Great post, hard to disagree. We need defensive balance to our team and our right side needs a lot of work. Jason Sancho or similar would help balance AWB's contribution to the team.
Unpopular (AKA fickle) opinion time on AWB.....
- Thread starter Nou_Camp99
- Start date
Somehow the narrative is "bad positioning" 
He tackles a lot which means the obvious conclusion is bad positioning, nothing to do with he always deals 1v1 with Wingers.
He tackles a lot which means the obvious conclusion is bad positioning, nothing to do with he always deals 1v1 with Wingers.
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His crossing is not the issue for me. As I have said repeatedly, his passing/buildup play is. Hassenhutl recently explained how they made a meal of it. I think others did too. And I’m not sure that part of his game can be developed.
In fact, I am confident that Max Aarons too will be higher rated by most in five years.
Stats is fun. But you need to understand them not to end up buying Schneiderlin or Downing. Or AWB.
It seems that AWB is the new target for our ‘supposed’ fans to jump upon! He had an outstanding season in my opinion. He’s literally played two full seasons in his career! Yes, he has things to work on but the things he does well- he does very well and will develop the other areas as time goes on.
This is a great post and points out what a lot of people seem to be missing. AWB wasn't bought to be a an all out gung ho attacking full back, though they will certainly work on that part of his game. Often his key role is tuck into midfield behind the attack when you are pushing forward in possession, to protect against the counter and he excels at this.
If you get Sancho the right side of your team will change dramatically, but AWB's job will always be primarily defensive rather than offensive.
The fullback doesn't necessarily have to be great at charging up and down the wing and being a real attacking threat, but if they don't provide that then they at least need to help out the midfield with the build-up and control of the match. AWB doesn't provide either. That's the big issue. Shaw at least does help out a fair bit with the second category, although he could certainly improve if he works on his positioning.
Hopefully either AWB improves significantly, or Laird manages to stay fit and is given a decent opportunity as from the sounds of it he does provide what we need. Obviously Williams can also play on the right but there's doubts over him as well.
Hopefully either AWB improves significantly, or Laird manages to stay fit and is given a decent opportunity as from the sounds of it he does provide what we need. Obviously Williams can also play on the right but there's doubts over him as well.
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Well that's amazing, only one tiny issue with this comparison... Aarons played for a team that got relegated like 30 games into the season and AWB in a team that finished 3rd, scoring almost 3x the amount of goals.
AWB really is bad offensively, it's just factual at this point. Anyone who has watched him play without blinders on will tell you this.
Maybe AWB should push up to CDM instead of RW when he goes forward and let Fred or another CM occupy the space further forward.
Or when we play a back 3, put AWB at RCB and get a more offensive RWB/RB
Or when we play a back 3, put AWB at RCB and get a more offensive RWB/RB
If AWB turns out to be a Paulo Ferreira level player, I think that would be a big disappointment. It's also not just about being an attacking full back it's also his play in transition and movement/off the ball runs from an attacking perspective that help a lot. Kyle Walker is by no means fantastic going forward, as his final ball isn't great but he contributes a lot to City's attack in other ways.
If he turns out to be as good as Azpi, I think that would be great, but personally but I think he still has a lot to improve on defensively to get near to that.
I do think it is a part of his game he has to improve. I've noticed at times he can be a bit lazy at times because he knows he can recover, which is fine the majority of the time but it's also something that can be exploited.Somehow the narrative is "bad positioning"
He tackles a lot which means the obvious conclusion is bad positioning, nothing to do with he always deals 1v1 with Wingers.
Attacking statistics can NEVER lie. Eyes do. The "he played for a relegated team" excuse is lame. Norwich were a uber attacking team in spite of getting relegated.
Besides, he has created more chances than Walker who plays right back for Pep Guardiola. He is not remotely as awful going forward as many claim. That is factually hyperbolic. He is certainly not as ineffective as Valencia was in his last year. He just still has loads of room.for improvement. Because his decision making with crosses is still poor. Similar to what holds a Daniel James back currently
Not necessarily true.
In the modern day the top teams need to have full backs that can contribute offensively because 99% of the teams they're facing will play spoiling tactics and sit in and ask you to break them down. The full back has neve been more important than in today's game. Liverpool have a great RW and a great LW but look at the productivity they get from their FB's.
