VAR Decisions - PL 19/20 Season

Are you in favour of VAR in the PL?


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ivaldo

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How bout the idea that if they were never getting onto the end of it, it’s fair to say no goal was being scored. And if VAR determines those are penalties now, you’re turning non scoring situations into free goals. Which is gross.
How about the players, all of whom have had lengthy training on this, actually abide by the rules. It’s not hard. If the players are going to be a stubborn idiots and flagrantly break the rules then they’re rightly going to get penalised for it. What we know for certain is that players won’t continue to do this because they know referees will (finally) follow through with the punishment.

It’s no different to a defender fouling an attacker who is chasing down a through-ball they are never going to get. It’s still a foul, only you, like everyone else, will blame the players for his poor judgment, and not decide whether it was a foul based on whether the player was going to get there or not.
 

ForestRGoinUp

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How about the players, all of whom have had lengthy training on this, actually abide by the rules. It’s not hard. If the players are going to be a stubborn idiots and flagrantly break the rules then they’re rightly going to get penalised for it. What we know for certain is that players won’t continue to do this because they know referees will (finally) follow through with the punishment.

It’s no different to a defender fouling an attacker who is chasing down a through-ball they are never going to get. It’s still a foul, only you, like everyone else, will blame the players for his poor judgment, and not decide whether it was a foul based on whether the player was going to get there or not.
I’m actually just not for more penalties (free goals) being given for fouls in non scoring situations.
 

90 + 5min

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While I believe VAR can and will be good for football there are major questions about its use from what we could see just from today.

1. How long do you check situations prior the goal? Is it begining of attack or just last play? Where do you draw the line?
2. Sterlings goal that didnt count. You cant take that goal from him because it may be his clothes and not actully his body that is offside. Even with VAR we are going to have discussions.
3. No way there was only 5 minutes minimum extra time with all the VAR. Well, it didnt matter this time and ref and all people wanted to go home but with VAR, penalty, subs, injury… It should and would have been near 10min extra time. Can we make it go little bit faster? Difficult when humans are in charge and it is important
 

Revan

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So then what are people complaining about?

If he was offside and fabianski stepped off his line then what did VAR do wrong?
Absolutely nothing.
 

ivaldo

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I’m actually just not for more penalties (free goals) being given for fouls in non scoring situations.
No comment on your very obvious hypocrite on the matter? How about a keeper handling the ball just before it comes into the area when there are no attacking players around? Should we just play on?

It’s very simple. When rules are broken the correct punishment is given. Thankfully, this is a very easy thing to fix for players, and it will be all but wiped out from our game before long.

Doesn't it seem odd to you that you're advocating the continued breaking of rules by players when there is an incredibly easy fix available to them?
 
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Moonwalker

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So then what are people complaining about?

If he was offside and fabianski stepped off his line then what did VAR do wrong?
It didn't do anything wrong today. The funniest thing is, it would be perfectly understandable if it did, considering teething problems are to be expected, as that's been the experience of Italy and other countries, that it got better, gradually.
 

Superunknown

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How about the players, all of whom have had lengthy training on this, actually abide by the rules. It’s not hard. If the players are going to be a stubborn idiots and flagrantly break the rules then they’re rightly going to get penalised for it. What we know for certain is that players won’t continue to do this because they know referees will (finally) follow through with the punishment.

It’s no different to a defender fouling an attacker who is chasing down a through-ball they are never going to get. It’s still a foul, only you, like everyone else, will blame the players for his poor judgment, and not decide whether it was a foul based on whether the player was going to get there or not.
100% agree with this.

The offside decisions seem to be the biggest area of concern here. Well, maybe the rule needs updating and more clarifying. But, I saw an excellent comment earlier somewhere about the comparison between offside decisions and goal-line decisions. "If goals are decided by cm and mm (due to goal-line technology), then why not offsides?" Couldn't really disagree with that.

Yes, it has teething problems, but this will ultimately lead to more right calls being made and hopefully the rules being enforced more accurately. Penalties have always wound me up with how far some keepers come off their line and the amount of encroachment that takes place. It's about time that this was picked up on.
 
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sullydnl

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How about the players, all of whom have had lengthy training on this, actually abide by the rules. It’s not hard. If the players are going to be a stubborn idiots and flagrantly break the rules then they’re rightly going to get penalised for it. What we know for certain is that players won’t continue to do this because they know referees will (finally) follow through with the punishment.

