unSporting Club de Portugeezers

SparkedIntoLife

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Just to say that, although this thread has been fractious, I really enjoy the contribution of the Portuguese (and other foreign) posters. It's really quite hard to get a flavour of Portuguese football so your knowledge and opinions are very interesting.

I would say that the Portuguese league isn't especially strong but is punching above its financial weight. There is a lot to be proud about at the moment, including persistently good young players, clever scouting/recruitment in the clubs and a recent influx of very promising coaches.

On the last point, what might explain the rise in Portuguese coaches (assuming I've judged that correctly)? Is it that Mourinho has been a pivotal pioneer for coaching excellence and therefore has encouraged the next generation? Or has there been great investment in developing coaches? Or maybe I'm clueless and Portugal has always been blessed with an abundance of good ones?
 

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No idea on right or wrong, just popped in for a read because I have a (minor) soft spot for Sporting Lisbon.

It's a style thing ultimately. I suppose he could describe it the way you just did, but it's a bit bland and gets lost in guff.

To describe such a personality with a comms lackey I can't think of any other world-reknowned combo that drives the point home. It's obvious that there's several orders of magnitude separating their actions, that shouldn't (and doesn't IMO) require clarification.
Oh my, one guy arrives at home and this thread keeps going and going, surreal ... :lol:
 

SCP

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On the last point, what might explain the rise in Portuguese coaches (assuming I've judged that correctly)? Is it that Mourinho has been a pivotal pioneer for coaching excellence and therefore has encouraged the next generation?
It is a fair point, basically he opened the doors for others to go abroad, but tbf the first ones who started to bring academic and scientific knowledge to the game were José Maria Pedroto, Carlos Queiroz or Jesualdo Ferreira, but Mourinho took it to another level in 2002.
 

SparkedIntoLife

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It is a fair point, basically he opened the doors for others to go abroad, but tbf the first ones who started to bring academic and scientific knowledge to the game were José Maria Pedroto, Carlos Queiroz or Jesualdo Ferreira, but Mourinho took it to another level in 2002.
Ah yes, I wondered if Quieroz might have been apart of it. Although he failed at Madrid and hardly shone as NT coach, he was praised as a football genius by some top people like Ferguson.

Who would you say has the greatest potential of this new generation? I'm super impressed by Marco Silva. Nuno Espírito Santo could really improve over the next few years. I know he was seen as a bit disappointing towards the end at Valencia and at Porto but I've seen some early interviews and footage of Wolves and been very surprised. He is very engaging personally and, despite his pragmatic reputation, he has them playing good football after a very short time.

However, all in all, Jardim is standing out as the next top manager. Potentially the best manager in the world in a few years. Monaco is an extremely well ran club but I'm convinced that Jardim's influence has played a big role in them selling players for approximately £300M in the last window (including Mbappe's future fee).
 

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No idea on right or wrong, just popped in for a read because I have a (minor) soft spot for Sporting Lisbon.

It's a style thing ultimately. I suppose he could describe it the way you just did, but it's a bit bland and gets lost in guff.

To describe such a personality with a comms lackey I can't think of any other world-reknowned combo that drives the point home. It's obvious that there's several orders of magnitude separating their actions, that shouldn't (and doesn't IMO) require clarification.
Fair enough, it doesn't really matter. Just though it was unnecessary.
 

antohan

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Fair enough, it doesn't really matter. Just though it was unnecessary.
Sure, I just would rather read the Portugeezers at each others' throats without that background noise.

And there's also the fact I once called a mod Stalin. Of course it was a light hearted reference to censorship, not murdering >50M people.
 

SCP

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Ah yes, I wondered if Quieroz might have been apart of it. Although he failed at Madrid and hardly shone as NT coach, he was praised as a football genius by some top people like Ferguson.
The problem with Queiroz wasn't his academic knowledge or methodology, he missed on human relations and man management.

