US Soccer: No equal pay “because men have more responsibility”

[Amerifan]

Yeah, I get the women's side are the best but I don't know what a fair comparison is. The men getting to the knockouts/quarter-final is probably as big an achievement as the women winning their respective competition IMO based on how far behind the men are and how dominant the women are.

I'm not trying to belittle the achievements of the women either it's just a completely different level without being condescending. Like has been posted above, an U16 boys team hammered the world champions, it just shows the gap.

Premiere League makes the most money because the best players are found there. The lower leagues have winning sides each season, no one is suggesting they receive equal pay. Take away the gender and this is a squad in a less capable league arguing for equality with a squad in a more capable league.

 

[Berbaclass]

Premiere League makes the most money because the best players are found there. The lower leagues have winning sides each season, no one is suggesting they receive equal pay. Take away the gender and this is a squad in a less capable league arguing for equality with a squad in a more capable league.

Yeah pretty much.

 

[the chameleon]

I am with you on this. I used to love watching the UFC but now I cherry-pick their events and watching numerous women's fights just doesn't interest me and they usually have 3-5 on every card now.

It's also tiresome seeing Sky shoving Women's sports down everyone's throats.

I watch sports to watch the elite against the elite and even the best female athletes would get destroyed by D level male athletes. Case in point the Australian Women's national team lost 7-0 to a team of 15-year-old boys and they're ranked 5th in the world.

It’s everywhere. Marvel shoving Captain Marvel. Same issue in tech with women complaining about the lack of women developers. How can tech be sexist when there just aren’t that many women wanting to be developers?

Men’s football is almost a trillion dollar industry l. Women’s football is a tiny fraction of that. The only way there would be equal pay is by taking from men’s football and that would be ludicrous.

 

[RUCK4444]

Its a myth and there is a huge difference in level of both teams. most u16 lads teams would cane the US national womens team.
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/ne...-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/ - This is reality, trashed by an u15 lads team.

Same thing happened to Australia when they were 3rd best team in the world too.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-Newcastle-Jets-15s-Rio-Olympics-warm-up.html

Yeah I guessed as much, begs the question why the women's league is generating more cash then, I know their US women's team are good but they don't get paid to play for their country. I'm confused.com

 

[limerickcitykid]

Yeah I guessed as much, begs the question why the women's league is generating more cash then, I know their US women's team are good but they don't get paid to play for their country. I'm confused.com

Mate, what are you on about?

The NWSL doesn’t generate more cash than anything, it has to be subsidized by the USSF because they can’t even support themselves.

The women’s team do get paid to play for their country. In fact they have base salaries so they are actually paid even if they don’t play.

 

[MTF]

@Atze-Peng literally brought us the quotes from the defense (USSF) in the lawsuit, and no one is going to comment it?!

This is an issue of the WNT having accepted their CBA that gave them more guaranteed money instead of variable/incentive/prize money, and now suing because they would have made more under a CBA with more of a variable component. Unless there's something else in the law that can override this, if I was the judge I'd rule in favor of the USSF. A contract is a contract, they can renegotiate when its up for renewal or whenever else the contract allows for amendment.

 

[limerickcitykid]

@Atze-Peng literally brought us the quotes from the defense (USSF) in the lawsuit, and no one is going to comment it?!

This is an issue of the WNT having accepted their CBA that gave them more guaranteed money instead of variable/incentive/prize money, and now suing because they would have made more under a CBA with more of a variable component. Unless there's something else in the law that can override this, if I was the judge I'd rule in favor of the USSF. A contract is a contract, they can renegotiate when its up for renewal or whenever else the contract allows for amendment.

Of course the judge will rule in favour of the USSF, everyone knows it even the women.

The women don’t want “equality” they want their cake and to eat it too. Their whole complaint is about FIFA payments which has nothing to even do with USSF. They have no legal standing at all. Their goal isn’t to win in court though, it’s a smearing campaign to label the USSF as sexists and discriminatory in order to settle and to get paid even more and get even more benefits.

They’ve been offered the exact same deal as the men and turned it down. There is a reason for that.

