I want to thank this thread for bringing the word Raumdeuter to the Caf, hope to see it a lot more around these parts, it translates as Space Investigator, just magnificent!
Van De Beek is not a Centre Midfielder
- Thread starter Bebestation
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Is 'Raumdeuter' the same playing position as trequartista then?
Or are there nuances that I've missed?
Or are there nuances that I've missed?
I hope he's not a CM because “he was signed to replace Pogba” is probably the least defensible of the defences used for why Ole wasted 40m on him
whaha this thread. VDB has only ever played as a CM due to the Ajax and Dutch national team not having an attacking midfielder. Atleast not in the way United has, the "attacking midfielder" in those systems is more of an attacking minded nr 8.
Look at this guy who doesn't know the difference between a raumdeuter and trequartista. Do you even football?
Forget about him not being a midfield player. He is not even a football player now because he never plays. It's better to call him a Judge as he is always on the bench.
*shrugs*You know, life was much easier when everyone played a 4-4-2 and I could go 'Aha! He plays as a midfielder!'
You know, life was much easier when everyone played a 4-4-2 and I could go 'Aha! He plays as a midfielder!'
I'm with youSpace Interpreter
Basically 1 view per day. Must be the uploader
@Bebestation
It is going to be ok. There is life after Ole. Maybe Pochettino can show you what a top manager looks like. DvDB can play deeper in midfielder. It just Ole style doesn't fit his approach. Ole demands for workhorses in the midfield, but under better manager, dvdb can thrive playing deeper
It is going to be ok. There is life after Ole. Maybe Pochettino can show you what a top manager looks like. DvDB can play deeper in midfielder. It just Ole style doesn't fit his approach. Ole demands for workhorses in the midfield, but under better manager, dvdb can thrive playing deeper
Lingard is a better player than VDB in the AM/Raumdeuter role, he is a lot more athletic and is more likely to get you a goal. VDB's only chance to play is in CM.
His best performances for us have been in central midfield. Whether he 'could' be better in a more attacking role or not, he certainly hasn't been so far.
Of course, he hasn't actually had many good performances, and they haven't been 'that' good. So it is a small sample size.
Of course, he hasn't actually had many good performances, and they haven't been 'that' good. So it is a small sample size.
I purposely put no names in the rest of the positions. I am highlighting where i would play him, who the two should be is a separate debate. I personally do not believe that Pogba bruno and Ronaldo should be in the same time under Ole, he just wants any of them to produce a moment to win a game. We need team players and workaholics. Also there is 38 games a season, even if Donny started 15 there, bruno and pogba would get rest. Pogba will most certainly leave next year too. I wouldn't take everything in life at face value.If we changed to that formation, it would be Pogba and Bruno in those 2 positions.
Donny would be.....on the bench
If he ever makes it at the top level it will be as a CM.
Fred isn’t a left back and Jonah isn’t a DM but that doesn’t stop the football Einstein’s on the Caf!
I suspect Donny would go in goal if it meant he could get on the pitch at this point.
I suspect Donny would go in goal if it meant he could get on the pitch at this point.
The forum page is looking really shite at the moment and this thread takes the biscuit.
It's a word invented by himself to describe Thomas Müller's movement on the pitch, whose most important quality is that he always seems to know where spaces will be open for him to play him. So he has a free role in a typical playmaker/trequartista position to drift wherever he thinks is useful for the team and doing that, he uses and creates spaces for himself and his teammates. So in a way Müller/a "Raumdeuter (=space interpreter) is a playmaker without the ball, opposed to your typical playmaker who needs the ball to create something.
I really don't see how this fits van de Beek as a type of player, as he needs the ball to create stuff as far as I can see.
There you go. Close thread.
Indeed. This idea that he is some sort of shadow striker is beyond ridiculous. And that video is one of the worst bits of “analysis” I’ve ever seen.
Nice thread OP, I think it’s always a good sign when people get as engaged as they have done in this discussion, Although I do share the view of the majority in here that he is indeed a Central midfielder, and I would go as far to say that he has the potential to be the perfect modern CM if he can Improve his defensive work. He’s arguably the most press resistant player in our team, always looking to play it safe but capable of playing passes around the corner and moving effectively into space.
we cannot judge a player until they have had at least 5 games as a starter in the same position, something that - remarkably - has not happened with VDB.
if he moves on, whoever he joins improves their squad instantly with him in it. He has the mind of a CM and the ability to play 6/8/10. Hopefully, he realizes his best shot of nailing down a spot with us is as a #6 and he puts the work in to be even more well rounded.
we cannot judge a player until they have had at least 5 games as a starter in the same position, something that - remarkably - has not happened with VDB.
if he moves on, whoever he joins improves their squad instantly with him in it. He has the mind of a CM and the ability to play 6/8/10. Hopefully, he realizes his best shot of nailing down a spot with us is as a #6 and he puts the work in to be even more well rounded.