Per example, after the 2 under 20's FIFA World Cups he won in 1989 and 1991, he then missed the qualification to USA 94 with the main team, after he replaced Bobby Robson at Sporting, he was not able to win the league, only 1 Portuguese Cup.

That with the fact he lost a derby with Benfica at home 3:6, with some bad tactical decisions, was enough to be seen as a failure, add to that players like Balakov, Valckx, or Cadete complaining they liked more to work with Robson because he was more pratical and human while Queiroz was more academical and boring to work.

But at the Federation Level he had more or less the same influence as Pekerman had to Argentina at youth level, bringing on players like João Pinto, Paulo Sousa, Fernando Couto, Rui Costa, Jorge Costa, Abel Xavier or Figo, no doubt about that.

Who would you say has the greatest potential of this new generation?
I will try to put this in 2 lines. The first I don't know if it can be classified as potential, maybe more reality, Jardim from Monaco, Paulo Fonseca from Shaktar Donetsk and Mourinho, surely the best 3 atm.

On the second lines we have with potential Sergio Conceição from Porto, 6 good months at Nantes, good start at Porto, surprised me tbh.

Then not potential, but probaly the coach with more knowledge of the game in Portugal, maybe only Mou has more than him is Jorge Jesus, controversial, without academic and cultural background, but some of the players who worked with him said he was one of the best they worked with, such as David Luiz, Aimar, Gaitan and others.

Rui Vitoria from Benfica he doesn't excite me much, but since he won titles has to be recognised, then yes Marco Silva, I still want to see how is going to be his evolution in England, AVB is now on China, went to soon to England, mixed signs at Zenit, don't know what are his plans, finally Nuno Espirito Santo from Wolves, also deserves a mention.

For the future to look, Miguel Cardoso from Rio Ave, former assistant to Carvalhal, Domingos, Paulo Fonseca, and involved on the Academy at Shaktar, Nuno Manta from Feirense and maybe Daniel Ramos from Maritimo, I guess those are the names to look and keep an eye.
 

SparkedIntoLife

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Thank you SCP. Very interesting and I'll keep a look out for those you mentioned. I remember Conceicao as a player for Inter and Porto so it's nice to hear he's doing well as a coach.

I'd heard less of Fonseca but he seems to be disproving the idea that taking over a long term, successful manager is doomed to fail (ala Mourinho's quotes on not wanting to immediately replace Sir Alex).

It's my view that the Portuguese and Germans (and maybe Spanish to some degree) are producing the best emerging coaches. I watched Trainer on Netflix and was struck by how intelligent and eloquent the German coaches in development were. This seems to be the case with the recent Portuguese coaches.

For all England's advancements recently at youth level, there's still a dearth of talented coaches. I wonder if it's the mindset of 'get into em, f@*k em up' which sadly seems prevalent even today. It's the notion that players are too thick to understand tactics so they are fed team talks on heart and bollocks rather than positioning and lines of movement.
 

Android1974

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Funny West Ham had the nerve to divulge the email where they “threaten” they'll get Krychowiak from PSG… which ended up in West Brom! :lol:
 

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Thank you SCP. Very interesting and I'll keep a look out for those you mentioned. I remember Conceicao as a player for Inter and Porto so it's nice to hear he's doing well as a coach.

I'd heard less of Fonseca but he seems to be disproving the idea that taking over a long term, successful manager is doomed to fail (ala Mourinho's quotes on not wanting to immediately replace Sir Alex).

It's my view that the Portuguese and Germans (and maybe Spanish to some degree) are producing the best emerging coaches. I watched Trainer on Netflix and was struck by how intelligent and eloquent the German coaches in development were. This seems to be the case with the recent Portuguese coaches.

For all England's advancements recently at youth level, there's still a dearth of talented coaches. I wonder if it's the mindset of 'get into em, f@*k em up' which sadly seems prevalent even today. It's the notion that players are too thick to understand tactics so they are fed team talks on heart and bollocks rather than positioning and lines of movement.
The Italians for me deserve always a honorable mention, the Spanish have a very specific understanding of the game, maybe the Germans have the most progressives on Europe, and I would say the Portuguese are the ones who adapt faster to different realitys because they are used to work under low budgets, players who sometimes are not paid on time.