 

[padr81]

Yeah I guessed as much, begs the question why the women's league is generating more cash then, I know their US women's team are good but they don't get paid to play for their country. I'm confused.com

I think the womens national team is probably earning more than the mens (thought I struggle to believe even that). There is no way the womens league is earning anything close to the MLS imho. The National Womes Soccer League gets an average attendance of 7.5k (which in fairness is great for womens football). The mens average is somewhere around 20k though alot of teams only average about 15k or so and the a couple of clubs consistently over 40, with Atlanta averaging 52,000. I honestly see no argument for equal pay other than "We win our WC and they don't."

 

[Charles Miller]

Can' be true that "the job of a [men’s national team player] carries more responsibility within US Soccer than the job of a [women’s national team] player,” for the simple fact the US men's nt is irrelevant in the football world, and the US women's nt is one of the major powers in the sport.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Money talks. If women soccer is more lucrative than, they will be paid more. However, I doubt it is. If it was, you would see David Beckham, Floyd money maywether, and other celebrities with cash pumping their money into their game.
I m all for equal pay, but the structure will be imbalanced if they started to pay women more or equal to men if the accounts doesn’t add up.

In tennis, all the Grand Slams have equal prize money for men and women. It's certainly possible that the men bring in more of the revenue, and if that's the case then I guess that means the structure is imbalanced and that the accounts don't add up.

So what, though?

 

[He'sRaldo]

Does the title actually embody the arguments being put forth? Because it reads more like a clickbait title, to be honest.

 

[Berbaclass]

In tennis, all the Grand Slams have equal prize money for men and women. It's certainly possible that the men bring in more of the revenue, and if that's the case then I guess that means the structure is imbalanced and that the accounts don't add up.

So what, though?

I personally don't think they should be equal, I think it's unfair to the men. They don't play as much as the men and I'm going to take an educated guess that they garner less viewing figures than the men too.

 

[Greck]

Close thread.

Thread starts here ie the actual arguments made not the ones the media butchered to trivialise a legitimate well argued court filing

 

[NotThatSoph]

I personally don't think they should be equal, I think it's unfair to the men. They don't play as much as the men and I'm going to take an educated guess that they garner less viewing figures than the men too.

Yes, you've made your stance quite clear by taking up 1/6th of the comments, but thanks for letting me know.

 

[Berbaclass]

Yes, you've made your stance quite clear by taking up 1/6th of the comments, but thanks for letting me know.

 

[Snow]

The OP is sad and pathetic. That your employer would speak that way publicly about you is ludicrous. Is this Trump's America playing a part here, that speaking like this about people is the norm? Such bullshit. From the perspective of the Football Association both of the national teams are working the same job. Arguably the women's job is bigger since the women play more NT games. They certainly don't train less than the men so we know that they work as hard. The fact that the men's team would batter them in a match is irrelevant.

The men's national team get more prize money (sometimes) because of how good the football is in the rest of the world. Comparatively speaking the men's national team is nothing. The women's national team make headlines outside the US for what they do on the pitch. Rest of the world hasn't seen the men kick a ball since 6 years ago.

It's simply embarrassing.

 

[Amerifan]

The OP is sad and pathetic. That your employer would speak that way publicly about you is ludicrous. Is this Trump's America playing a part here, that speaking like this about people is the norm? Such bullshit. From the perspective of the Football Association both of the national teams are working the same job. Arguably the women's job is bigger since the women play more NT games. They certainly don't train less than the men so we know that they work as hard. The fact that the men's team would batter them in a match is irrelevant.

The men's national team get more prize money (sometimes) because of how good the football is in the rest of the world. Comparatively speaking the men's national team is nothing. The women's national team make headlines outside the US for what they do on the pitch. Rest of the world hasn't seen the men kick a ball since 6 years ago.

It's simply embarrassing.

Yea, it’s a US federal government thing. Talk about simply embarrassing.

 

[RUCK4444]

Mate, what are you on about?

The NWSL doesn’t generate more cash than anything, it has to be subsidized by the USSF because they can’t even support themselves.

The women’s team do get paid to play for their country. In fact they have base salaries so they are actually paid even if they don’t play.

Ahhhhh thanks for explaining.

Why does the national team get paid then?

Usually it’s an honour to play for your country and one you don’t get paid to do.

 

[Florida Man]

So now we have posters concerned for the finances of the extremely wealthy.

