US Politics

Revan

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Raoul said:
The system in Europe is infinitely better.
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I don’t agree. You pay less during studies, but you also get worse quality of education, and during the career earn significantly less. This is assuming you do one of the high paying jobs (software, medic, lawyer etc).

My post is only about education. If you factor other things (like work-life balance), then someone might come to another conclusion. But assuming you don’t study history of arts etc, during the course of the career you will be earning far more money in the US compared to Germany (even after you deduct the loan and its interest). In some professions (like software engineer or researcher in AI) the ratio would be something like 3-5x. Sure parts of US are crazy expensive (San Francisco, New York) but Munich (where you would get the best salary in Germany) is hardly that cheap, and even taking the expenses into consideration, money wise you are far better in the US.

If it wasn’t for family reasons, I wouldn’t think twice about moving there.
 

Raoul

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Revan said:
I don’t agree. You pay less during studies, but you also get worse quality of education, and during the career earn significantly less. This is assuming you do one of the high paying jobs (software, medic, lawyer etc).

My post is only about education. If you factor other things (like work-life balance), then someone might come to another conclusion. But assuming you don’t study history of arts etc, during the course of the career you will be earning far more money in the US compared to Germany (even after you deduct the loan and its interest). In some professions (like software engineer or researcher in AI) the ratio would be something like 3-5x. Sure parts of US are crazy expensive (San Francisco, New York) but Munich (where you would get the best salary in Germany) is hardly that cheap, and even taking the expenses into consideration, money wise you are far better in the US.

If it wasn’t for family reasons, I wouldn’t think twice about moving there.
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That may be true for some professions but all things considered, the cost of housing in the US compared with wages is widening - as is the cost of education and the number of young people drowning in debt. There are of course plenty of advantages of living here but the cost of education isn't one of them.
 

Maagge

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Revan said:
I don’t agree. You pay less during studies, but you also get worse quality of education, and during the career earn significantly less. This is assuming you do one of the high paying jobs (software, medic, lawyer etc).

My post is only about education. If you factor other things (like work-life balance), then someone might come to another conclusion. But assuming you don’t study history of arts etc, during the course of the career you will be earning far more money in the US compared to Germany (even after you deduct the loan and its interest). In some professions (like software engineer or researcher in AI) the ratio would be something like 3-5x. Sure parts of US are crazy expensive (San Francisco, New York) but Munich (where you would get the best salary in Germany) is hardly that cheap, and even taking the expenses into consideration, money wise you are far better in the US.

If it wasn’t for family reasons, I wouldn’t think twice about moving there.
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That's looking at just maximising income, which is not exactly a nuanced way of looking at things, but that's to be expected given all parts of society focuses on money as the most desired outcome, so to b speak.

Personally, I'd much rather live in a place where I'm comfortable throughout my life and society doesn't shit on the less well off than maximise my personal income. But you do you, of course.
 

Revan

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Maagge said:
That's looking at just maximising income, which is not exactly a nuanced way of looking at things, but that's to be expected given all parts of society focuses on money as the most desired outcome, so to b speak.

Personally, I'd much rather live in a place where I'm comfortable throughout my life and society doesn't shit on the less well off than maximise my personal income. But you do you, of course.
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I was talking concretely about the discussion that 'student debt is so bad, look how good is in Germany where they don't pay anything' which is not even half of the story. Career-wise, you get more money in the US than Germany, even when you include paying up the debt and adjusted to the costs of living.

I know that it has become trendy to shit on the US nowadays and how they are awful at everything and how European countries are superior, but there is a reason why more Europeans leave for the US than the other way around, and why the best of the best go to the US.

Saying that, I acknowledge that there are things which are better in Europe (superior education is not one of them), and which one is the better place to live is a very subjective matter.
 

Revan

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Raoul said:
That may be true for some professions but all things considered, the cost of housing in the US compared with wages is widening - as is the cost of education and the number of young people drowning in debt. There are of course plenty of advantages of living here but the cost of education isn't one of them.
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Same in Germany. I was paying $1k for my room in Munich. Sure, it is not San Francisco, but the salaries are also significantly lower (and in my profession, we are talking 3x or so lower).
 

Redplane

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Drifter said:
House approves $738bn military bill with money for Trump's Space Force

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/11/house-approves-space-force-military-bill

Looking forward to MSM asking "But where are you going to get the money from". Won't hold my breath.
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Sadly the only people who actually seem to be questioning the excessive spending on DoD are people at DoD itself. Have friends and talked to others who work at various DoD levels around DC and all seem to be amazed at the continued increase in funding which in their eyes is completely unnecessary. If you want to reduce government waste that's the first logical place to start but we ve created a society where both left and right are too afraid to touch it.
 

