Van Dijk revisited

Adz_99 said:
I've never been particularly impressed by him. I look at Gabriel and Saliba at Arsenal with a bit of envy. I've never felt that way about this tosser.

Obviously a good defender but he's a level below the elite CBs in PL history.
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He’s fortunate that there are so few good CBs in the PL and over the past 7/8 years.

He doesn’t stack up to Rio, Terry, Campbell, Vidic, Stam. Stam aside, they were all playing at the same time.

He’s an excellent player, but nowhere near one of the best. It’s a typical Liverpool narrative to overhype their own players - hey all clubs do it, but given the lack of competition it seems to have stuck.
 
Davie Moyes said:
Yes, absolutely loathe this about him. He's been like this for years at Pool. I can't remember if he was like this before at previous clubs or whether the arrogance has come with this 'best defender in the history of football ever' narrative.
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I wouldn't be surprised if he blamed Kirkez for the goal we conceded.
 
Robbie Boy said:
He's an arrogant wanker.

Will be 35 going into next season, given he looks pretty much passed it, he's going to be a massive problem for them.
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Bumper contracts for him and Salah just as they look like they're over the hill, almost £250 million dropped on Wirtz and Isak who don't seem to have improved them at all (arguably made them worse), more again on Frimpong and Kerkez who seem wholly unsuited to what's being asked of them and £80 million on Ekitike to be a back-up striker.

It's exactly the sort of business you'd have expected us to have done in recent years.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
He’s fortunate that there are so few good CBs in the PL and over the past 7/8 years.

He doesn’t stack up to Rio, Terry, Campbell, Vidic, Stam. Stam aside, they were all playing at the same time.

He’s an excellent player, but nowhere near one of the best. It’s a typical Liverpool narrative to overhype their own players - hey all clubs do it, but given the lack of competition it seems to have stuck.
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Doesnt have to face prime Henry, RvN, Drogba, Rooney, Ronaldo, Torres, RvP, and Aguero either.
 
peller said:
Doesnt have to face prime Henry, RvN, Drogba, Rooney, Ronaldo, Torres, RvP, and Aguero either.
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Didn't you seen he kept a clean sheet playing for Southampton in 2016 against prime Rooney?
 
Fenômeno said:
Very good defender but vastly overrated by a lot especially when considering on an all time level.
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Exactly this. He only appears to be great in the current setting because of the sheer lack of top strikers he has to play against every week. Most teams play with one up top with wide forwards or inverted strikers/wingers etc (Arsenal seemed to play for 3 seasons without any striker ffs) so its not like hes dealing with Rooney,Ronaldo,Torres,Drogba,Aguero etc. in their prime.

Hell you look at the strikers in 2006-2008ish even Portsmouth had the likes of Defoe to defend against compared to now.

Makes me laugh when younger/newer/deluded fans rate him higher than Vidic/Rio/Terry and so on.
 
arnie_ni said:
Didn't you seen he kept a clean sheet playing for Southampton in 2016 against prime Rooney?
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Would that not have been during the "Wayne Rooney is a midfielder now, actually" era?
 
Hes on the wane but hes easily one of the best CBs in the PL period. I think some of you chaps are misremembering the quality of Rio, Vidic etc. They were exceptional in general but the way some of you talk about them makes them sound like an attacker never got a sniff with them in defence.

Hes definitely in the same ballpark as those guys. Potentially better.
 
mctrials23 said:
Hes on the wane but hes easily one of the best CBs in the PL period. I think some of you chaps are misremembering the quality of Rio, Vidic etc. They were exceptional in general but the way some of you talk about them makes them sound like an attacker never got a sniff with them in defence.

Hes definitely in the same ballpark as those guys. Potentially better.
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No chance. Those guys actually embraced defending when required and weren't bothered if it meant they were occasionally dribbled past. Van Dijk cowers away when an attacker is sprinting at him.
 
Hilarious when he blamed Kerkez for getting the ball booted at his face (by van Dijk himself) :lol:
 
mctrials23 said:
Hes on the wane but hes easily one of the best CBs in the PL period. I think some of you chaps are misremembering the quality of Rio, Vidic etc. They were exceptional in general but the way some of you talk about them makes them sound like an attacker never got a sniff with them in defence.

Hes definitely in the same ballpark as those guys. Potentially better.
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Delusional
 
mctrials23 said:
Hes on the wane but hes easily one of the best CBs in the PL period. I think some of you chaps are misremembering the quality of Rio, Vidic etc. They were exceptional in general but the way some of you talk about them makes them sound like an attacker never got a sniff with them in defence.

