaldo isn't the problem ffs its the unbalanced midfield, lack of quality at right back and DM and a coherent tactical plan.
 

Enigma_87

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Yeah thats because City dominate games and we dont. He's not able to create much himself. He's a good player to have in the squad he's just far past his prime.
Yea and City carried old players who didn’t press much in the past for example Silva, Aguero…

there’s also the thing that he does not have to start in every game but that’s another matter.
 

OrcaFat

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People will really go out if their way to defend Ole.
Create chances and Ronaldo will score 30 goals this season. We can't string 3 passes together, literally everyone bar Greenwood and De Gea have look trash this season. The problem is the manager, not the players.
The problem is the players AND the manager. That said, these players can play better and they’ve been too bad for too long and I do put that on Ole.

We have to be honest with ourselves when we look at the players. Ronaldo still has quality but he is not the player he was. Setting the team up differently might deliver more chances to him but at what cost defensively? Keeping in mind the shitness of our midfield options and the shaky form and fitness of our defence, we have to ask whether Ronaldo is an automatic selection or not - his finishing, his profile and history says yes but his age and overall contribution says no.

Ole has managed to get this team playing pretty badly for the last 15 games or more, he’s hitting a wall in my opinion and looks unable to lift his level. So I’m not defending Ole, I’m saying it’s not just him.

The fact remains Ronaldo is 36 and does almost nothing but shoot (and either miss or score). Him and Cavani should share game time; whoever starts needs to give us 45-55 mins of full intensity play and then sub off for the other.

I’m general, it’s a seductive idea that sacking the manager will make all the players better but it’s probably not true. A better manager AND better players are needed.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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As others said if he went to City they would make it work as top class manager can carry him out of possession and use his strengths. Also take him out of the team and most likely we would be sitting bottom half of the table and with 1 pt in CL.
You realize that we came second last season without him and have looked much more imbalanced and disjointed since he came, and have taken a step back since he came, don't you?

No, we wouldn't be bottom half of the table without him. We would be carrying off where we left off last season.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Yea and City carried old players who didn’t press much in the past for example Silva, Aguero…

there’s also the thing that he does not have to start in every game but that’s another matter.
Both Silva and Agüero pressed. More importantly, both Silva and Agüero suited City's possession play because they have better close control.
 

Gehrman

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Both Silva and Agüero pressed. More importantly, both Silva and Agüero suited City's possession play because they have better close control.
It might not specific to peps time but Silva and Aguero were monsters.
 

Enigma_87

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You realize that we came second last season without him and have looked much more imbalanced and disjointed since he came, and have taken a step back since he came, don't you?

No, we wouldn't be bottom half of the table without him. We would be carrying off where we left off last season.
We were looking bad last season despite results. Mason hardly presses either, Martial? Cavani couldn’t start the season, so who would’ve taken his place and added work rate?
 

Enigma_87

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Silva lost ability to press only in his last 18-20 months with City and immediately started playing less and less and the same could be said about Aguero.
That’s why I said a smart manager would manage his playing time but also still use his strengths against teams that usually sit back for example. Cristiano is on two years deal and shouldn’t be an undisputed starter, but can be useful in many games.
 

RedCheekz

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It’s clear and well known he is not the same ronaldo we all use to know but the man is still a beast.
His gameplay has evolved due to his age but if we play to his strengths I believe he could be the top goal scorer in Europe still.
He is simply not getting the service he deserves and requires.
 

Rajma

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That’s why I said a smart manager would manage his playing time but also still use his strengths against teams that usually sit back for example. Cristiano is on two years deal and shouldn’t be an undisputed starter, but can be useful in many games.
Have you not seen a global outcry (including SAF) when he tried doing just that before the international break? It’s an impossible task to manage for anyone out there (maybe excluding Pep/Klopp/Conte) let alone Ole who has next to no managerial pedigree. This club cares more about the PR than actual performances on the pitch.
 

Enigma_87

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Have you not seen a global outcry (including SAF) when he tried doing just that before the international break? It’s an impossible task to manage for anyone out there (maybe excluding Pep/Klopp/Conte) let alone Ole who has next to no managerial pedigree. This club cares more about the PR than actual performances on the pitch.
Then you don’t go for him. My point is someone like Pep won’t allow that to happen and would use him smart (hence they were in for him).
 

