VAR and Refereeing 2025/26 | General Discussion

From former referee Graham Scott via The Athletic:

The last thing that video assistant referee Paul Howard would have wanted was a hair-pulling incident. After several similar situations in the Premier League this season, the refereeing body Professional Game Match Officials (PGMO) has been clinging onto its position that all such acts must be sanctioned with a red card, in the interests of consistency. But this one? Really?

The FA Commission that adjudicated on Manchester United’s appeal against Lisandro Martinez’s sending off for briefly tugging Dominic Calvert-Lewin’s in an aerial duel supported the decision to send him off.

Calvert-Lewin’s contact on Marc Cucurella was even more fleeting and surely fell short of the level of contact required for a red card. But Manchester United will undoubtedly see enough similarities to ask questions of PGMO, and they have my sympathy.
 
Frosty said:
From former referee Graham Scott via The Athletic:

The last thing that video assistant referee Paul Howard would have wanted was a hair-pulling incident. After several similar situations in the Premier League this season, the refereeing body Professional Game Match Officials (PGMO) has been clinging onto its position that all such acts must be sanctioned with a red card, in the interests of consistency. But this one? Really?

The FA Commission that adjudicated on Manchester United’s appeal against Lisandro Martinez’s sending off for briefly tugging Dominic Calvert-Lewin’s in an aerial duel supported the decision to send him off.

Calvert-Lewin’s contact on Marc Cucurella was even more fleeting and surely fell short of the level of contact required for a red card. But Manchester United will undoubtedly see enough similarities to ask questions of PGMO, and they have my sympathy.
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Contact even more fleeting? He actually pulled at his hair.
 
Even more fleeting? What? He's got more hair so it's harder to see in amongst that birds nest, but he definitely tugs it with the same if not more force than Martinez did!
 
Impartial European match officials send off DCL for that incident today.

The problem is is that the current body of refs are officiating the game based on context, specifically the importance of the game and match situation. There are close calls where they are happy to crack down on sides like United and Spurs because they know there will be no backlash for them, but when the same incident happens for a favoured side, they become ultra cautious.

We need objective decision making now. These guys are too emotionally invested in what they are doing and they are not transparent enough. Arsenal won a close game yesterday with a player on the pitch who should have been banned.
 
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LDUred said:
Impartial European match officials send off DCL for that incident today.

The problem is is that the current body of refs are officiating the game based on context, specifically the importance of the game. There are close calls that they are happy to crack down on sides like United and Spurs because they know there will be no backlash for them.

We need objective decision making. These guys are too emotionally invested in what they are doing.
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The thing is they change their approach from week to week. Sometimes like you say, they don't really want to 'ruin a game with a red card' and yet Manchester united seem to only get reffed by 'the letter of the law'. So you end up with a spectrum of decisions that in a vacuum, you could make the case for each being right, but when held up for comparison makes a mockery of the whole thing.

I think the state of var is beyond repair. Var gives football too much scrutiny that it wasn't designed for, and therefore all these subjective decisions get the chance to come into the game where they weren't before. I think they just need to abandon var and let the game go back to what it was. At least then you've got one humans error as a leveller - if he misses the Martinez one then he misses the Cucurella one as well.
 
They're somehow outdoing themselves for the incompetence every weekend now. It would be better if they actually came out and admitted mistakes instead of basically doing that Naked Gun nothing to see here gif.
 
Said it loads of times but why the feck has retrospective action completely vanished? It’s not officially been stopped as far as I know.
 
Frosty said:
From former referee Graham Scott via The Athletic:

The last thing that video assistant referee Paul Howard would have wanted was a hair-pulling incident. After several similar situations in the Premier League this season, the refereeing body Professional Game Match Officials (PGMO) has been clinging onto its position that all such acts must be sanctioned with a red card, in the interests of consistency. But this one? Really?

The FA Commission that adjudicated on Manchester United’s appeal against Lisandro Martinez’s sending off for briefly tugging Dominic Calvert-Lewin’s in an aerial duel supported the decision to send him off.

