This is a good point I hadn’t considered
US Soccer: No equal pay “because men have more responsibility”
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Anna Kournakova is an example of this. Nowhere near as great or talented as Sharapova but made a fortune off the courts solely off her looks, fair play to her in that regard.
In addition to the Australian women's national team lost 7-0 to the Newcastle Jets u15's.
There are sports where female version isn't far behind in popularit like volleyball and tennis. I think because the female version of these two sports allow more rallies, also because female fans at least in Brazil love volleyball and they are half the population.
The English team is mainly made up of premier league players so it's not surprising that they wouldn't care much about the money. Then you have the African teams of which many play domestically and whatever pay the get means a lot.
I think the female version of some sports might even be ahead of males for popularity. Gymnastics and figure skating are 2 that I'm thinking of. I don't have the numbers, it's just a perception that a lot of the audience at the arenas tend to be girls/young women who take part themselves but aren't as good. For TV they're just more graceful than the men.
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Around the turn of the millenium, was women's tennis just as popular as men's tennis if not more so? On the women's side there was the rise of the Williams sisters which was a huge deal, Hingis was still around and competitive and a star in her own right, Kournikova was huge regardless of her results, there was the resurgence of Capriati who possibly had more hype as a teenager than any other player in living memory, Seles who was hugely popular when she returned to the tour following her stabbing until she retired was still around and reaching grand slam semi-finals and quarter-finals etc. On the men's side Agassi was a big superstar, but Sampras wasn't and there wasn't really much other star power even though players like Kuerten and Rafter were popular.
Of course it goes without saying that generally and whatever the sport US fans would much rather watch US women winning regularly, than non-US men winning regularly, or US men only winning occasionally or rarely. Serena Williams is clearly the biggest tennis star in the US, and her matches consistently generate higher TV ratings there than those of Federer, Nadal or Djokovic which is not surprising.
Yeah in my original post I said that it makes sense for the lower ranked teams players to take it. Just thought that for the players earning crazy money, the honour in playing for your country would be reward enough, and for most it seems is.
well It’s true, that’s why she’s universally disliked as a person.
That's news
I don't think she's universally disliked but I would say she comes off as full of herself and arrogant
If Tennis tournaments were labelled as;
MENS AUSTRALIAN OPEN
Womens Australian Open
Then sure that would be the same.
from reading bits here and there it seems most of the LGBTQ community don’t like her for that exact reason you mentioned.
I’m with everything you’ve written almost.
Yes Men’s Tennis generates more cash. In the cases it generates money on its own, they earn more.
I like countries that offer identical maternity and paternity pay. I’m never going to push a baby out of my body, or feed one from my nipples. But I’m at the same tournament, Bleary eyed and sleep deprived. Yeah I did a little less work but I’m still an equal parent.
Trying to draw point of difference, instead of equalising when it’s fair... is reductive and holds us back as a society.
There's no equal pay in sports. It's dependent on the popularity of the sport you play, how good you are, how popular you are as an individual etc...
Some athletes in the same club earn more than their team mates or players from other clubs.
Its such a lazy statement to demand equal pay when pay is popularity/performance based.
Some athletes in the same club earn more than their team mates or players from other clubs.
Its such a lazy statement to demand equal pay when pay is popularity/performance based.
Male and Female rallies are ab
It’s a VERY anecdotal comment, but the Courier, Sampras, Agassi era was up against a superior product from the women’s game at times.
That’s probably the last time I can remember women’s tennis being more enjoyable. Seles, Davenport, Venus and Serena hitting in escalating speeds kind of crushed any point of difference after that.
We now kind of have the same sport played by two sexes. In eras before we had two different versions of the same sport.
I’ve been to Slams most of my teen/adult life.
It’s a VERY anecdotal comment, but the Courier, Sampras, Agassi era was up against a superior product from the women’s game at times.
That’s probably the last time I can remember women’s tennis being more enjoyable. Seles, Davenport, Venus and Serena hitting in escalating speeds kind of crushed any point of difference after that.
We now kind of have the same sport played by two sexes. In eras before we had two different versions of the same sport.
Agreed. Painful thread.
In regards to US Soccer - From what is known about the English male team, they don't take any of the money they are paid and instead donate it all to charity. Do the US team do this too or do the male national team take home the money?
I don’t think so
They have done so since 2007, gets donated to England Footballers Foundation.
Most would likely take it home. There are English internationals making 2-3x a week as much as some of the Americans do in a year. The majority aren’t in comparable financial situations.
Although I’m sure some of the richer ones likely donate too.
The equal pay thing is ridiculous. Megan Rapinoe thinks she's the Messi of women's soccer. The whole thing has gone to her head.
Yes the USA women's team have done incredibly well. Generating a lot of profit in a fast growing sport. But there's no guarantee that the USA women's soccer team will continue to dominate. In 5 years from now, the likes of Germany, China, Brazil could be so far ahead that the USA become irrelevant.
Like women's soccer, women's boxing is a recent fast growing craze. With Katie Taylor the biggest name. Men's soccer is hundreds of years in the making. Men's boxing is over a thousand years in the making. Katie Taylor is looking to become the first woman to make 1 million for 1 nights work. Tyson Fury made around 140 million for 1 nights work recently.
Should Katie Taylor be kicking and screaming to get the same bread as Fury? No. So I think Rapinoe should shut her cake hole for now and be happy that she's picking up millions through sponsorship, even though she and her teammates couldn't even beat a USA school boy U14 team.