Rajma

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Then you don’t go for him. My point is someone like Pep won’t allow that to happen and would use him smart (hence they were in for him).
I agree but in fairness doing this at City where he has no history would have been much easier for Pep to bench him when needed.
 

Ollie Derbyshire

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Last season it was paper over cracks and we benefitted from other rivals having problems and off season. We didn’t play well and results masked that due to individual brilliance of the players.
We’ve been papering for a long time now, Ole needs to pick his clutch players and put a balanced team around them. When he actually did that at the start of his tenure we were able to control games, obviously only lasted about 10-12 games but I’d rather that than this.
 

Ollie Derbyshire

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You realize that we came second last season without him and have looked much more imbalanced and disjointed since he came, and have taken a step back since he came, don't you?

No, we wouldn't be bottom half of the table without him. We would be carrying off where we left off last season.
You realise we played awful for a lot of last season and individuals bailed us out constantly.

How can a No 9 make a team imbalanced? It’s like saying a new CB has caused an imbalance.
 

OrcaFat

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You realise we played awful for a lot of last season and individuals bailed us out constantly.

How can a No 9 make a team imbalanced? It’s like saying a new CB has caused an imbalance.
Come on.

A team has to have balance between attacking and defending. Defence starts from the front. If you have a guy who basically doesn’t close down, doesn’t run, doesn’t care about defending you create a deficit which needs counteracting either by fielding a greater number of defensive players or some players with particularly high defensive contributions (a Dan James type, for example) which, in turn, often means a loss of creativity.
 

Sandikan

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People seem to have elevated Cavani, to this super human pressing machine, that upon replacing him with Ronaldo has totally disrupted us.

Ignoring that Maguire and Shaw seem to be on a post euros lull, and Maguire you can add injury and being clearly unfit yesterday into the mix.
The McFred combo, that while limited, served us so well last season have been totally off the boil, and/or injured.
Pogba - same issue as last few years
Rashford has been out taking the dynamism of the team down a fair notch.
Sancho has started very gently to say the least and looks more like Lingard's meeker brother at the moment.

De Gea seemingly back to old days form, Pogba racking up a few assists, and Ronaldo starting with a 5 in 5 burst have been the only hightlights this season.
Plus Bruno's hattrick.

But 2 wins in 7 is it? With the two wins being a 95th min stolen goal in Europe, and a missed pen away at West Ham, is pretty frightening really.
2 in 7 is the sort of win rate you might fear in this next run of games, but not in the last one!
 

barros

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The problem is the players AND the manager. That said, these players can play better and they’ve been too bad for too long and I do put that on Ole.

We have to be honest with ourselves when we look at the players. Ronaldo still has quality but he is not the player he was. Setting the team up differently might deliver more chances to him but at what cost defensively? Keeping in mind the shitness of our midfield options and the shaky form and fitness of our defence, we have to ask whether Ronaldo is an automatic selection or not - his finishing, his profile and history says yes but his age and overall contribution says no.

Ole has managed to get this team playing pretty badly for the last 15 games or more, he’s hitting a wall in my opinion and looks unable to lift his level. So I’m not defending Ole, I’m saying it’s not just him.

The fact remains Ronaldo is 36 and does almost nothing but shoot (and either miss or score). Him and Cavani should share game time; whoever starts needs to give us 45-55 mins of full intensity play and then sub off for the other.

I’m general, it’s a seductive idea that sacking the manager will make all the players better but it’s probably not true. A better manager AND better players are needed.
You are hitting the wrong key, the problem is not the attack, they score goals even with an unbalanced midfield and a bad defense.
 

OrcaFat

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You are hitting the wrong key, the problem is not the attack, they score goals even with an unbalanced midfield and a bad defense.
The balance problem is that of the whole team. If the forwards don’t do their share of defending (or if the team is not set up to compensate) the games are hard to win. It’s no good scoring two if you concede four. Better to score one and concede none.
 

Ágætis Byrjun

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Ronaldo isn't the problem ffs its the unbalanced midfield, lack of quality at right back and DM and a coherent tactical plan.
Ronaldo is 'a' problem though. Cavani fits the lone striker role much better than him. Also his pressing from the front allows opponent to play it quickly down the line whereas Ronaldo being static gives them an ample amount of time and space to play it from back.
 

HerbT

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If there was a striker in his mid 30's that was worth getting it was vardy, been saying it for about 3 seasons now and many fans said he was too old and yet he would be a better fit and more prolific than lukaku, Ibrahimovic, ronaldo, cavani or ighalo.