Calvert-Lewin’s contact on Marc Cucurella was even more fleeting and surely fell short of the level of contact required for a red card. But Manchester United will undoubtedly see enough similarities to ask questions of PGMO, and they have my sympathy.
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Graham Scott is a cnut
 
Frosty said:
From former referee Graham Scott via The Athletic:

The last thing that video assistant referee Paul Howard would have wanted was a hair-pulling incident. After several similar situations in the Premier League this season, the refereeing body Professional Game Match Officials (PGMO) has been clinging onto its position that all such acts must be sanctioned with a red card, in the interests of consistency. But this one? Really?

The FA Commission that adjudicated on Manchester United’s appeal against Lisandro Martinez’s sending off for briefly tugging Dominic Calvert-Lewin’s in an aerial duel supported the decision to send him off.

Calvert-Lewin’s contact on Marc Cucurella was even more fleeting and surely fell short of the level of contact required for a red card. But Manchester United will undoubtedly see enough similarities to ask questions of PGMO, and they have my sympathy.
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Well that’s just straight up crap
 
I thought any kind of hair pull is a red card. Hmmm?

So it has to be forceful? And Martinez brushing DCL's hair was deemed a violent act?
 
Orange Tree said:
I thought any kind of hair pull is a red card. Hmmm?

So it has to be forceful? And Martinez brushing DCL's hair was deemed a violent act?
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It was the same as « any contact on an opponent’s throat is a red » when they sent off Casemiro, « any dissent is a yellow » when Dalot got 2 yellows in the same action for acting frustrated, same as « any bad words are red cards » when Maguire got a red even though no one really heard him.

Then you’ll have people saying « yeah but these are the rules, said player is stupid to give the ref a decision to make », even though the exact same things have rarely been sanctioned before or since our players got a red.

At least refs are consistent in that they always judge us to the letter of law every time
 
Frosty said:
From former referee Graham Scott via The Athletic:

The last thing that video assistant referee Paul Howard would have wanted was a hair-pulling incident. After several similar situations in the Premier League this season, the refereeing body Professional Game Match Officials (PGMO) has been clinging onto its position that all such acts must be sanctioned with a red card, in the interests of consistency. But this one? Really?

The FA Commission that adjudicated on Manchester United’s appeal against Lisandro Martinez’s sending off for briefly tugging Dominic Calvert-Lewin’s in an aerial duel supported the decision to send him off.

Calvert-Lewin’s contact on Marc Cucurella was even more fleeting and surely fell short of the level of contact required for a red card. But Manchester United will undoubtedly see enough similarities to ask questions of PGMO, and they have my sympathy.
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Is everyone else seeing something completely different to how United fans are? This is just crazy talk playing down the severity of the incident. This should be the headline news about the officiating inconsistencies, rather than the actual result.

Can we hire Mark Clattenburg to submit an official complaint about standards, Forest style? I hope the club don't overlook this and kick up a fuss!
 
BBC live commentary barely mentioned the hair pull, they were all over the Martinez incident. It’s no wonder there are double standards
 
If it wasn't us getting stitched up it'd be hilarious how quickly something like this happened with a different result.

What do you do with a player like Cuccy who is quite short and has such wild hair though? It's inevitable in the jostlings at times you're going to accidentally get all in it.
Was different with Fellaini as he was a giant.
 
Sandikan said:
If it wasn't us getting stitched up it'd be hilarious how quickly something like this happened with a different result.

What do you do with a player like Cuccy who is quite short and has such wild hair though? It's inevitable in the jostlings at times you're going to accidentally get all in it.
Was different with Fellaini as he was a giant.
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Its silly as feck because it shouldnt be complicated at all to determine if it was done on purpose or not
 
NotChatGPT said:
Its silly as feck because it shouldnt be complicated at all to determine if it was done on purpose or not
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Yep. My boys Wycombe had Marcus Bean who had long hair, and a douche Morecambe player aggressively pulled his hair. Done retrospectively as the ref missed it and no VAR at that level.
That's the sort of incident that should be involved.

Although didn't Crouchy purposely pull that Jamaican fella's hair at the world cup when scoring one year!
 
DCL gave Cucurella a short but aggressive tug, whereas Martinez on DCL was more of a longer, playful fingering.

Oh and, apparently, there was hair pulling going on.
 
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Zed is not dead said:
It was the same as « any contact on an opponent’s throat is a red » when they sent off Casemiro, « any dissent is a yellow » when Dalot got 2 yellows in the same action for acting frustrated, same as « any bad words are red cards » when Maguire got a red even though no one really heard him.