 

[Drainy]

So now we have posters concerned for the finances of the extremely wealthy.

What are you on about?

 

[LVGSdive]

Whatever about football, that's such a bizarre approach to take to the UFC given how technically accomplished the female fighters are. Even more so coming off the back of the JJ v Zhang fight which was probably the best of the year.

To each their own. Women's fighting just doesn't do it for me and most of their fights just ain't that good which is why I had no interest in it.

 

[NoLogo]

Isn't women football bigger in the US than men football?

And no I'm not calling it soccer, the other thing they call football I refer to as egg ball, which should be the official name anyways but no one is listening to me ffs.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Ahhhhh thanks for explaining.

Why does the national team get paid then?

Usually it’s an honour to play for your country and one you don’t get paid to do.

All national teams pay their players. Maybe back in the good old days they didn’t but they do now.

The top top players usually make so much at club level that they donate their international wages but they are still paid for it.

 

[11101]

Can' be true that "the job of a [men’s national team player] carries more responsibility within US Soccer than the job of a [women’s national team] player,” for the simple fact the US men's nt is irrelevant in the football world, and the US women's nt is one of the major powers in the sport.

But is being a minnow in the men's game still higher profile than being world champions in the women's game? I think it probably is.

 

[pastyfool]

So instead of going through Buzzfeeds news I just read over the actual legal document instead as it is just 30 sites. Written by the defending attorney. Link is here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6807270-USSF-Arguments.html

I am obviously not a legal expert, especially not in US law. But I had dealt with enough legal cases in my life that I can at least get the basic gist out of it.

Spoiler

[... rather, Plaintiffs argue that their CBA is discriminatory only by comparing a few cherry-picked contract terms to provisions in a different CBA negotiated by a different union covering different covering different employees who perform a different job outside of Plaintiffs bargaining unit. ...]

Page 6

Spoiler

[... Plaintiff want the Court to grant them victories they could not achieve at the bargaining table by rewriting a few provisions in their cba to give them additional compensation, without any regard for the give-and-take at the bargaining table that delivered CBA (and it's many beneficial terms for Plaintiffs) in the first place. Plaintiffs ask the Court to do this notwithstanding the indisputable fact that Plaintiffs' CBA does not systematically pay them less than the MNT CBA pays MNT players. ...]

Page 8

Spoiler

[... The EPA is a formulaic statute. To prove a prima facie case under the EPA, Plaintiffs must establish (1) that U.S. Soccer pays them “wages . . . at a rate less than the rate at which [it] pays wages to employees of the opposite sex” (2) “for equal work on jobs the performance of which requires equal skill, effort, and responsibility, and which are performed under similar working conditions” and (3) that Plaintiffs and their male comparators work within the same “establishment.” 29 U.S.C. § 206(d). Even if Plaintiffs could prove all this, U.S. Soccer still would prevail by showing that “such payment is made pursuant to . . . a differential based on [a] factor other than sex.” Id. ...]

Page 9

Spoiler

[... Plaintiffs do not even attempt to prove that they have been paid at a “rate less” than comparable male employees. Instead, they obfuscate and try to glide past the issue. ...]

Page 9

Spoiler

[... (1) “WNT players currently only have the opportunity to receive lower per-game bonuses than MNT players have the opportunity to receive for ‘wins’ and ‘ties’ in most ‘friendlies’”; (2) “WNT players also only have the opportunity to receive lower bonuses than the MNT for winning World Cup qualifying games, for qualifying as a team for the World Cup, and for making the World Cup roster”; and (3) “WNT players further only have the opportunity to receive lower rates of compensation for other non-World Cup tournaments.” (Dkt. 170 at 7.) These three assertions are insufficient to show that Plaintiffs are paid a lesser wage rate than comparable male employees. First, Plaintiffs’ compensation arrangement is complex and multi-faceted, and these cherry-picked assertions ignore all kinds of other compensation paid to them, or on their behalf, for their work as WNT players. [...] Even if the foregoing isolated elements of compensation could fairly be compared between WNT and MNT players (they cannot), and even if Plaintiffs could proceed with a claim without identifying actual male comparators (they cannot), Plaintiffs still provide no legal authority suggesting that they may pick and choose among elements of their overall compensation package to claim that they are paid a lesser wage rate than male employees. ...]