In Chelsea's last title winning season they had Hazard at LW but Alonso's contribution offensively can't be understated.
Real had Ronaldo playing on the left hand side for years yet Marcelo's contribution offensively was still huge.
The idea that with a Sancho type player then the right hand side will be fine is fanciful IMO because teams will exploit AWB's poor offensive game by doubling Sancho and forcing him to use AWB whereas with, for talking sake, a TAA type full back behind him it would be absolutely deadly as you see with Liverpool's success.
Edit to say you're spot on with your final sentence though, of course.
He's an OK right-back for our system, considering we want to play the ball out from the back and he's rubbish on the ball. I mean, that's why Ole wanted rid of Smalling, because he doesn't fit that sort of tactic.
I prefer to trust my eyes over statistics, and I swear I keep seeing AWB around the oppositions box, now unless he’s stood there reading a book, I would definitely say he’s contributing in the attack. So, I completely agree, this notion that he’s only a defensive fullback is nonsense.
I think he and Rashford are victims of is it called recency bias? Basically I think that their form towards the season finishing dipped a good amount, and now Some people on here are treating them as if this form is normal for them.
AWB has been getting a lot better at the attacking side of his game imo, there’s a long way to go with him yet but I think it’s easy to forget how young he still is.
He’ll never be a world class attacking full back so for some he’ll never be good enough, but as a more defensive minded player he’s been great and he should in theory allow whoever ends up on our right side to have a little more freedom in attack.
AWB has been getting a lot better at the attacking side of his game imo, there’s a long way to go with him yet but I think it’s easy to forget how young he still is.
He’ll never be a world class attacking full back so for some he’ll never be good enough, but as a more defensive minded player he’s been great and he should in theory allow whoever ends up on our right side to have a little more freedom in attack.
The problem is he can't play with the ball. Even at DM, he needs to be able to play with the ball.
Saw a stat saying that TAA only had 2 more open play assists than AWB this season?
That isn't to downplay freekick and corner assists because they're a skill themself, but shows AWB isn't as bad as everyone thinks, in my opinion. Especially when you consider one is thought of as a Cafu incarnate and one is considered absolutely ineffectual in the opposition half.
That isn't to downplay freekick and corner assists because they're a skill themself, but shows AWB isn't as bad as everyone thinks, in my opinion. Especially when you consider one is thought of as a Cafu incarnate and one is considered absolutely ineffectual in the opposition half.
3 more assists as per whoscored. 2 more assists as per Understat.
Either way, not a massive difference especially when you consider the narrative between the two.
Probably why you shouldn't just rely on stats, there is clearly a massive difference in attacking play between the 2.
Yeah but he creates lot of chances. TAA is so far ahead in attacking/passing.
I agree with your general point, for example AWB completed 54 dribbles, only Ricardo Pereira and Stevens completed more among RBs an LBs, his dribble completion rate is very good too.
I haven't said there isn't. My original point is that AWB isn't as bad as people like to make out.
Yeah, absolutely TAA is clearly a level or 2 above in that regard. The crossfield switches of play etc. But AWB isn't as bad as a lot like to make out.
Why do people keep bringing up stats? They're irrelevant to the issue.
It's the same as Lukaku — their output when it comes to their main jobs (goals/tackles+assists) looks good, but it's clear that their technical limitations can't be ignored if we're aspiring to be a top team. People can disagree, but the opposition noticed this a while back and it was pretty obvious against Palace (who'd know best), Chelsea and Southampton that he was targeted as a weak point while we were in possession. Considering the supposed reason for Ole not being a fan of Smalling, it's a funny situation to be in.
It's the same as Lukaku — their output when it comes to their main jobs (goals/tackles+assists) looks good, but it's clear that their technical limitations can't be ignored if we're aspiring to be a top team. People can disagree, but the opposition noticed this a while back and it was pretty obvious against Palace (who'd know best), Chelsea and Southampton that he was targeted as a weak point while we were in possession. Considering the supposed reason for Ole not being a fan of Smalling, it's a funny situation to be in.
I've seen this too, and in fact i think it is the first thing he should work to improve. Whether you call it laziness, or lack of concentration, it is definately an area he can improve in. Often time he is able to recover from mispositioning or lack of concentration, because he is fast, has a spiders legs and above average tackle timing abilities. But sometimes he's caught off guard enough for it to become obvious goalscoring opportunities. Latest examples are both goals against Sevilla. He really needs to improve this imo, because any loss of speed or agility means he's not able to "save himself" from errors.
