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WI_Red

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We are looking at it with a different specs.

If i were them, living in rural america, shit education standard, never seen the world beyond local mall, heavilly induced by local evangelicals i would probably be like them

Actually i pity them to be fair..
Not an excuse in this day of information availability.

And while I can see why from afar they may seem pitiable, when you have lived amongst them you retain no pity, only contempt. At best.
 

calodo2003

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Not an excuse in this day of information availability.

And while I can see why from afar they may seem pitiable, when you have lived amongst them you retain no pity, only contempt. At best.
You certainly lived in a hot bed of mental deficiency.

I still can’t get over yoga being banned in public schools.
 

WI_Red

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You certainly lived in a hot bed of mental deficiency.

I still can’t get over yoga being banned in public schools.
I have driven through the panhandle and southern GA. I think you have seen similar in your travels.
 

calodo2003

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I have driven through the panhandle and southern GA. I think you have seen similar in your travels.
No doubt. I am in one of the few blue bubbles in GA.

I also lived adjacent to Pasco, Polk, & Manatee counties for years in Florida. You take leaps backwards in time when traveling through large portions of those counties.
 

Blodssvik

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I said it in a different thread, but I'll repeat it here. I believe a refusal for non medical reasons to vaccinate should be grounds for insurance companies to deny paying for treatment of COVID. This has been my stance on other vaccines as well.
Medical bankruptcy for the stupid plebs. It's nice that you have something to gleefully look forward to in these times.
 

WI_Red

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Medical bankruptcy for the stupid plebs. It's nice that you have something to gleefully look forward to in these times.
do I sound gleeful? I am the opposite of gleeful. I am angry and I am scared. My background is as an infectious disease researcher, so I understand the massive benefits a global vaccination program can have (smallpox, polio, etc.). I also understand the huge danger we are in if we do not reach herd immunity. Negative strand RNA viruses mutate, it’s what they do. With a large reservoir of unvaccinated people the amount of variants will be staggering. Also, those in our population who can not get vaccinated for medical reason will have to live the rest of their lives in fear.

people love to talk about freedom and choice. The flip side of that is accountability for actions. Decisions have consequences.
 

berbatrick

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Imagine if someone discovers oil in the west bank, it'll be a capital offence to boycott that.
 

Blodssvik

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do I sound gleeful? I am the opposite of gleeful. I am angry and I am scared. My background is as an infectious disease researcher, so I understand the massive benefits a global vaccination program can have (smallpox, polio, etc.). I also understand the huge danger we are in if we do not reach herd immunity. Negative strand RNA viruses mutate, it’s what they do. With a large reservoir of unvaccinated people the amount of variants will be staggering. Also, those in our population who can not get vaccinated for medical reason will have to live the rest of their lives in fear.

people love to talk about freedom and choice. The flip side of that is accountability for actions. Decisions have consequences.
You sound vindictive and a little gleeful. These attitudes are not isolated among people to just vaccines. People think alcoholics, drug addicts or otherwise "irresponsible" people should also not get access to affordable healthcare.
 

WI_Red

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You sound vindictive and a little gleeful. These attitudes are not isolated among people to just vaccines. People think alcoholics, drug addicts or otherwise "irresponsible" people should also not get access to affordable healthcare.
This is twice now you have accused me of being gleeful. This is twice now I have asked you to show me where I have been.

I believe people with addictions should have access to affordable healthcare because I believe everyone should have access to affordable healthcare to treat medical issues (both physical and mental). Addiction is a medical condition, and as such should be treat as one. Refusal to get vaccinated, except for cases where vaccination puts the person in danger, is not a medical condition. It is a selfish choice made by people who will then count on the rest of society to protect them through herd immunity. Society, rightly, does not force people to get vaccinated. My stance is not one of punishment (or vindictiveness as you put it), it is one of accountability. By choosing to not get vaccinated you are choosing to not take part in the societal "safety net". You are choosing to take a risk that the rest of us will protect you. We make these decisions all the time: Don't want to pay for flood insurance on your house? Well your insurance is not going to pay out if your basement floods. Don't buy the extended warranty on your new laptop? You are not getting a replacement if you drop it and it breaks. If the prospect of increased medical costs for COVID treatment is what pushes people to join the "herd" then so be it.
 

Blodssvik

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This is twice now you have accused me of being gleeful. This is twice now I have asked you to show me where I have been.

I believe people with addictions should have access to affordable healthcare because I believe everyone should have access to affordable healthcare to treat medical issues (both physical and mental). Addiction is a medical condition, and as such should be treat as one. Refusal to get vaccinated, except for cases where vaccination puts the person in danger, is not a medical condition. It is a selfish choice made by people who will then count on the rest of society to protect them through herd immunity. Society, rightly, does not force people to get vaccinated. My stance is not one of punishment (or vindictiveness as you put it), it is one of accountability. By choosing to not get vaccinated you are choosing to not take part in the societal "safety net". You are choosing to take a risk that the rest of us will protect you. We make these decisions all the time: Don't want to pay for flood insurance on your house? Well your insurance is not going to pay out if your basement floods. Don't buy the extended warranty on your new laptop? You are not getting a replacement if you drop it and it breaks. If the prospect of increased medical costs for COVID treatment is what pushes people to join the "herd" then so be it.
No I trust your Word that you are not gleeful. At least not willingly. But I do believe if you advocate medicare for all there should be no provision for "stupid" people. Here over 90% of people want the vaccin and there is no threat of losing healthcare cover.
 

calodo2003

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No I trust your Word that you are not gleeful. At least not willingly. But I do believe if you advocate medicare for all there should be no provision for "stupid" people. Here over 90% of people want the vaccin and there is no threat of losing healthcare cover.
90% of a country is a far higher percentage than what we are experiencing here.