Then you’ll have people saying « yeah but these are the rules, said player is stupid to give the ref a decision to make », even though the exact same things have rarely been sanctioned before or since our players got a red.

At least refs are consistent in that they always judge us to the letter of law every time
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The really funny part of the two yellow -> red for Dalot was that just prior to that, Nunes had made a yellow card tackle, threw the ball away in clear dissent, then proceeded to clap at the ref... all that within 30 seconds... so yeah, the ref does love to be consistent. One can understand that it can be difficult for different refs in different matches, but they can't be consistent in the same match
 
The problem was compounded when they doubled down on the Martinez decision. That means fans expect non-forceful hair pulls to be awarded a red card, even though most fans, players and referees don't believe they should be. Had they fessed up that the Martinez decision was the wrong call, at least we could understand hair pulls such as today's not getting punished.
 
Gio said:
The problem was compounded when they doubled down on the Martinez decision. That means fans expect non-forceful hair pulls to be awarded a red card, even though most fans, players and referees don't believe they should be. Had they fessed up that the Martinez decision was the wrong call, at least we could understand hair pulls such as today's not getting punished.
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This really, if they accepted the appeal you could justify it, but the useless arrogant twats doubled down and now will have to live with being called out on this every single time.
 
Has any official reasoning (excuse) been given by VAR or the FA following the game to justify not taking action against DCL?
 
Heinzesight said:
Said it loads of times but why the feck has retrospective action completely vanished? It’s not officially been stopped as far as I know.
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Yeah they got rid of it when they brought in VAR. It was an absurd decision and just shows these gobshites are completely incompetent.

Refs aren't infallible and even with video mistakes can be made or incidents missed or cleared too quickly. Not giving themselves the option to look at something again in the cold light of day is madness. They're just not interested in getting to the right decisions or preventing dangerous tackles or diving as long as they can claim the ref on the pitch has the final decision which is the most important thing apparently.
 
Can someone help me understand who makes the rules for football? Then explain if different authorities (such as FA, PGMOL or Premier League) can set their own interpretations of those rules - all of which may be somewhat different. Ultimately, during play, the referee (with or without the help of his video assistant) has the responsibility to make a decision while trying to avoid the pressure from players and spectators.
 
I really hope United issues another complaint to PGMOL for the red card to Martinez following the continuing travesties - inconsistencies, and how on earth they can argue that is violent conduct when the "victim" conducted a more violent incident just days later.
 
Rossa said:
I really hope United issues another complaint to PGMOL for the red card to Martinez following the continuing travesties - inconsistencies, and how on earth they can argue that is violent conduct when the "victim" conducted a more violent incident just days later.
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Yeah a formal one needs to be filed
 
Struggling to even find footage of the incident with it being removed from certain places. Just watched the 5min TNT highlights video and it didn't feature at all.

Seems like everything is being done to bury this. It's been a while since I've felt this aggrieved for such a clear injustice.
 
van Nistelrooy said:
Struggling to even find footage of the incident with it being removed from certain places. Just watched the 5min TNT highlights video and it didn't feature at all.

Seems like everything is being done to bury this. It's been a while since I've felt this aggrieved for such a clear injustice.
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Yeah complete injustice
 
Its actually laughable that since martinez red card there have been 2 hair pulls, the same ref in one instance, and the 'victim' becoming the aggressor
 
Withnail said:
Yeah they got rid of it when they brought in VAR. It was an absurd decision and just shows these gobshites are completely incompetent.

Refs aren't infallible and even with video mistakes can be made or incidents missed or cleared too quickly. Not giving themselves the option to look at something again in the cold light of day is madness. They're just not interested in getting to the right decisions or preventing dangerous tackles or diving as long as they can claim the ref on the pitch has the final decision which is the most important thing apparently.
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It really is madness isn’t it. Protecting their mates.

Take Walker’s stamp on Dorgu. They missed it and even though it’s clear as day, mistakes happen. But instead, it’s just totally ignored when it’s the easiest retrospective red you could give.
 
2 days ago an FA disciplinary panel had said hair pulling "ought not to be tolerated", "In the wider interests of football 'hair pulling' ought not to be tolerated and should be discouraged through consistent punishment."

so of course the person who got Martinez sent off gets away with a similar offence
 
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