Should the USA women's team get a little more financial support than they already get? Probably, but the equal pay thing is nonsense until women's soccer becomes on a par in popularity with men's soccer globally, and clubs start paying 100 million to transfer a female soccer player from one club to another.
Yes the USA women's team have done incredibly well. Generating a lot of profit in a fast growing sport. But there's no guarantee that the USA women's soccer team will continue to dominate. In 5 years from now, the likes of Germany, China, Brazil could be so far ahead that the USA become irrelevant.
Like women's soccer, women's boxing is a recent fast growing craze. With Katie Taylor the biggest name. Men's soccer is hundreds of years in the making. Men's boxing is over a thousand years in the making. Katie Taylor is looking to become the first woman to make 1 million for 1 nights work. Tyson Fury made around 140 million for 1 nights work recently.
Should Katie Taylor be kicking and screaming to get the same bread as Fury? No. So I think Rapinoe should shut her cake hole for now and be happy that she's picking up millions through sponsorship, even though she and her teammates couldn't even beat a USA school boy U14 team.
Should the USA women's team get a little more financial support than they already get? Probably, but the equal pay thing is nonsense until women's soccer becomes on a par in popularity with men's soccer globally, and clubs start paying 100 million to transfer a female soccer player from one club to another.
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Again, no. The headliner doesn't make more because their name is bigger on the poster.
They make more because more people want to see them than the opening band, which is also the reason the marketing is more aimed towards them.
You're mistaking cause for consequence I'm afraid.
I reckon that in the tennis case it's a bit different, the women are not supposed to be an opening act to the men. Still, the men attract more viewers, and in the end that's what dictates your worth paywise.
Im not. I was making the same point that you did.
Women’s Tennis is not pitched as an opening act at Slams. Slam tickets are not sold as Headliner / Opener.
Yup, I addressed this in the last paragraph.
Apologies. I thought you were talking about earned fees from tournaments. They keep those. Which total mid six figures if the group stage is escaped. (It’s still £250k per player if they lose every game)
Yes, they donate their appearance fees from the FA. (£500-2000 a game) That’s not a tough ask though. Most earning more than £70k a year give more to charity. They (deservedly) earn £70k a week.
It's laughable that you keep using the gate receipts argument like it proves anything
You've chosen a period specifically where the figures suit your agenda. What are they like if you expand the parameters?
For all intensive purposes and for all intents and purposes are exactly the same thing and interchangable, I'm not sure if you know that. Must be an American thing.
I know it's from two months ago, but Jesus H Christ on a fecking quad bike, would you look at the state of this?The question that arises is Berbaclass a genuine poster or some sort of post-ironic spasmobot that's been programmed to appear in selected threads, and be as stupid and annoying as possible?
I suppose we'll just have to watch this space.
He's made for all in tents and porpoises
The question that arises is Berbaclass a genuine poster or some sort of post-ironic spasmobot that's been programmed to appear in selected threads, and be as stupid and annoying as possible?
I suppose we'll just have to watch this space.
The question that arises is Berbaclass a genuine poster or some sort of post-ironic spasmobot that's been programmed to appear in selected threads, and be as stupid and annoying as possible?
I suppose we'll just have to watch this space.
I'm glad that I annoy you.
And would I be correct in saying that you similarly have no stake in the money, yet appear to be arguing (whether directly or indirectly through your loaded language) in favour of equal pay?
That argument doesn’t work in reverse.
Recent craze? Women were playing the precursor to football millennia ago. Even if you want to stick to association football you can look back to the 19th century for women’s football. Perceived as a threat to the men’s game due to the amount of spectators the games were attracting (10’s of thousands to 50,000), the FA strangled the women’s game. Before using historical precedent it’s important that we know our history. I always find the ‘women’s sports should pull themselves up by their own bootstrap’ argument to be stupid anyway.
The Jets U21s (ie a considerable step on from the U15s) played against one of my old teams in a tournament. They were pretty average and ended up dropping to the lowest group, playing amongst the amateur teams. That illustrates the level the women's game is at. Equal pay is nonsense on every level.
So going by this logic do you get annoyed that Mayweather earns more than heavyweights?
As long as he outsells them every time he fights i don't.
Middle weights are FAR closer to heavyweights than women's and men's football are. Heavyweights often spar against lighter weight classes and have lost fights in the past.
Right, but in the post I quoted that wasn’t the argument. Your argument was because a women’s team lost to a team of male teenagers that somehow that illustrates the level of women’s football. Ignoring all the biological differences between the sexes. Your last sentence is superfluous, the best heavyweights will beat the best light middleweights and to use that as an indictment of the standard of the lower weight classes is a really stupid argument.
The level of skill in women's football is not just related to them being physical weaker. They are technically and tactically miles off too.
Using weight classes is not a relevant argument anyway as boxing is fairly unique in that respect. The level of skill at the elite level is roughly the same across weight classes and the varying trade off between speed/power does not affect the spectacle of it.
The low standard of football makes the women's game an impossible watch. That's another reason i don't think pay should be equal. Nobody watches it.
What exactly is the problem here? Last time I checked the US women's NT generated more revenue than the men. Why don't they deserve more money?
Disagree with almost everything.
What happens 5 years from now is irrelevant. Imagine you do your job well for a year and then come bonues time, your boss comes up with same argument. It's ridiculous.
US right now is probably unique in having a women's team that has been more successful, more popular and more influential than men's team. Can you name some good reasons on why they shouldn't be paid on their own achievements instead of the need to be compared to "global soccer"?
Won't somebody think of the wealthy young men.