Page 10-11

Spoiler

[... Plaintiffs’ selective complaints about the WNT CBA ignore the fact that the CBA requires U.S. Soccer to pay a $100,000 annual salary to a minimum number of “WNT Contracted Players” each year. (1st King Dec. ¶ 15, Ex. 5 § 8.A.1 and Ex. A.) This salary is paid even when the player does not play. For example, Plaintiff Mallory Pugh was not selected for the team’s Olympic qualifying roster earlier this year, yet she continued to receive her annual salary during the entire qualifying tournament. (2nd King Dec. ¶ 11, Ex. 2.) Plaintiff Alex Morgan is receiving 75% of her $100,000 annual salary even though she cannot play because she is pregnant, and Plaintiff Morgan Brian is receiving
her $100,000 annual salary in the form of severance through the end of March even though her contract was terminated in December and she has not played with the team since then. No MNT player receives a salary from U.S. Soccer, and they are paid only when they are called into camp to play. ...]

Page 11 (this one was my personal favourite)

Spoiler

[... Meanwhile, Dr. Justin McCrary, a labor economist at Columbia University Law School, has considered Plaintiffs’ own (flawed) methodology for calculating what WNT players supposedly would have earned if they had been covered by the MNT CBA (even though Plaintiffs have not submitted the calculation in support of their motion) and has performed a reverse analysis using that same methodology. (McCrary Dec. ¶ 2, Ex. 2 at ¶
49.) His analysis shows that MNT players would have been paid more under the WNT CBA than they received under their own. (McCrary Dec. ¶ 2, Ex. 2 ¶ 49-52.) Under Plaintiffs’ own theory of the case, U.S. Soccer is somehow engaged in sex-based pay discrimination against the WNT and the MNT at the very same time! This, of course, is a logical impossibility and further demonstrates that Plaintiffs are not entitled to summary judgment. ...]

Page 13 (Shots fired)

Spoiler

[... Plaintiffs and the MNT players have very complex and very different compensation arrangements, and Plaintiffs cannot show that they receive a “lesser wage rate” merely by pointing to a few provisions in those overall agreements, especially without identifying any MNT players and providing the Court with a comparative analysis of their overall “wage rates.” For this reason alone, Plaintiffs’ motion should be denied. ...]

Page 13

Spoiler

[... Even if Plaintiffs could show that they were paid lesser wages than appropriate male comparators (which they cannot), they still cannot win summary judgment on their EPA claim without also proving, based on undisputed facts, that they work in the same “establishment” as those male comparators. ...]

Page 14

Spoiler

[... Plaintiffs ignore the portions of that regulation stating that an “establishment” under the EPA ordinarily “refers to a distinct physical place of business rather than to an entire business or ‘enterprise’ which may include several separate places of business.” ...]

Page 14

Spoiler

[... The fact that each team’s separate budget is rolled up into the organization’s overall budget, the fact that the organization has a single marketing department or sells its overall intellectual property rights as a bundle, and the fact that certain aspects of the two teams’ employment terms are ultimately approved by the same person or group of people are insufficient facts to declare as a matter of law that the players all work in a single establishment ...]

Page 15

Spoiler

[... Even Plaintiffs acknowledge that the level of “skill” required for each job in question (WNT player and MNT player) must be “measured by the experience, ability, education, and training required to perform a job.” (Dkt. 170 at 15 (emphasis added), citing 29 C.F.R. § 1620.15.) The overall soccer-playing ability required to compete at the senior men’s national team level is materially influenced by the level of certain physical attributes, such as speed and strength, required for the job. (Morgan Dep. 212-13; Ellis Dep. 291-92.) As Plaintiff Carli Lloyd’s testimony admits, the WNT could not compete successfully against senior men’s national teams because competing against 16- or 17- year-old boys “is about as old as [the WNT] can go.” (Lloyd Dep. 103-04, 106-07; Lloyd Dep. Ex. 15.) Plaintiffs ask the Court to conclude that the ability required of an WNT player is equal to the ability required of an MNT player, as a relative matter, by ignoring the materially higher level of speed and strength required to perform the job of an MNT player. The EPA does not allow this. ...]