We have major cities with hundreds of thousands of available appointments for vaccines.

We could see the percentage of vaccinations increase starting next week as restrictions will be lifted for adults to get them.

30% of the country refusing to get the shot could be a massive dilemma. And I agree with @WI_Red , if you decide not to get the vaccine after next Monday, that’s on you. No insurance should be used to pay off your medical bills.

Decisions have consequences.
 

WI_Red

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No I trust your Word that you are not gleeful. At least not willingly. But I do believe if you advocate medicare for all there should be no provision for "stupid" people. Here over 90% of people want the vaccin and there is no threat of losing healthcare cover.
@calodo2003 basically said what I was going to. I will just add that at best we are currently heading to 60-65% vaccination at this point. In addition there is a not small percentage of people who are not going back for their second shot. While one shot is pretty good (80% immunity) it further compounds the unvaccinated population.

I am not going to rehash my arguments as to why it is my belief that refusing vaccinations is different than addiction/accidents/etc, so I guess we are just going to agree that we disagree.
 

Carolina Red

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The US is so awesome. This week my wife had two different patients come in that were having to declare medical bankruptcy.

One because she’d run out of medical leave at her job due to being out with Covid for months because she’s a “long hauler”. The other because of the crippling costs of surgeries the person had to have to reconstruct their lower leg and arm from a terrible fall.

Best country on earth and all that

/rant
 

WI_Red

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The US is so awesome. This week my wife had two different patients come in that were having to declare medical bankruptcy.

One because she’d run out of medical leave at her job due to being out with Covid for months because she’s a “long hauler”. The other because of the crippling costs of surgeries the person had to have to reconstruct their lower leg and arm from a terrible fall.

Best country on earth and all that

/rant
I just tapped a keg of homebrew cider. Join me (in spirit) in drinking this shit away for a night.
 

calodo2003

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This could go in multiple threads, but since he is an elected politician, this thread is as good as any...

 

WI_Red

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Ain't this the goddamn truth. The end result of this will still be massive (but now slightly lowers) debt for Wisconsin.

 

langster

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Boondoggling is such an amazing word. :lol:

It's also amazingly apt for many politicians. I'm also sure we all know and have met many others at work to which it could be applied. Feck, I've boondoggled on many occasion :lol:
 

WI_Red

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Wished they fired this dumb cnut into the sun.
There needs to be a yearly cognition test for members of congress. It would rid us of Pelosi/Grassley/Lehey/Feinstein/Shelby and 60% of the republican house.
 

Sweet Square

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There needs to be a yearly cognition test for members of congress. It would rid us of Pelosi/Grassley/Lehey/Feinstein/Shelby and 60% of the republican house.
Agree. I did a thread on this a while back, gerontocracy is a huge issue in western politics. Political ideology and policy is of course very important but it's meaningless if politicians can't do simple functions.
 

Synco

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"Thank you George Floyd..."

How detached from reality can a politician be. (And then there's the GOP nutters.)
 

Drifter

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PA Republican Who Objected to Trump’s Election Loss Has Concluded That Fraud Was Committed… By Republicans

In an interesting twist, Pennsylvania House representative Seth Grove has admitted that Republicans were responsible for voter fraud in the state during the 2020 election.

Grove, who is also the chairman of the PA House State Government Committee, was among the Republicans who wanted Congress to reject the results from his state during the 2020 election. He conducted multiple hearings to question the state’s results in favor of Joe Biden, took part in events that revolved around election conspiracy theories, and spearheaded a letter that claimed administrative actions and legal rulings “undermined the lawful certification of Pennsylvania’s delegation to the Electoral College.”

The Pennsylvania Capital-Star interviewed Grove to ask him about the 10 hearings he conducted on the 2020 vote, plus his sponsorship of legislation to eliminate absentee ballots while proposing voter ID. When reporter Stephen Caruso pressed Grove on his objections to the election results — asking him point-blank “Was there election fraud in 2020?”

Here’s how that went:

Grove: Yes, there was. They have confirmed cases of election fraud.

Caruso: Who committed that fraud in Pennsylvania?

Grove: Right, Republicans. But it’s still election fraud. It doesn’t matter who [commits] it. We don’t want that fraud to occur. And to say there wasn’t any is a lie. Now, I will say there’s not like this mass amount of fraud, that’s going to shift hundreds of thousands of votes. But there was election fraud. We have had repeated, repeated election fraud in this commonwealth for decades.

Caruso: This is not the message that, particularly Republican politicians, were giving to their constituents-

Grove: Some. Not all.
Grove was further pressed on why he didn’t call out the lies that shrouded the 2020 election, and his response to that was “I can’t help people believe everything on the Internet.”

“There are a lot of bad accusations out there. We did our due diligence to try to address them when members had questions,” he continued. “People are going to believe what they believe. The other reason for doing the hearings, you know, we looked at the actual election law, the actual administration [of the] election. And you can hear by the stakeholders testimony or public statements, there was a lot of appreciation for how we did it.”
 

Pexbo

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Huge vote. If it goes to the senate I bet Manchin votes no.