Unpopular opinion time on AWB.....

Judas

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Time is on his side. He can improve, but generally improvement doesn't vastly happen over night, you can see it gradually happening, I think. Thus far there's none of that with him really. He's the same player as to when we signed him.

I still laugh at people saying he's a good passer. He's a good tackler, pretty much everything else needs work.
 

Vernon Philander

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A few of us saw through his last minute hero tackles that got everyone drooling, a while back. A player relying solely on pace to make challenges and has low technical ability is not the right standard for us.

Really wished we had Trippier in.
 

rron10

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What worries me about him is that he plays like the first time he got here, no improvement at all.
 

tomaldinho1

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Wonder what Shaw’s stats would be like if the opposition gave him the time and space of the half the pitch that they regularly happily concede to AWB.
But I can just say I wonder what AWB’s stats would be like if he’d played with an RW for his time here…some of you like to hate on players way too much. He’s been consistently good defensively since coming here and the hope is he keeps improving offensively (which he did last season).

It’s telling the way we think about players now that the solution to any problem is buy another player. Even Chelsea, the most carefree spenders have examples of developing players in that role (Moses) and bringing through youth (James) in recent history.
 

Bebestation

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But I can just say I wonder what AWB’s stats would be like if he’d played with an RW for his time here…some of you like to hate on players way too much. He’s been consistently good defensively since coming here and the hope is he keeps improving offensively (which he did last season).

It’s telling the way we think about players now that the solution to any problem is buy another player. Even Chelsea, the most carefree spenders have examples of developing players in that role (Moses) and bringing through youth (James) in recent history.
The other thing people don't realise is that alot of our goals have come from the left and not the right.
 

tomaldinho1

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The other thing people don't realise is that alot of our goals have come from the left and not the right.
I think most know that, we’ve been lopsided since forever. Shaw, Rashford and Pogba all prefer that side and have decent partnerships, Martial also prefers dropping onto that side when CF. The hope is Sancho balances us out which will make us a million times less predictable and easy to defend against. That’s why AWB getting the same amount of goal involvements last season as Shaw surely hints at some promise at least.
 

2cents

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some of you like to hate on players way too much
Don’t hate any player, I’ve just never believed he has the basic skills required to play at the level we need him to. There have been one or two moments in his time with us where I thought he might change my mind, but unfortunately I still don’t see it.
 

Paxi

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Time is on his side. He can improve, but generally improvement doesn't vastly happen over night, you can see it gradually happening, I think. Thus far there's none of that with him really. He's the same player as to when we signed him.

I still laugh at people saying he's a good passer. He's a good tackler, pretty much everything else needs work.
Yep. I don’t see any tangible signs that he’s coming on in his defensive positioning, his technical and thus attacking play. He is, as you say, a largely the same player we signed couple of years back.

Also, seen someone comparing him to Luke Shaw yesterday and how he came on recently. The thing with Luke Shaw was mental — I’m convinced of it. That leg break scarred him literally and figuratively. So totally different situations.
 

Bebestation

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I think most know that, we’ve been lopsided since forever. Shaw, Rashford and Pogba all prefer that side and have decent partnerships, Martial also prefers dropping onto that side when CF. The hope is Sancho balances us out which will make us a million times less predictable and easy to defend against. That’s why AWB getting the same amount of goal involvements last season as Shaw surely hints at some promise at least.
No sorry I mean that clubs tend to score goals alot from the left hand side vs us than the right.

All our goals this season vs us has had a left handed heaviness to it.

Even the goal vs us against Villareal in the last game of last season.
 

tomaldinho1

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No sorry I mean that clubs tend to score goals alot from the left hand side vs us than the right.

All our goals this season vs us has had a left handed heaviness to it.

Even the goal vs us against Villareal in the last game of last season.
Is that a trend across all teams out of interest? Would be interesting to see the data.

If so many be because you get a lot more right footed left forwards who cut in and score versus the opposite?
 

Bebestation

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Is that a trend across all teams out of interest? Would be interesting to see the data.

If so many be because you get a lot more right footed left forwards who cut in and score versus the opposite?
Teams score more vs Shaw than Wan Bissaka for me mate.

I'm not saying Shaw is poor but more goals come from his and Maguires side than Varane and Wan Bissaka's side.
 

tomaldinho1

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Teams score more vs Shaw than Wan Bissaka for me mate.

I'm not saying Shaw is poor but more goals come from his and Maguires side than Varane and Wan Bissaka's side.
Ah sorry I misunderstood, thought you were saying clubs in general (in all their games) score more from the left versus the right. You are actually right so far this season though.

This season: Newcastle goal mainly on Maguire but Shaw gets turned by Almiron and then doesn’t get back into position (although I don’t think he’d have been able to anyway once he’d been turned). Goal scored from our left side.

Southampton Bruno dispossessed on the LW. Adam’s scored centrally. Looking at this I’d probably blame Maguire again for doing to stupid Bobby Moore leg drop and giving Adam’s a shooting opportunity.

Leeds also from left side, rocket from Ayling. Probably on Pogba as Shaw can’t step up as there’s a man outside. Great finish as well so no one to criticise too much.