After this is improved i'd surely want him to improve his awareness, passing and technique. Think they are working on this though, as a part of Ole's overall requirements for the players.
All this said, i'm not complainting about AWB. He improved quite significantly from last year in his attacking contributions, and i wouldn't be surprised to see him deliver better on that end this coming season. Of course, getting a proper RW would help. but that is for another thread.
This thread is home to so many posters who truly dont understand why we bought him and what he does when he plays. Instead of trying to understand it, they say he isnt something else and complain about it. We had a terrible defensive record, we signed a defensive fullback and a ball playing CB and through playing 3 at the back with 2 more fullbacks as defensive wingbacks at certain times in some big matches we had a good defensive record. 18 goals conceded from open play in the premier league, the least of any team.
For some reason people think everything is sorted then and we need to abandon what we did to have a good defensive record. We didnt concede a lot so now we can play wingers at fullback again.
Guess what happens if we do that
The reason we have a good defensive record is the defensive players picked and the defensive setup of the team. The only way we stay solid at the back is if we bring in better CB players who can do the same job with less support from DMs and fullbacks and who are trusted to deal with things as 2 CBs.
So we need a better defensive CB and/or a "DM" who is more active without the ball than Pogba. And then you can have your flying fullbacks like Liverpool. Because then our midfield and defence can do the work theirs does, that allows the fullbacks to bomb on. Even if you look at Bayern who play the same formation, albeit it they play differently than we do, they have had Pavard as their first choice RB and hes also a CB. Lucas Hernandez who they spent all that money on played most of his games as a LB when Davies wasnt playing. He's another who can play CB as well as LB. These are also the players France used as fullbacks when they won the world cup a few years ago.
I will grant you that especially during the tournament, the end product from those CBs playing fullback was probably better than AWB's. But he also tends not to have a real wideman to play with, someone who is actually good in wide areas on the right. Thats a problem we've had since Nani and Valencia were competing for the spot. We signed Mata and since then we've always seemed to think its a good idea to have our RW be someone who wants to play narrow and leave all the space on the right, rather than cause a problem on the right side. Greenwood individually is a great option on the right just as a player to get the ball around the edge of the box and shoot. But that does nothing to help the right fullback in the buildup. And James has unfortunately been very ordinary on the right
For some reason people think everything is sorted then and we need to abandon what we did to have a good defensive record. We didnt concede a lot so now we can play wingers at fullback again.
Guess what happens if we do that
The reason we have a good defensive record is the defensive players picked and the defensive setup of the team. The only way we stay solid at the back is if we bring in better CB players who can do the same job with less support from DMs and fullbacks and who are trusted to deal with things as 2 CBs.
So we need a better defensive CB and/or a "DM" who is more active without the ball than Pogba. And then you can have your flying fullbacks like Liverpool. Because then our midfield and defence can do the work theirs does, that allows the fullbacks to bomb on. Even if you look at Bayern who play the same formation, albeit it they play differently than we do, they have had Pavard as their first choice RB and hes also a CB. Lucas Hernandez who they spent all that money on played most of his games as a LB when Davies wasnt playing. He's another who can play CB as well as LB. These are also the players France used as fullbacks when they won the world cup a few years ago.
I will grant you that especially during the tournament, the end product from those CBs playing fullback was probably better than AWB's. But he also tends not to have a real wideman to play with, someone who is actually good in wide areas on the right. Thats a problem we've had since Nani and Valencia were competing for the spot. We signed Mata and since then we've always seemed to think its a good idea to have our RW be someone who wants to play narrow and leave all the space on the right, rather than cause a problem on the right side. Greenwood individually is a great option on the right just as a player to get the ball around the edge of the box and shoot. But that does nothing to help the right fullback in the buildup. And James has unfortunately been very ordinary on the right
Personally I'm not in the least bothered by AWB not being stupendous in attack. His job is a supporting one. It's a far bigger problem that we don't have a world class right flanker ahead of him
Frankly with AWB, we got the player we needed, but now realise that he is not the player we want.
In simple terms, last two seasons ago we were desperate for competent and capable right-sided defender to shore up that part of our defence. That is what we needed and that is what AWB has been able to provide. However, the problem is not with AWB it is with us because we thought we were buying a player that would get to Trent. We bought AWB to solve the problem we had, not the one we have. We bough AWB and realise that we really wanted TAA.