Page 16 (More shots fired)

Spoiler

[... Even assuming there are WNT players who could perform the job of MNT player (contrary to Plaintiffs’ own testimony), that is not the point. The point is that the job of MNT player (competing against senior men’s national teams) requires a higher level of skill based on speed and strength than does the job of WNT player (competing against senior women’s national teams). ...]

Page 17 (The shots keep coming)

Spoiler

[... All the foregoing facts about the speed and strength required for the two different jobs are undisputed (which means U.S. Soccer is entitled to summary judgment), but there is also evidence that MNT players face tougher competition, even on a relative basis. (2nd Gulati Dec. ¶ 10.) There is a significantly deeper pool of competition in men’s international soccer than there is in women’s international soccer, even when assessing the issue in relative terms. ...]

Page 18

Spoiler

[... Plaintiffs also fail to demonstrate, as a matter of undisputed fact, that the job of WNT player and the job of MNT player carry equal “responsibility.” In this regard, Plaintiffs essentially just note that they and the MNT players are all soccer players. (Dkt. 170 at 10-11.) This is true, but it is not enough to meet the “equal responsibility” requirement under the EPA. MNT players have responsibility for competing in multiple soccer tournaments with the potential for generating a total of more than $40 million in prize money for U.S. Soccer every four years. (McCrary Dec. ¶ 2, Ex. 2 at ¶ 5.) WNT players compete in only one soccer tournament every four years that has the potential to generate any prize money at all, and most recently that amounted to one-tenth of the amount the MNT players could generate. (Id.) At the same time, the MNT plays in matches watched on television by many millions more people than the WNT. (Moses Dec. Ex. 1.) The average viewership for MNT matches over the first three years of the current WNT CBA was nearly five times as high as that for WNT matches, excluding matches in the Women’s World Cup. (Id.) As for the World Cup, when the MNT last qualified, the ratings for its four World Cup matches were watched by more viewers than all the WNT matches in 2019 combined, Women’s World Cup included. (Id.) In games for which U.S. Soccer holds the television broadcast rights (and therefore can monetize the ratings), the MNT has averaged more than three times as many viewers per game since 2017. (Id.) All these facts demonstrate that the job of MNT player carries more responsibility within U.S. Soccer than the job of WNT player, from an EPA standpoint. Stanley v. U.S.C., 13 F.3d 1313, 1321-23 (9th Cir. 1994) (noting that “the relative amount of revenue generated should be considered in determining whether responsibilities and working conditions are substantially equal”) ...]

Page 18-19 (I quoted the entire part including the case the attorney is reasoning it with, since this is the headline of the Buzzfeed news about "responsibilities. As many assumed already - responsibilities revolve around financial responsibilities aka there is more at stake.)

Spoiler

[... Turning then to other friendly matches, it is true that the MNT bonuses for beating a Top 25 opponent and for drawing any opponent in a friendly are higher than WNT bonuses for beating a Top 25 opponent or drawing a friendly, but the WNT bonus for beating an opponent ranked lower than 25th in a friendly is higher than the MNT bonus for beating an opponent ranked lower than 25th. ...]

Page 22

Spoiler

[... Finally, there is the Women’s World Cup. The MNT CBA included the possibility of higher compensation for winning the 2018 World Cup than WNT players received for winning the 2019 Women’s World Cup. Playing in these different tournaments, however, is not “equal work” under the law. The men’s tournament is substantially more popular, the prize money available to U.S. Soccer for winning it is $34 million higher, the process for qualifying is longer and more arduous, the number of teams who participate is larger, and Plaintiffs do not contend that they could win it. ...]

Page 22

Spoiler

[... To begin with, it is undisputed that the prize money FIFA pays the federation that wins the men’s World Cup is far larger than the prize money it pays the federation that wins the Women’s World Cup, and it is undisputed that the compensation for MNT players associated with the World Cup was negotiated with this substantial FIFA prize money in mind. (1st Gulati Dec. ¶ 50-61, 71-72, 75-76.) It is also undisputed that when the WNT’s union demanded equal bonuses for World Cup play during 2016 contract negotiations, U.S. Soccer declined, not because the WNT is comprised of women, but because paying such bonuses without receipt of concomitant prize money would “break” U.S. Soccer financially. ...]