Hes definitely in the same ballpark as those guys. Potentially better.
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HAHAHA This made my morning, thanks.
 
I swear the Liverpool players fear him. He is constantly complaining, directing them where to pass the ball, blaming them for slight mistakes and even blaming them for his own mistakes, always throwing up his arms in frustration towards his teammates etc. Yesterday he hit the ball to Kerkez face and literally blamed him gesturing that he had to speak, like what? how can his teammates stand him? Annoying overrated player with an ego, such a narcissist.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
He’s fortunate that there are so few good CBs in the PL and over the past 7/8 years.

He doesn’t stack up to Rio, Terry, Campbell, Vidic, Stam. Stam aside, they were all playing at the same time.

He’s an excellent player, but nowhere near one of the best. It’s a typical Liverpool narrative to overhype their own players - hey all clubs do it, but given the lack of competition it seems to have stuck.
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Exactly, not just in the EPL but in Europe in general. Rudiger, Militao, Upamecano are nowhere near good enough compared to the likes of Ramos, Pepe, Puyol, Pique, Cannavaro etc. And that was Vidic's and Ferdinand's main competition (in their prime). You can even add Nesta and Maldini as well. Plus Terry, Carvalho, Campbell, Hyppia etc.

Rio and Vida had incredible competition both in Europe and the EPL whereas VVD's competition in 2020s has been incredibly poor and lackluster. Vida, Rio and Staam are all better players than VVD. I wonder if VVD is even better than the likes of Hyppia who is kind of underrated.
 
90THMIN... said:
I swear the Liverpool players fear him. He is constantly complaining, directing them where to pass the ball, blaming them for slight mistakes and even blaming them for his own mistakes, always throwing up his arms in frustration towards his teammates etc. Yesterday he hit the ball to Kerkez face and literally blamed him gesturing that he had to speak, like what? how can his teammates stand him? Annoying overrated player with an ego, such a narcissist.
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Sounds like our Bruno
 
90THMIN... said:
I swear the Liverpool players fear him. He is constantly complaining, directing them where to pass the ball, blaming them for slight mistakes and even blaming them for his own mistakes, always throwing up his arms in frustration towards his teammates etc. Yesterday he hit the ball to Kerkez face and literally blamed him gesturing that he had to speak, like what? how can his teammates stand him? Annoying overrated player with an ego, such a narcissist.
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I could be wrong but I seem to remember him heavily criticizing De Ligt the last time he played for Netherlands and now De Ligt isn’t even being called up at all. He’s extremely arrogant which probably worked out okay when he was at his peak but he may want to take it easier now that he seems to be in a pretty big decline…
 
I just think it's disgusting that Macallister hasn't yet posted a public apology for headbutting his elbow. Poor Virg even had to turn around and point whilst slowly strolling back, that's grunt work ffs
 
LordSpud said:
Sounds like our Bruno
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And Bruno gets crucified by it by our own fans and the media literally every game yet Van Dijk gets a free pass. You just proved that by commenting "oh look, sounds like our Bruno"... I bet you couldn't wait to comment.
 
We're Manchester United.
Our players get judged differently to other clubs players. This isn't new. It has been this biased way my whole 42 years following this club. So what media slag say Bruno for the ignore or praise it in VVD he is a donkey right now. Glad he signed that bumper new contract.
 
He had a couple of world class seasons before his serious knee injury but hasn't been consistently world class since, I don't think.
 
He looked really poor yesterday, although i did think some of that was due to how useless Kerkez as and he was covering for him down the left.

If i was a scouser, i'd be concerned about the longer term, it looks like Konate might be off at the end of the season and Virgil will be 35 by then too, even with Guehi there's massive gaps to plug.
 
90THMIN... said:
And Bruno gets crucified by it by our own fans and the media literally every game yet Van Dijk gets a free pass. You just proved that by commenting "oh look, sounds like our Bruno"... I bet you couldn't wait to comment.
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With Bruno it's more he's an annoying, moaning, whiny guy which you get one on most teams. Despite the media and fans on his back he still does it as he can't change.

With VVD it's come across as arrogance, which continues in to his interviews etc. At least with Bruno off the pitch and in interviews he comes across as quite humble.
 
Davie Moyes said:
With Bruno it's more he's an annoying, moaning, whiny guy which you get one on most teams. Despite the media and fans on his back he still does it as he can't change.

With VVD it's come across as arrogance, which continues in to his interviews etc. At least with Bruno off the pitch and in interviews he comes across as quite humble.
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Very true. I remember Van Dijk's quotes after a mistake at the Emirates a year or two ago where he said "I haven't made many mistakes in my career but this was one of them". Insecurity at it's cringeworthing worst. He fits that club perfectly.
 