The conditions no German, maybe not even Spanish or Italians would accept to work, oh and I forgot also the Argentinians, where do you have 2 schools of thought, those who follow Menotti/Pekerman/Bielsa and those who follow Bilardo and Bianchi.

I don't know what the current problem is in England, but sometimes there are some unfair judgements, per example, you see guys like Allardyce, Pullis, Dyche, they are not valued by the media, but they always deliver in terms of results under hard conditions.

Then you have the ones the media likes more to value, like Howe, more progressive, but where you feel you need to see him working outside Bournemouth to see what can he really deliver under pressure.

The thing is in the 70's, 80's, 90's you had Clough, Revie, Allison, Venables, Robson, Ferguson and others, maybe now what is missing is a big caracther working on a club where he can deliver in terms of titles, and eliminate the somewhat generalized pessimism regarding everything british related to players and coaches imo.
 

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Funny West Ham had the nerve to divulge the email where they “threaten” they'll get Krychowiak from PSG… which ended up in West Brom! :lol:
With hidden adresses :lol:
 

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I think West Ham tried to 'bully' Sporting and got more than what they bargained for.
 

SparkedIntoLife

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The Italians for me deserve always a honorable mention, the Spanish have a very specific understanding of the game, maybe the Germans have the most progressives on Europe, and I would say the Portuguese are the ones who adapt faster to different realitys because they are used to work under low budgets, players who sometimes are not paid on time.

The conditions no German, maybe not even Spanish or Italians would accept to work, oh and I forgot also the Argentinians, where do you have 2 schools of thought, those who follow Menotti/Pekerman/Bielsa and those who follow Bilardo and Bianchi.

I don't know what the current problem is in England, but sometimes there are some unfair judgements, per example, you see guys like Allardyce, Pullis, Dyche, they are not valued by the media, but they always deliver in terms of results under hard conditions.

Then you have the ones the media likes more to value, like Howe, more progressive, but where you feel you need to see him working outside Bournemouth to see what can he really deliver under pressure.

The thing is in the 70's, 80's, 90's you had Clough, Revie, Allison, Venables, Robson, Ferguson and others, maybe now what is missing is a big caracther working on a club where he can deliver in terms of titles, and eliminate the somewhat generalized pessimism regarding everything british related to players and coaches imo.
Yes, our best managers are the more pragmatic types but they are very much looked down upon here. Alan Curbishley is an example of this. He did a great job at Charlton and West Ham but his dour personality and functional football makes people forget his competency.

I really want to like Eddie Howe but I have huge doubts about him. His signings lately have not had much success and he doesn't seem to really give them a chance. Plus his defensive organisation is poor. Dyche, to me, is less exciting but probably a better all round manager at this point.

Allardyce is the best English manager but he blew his big chance.

Gareth Southgate is a more studious, articulate type who seems to embrace progressive ideas. However, I just don't see any charisma at all or real natural talent. I believe we'll flop at the World Cup (no surprise there). He might develop into a good coach long term but he's done nothing to merit his spot. He was poor at Middlesbrough and underwhelming for the Under 21s. After the Allardyce situation, I'd have been tempted to give the job to John Peacock. Not very well known but he's won two under 17 tournaments with England so has managed most of the current crop to success.

The main issues for me are accessibility and culture. The number of coaches in this country is far less than in the countries we mentioned above where coaches are thriving. It would seem like the coach training isn't desirable enough or prohibitively expensive perhaps. There also isn't a great culture of tactics in English football. Technique is increasingly regarded as important and this is reflected at youth level now but tactical sophistication still seems fairly alien.

Maybe St. George's Park, our new national training base, will address these issues.
 

Globule

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Is this supposed to be David Sullivan's proof that Carvalho was offered to them on transfer deadline day? Because this doesn't show any of that.