Page 23

Spoiler

[... Further, when it comes to friendlies, U.S. Soccer actually has paid Plaintiffs more for friendlies than it has paid the MNT players [...] MNT friendlies have generated, on average, an additional $200,000 per game more than WNT friendlies ...]

Page 23-24 (So the women get paid more for friendlies despite generating less. I see a good chance this entire thing could be backfiring on them.)

Spoiler

[... Under the current WNT CBA, U.S. Soccer has paid the WNT players and their union almost 2.5 times as much as the MNT players and their union. (2nd Irwin Dec. Ex. 1 at 11.) Using Plaintiffs’ own methodology, multiple WNT players have been paid more under the current WNT CBA than they would have been paid under the MNT collective bargaining agreement. Again, using Plaintiffs’ own methodology, MNT players would have been paid more under the WNT CBA than under their own. WNT players are paid more for playing in the Olympics than MNT players are paid for participating in any tournament other than the World Cup. U.S. Soccer has rejected overtures by the MNT’s union to pay male players for the Olympics at all. The WNT has been paid more as a percentage of revenue generated by the team than the MNT. ...]

Page 27

Spoiler

[... U.S. Soccer also pays WNT players two different annual salaries, plus benefits, for playing in the NWSL because supporting the league in this way is a benefit to the players themselves. ...]

Page 28

Spoiler

[... FIFA determines the prize money for the Women’s World Cup, and it is FIFA and Concacaf (and, on occasion, CONMEBOL) who sponsor the tournaments that carry substantial prize money for MNT players, not U.S. Soccer. ...]

Page 29


Is there a term for race-baiting when it's about the sexes? Because that's what Buzzfeed is doing with it's headline (who would've thought?). Creating drama for clicks and pulling the statement out of context. If the defending attorney is correct in his assessment, if anything - I see a reasonable chance this backfiring considering his claims that the WNT is earning more under their contracts than the MNT.

Thanks for posting this. It’s important to get the information at source.

Sadly so many get their news from clickbait headlines which are designed to get a response. If you can shape a story around race, sex, gender, nationality, etc... it's bound to get people riled up.

 

[limerickcitykid]

So, like I said all along the courts have sided with US Soccer.

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“The history of negotiations between the parties demonstrates that the WNT rejected an offer to be paid under the same pay-to-play structure as the MNT, and the WNT was willing to forgo higher bonuses for benefits, such as greater base compensation and the guarantee of a higher number of contracted players.”

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[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I personally don't think they should be equal, I think it's unfair to the men. They don't play as much as the men and I'm going to take an educated guess that they garner less viewing figures than the men too.

Tennis is different.

Same tournaments in the same stadia on the same days.

The men’s game is the draw. But if Federer vs Djokovic finishes on Court 1 at Wimbledon, people will stay and watch the women’s match that follows.

It’s a loose comparison that can be pulled apart a little more than that, but Tennis is understandable.

 

[El Zoido]

So, like I said all along the courts have sided with US Soccer.

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“The history of negotiations between the parties demonstrates that the WNT rejected an offer to be paid under the same pay-to-play structure as the MNT, and the WNT was willing to forgo higher bonuses for benefits, such as greater base compensation and the guarantee of a higher number of contracted players.”

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I really don’t see that they have a case to be honest.

 

[arnie_ni]

Tennis is different.

Same tournaments in the same stadia on the same days.

The men’s game is the draw. But if Federer vs Djokovic finishes on Court 1 at Wimbledon, people will stay and watch the women’s match that follows.

It’s a loose comparison that can be pulled apart a little more than that, but Tennis is understandable.

Even when one is best of 5 vs best of 3.

Id be embarrassed in my job if i done 3/5 of the work as a colleague and earned the same pay.

 

[ivaldo]

I've not really followed this closely, but did the women actually earn more than the men per game, and yet are asking for equal pay?

 

[duffer]

Id be embarrassed in my job if i done 3/5 of the work as a colleague and earned the same pay.

I'd be delighted.

 

[arnie_ni]

I've not really followed this closely, but did the women actually earn more than the men per game, and yet are asking for equal pay?