Florida Man

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Revan said:
I was talking concretely about the discussion that 'student debt is so bad, look how good is in Germany where they don't pay anything' which is not even half of the story. Career-wise, you get more money in the US than Germany, even when you include paying up the debt and adjusted to the costs of living.

I know that it has become trendy to shit on the US nowadays and how they are awful at everything and how European countries are superior, but there is a reason why more Europeans leave for the US than the other way around, and why the best of the best go to the US.

Saying that, I acknowledge that there are things which are better in Europe (superior education is not one of them), and which one is the better place to live is a very subjective matter.
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As someone who had to experience education and general people here in the US, I find this absurd.
 

GiddyUp

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Redplane said:
Sadly the only people who actually seem to be questioning the excessive spending on DoD are people at DoD itself. Have friends and talked to others who work at various DoD levels around DC and all seem to be amazed at the continued increase in funding which in their eyes is completely unnecessary. If you want to reduce government waste that's the first logical place to start but we ve created a society where both left and right are too afraid to touch it.
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It's a great way for federal tax dollars to disappear. Contracts spread wide and far with very little oversight.
 

Revan

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Florida Man said:
As someone who had to experience education and general people here in the US, I find this absurd.
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Campuses of even no-name universities are superior to those of top European universities. The number of professors and administrative staff is far higher in the US, as is the quality of professors (most of the top European professors teach in the US, you rarely see a top American professor teaching in Europe). Most of the universities in top 10, 50, 100 lists are American universities. The number of scientific papers in the top journals and conferences from the US is far higher than from European universities, as is the number of top researchers. Many of the best undergraduate students from Europe go to do a Ph.D. in the US, you rarely see it happening the other way around.

In fact, the only European universities which are held around the same level as top US universities are Cambridge, Oxford, and ETH. The top German university (TUM) at best would be considered second-tier in the US (like Georgia Tech, or university of Central Florida).

So yes, by any measurable metric, the quality of universities in the US is far higher than in Europe.
 

Redplane

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Revan said:
Campuses of even no-name universities are superior to those of top European universities. The number of professors and administrative staff is far higher in the US, as is the quality of professors (most of the top European professors teach in the US, you rarely see a top American professor teaching in Europe). Most of the universities in top 10, 50, 100 lists are American universities. The number of scientific papers in the top journals and conferences from the US is far higher than from European universities, as is the number of top researchers. Many of the best undergraduate students from Europe go to do a Ph.D. in the US, you rarely see it happening the other way around.

In fact, the only European universities which are held around the same level as top US universities are Cambridge, Oxford, and ETH. The top German university (TUM) at best would be considered second-tier in the US (like Georgia Tech, or university of Central Florida).

So yes, by any measurable metric, the quality of universities in the US is far higher than in Europe.
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There are so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to start.

For starters you are blinded by the fact that a major underlying reason those colleges you listed rank high is because those schools receive a ton more research money than most European schools. That is a large reason for the appeal, especially for post grads. And it artificially drives up the rankings. It says very little about the quality of the students or level of education offered. European universities heavily rely on being state funded and don't have to rely on outside donations nearly as much, nor are they the marketing machines American colleges are. No such thing as NCAA there for instance. I don't think most European universities would be supportive of admitting students because they re good at sports.

It is substantially harder to even get into most European universities - at least those in northern Europe. Not to mention you don't see a bunch of degree programs that should be considered vocational and are over there.

Comparing graduate school in the US to the way most European universities seem to run is a far more useful comparison than looking at the undergraduate level - and there are some definite benefits the US can offer there - again - especially when it comes to tapping into research funds and overall endowments. Which again - is the money factor. I can't argue against attracting top professors etc because they ll have the financial resources to do research. That's the same way the world works with any other jobs... Which is what being a professor is, and to some degree a graduate student is as well.

Lastly for now - not having to sign your life away because of ridiculous amounts of money for tuition is probably helpful. That's a major plus for college level education outside the US. It doesn't mean the education in this country is better. It's a hell of a lot more expensive and it shouldn't be. There are definitely some great schools in this country but the arguments you use are heavily generalized and overlook the issue that great education and those achievements in rankings only serve the very few in America. Much more so than in other places around the world.
 
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fishfingers15

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Mark fecking Meadows the champion of the balanced budgets who was willing to shut down the government not to be a part of debt culture under Democrats, ended up bending and taking as much as he can under Trump. Good fecking riddance.
 