And I can't believe for one second this is how clubs do business. It would at least explain how West Ham have regularly failed to bring in the star striker they've been banging on about for the past 6-7 seasons.
 

Bruno Marques

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Jeez, sounds like Schulzes, Merkels and Timmermans of this world ('My right is the rightest!!!!') rather than Hitler/Goebbels. I'd also be careful with the use of 'Nazis' and 'Hitler' everywhere, as a Pole whose family experienced their methods too well (find me a Pole whose didn't)
I was not referring to the atrocities but the type of communication in the early days. Just that.

I see where you are coming from, but as someone with a more detached perspective on Nazism I understood straight away he referred to the use of communication and propaganda and reactions they try to elicit, not content.
Exactly. The type of communication that makes everyone believe that sporting has a lots of enemies. Even inside. I'm talking of a chairman that wanted to go to the court against own sporting fans because they disagreed or criticized him

Imagine a Bournemouth fan complaining about Ed Woodward leaving his wife for a Manchester United employee... it would be nuts.
You focused on the wrong part of that info. You should have focused on the part that he made is new wife boss of a marketing department that was re activated on purpose for her.

No idea on right or wrong, just popped in for a read because I have a (minor) soft spot for Sporting Lisbon.

To describe such a personality with a comms lackey I can't think of any other world-reknowned combo that drives the point home. It's obvious that there's several orders of magnitude separating their actions, that shouldn't (and doesn't IMO) require clarification.
There's another used a lot by other club fans in Portugal. The great leader has a reference for Kim Jong un.
 

1950

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Is this supposed to be David Sullivan's proof that Carvalho was offered to them on transfer deadline day? Because this doesn't show any of that.

And I can't believe for one second this is how clubs do business. It would at least explain how West Ham have regularly failed to bring in the star striker they've been banging on about for the past 6-7 seasons.
"Oi, you mugs. We intend to actually play this fella, so add-ons can only be far-fetched bs, eg Ballon d'Or, Champions League trophy or AVN Award for Best Male Performer. Nothing we'll have to pay for.
Don't even think about declining or we'll be borrowing some deadwood from a sheikh club.

ta,
the Dildo bros"
 

SCP

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Exactly. The type of communication that makes everyone believe that sporting has a lots of enemies. Even inside. I'm talking of a chairman that wanted to go to the court against own sporting fans because they disagreed or criticized him
Unbelievable, after yesteday you keep spining the same propaganda as any spin doctor from Benfica, you are from Vitoria Setubal as I am from Cova da Piedade.
You focused on the wrong part of that info. You should have focused on the part that he made is new wife boss of a marketing department that was re activated on purpose for her.
Again the same spinning from a Carlos Janela of this life, you have no chance here, this is a United Forum mate, go spin that to Cofina, Visão de Mercado and all that crap in Portugal.
There's another used a lot by other club fans in Portugal. The great leader has a reference for Kim Jong un.
Ah, now repeating the same expression used on Benfica Forums, you really are a Setúbal fan, oh yes you are. Tbf we have nice posters from Benfica here, none of them uses those statements here, only you, I wonder why. :lol::lol::lol:
 

Bruno Marques

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Unbelievable, after yesteday you keep spining the same propaganda as any spin doctor from Benfica, you are from Vitoria Setubal as I am from Cova da Piedade.

Again the same spinning from a Carlos Janela of this life, you have no chance here, this is a United Forum mate, go spin that to Cofina, Visão de Mercado and all that crap in Portugal.