As great as Ronaldo is he has to have the right set up around him and for us to do that we would have screw up the vision we have been trying to build up to over the past few seasons.

I swear we are man city's fairy god mother, we basically gifted them Tevez, we saved them from signing sanchez, and Maguire who I don't believe can play in a side that plays a attacking high pressing game and we did the same with ronaldo who can't imagine would have suited pep's philosophy of football that requires everyone to work their socks off.
I think you’re wrong. I think that city are the only top side he could play up front for and still reach crazy numbers because city dominate teams and dominate possession so much that they could carry him out of possession.

He would be in that team for one reason and one reason only...to convert the many many chances city create.

Wouldn’t work at Pool either cause pressing high from the front is intrinsic in their game.
I know that it can look like that at a glance but, if you watch them often enough you’ll come to realise that the City dilemma is that their chance creation is spectacularly high because they use players who all work their socks off and press.
If one player doesn’t press then you don’t have a press, don’t win the ball back, don’t maintain possession, don’t create many chances - Ronaldo simply wouldn’t work in a city side and City were never going to sign him because the way they play wouldn’t function with him in their side.

Added to that, Ronaldo has image rights deals that require him to play and he won’t put that income at risk so won’t sign for any club that won’t guarantee playing time . . City don’t guarantee playing time for any player so Ronaldo wouldn’t sign for City regardless of whether City wanted him or not.

It seems pretty obvious that United have given him playing guarantees so you’ll have to work out how to get a tune out of the old boy.
As it happens, Utd can’t be a high pressing / possession side because they don’t have a keeper who can play behind or distribute to high press / possession side.
Thus he can be accommodated without revolutionising their ‘style’ of play and with the right set up around him he will score plenty.
 

Ollie Derbyshire

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Come on.

A team has to have balance between attacking and defending. Defence starts from the front. If you have a guy who basically doesn’t close down, doesn’t run, doesn’t care about defending you create a deficit which needs counteracting either by fielding a greater number of defensive players or some players with particularly high defensive contributions (a Dan James type, for example) which, in turn, often means a loss of creativity.
If you can’t find a balance team leaving one player to stay high up the pitch then you shouldn’t be a manager.

Bruno makes us more imbalanced that Ronaldo, he roams wherever he wants, Pogba makes us more imbalanced than Ronaldo does, Fred & McT make the team more imbalanced, none of them play their positions well at all leaving huge gaps straight through us.

it’s one thing wanting a more mobile striker, thats fair enough but a different discussion to making us unbalanced.
 

OrcaFat

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If you can’t find a balance team leaving one player to stay high up the pitch then you shouldn’t be a manager.

Bruno makes us more imbalanced that Ronaldo, he roams wherever he wants, Pogba makes us more imbalanced than Ronaldo does, Fred & McT make the team more imbalanced, none of them play their positions well at all leaving huge gaps straight through us.

it’s one thing wanting a more mobile striker, thats fair enough but a different discussion to making us unbalanced.
The team has to be balanced in terms of attack and defence. It needs the right ratio of resource and quality between attacking and defending. If the forwards don’t defend that creates a quandary of whether to compensate (say by leaving out a creative midfield player to play a more defensive type) or to go ahead and play with a team that is biased towards attacking; if you do the former, you have increased risk of losing games 1-0, if you do the latter, you have increased risk of losing games 4-2.

In the modern game you can’t carry players even if they used to be the GOAT.
 

MS4

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FFS :lol:
Yes the players are the issue, let's sell them all and invest another billion in new players.
Some people are really ready to die on the Ole hill.
Yes Ole is the problem, cause he did not teach them how to pass in u7.
Some people really should coach any team for a year to get at least the slightest idea of how football managing works
 

Real Name

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There's a myth out there we looked more balanced and better last season and cause Ronaldo came we now look disjointed. We looked the same last year but managed to win games still, either thanks to individual quality, luck and sometimes due to us being better than the opponent (not as much as needed). Lets be honest, we didnt look good last season either and were outperformed by a lot of opponents, including average or below average teams.
Unfortunately chicken have come to roost this season. McFred are looking a lot worse than last season, dont know whats happening with Shaw and Maguire and problems with Pogba are the same, Ronaldo is not at fault for neither of those things.
Ole should have thought about the fact he's bringing Ronaldo back and prepare a tactic to suit his game the best, all the while knowing how does he work on the pitch and that he doesnt press.
Ronaldo didnt suddenly come and make us imbalanced and ruined a perfectly oiled machine of some sort.