Young Boys. Goal from left side cross in and Lingard’s error from the right.
 

Champ

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Teams score more vs Shaw than Wan Bissaka for me mate.

I'm not saying Shaw is poor but more goals come from his and Maguires side than Varane and Wan Bissaka's side.
Anything to back that up? Any stats or website you could point us to in order to check this out?

If true, its probably due to the fact that Shaw spends a lot more time in the opposition half than AWB does, you can check their respective heatmaps to varify that.

My big worry with AWB is his laziness at getting back inot position, he seems to believe that a last ditch challenge will bail him out of any trouble he gets into, when he could eradicate that challenge by getting back into position quicker in the first place.
 

Bobade

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I think he has improved going forward since he joined - his decision making and crossing is definitely better in my opinion.

However, what hasn't changed is his general clumsiness and discomfort on the ball. When he receives it, he seems to need to take a few touches just to trap and control it, by which time he's under pressure and he seems flummoxed.
 

snk123

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Time is on his side. He can improve, but generally improvement doesn't vastly happen over night, you can see it gradually happening, I think. Thus far there's none of that with him really. He's the same player as to when we signed him.

I still laugh at people saying he's a good passer. He's a good tackler, pretty much everything else needs work.
How can you improve your basic footballing abilities? He's a great 1 v 1 defender and a remarkably average player at everything else
 

youmeletsfly

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Time is on his side. He can improve, but generally improvement doesn't vastly happen over night, you can see it gradually happening, I think. Thus far there's none of that with him really. He's the same player as to when we signed him.

I still laugh at people saying he's a good passer. He's a good tackler, pretty much everything else needs work.
He's worse than my mother on the ball, and she's 61.
I agree that he's a good tackler but his massive issues are positioning and, of course, being able to control and pass that round thing. He's 23 and, other than positioning, no way in hell he can learn to hit, stop and pass a ball. I mean he's had 15 years of doing it the same way, you can't replace that muscle memory overnight and while you still need to be playing EPL football.
 

Baxter

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Always laugh when I remember he came through Palace’s academy as a winger, before switching late to full back. How did he last so long at a high level academy in an attacking position?
 

kps88

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He's actually playing worse. Looks tired all the time.
People forget he was just 21 when we signed him and threw him straight into the first team. There were no other senior right backs at the club to help him ease him in. He had only one full season at senior level with Palace before joining us. He went straight from that to playing 50 odd games a season with next to zero rest. It's no wonder he looks tired.

I actually feel a bit sorry for him; most other top clubs would have treated him as a young squad player behind a more experienced full back. It's not his fault we've had bigger fires to put out every window so we just decide to gamble and overplay him instead.
 

Crimson King

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I do worry that he might not be good enough anymore.

When we signed him he was a major upgrade in that department, and because we were predominantly a counter-attacking team he fitted the system really well. He just had to focus on winning the ball back, but now he spends more time with the ball at his feet than actually defending.

It might be a case that with the other signings we've moved beyond him, and need a more rounded player now.

I do hope I'm wrong, and he can show progress this year. I think it's telling that most people would agree with Southgate and pick Arnold, James or Trippier to be their RB over AWB though.
 

justsomebloke

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Is that a trend across all teams out of interest? Would be interesting to see the data.

If so many be because you get a lot more right footed left forwards who cut in and score versus the opposite?
Certainly if you look at the best wide forwards in the PL, it's quite notable how many of them operate on the left compared to the right. Son, Grealish, Sterling, Mane, Rashford, Richarlison, St. Maximin, Neto, Aubameyang. On the right, there are much fewer top names: Saka, Salah, Mahrez, Silva...and that's it, really.
 

Bebestation

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Certainly if you look at the best wide forwards in the PL, it's quite notable how many of them operate on the left compared to the right. Son, Grealish, Sterling, Mane, Rashford, Richarlison, St. Maximin, Neto, Aubameyang. On the right, there are much fewer top names: Saka, Salah, Mahrez, Silva...and that's it, really.
This is why I want Wan Bissaka as part of the squad even if he isn't always part of the first XI.

There is more right footed inverted forward that straight dribble and shoot and Wan Bissaka's one vs one defending is useful than people seem to appreciate.

We don't always need a defensive fullback in our team- but I'm happy to have one in our squad and im happy to have Spider Wan Bissaka as our defensive option :drool:

I'm not sure why people are crying around like he is completely useless and we should sell him and stuff.
 

w1thout

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People who think he's good defensively need to be reminded how Leipzig targeted him when they beat us last year.
Sure, he's a great 1v1 defender and is a brilliant tackler, but his positional awareness and overall defending skills are lacking.
As some posters like to remind us from time to time, Maldini once said something along the lines that if he had to make a tackle, he had already made a mistake.


The above, coupled with his obvious technical and attacking deficiencies is why I think he has no business being the starting RB for Manchester United.
We're supposed to play on the front foot, but it's hard when almost every attacking move that goes through your RB breaks down, and the opposition clearly targets him when we're in possession, game in game out.