Okay lets say for arguments sake that you are right, then..
1) Why the hell did we sign him in the first place
2) Why the hell didn't we sell him last summer and use the funds for an actual CM that we need
1) Why the hell did we sign him in the first place
2) Why the hell didn't we sell him last summer and use the funds for an actual CM that we need
You are so full of yourself damn. The person in question says himself he can play CM and that’s one of his best positions but yet you are saying it’s not. He might not be a great CM doesn’t mean he isn’t a CM.
Batsuayi is not a good striker doesn’t mean he’s not a striker is it?
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I'm not agreeing with OP but this stating that what a player says as factual is also not something to base much of an argument on.
If Pogba told you he could be a world class DM, McT says he could be a libero or Fred told you he could be a #10 (esp after that assist for Neymar for Brasil) would you believe them?
I think for the same reason we got Ronaldo - when a good player becomes available we sign first and then think later about whether we need them or not.
IMO DVb should have gotten way more time and Brno should have been rested far more than he has...but Ole likes his favourites (see Maguire)
So the blame is not on him, we are failing because Ole didn’t get a new midfielder to our already star studded team. I am sure that if and when he gets his new midfielder, the blame will shift to not having a good RB and then to another DM, then to CB. But in actual, the problem is not the players or the team, it’s him. He is the problem. Most of the top managers will love to manage this team.
Ask him to have a good look at the midfield players he has at his disposal. All the top teams will happily take them to their team.
Ask him to have a good look at the midfield players he has at his disposal. All the top teams will happily take them to their team.
Very good questions, I wasnt excited about us signing him at the time. Couldnt get the hype fans were making about us signing him. For me I thought he woul dbe a squad player, he is barely that. This is the summer we wre massivley linked with Grealish for £70m which was too much but people were excited about £40m on VDB....madness
As for the second question, "needs a chance, first season" I think would be peoples answer.....yet when we have been dreadful in midfield almost every game so far, he still cant get a game. He should have been sold in the summer, so should have Pogba, Lingard and a few others and the momney invested in a new midfield pairing....that was our biggest mistake ths summer for me, but even I didnt think we would struggle as much as we have done so far
You talk about level headed analysis then you mention how we've lost every game VdB started, we've lost lots of games with McTominay or Fred starting, what does this "higher winning percentage" even mean? They have served some appalling games on consistent basis, and demonstrated that they are not good enough. The other guy VdB, we only know one thing for sure, he has got very very little game time to even fight for a place.
And that second paragraph, even when both of them play we are often appalling in our defensive shape and bypassed with ease.
I think for United his only hope is as an 8. I don't see anywhere near enough quality or athleticism to be a 10. In current football you have to be pretty special for a team to build around you in that position because you're the main creative outlet and are expected to provide and score plenty. He's not dynamic enough in his play to be in any forward role either.
However, his poor performances don't bode well for any position quite frankly. But I would say his only chance is probably as part of a 3 man midfield where he hasn't got much defensive responsibility, he's mainly there to tick over. Pretty much a Herrera role, the extra man without doing anything great. Less combative but maybe better one touch play.
That's all I can see from him based on his qualities so far, there are far too many optimistic readings from people who have just filled in the blanks in their own mind. A player that's got better by not playing despite doing little when he has.
However, his poor performances don't bode well for any position quite frankly. But I would say his only chance is probably as part of a 3 man midfield where he hasn't got much defensive responsibility, he's mainly there to tick over. Pretty much a Herrera role, the extra man without doing anything great. Less combative but maybe better one touch play.
That's all I can see from him based on his qualities so far, there are far too many optimistic readings from people who have just filled in the blanks in their own mind. A player that's got better by not playing despite doing little when he has.
I’m still trying to figure out what a double pivot is.
You know, life was much easier when everyone played a 4-4-2 and I could go 'Aha! He plays as a midfielder!'