M Bison said:
He looked really poor yesterday, although i did think some of that was due to how useless Kerkez as and he was covering for him down the left.

If i was a scouser, i'd be concerned about the longer term, it looks like Konate might be off at the end of the season and Virgil will be 35 by then too, even with Guehi there's massive gaps to plug.
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Yup, they're going to need to make massive investments in defense next summer. I think two CBs (assuming Konate leaves), a starting quality RB, and maybe a new LB to rotate with and push Kerkez.

Guehi will be an interesting one to watch. Liverpool had basically a free run this summer but next summer they will have competition. There have been rumors of interest from all of Barcelona, Real, Bayern, and City. Some of that is probably bullshit but it won't be a free run and some of those clubs might be willing to offer wages Liverpool isn't comfortable with. It also creates a lot of incentive for Guehi not to move in the winter window but instead wait for the biggest pay packet/signing on fee.
 
Powderfinger said:
Yup, they're going to need to make massive investments in defense next summer. I think two CBs (assuming Konate leaves), a starting quality RB, and maybe a new LB to rotate with and push Kerkez.

Guehi will be an interesting one to watch. Liverpool had basically a free run this summer but next summer they will have competition. There have been rumors of interest from all of Barcelona, Real, Bayern, and City. Some of that is probably bullshit but it won't be a free run and some of those clubs might be willing to offer wages Liverpool isn't comfortable with. It also creates a lot of incentive for Guehi not to move in the winter window but instead wait for the biggest pay packet/signing on fee.
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Guehi can also sign a pre-contract from Jan with a continental club which gives them a significant advantage
 
Powderfinger said:
Yup, they're going to need to make massive investments in defense next summer. I think two CBs (assuming Konate leaves), a starting quality RB, and maybe a new LB to rotate with and push Kerkez.

Guehi will be an interesting one to watch. Liverpool had basically a free run this summer but next summer they will have competition. There have been rumors of interest from all of Barcelona, Real, Bayern, and City. Some of that is probably bullshit but it won't be a free run and some of those clubs might be willing to offer wages Liverpool isn't comfortable with. It also creates a lot of incentive for Guehi not to move in the winter window but instead wait for the biggest pay packet/signing on fee.
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They need two CBs anyway. Konate leaving will just mean that they both need to be starting quality.

Gomez is done and the only other centre-back they've got is that teenager from Parma that did his ACL in the league cup.
 
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RobinLFC said:
It would make a gigantic difference. Like in the category of "you can't understate his importance" given how our other defenders have been playing. He's the one keeping it all together as best as possible.
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It really wouldn't, because defensively you've been a shambles in nearly every game, and now you are losing all your games as a direct result. If you take him out of the team you just have a terrible defence without him in it, instead of a terrible defence with him in it.

It's not all his fault obviously, but he is part of a defence that is currently very bad at defending, yet according to you and others in here (until yesterday at least) has been playing well.

If Salah was playing well he wouldn't be part of a very bad attack, because Salah playing well carries the attack to being a pretty good one on his own.
 
I didn't realize it at the time but he actually makes 3 mistakes for our first goal.

First he takes out his own player, then he gets beaten by Bruno for the pass he plays to Amad and third he stops sprinting and lets Mbeumo get to the ball first.
 
90THMIN... said:
And Bruno gets crucified by it by our own fans and the media literally every game yet Van Dijk gets a free pass. You just proved that by commenting "oh look, sounds like our Bruno"... I bet you couldn't wait to comment.
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Van Dijk has captained Liverpool to a Premier League and his signing elevated us to a side expected to compete at the top end.

Fernandes has captained United at a time when they’ve been miles off being competitive at the top end. Even yesterday he was poor in the second half and giving the ball away consistently. He can make a pass and score a few goals, but he was an awful choice as a captain imo.

When Van Dijk is gone we’ll feel it. His signing was transformative for us and even now he’s one of the best Cb’s in the league.
 
Klopper76 said:
Van Dijk has captained Liverpool to a Premier League and his signing elevated us to a side expected to compete at the top end.

Fernandes has captained United at a time when they’ve been miles off being competitive at the top end. Even yesterday he was poor in the second half and giving the ball away consistently. He can make a pass and score a few goals, but he was an awful choice as a captain imo.

When Van Dijk is gone we’ll feel it. His signing was transformative for us and even now he’s one of the best Cb’s in the league.
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I think that’s a massive disservice to Bruno. He makes mistakes, and now he’s being asked to do things he’s not really suited to and suffers as a result of it. But make no mistake, he’s consistently been among the 5 best PL players season in and season out for us. Even yesterday he was a difference maker, with an inspired cross for Maguire.

