We should have absolutely slammed that player. They could have shot us and not seen a foul called.
VAR and Refereeing 2025/26 | General Discussion
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I'll have to watch the replay again, but I don't think it's an intentional elbow. I think he goes to pull Bruno's shoulder back to get him off balance, and then as Bruno slows down and he moves past him he doesn't pull his elbow back and awkwardly hits him.
Could have been red if caught by the ref, but not clear and obvious error in my opinion.
Could have been red if caught by the ref, but not clear and obvious error in my opinion.
Stuart Atwell really hates us
Honestly Carrick needs to turn the dial up on the aggression against this ref.
Take the match ban
Take the match ban
It has nothing to do with the system. There's a clear bias from most PL refs against United.
Yep. Before they could justify it by citing the lack of replays. VAR just exposes that they're the problem. No system of refereeing (extra officials, replays, technology) will significantly improve things.
"He only elbowed him a little" is the only possible excuse i can imagine.
He doesn’t even try and hide it. Shafted us multiple times this season.
Refs just judge fouls on united players differently. Had it been the other way around, you can be sure it'll be reviewed and a red card issued
It's still a red if he doesn't touch him at all.
I'm tired of that. Every game makes me inch more and more towards stopping caring about premier league because of these clowns.
I don't know what is and isn't a red card anymore.
The PL is insane.
The PL is insane.
Nah, he wasn't catching up to whatever action Bruno was doing. He runs up on him from behind and swings his forearm into Bruno's face. Soft forearm but definitely intentional.
Perhaps intentionally elbowing in the face ought to be discouraged
Really looking forward to Dermot Gallagher telling us how running up to someone, looking right at them and then elbowing them square in the face shouldn't be a red card.
On my stream Dion Dublin said "there's not enough contact", he must have been expecting flying elbows.
Exactly. How does anyone view that and go “nah, nothing much in it, totally natural position”….
No red card, no penalty, what does VAR need? Maybe some oil money helps....
No monitor for atwell for an intentional elbow, it's a must when hair bobbles are pulled though.
Wouldn’t be surprised it’s not even discussed. It’s such an easy one for VAR.
Mbeumo taken out in the box late on not even given a look either. Sick of these bastards.
Edit: think it was Maz taken out.
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I can only assume that if you don’t think that’s a red card, you are legally blind
The last 2/3 seasons have really made me question if I just have red tinted glasses on at all times. We get really obvious decisions go against us, yet you'll hear pundits and refs defend them anyway.
I mean, that's an easy red. Ball is gone, looking at the player, elbow to the face. There is no objective reason why it isn't. Only subjective ones like "the contact wasn't enough" or "there wasn't any malice". That is completely up to the refs' discretion and what team he is reffing for/against. And we tend to be on the wrong side of those.
Had a thought watching that 'elbow' on Bruno there and it really grinds my gears no end. Was it intentional? Hard to say, seems he left something in. Would it have been a straight red had Martinez or Casemiro done it? I'd argue absolutely. And we can all gnash our teeth about how shit VAR is.
But the thought I'm having is - remember Mings and Ibrahimovic, in the pre-VAR days? Mings boots Ibrahimovic square in the head, but the ref misses it and there's no punishment, so the next chance he gets, Ibrahimovic absolutely wallops an elbow into the side of Mings head. I remember thinking at the time 'the ref knows he missed the first one so he is letting Zlatan off on this one'.
Now in the days of VAR we don't get on-field retribution anymore. Is football any better for it? Is it feck. If I recall correctly Zlatan and Mings were fine with each other by half time, the moment only lives on for two brutal attacks that cancelled each other out. Did they get suspended after? I definitely don't recall that if so.
If only VAR could give advice today to say 'I'm not sure that elbow on Bruno was intentional or not, but the next time someone sticks one on yet man, just let it go, fair is fair.'
But the thought I'm having is - remember Mings and Ibrahimovic, in the pre-VAR days? Mings boots Ibrahimovic square in the head, but the ref misses it and there's no punishment, so the next chance he gets, Ibrahimovic absolutely wallops an elbow into the side of Mings head. I remember thinking at the time 'the ref knows he missed the first one so he is letting Zlatan off on this one'.