Can AWB be the player we want him to be? Of course he can; players can be coached to improve and get better. However, it may also be that what we bought is what we got - a really good defensive right-back, who is severely limited going forward.
One thing I would say though is that we need to stop comparing AWB to TAA. He is not TAA and may never ever become TAA. As such, comparisons with TAA will do nothing to help either his confidence or his development.
In simple terms, last two seasons ago we were desperate for competent and capable right-sided defender to shore up that part of our defence. That is what we needed and that is what AWB has been able to provide. However, the problem is not with AWB it is with us because we thought we were buying a player that would get to Trent. We bought AWB to solve the problem we had, not the one we have. We bough AWB and realise that we really wanted TAA.
Can AWB be the player we want him to be? Of course he can; players can be coached to improve and get better. However, it may also be that what we bought is what we got - a really good defensive right-back, who is severely limited going forward.
One thing I would say though is that we need to stop comparing AWB to TAA. He is not TAA and may never ever become TAA. As such, comparisons with TAA will do nothing to help either his confidence or his development.
The most amazing thing is that he is a recently converted winger. So how did he get as far as he did in his career as an attacking player? He is a very good 1 on 1 defender. Quite possibly the best in Europe. But you would think that a guy who played his entire life as a winger would have the attacking side of the game down already before being turned into a FB, otherwise, how did he get as far as he did in the first place???
Or you could look at it the other way around. He got converted into a fullback because his attacking output for a winger wasn't too impressive.
He got converted to a FB because one day at training they were short in that position so he played there and shut down Zaha. Doesn't change the fact that he got to the highest level there is as a winger. So how did he get that far and not be able to attack???
This thread neeeds an update, to be honest. It started by saying he's a world-class tackler but can't play the ball... Which was true when this thread was open.
If you watched AWB's performances after the break – last EPL matches and Europa League ones (esp. when we lost to Sevilla), it was shocking how he has regressed in tackling. He's gotten better at playing the ball, to be fair, but his tackling has regressed, for sure. Why does it have to be one or the other? Frustrating
If you watched AWB's performances after the break – last EPL matches and Europa League ones (esp. when we lost to Sevilla), it was shocking how he has regressed in tackling. He's gotten better at playing the ball, to be fair, but his tackling has regressed, for sure. Why does it have to be one or the other? Frustrating
To be fair though. He’s one the best dribbler of full backs in the league. His dribbling successful rate is very high, only Ricardo Pereira scored higher. Bissaka is actually on 13th for best successful dribble all position in the league. Trent & Walker are nowhere near for this aspect. Which tells you how he used to be winger.
His ability on the ball when he’s being pressed is the issue. Seems like he has no vision and can’t make good decision making when not given enough space. He’s still young and can still improve his composure on the ball. I think the coach needs to tell him to dribble much more before crossing.
First off, that's just the story Palace say. I would say that if he were good as a winger, he wouldn't have been converted just because he had to play one game as a fullback.
And second, there are many examples of players starting at one position and then moving to another. Quite a few CBs have been strikers in their youth days and that doesn't mean they are any good in attack.
Shits the bed when he has the ball. He started the whole shit before Bruno gave the foul away by giving the ball away needlessly.
We got fleeced big time by Palace.
We got fleeced big time by Palace.
This thread should be locked because it gets bumped during games. It’s boring
130m wasted on 2 defenders and people say our transfers has gotten better.
Lamptey who was less than couple of millions is head and shoulders above this guy.
Lamptey who was less than couple of millions is head and shoulders above this guy.
He’s shit on the ball. Absolutely dog shit.
Very good tackler, but his passing, dribbling, positioning & crossing is lower league level. Palace robbed us. Brighton’s Lamptey, who cost about £5m looks the far better player.
Very good tackler, but his passing, dribbling, positioning & crossing is lower league level. Palace robbed us. Brighton’s Lamptey, who cost about £5m looks the far better player.
Lamptey is a wingback.
He started his career as RB and is still a RB. He is deployed as RWB for Brighton
Get this absolute danger out of our club. Absolutely pathetic.
He was a winger who now plays wingback. He also made a defensive mistake which Greenwood should have done capitalised on.