Our pressing is a mess to begin with and with Ronaldo its even worse. Come to think of it, its remarkable that after 3 years our pressing isnt worked out and its a mess with one of 2 players doing it, others dont.

Better manager would know how to use Ronaldo better and how much would he use him. The whole team structure would be lifted, allowing Ronaldo to shine. If anything he'd have more chances to work with.

https://theathletic.com/2895026/202...-tactical-problem/?source=user_shared_article

Worth a read. Sums up nicely the problem Ronaldo causes and for me illustrates perfectly why McFred is a necessity at this point in the absence of a DM.
Could you copy the text here?
 

justsomebloke

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There's a myth out there we looked more balanced and better last season and cause Ronaldo came we now look disjointed. We looked the same last year but managed to win games still, either thanks to individual quality, luck and sometimes due to us being better than the opponent (not as much as needed). Lets be honest, we didnt look good last season either and were outperformed by a lot of opponents, including average or below average teams.
Unfortunately chicken have come to roost this season. McFred are looking a lot worse than last season, dont know whats happening with Shaw and Maguire and problems with Pogba are the same, Ronaldo is not at fault for neither of those things.
Ole should have thought about the fact he's bringing Ronaldo back and prepare a tactic to suit his game the best, all the while knowing how does he work on the pitch and that he doesnt press.
Ronaldo didnt suddenly come and make us imbalanced and ruined a perfectly oiled machine of some sort.

Our pressing is a mess to begin with and with Ronaldo its even worse. Come to think of it, its remarkable that after 3 years our pressing isnt worked out and its a mess with one of 2 players doing it, others dont.

Better manager would know how to use Ronaldo better and how much would he use him. The whole team structure would be lifted, allowing Ronaldo to shine. If anything he'd have more chances to work with.


Could you copy the text here?
Seriously, why is the actual badness of reality never enough for people, no matter how bad it gets?

We did not look the same last season, except for those horrible three opening games. We were obviously not "outperformed by a lot of opponents, including average or below average teams". You don't finish second if you are.
 

Real Name

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Seriously, why is the actual badness of reality never enough for people, no matter how bad it gets?

We did not look the same last season, except for those horrible three opening games. We were obviously not "outperformed by a lot of opponents, including average or below average teams". You don't finish second if you are.
Well actually, it can happen yeah. You get outperformed but win nevertheless. Its football.

We did look better last season, but only by slightly. Now everything is crumbling. I know its easy to point the blame to just Ronaldo coming. But its deadly wrong too.
 

padzilla

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At the moment we're just all over the place, we are trying to accommodate Pogba, Bruno and Ronaldo in the same team and it clearly is not working - we need more graft in the side as lesser teams are rolling us over because we just want to do fancy flicks and score sensational goals without earning it.
As for finishing second last season, the league was over in February, we were actually top at the start of January and 15 points behind in mid-February, the writing has been on the wall for some time.
 

justsomebloke

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Well actually, it can happen yeah. You get outperformed but win nevertheless. Its football.

We did look better last season, but only by slightly. Now everything is crumbling. I know its easy to point the blame to just Ronaldo coming. But its deadly wrong too.
You can get outperformed but win nevertheless in an individual game, yes. But not to the extent of finishing second.
 

dal

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Ronaldo always needed someone who did the donkey work for him. Even in his prime we had players like Park, Carrick, Scholes, Rooney and Tevez working like mad men behind him while he shone. He won't change at age 36.

Ole should have thought about that. Unfortunately he didn't because he depends a lot on these sort of players for individual brilliance to basically bail him out.
I doubt Ole had any power over the Ronaldo signing even if he did veto.
 

justsomebloke

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I doubt Ole had any power over the Ronaldo signing even if he did veto.
Why on earth wouldn't he? All info in any case point to him being a clear and active advocate of making the move.

Ole brought Ronaldo in. That meant bringing not just the goalscoring, but also the challenges that follow with him, and which were clear and well-known: He's a player you have to build around, including by having other players play to his needs and compensate for what he doesn't do. That brings (foreseeable) problems, and Ole has not so far been able to solve those problems. Either he solves those problems, or he made a mistake bringing in Ronaldo. That's pretty much the gist of it, in my opinion.
 
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