Now in the days of VAR we don't get on-field retribution anymore. Is football any better for it? Is it feck. If I recall correctly Zlatan and Mings were fine with each other by half time, the moment only lives on for two brutal attacks that cancelled each other out. Did they get suspended after? I definitely don't recall that if so.
If only VAR could give advice today to say 'I'm not sure that elbow on Bruno was intentional or not, but the next time someone sticks one on yet man, just let it go, fair is fair.'
The line for what they will and won't get the ref to go and look at is my biggest grievance with var. We badly need a challenge system. Take it out of their hands completely.
So, no red card as not enough force when intentionally elbowing someone in the face after the ball has goneThat’s a new one. Touch someone’s hair bobble, though, even just slightly and it’s a 3 game ban. You won’t see this ‘not enough force with the intentional elbow’, again, just like all the other random rulings that only happen with us, such as Dalot two yellow cards for protesting a decision, etc.
Not even a yellow either, because well, it's a red card offense. They gave nothing because apparently waving your arm in someones face from behind intentionally is allowed. We should start doing that.
Carrick needs to turn the dial up on the touchline like Emery , Klopp etc.
He doesn't instill anything in our players
If a Inited player had done it, it was a red. It’s the most open and shut red card I’ve seen in a while. Intentional, as he flicked his arm towards Bruno’s face in an unnatural movement, and made contact. It’s not a hard decision to make. When the Ref or VAR see that, they have no choice but to issue a red card. How they’ve failed to do that is either rank incompetence or just straight up bias.
Attwell was awful, again. Zirkzee yellow was soft after all the fouls he didn’t get given with the same player. Sunderland player pulled the shirt of Shaw when he went past them, no yellow. Even the commentators knew they couldn’t just go quiet on that blatant one. Shaw got clattered late, too, not long after Zirkzee’s yellow for less and the ref still didn’t give the Sunderland player a yellow. Let Sunderland have their corner after the minute of added time in the first half but blew up when we had one at the end there.
Well let's be honest, Martinez should have been sent off so we're not really in position to complain about the red card on their end. Overall, shit ref.
Atwell is and always has been a poor ref.
Usually can't wait to jump into decisions against Utd but takes his times and doesn't give the obvious ones in favour of Utd.
I'm surprised he didn't give the hand ball, Martinez was a lucky. It's a clear red for that sly elbow on Bruno, Hume dragged Shaw down early on, clear yellow. None given. 3 easy decisions to make, but he takes the easy way out for all them.
Usually can't wait to jump into decisions against Utd but takes his times and doesn't give the obvious ones in favour of Utd.
I'm surprised he didn't give the hand ball, Martinez was a lucky. It's a clear red for that sly elbow on Bruno, Hume dragged Shaw down early on, clear yellow. None given. 3 easy decisions to make, but he takes the easy way out for all them.
It's a red but we got loads of soft decisions throughout the game. I was worried Martinez threw a slap at Brobbey but they didn't show a decent replay.
Poor by every standard other the PL's where he's very average.
I think its fairly obvious he’s trying to elbow Bruno while making it look innocent
Looked like me that he had tried to grab his ear during the wrestling, and then swung his hand into his face as they came apart
But that was on a not great stream so probably no where near close.
"Contact wasn't enough" was the ref's decision. Maybe if Angulo actually knocked out Bruno he would've done his job and rightfully sent him off. Sunderland leaving the game with zero cards as well was laughable. Xhaka and Alderete did everything to get booked today.
Why is everyone calling it an elbow on Bruno when it was a knock with the forearm? I think a yellow would've been fair enough, given it wasn't the elbow, but certainly borderline. Stupid VAR can't give the yellow at least.
He’s still trying to twat him
It's twattish, but he hasn't Ben Thatchered him. Was defo yellow/orange card and couldn't have moaned if it was red.
If he got a red then he would have only had himself to blame for being an idiot but I also didn't feel wildly hard done by when it was cleared.
Orange card I reckon
Orange card I reckon