United being miles off is absolutely accurate, but placing that at Bruno’s door is disingenuous
 
Klopper76 said:
Van Dijk has captained Liverpool to a Premier League and his signing elevated us to a side expected to compete at the top end.

Fernandes has captained United at a time when they’ve been miles off being competitive at the top end. Even yesterday he was poor in the second half and giving the ball away consistently. He can make a pass and score a few goals, but he was an awful choice as a captain imo.

When Van Dijk is gone we’ll feel it. His signing was transformative for us and even now he’s one of the best Cb’s in the league.
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There has been better players over the years who have captained their team to more glory than Van Dijk has and will ever do for Liverpool, and they don't have that much ego as Van Dijk. How has what he has won has to do with my original point of him having an ego and always complaining and acting frustrated towards his team mates?
 
Fortitude said:
He's incredibly arrogant. Thought he gave off a lot of distastefulness out there toward his teammates. Like a more than mild disdain.
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That stood out for me too. Surprised to see that. Almost like he is outraged he has to do some defending work
 
Klopper76 said:
Van Dijk has captained Liverpool to a Premier League and his signing elevated us to a side expected to compete at the top end.

Fernandes has captained United at a time when they’ve been miles off being competitive at the top end. Even yesterday he was poor in the second half and giving the ball away consistently. He can make a pass and score a few goals, but he was an awful choice as a captain imo.

When Van Dijk is gone we’ll feel it. His signing was transformative for us and even now he’s one of the best Cb’s in the league.
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I dont think you understand the job of a captain.

A lot of the time captains are given their roles because of everything - professionalism and setting standards off the pitch, in training, their availability, their approach to games and their ability to unite the team.

You're overlooking so much with Bruno and allowing so much for Van Dijk because of weird reasons like giving the ball away. Bruno was a difference maker yesterday for us, such a odd game to elude to when making a point.

Van Dijk is off the boil, he's had the benefit of playing under Klopp for quite a few seasons but his post match interviews and general viewpoints are eyebrow raising.
 
Rainy nights in Stoke said:
I think that’s a massive disservice to Bruno. He makes mistakes, and now he’s being asked to do things he’s not really suited to and suffers as a result of it. But make no mistake, he’s consistently been among the 5 best PL players season in and season out for us. Even yesterday he was a difference maker, with an inspired cross for Maguire.

United being miles off is absolutely accurate, but placing that at Bruno’s door is disingenuous
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No offence, but it's not exactly hard to be one of United's best players currently. His output is good but he's an incredibly frustrating player at times. Very wasteful, shoots at times when he has a better option etc. As a captain I don't see it with him. He's as guilty if not more so of moaning at his team mates whilst not exactly leading by example.
90THMIN... said:
There has been better players over the years who have captained their team to more glory than Van Dijk has and will ever do for Liverpool, and they don't have that much ego as Van Dijk. How has what he has won has to do with my original point of him having an ego and always complaining and acting frustrated towards his team mates?
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I don't think Van Dijk does always do that. He has a bit this season because at times he's been our only decent defender. Sunday he was naff but an example of his frustration was when he went to clear the ball and it hit Kerkez. Kerkez made no attempt to make it known to Van Dijk that he was there, and so as captain Van Dijk told him off. It's not an unreasonable thing for a captain to do.

If he'd had a pop at Konate for not getting to Mbuemo for the first goal then I'd have a different opinion of that, because Mbuemo was Van Dijk's man.
VP89 said:
I dont think you understand the job of a captain.

A lot of the time captains are given their roles because of everything - professionalism and setting standards off the pitch, in training, their availability, their approach to games and their ability to unite the team.

You're overlooking so much with Bruno and allowing so much for Van Dijk because of weird reasons like giving the ball away. Bruno was a difference maker yesterday for us, such a odd game to elude to when making a point.

Van Dijk is off the boil, he's had the benefit of playing under Klopp for quite a few seasons but his post match interviews and general viewpoints are eyebrow raising.
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Can't the same be said about Van Dijk, what he does in training, availability, approach to games etc. Van Dijk has kept our back line together on his own at times this season. Sunday is a bad example because he wasn't great, but against Newcastle when we were up against it, he won everything in the air and was the only one keeping Newcastle at bay.

II don't rate Fernades as a captain. I just don't. You're entitled to think differently. You watch him more than I do. I know he got the assist for the winner on Sunday, but I didn't think his second half performance was great.
 
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