Seems that was the case, but i also havent followed it

 

[ivaldo]

Seems that was the case, but i also havent followed it

Seems like they both negotiated different structures. The men's being more performance related, while the women opted for a guaranteed salary. That's going to make it pretty difficult for any judge to see clear discrimination, whether it's there or not.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I've not really followed this closely, but did the women actually earn more than the men per game, and yet are asking for equal pay?

Essentially, they actually earned more and than claimed sexism to earn even more under the guise of “equal pay.” An equal pay according to them which isn’t allowed to count half their income. They were offered the exact same deal and declined it in favour of having lower bonuses but with a guaranteed salary, plus medical and other benefits. They then turned around and have tried to sue because their bonuses are lower but claim your not allowed to include the base salary they get or any of the benefits.

They’ve also tried to sue for backdated $60m relating to FIFA World Cup prize money which has absolutely nothing to do with US Soccer in the first place

The whole thing has been a media sham from the get go to try win the public vote and disgrace US Soccer into paying them even more. That’s why they never produced any actual numbers or facts and relied on their public and media back to create a story that they were being screwed over. Thankfully their bullshit was called and their “case” was immediately thrown out because they don’t have an actual case.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Even when one is best of 5 vs best of 3.

Id be embarrassed in my job if i done 3/5 of the work as a colleague and earned the same pay.

Your comment doesn’t speak to mine.

With respect to your comment: They both do the same job. One just takes less time. Not less work.

 

[POF]

I've not really followed this closely, but did the women actually earn more than the men per game, and yet are asking for equal pay?

I'm struggling to understand this too. If they'd won, would they have had to return some of their pay?

I find this sort of thing incredibly strange. At an elite level, there is no such thing as a set pay rate for a certain job. It's not like someone stacking shelves at Woolies on an hourly rate. When you negotiate and agree to a pay deal, you can't ask for more just because someone else negotiates more. You get what you're worth.

It's the same deal with leading female Hollywood actors. If you feel you're worth more, then hold the line and don't accept less. If you have to accept less because they can get someone else to do the job just as well for cheaper then maybe you're not worth what you think you are.

 

[arnie_ni]

Your comment doesn’t speak to mine.

With respect to your comment: They both do the same job. One just takes less time. Not less work.

Theres less work in 3 sets than 5. Ones more physically demanding for a start thus shouldnt be paid the same in this sense.

 

[passing-wind]

Gender equality is always difficult especially in what's considered a male orientated role in football, not just on field but also within hierarchy additionally. I think that women should deserve pay on the propensity of the economical influences pertaining to the success of women's football.

For example Ronaldo / Messi don't necessarily earn as much as they do solely on the basis of their talent, it's also the amount of money being thrown into the sport (sponsorship, TV rights, marketing, viewership etc) which funnels the amount of capabilities in allowances. That's why Pele despite being an Icon wouldn't necessarily have been paid as much in his prime compared to that of even Lingard in present day.

So to this detriment, the women should seek to influence the commercial infrastructure of the sport more so than the employers as that's what drives the change in the sustainability of pay.

 

[Man of Leisure]

Essentially, they actually earned more and than claimed sexism to earn even more under the guise of “equal pay.” An equal pay according to them which isn’t allowed to count half their income. They were offered the exact same deal and declined it in favour of having lower bonuses but with a guaranteed salary, plus medical and other benefits. They then turned around and have tried to sue because their bonuses are lower but claim your not allowed to include the base salary they get or any of the benefits.

They’ve also tried to sue for backdated $60m relating to FIFA World Cup prize money which has absolutely nothing to do with US Soccer in the first place

The whole thing has been a media sham from the get go to try win the public vote and disgrace US Soccer into paying them even more. That’s why they never produced any actual numbers or facts and relied on their public and media back to create a story that they were being screwed over. Thankfully their bullshit was called and their “case” was immediately thrown out because they don’t have an actual case.

Haven’t been following this too closely other than seeing the headlines, but if what you’re describing is true, then yah sounds like a case of having their cake and eating it too.

 

[POF]

So to this detriment, the women should seek to influence the commercial infrastructure of the sport more so than the employers as that's what drives the change in the sustainability of pay.

They could. Or, because they know it's not going to happen in their lifetime, they can use a politically sensitive subject to try to capitalise off the behemoth that is the men's game for their own financial benefit under the guise of gender equality.