Ah, now repeating the same expression used on Benfica Forums, you really are a Setúbal fan, oh yes you are. Tbf we have nice posters from Benfica here, none of them uses those statements here, only you, I wonder why. :lol::lol::lol:
That's f0ckin ridiculous mate, if you felt offended when i didn't even talked directly about you acusing me of beeing of some club i'm not its outrageous on a direct form. I'm stating my opinion has a Vitoria de setubal fan. I know it's hard for you to understand that not everyone in portugal is from one of the big 3
 

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That's f0ckin ridiculous mate
Calm down with the language, you look very excited :cool:
I'm stating my opinion has a Vitoria de setubal fan.
Very similar line of argumentation as the ones used by Carlos Janela, Pedro Guerra, Rui Pedro Braz, maybe is just bad luck on your part. ;)
I know it's hard for you to understand that not everyone in portugal is from one of the big 3
No its not, but don't try to fool me because I am not naive and stupid, by the way nice on your part to leave the schedule from the matches this week, if you want we can always talk on the portuguese football thread, if you have no problems with that of course. :D
 

Bruno Marques

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Calm down with the language, you look very excited :cool:

Very similar line of argumentation as the ones used by Carlos Janela, Pedro Guerra, Rui Pedro Braz, maybe is just bad luck on your part. ;)

No its not, but don't try to fool me because I am not naive and stupid, by the way nice on your part to leave the schedule from the matches this week, if you want we can always talk on the portuguese football thread, if you have no problems with that of course. :D
Yes, I'm excited. You just offended me on one of the hardest ways you could possibly do.

From the 3 you mentioned I only know Pedro Guerra and just because of the emails thing.

I don't need to fool you on that matter. I have 35 years has an adept and saw live my team winning titles.

And of course we will keep talking , I have no problem with you and I will try to keep feeding the Portuguese post
 

SCP

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Yes, I'm excited. You just offended me on one of the hardest ways you could possibly do.

From the 3 you mentioned I only know Pedro Guerra and just because of the emails thing.

I don't need to fool you on that matter. I have 35 years has an adept and saw live my team winning titles.

And of course we will keep talking , I have no problem with you and I will try to keep feeding the Portuguese post
You see all finishes well, and we made this a lively thread, who knows, after this somewhat contentious thread maybe they will keep a eye on you to be promoted. ;)

More seriously, everytime you want go there and we talk everything related with Portugal, unless the subject is of course... Bruno de Carvalho :lol:
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
"Oi, you mugs. We intend to actually play this fella, so add-ons can only be far-fetched bs, eg Ballon d'Or, Champions League trophy or AVN Award for Best Male Performer. Nothing we'll have to pay for.
Don't even think about declining or we'll be borrowing some deadwood from a sheikh club.

ta,
the Dildo bros"
:lol:
 

barros

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AhAh, and he spouts the same propaganda as Guerra or Rui Pedro Braz, who by the way was from the same school as me in Margem Sul, and believe me he is so fanatical about Benfica that everytime they lost a match he would go to the school totally freaked out.

And this is what they call "objective and unbiased media" in Portugal, these muppets never learn. :lol::lol::lol:
Margem sul? Where are you from?
 

barros

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I was not referring to the atrocities but the type of communication in the early days. Just that.



Exactly. The type of communication that makes everyone believe that sporting has a lots of enemies. Even inside. I'm talking of a chairman that wanted to go to the court against own sporting fans because they disagreed or criticized him



You focused on the wrong part of that info. You should have focused on the part that he made is new wife boss of a marketing department that was re activated on purpose for her.



There's another used a lot by other club fans in Portugal. The great leader has a reference for Kim Jong un.
You could compare him to Trump, both cannot keep their mouths shut but Hitler??? Now for any chance are you Ricardinho???
 

Sly

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You could compare him to Trump, both cannot keep their mouths shut but Hitler??? Now for any chance are you Ricardinho???
Very good :lol: I actually thought the same :D
 

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"Oi, you mugs. We intend to actually play this fella, so add-ons can only be far-fetched bs, eg Ballon d'Or, Champions League trophy or AVN Award for Best Male Performer. Nothing we'll have to pay for.
Don't even think about declining or we'll be borrowing some deadwood from a sheikh club.

ta,
the Dildo bros"
:lol:
 

arthurka

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This has to go down as one of the best threads of the year...

The dildo bros might not agree but they can't agree on anything..