Florida Man

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Revan said:
Campuses of even no-name universities are superior to those of top European universities. The number of professors and administrative staff is far higher in the US, as is the quality of professors (most of the top European professors teach in the US, you rarely see a top American professor teaching in Europe). Most of the universities in top 10, 50, 100 lists are American universities. The number of scientific papers in the top journals and conferences from the US is far higher than from European universities, as is the number of top researchers. Many of the best undergraduate students from Europe go to do a Ph.D. in the US, you rarely see it happening the other way around.

In fact, the only European universities which are held around the same level as top US universities are Cambridge, Oxford, and ETH. The top German university (TUM) at best would be considered second-tier in the US (like Georgia Tech, or university of Central Florida).

So yes, by any measurable metric, the quality of universities in the US is far higher than in Europe.
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Bang out of order. I will fight you for this. Just kidding
 

Florida Man

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@Revan I'd argue that Georgia Tech is top tier. That is, if you count being a top 30 school as top tier.

I'm a tad skeptical of the ranking system here. Just some quick research shows me that factors such as student population, salaries of faculty and staff, and being predominantly English speaking are considered into rankings. Not arguing that it's trash, but it's something I've always wondered about.

Also, while we have some of the best universities in the world, those are a tiny fraction of all the universities here. I can only speak on UCF and other than a few programs, I don't think high quality is something I'd describe of the education there. Majority of the students I knew, who at least tried to succeed, essentially crammed notes and memorize in order to pass tests. Many others I've noticed, I only wonder how they even got into college in the first place.
 

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‘Cutting Social Security is murder’: Flood of public outrage greets Trump proposal to slash benefits for hundreds of thousands

“We cannot let Trump get away with this cruelty. An attack on any part of Social Security is an attack on the entire system.”
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“This policy change is abhorrent and absolutely unjustifiable.”

“We all know that the cruelty is the point with this administration, but this sinks to yet another low.”

“This would be a crushing blow to me and my family.”

Those are just a few of the more than 1,700 official comments members of the U.S. public have left on President Donald Trump’s proposed Social Security rule change, which could strip lifesaving disability benefits from hundreds of thousands of people.

“They want to destroy every part of Social Security, including retirement benefits, and turn it over to their criminal friends on Wall Street. We must stop Trump’s plan.”
—Alex Lawson, Social Security Works

The proposal received hardly any media attention when it was first published in the Federal Register in November. But recent reporting on the proposed rule change, as well as outrage from progressive Social Security advocates, sparked a flood of public condemnation and calls for the Trump administration to reverse course.

Backlash against the proposal can be seen in the public comment section for the rule, where self-identified physicians, people with disabilities, social workers, and others have condemned the change as monstrous and potentially deadly. The number of public comments has ballooned in recent days, going from less than 200 to more than 1,700 in a week.

The public comment period ends on January 17, 2020. Comments can be submitted here.

“Cutting Social Security is murder and this immoral administration knows it,” wrote one commenter. “I will fight it every way I can.”

A commenter who identified as Karla Kirchner said Social Security is her “only source of income.”

“If I lose my checks, there will be nothing left to keep me alive,” Kirchner wrote.

The Trump administration’s proposal would add another layer of complexity to the process of obtaining Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefits.

If implemented, the rule change would require people categorized by the federal government as Step 5 recipients—typically older individuals with serious physical ailments or mental illness—and others to re-prove their benefit eligibility every two years.

Critics and policy experts warned that the goal of imposing more onerous eligibility requirements on disabled Social Security recipients is to slash people’s benefits. An estimated 4.4 million people would be subject to the new requirement if the Trump administration’s proposal takes effect, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Alex Lawson, executive director of progressive advocacy group Social Security Works, wrote in an op-ed last week that “there is no justification for this policy.”

“The United States already has some of the strictest eligibility criteria for disability benefits in the world,” wrote Lawson. “More than half of all claims are denied.”

Lawson urged members of the public to call their elected officials and leave a comment on the Trump administration’s proposal because “if they are allowed to get away with this attack, it will be only the beginning.”

“They want to destroy every part of Social Security, including retirement benefits, and turn it over to their criminal friends on Wall Street. We must stop Trump’s plan,” Lawson said. “If we let the politicians in Washington, D.C., take away some people’s earned benefits, it means they can take away all of our earned benefits.”
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Trump as more important priorities like a Military Deterrent and Space Force.
 

Florida Man

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berbatrick said:
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I sort of see what she’s getting at but that’s some rich people type shit where they have the privilege to sit their and manifest their perfect world. Broke people have more pressing things facing them like rent, healthcare, job security, rights to be getting into manifestation stuff.
 
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