It’s no different to a defender fouling an attacker who is chasing down a through-ball they are never going to get. It’s still a foul, only you, like everyone else, will blame the players for his poor judgment, and not decide whether it was a foul based on whether the player was going to get there or not.
Correct.
 

kouroux

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100% agree with this.

The offside decisions seem to be the biggest area of concern here. Well, maybe the rule needs updating and more clarifying. But, I saw an excellent comment earlier somewhere about the comparison between offside decisions and goal-line decisions. "If goals are decided by cm and mm (due to goal-line technology), then why not offsides?" Couldn't really disagree with that.

Yes, it has teething problems, but this will ultimately lead to more right calls being made and hopefully the rules being enforced more accurately. Penalties have always wound me up with how far some keepers come off their line and the amount of encroachment that takes place. It's about time that this was picked up on.
Comparing goal line tech and VAR for offside is a good point. I just think we have been under the influence of "letting the attacker get the benefit" if things are close that many don't realize, it is borderline useless if we have technology for it.
 

ThatsGreat

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I love it, but it could be because I have a persecution complex when it comes to Arsenal and feel that we're always getting the short end of that stick.
 

Amarsdd

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Some want instatenous correct decisions. It's never gonna happen
VAR will always be subject to criticism until it reaches a point that goal line tech is right now, fully objective and decisions in 5-10seconds. But I can think of machine learning techniques that can be applied towards automating and speeding up esp. offside and handball decisions with good reliability. Of course, you will need an expert to check and finalize those automated decisions in the beginning until the technique is refined to be 99+% reliable.
 
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kouroux

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VAR will always be subject to criticism until it reaches a point that goal time tech is right now, fully objective and decisions in 5-10seconds. But I can think of machine learning techniques that can be applied towards automating and speeding up esp. offside and handball decisions with good reliability. Of course, you will need an expert to check and finalize those automated decisions in the beginning until the technique is refined to be 99+% reliable.
That should be the aim long term, I don't see how we get to something much faster unless they develop the technology that is akin to the one in videogames for offsides.
Until then, we have to go through the current steps, some wanna kill it in its development and just have the final version which is impossible
 

Dante

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The decisions are not the issue, since they're correct at a much higher rate than a referee could ever hope to achieve on his own.

The issue is the speed with which they're reached. I've not seen much to suggest they'll be prohibitively slow.

This is the new paradigm. Adjust to it.
 

RyRy11

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I can't remember the dates but it was in the EPL era.
"The 2005 edition of the Laws of the Game included a new IFAB decision that stated, "In the definition of offside position, 'nearer to his opponents' goal line' means that any part of their head, body or feet is nearer to their opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent. The arms are not included in this definition".

You've only had 14 years to get used to the light of day rule not being enforced.
 

ForestRGoinUp

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The decisions are not the issue, since they're correct at a much higher rate than a referee could ever hope to achieve on his own.

The issue is the speed with which they're reached. I've not seen much to suggest they'll be prohibitively slow.

This is the new paradigm. Adjust to it.
Hmm i seem to recall data suggesting that referees were getting 90%+ of their decision correct. Calling this a much higher rate is a bit disingenuous, no?
 

Fully Fledged

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"The 2005 edition of the Laws of the Game included a new IFAB decision that stated, "In the definition of offside position, 'nearer to his opponents' goal line' means that any part of their head, body or feet is nearer to their opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent. The arms are not included in this definition".

You've only had 14 years to get used to the light of day rule not being enforced.
I wasn't saying that I'm not used to it. Somebody said that the current law has always stood and I said that they haven't.
 

roseguy64

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So this is predicting the flight of a ball? Thats not the same as a yes or no answer?
Exactly. It's the wrong comparison. There's a lot of subjectivity in predicting the flight of an object regardless of how accurate the system is. A better comparison would be the no ball in cricket. You're either over the line or not. Same for offside.
 

giorno

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Just seen a replay of City's 5th goal, wasn't paying attention during the game but...how in the fecking hell did that goal stand????? :houllier::houllier::houllier:
 

edcunited1878

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After Matchweek 1, there was only one game where teams were impacted by VAR (i.e. points taken away from a decision) and that was Wolves v. Leicester.

Without VAR, Wolves would have won 1-0 over Leicester but it ended up goalless so the points were shared.


6:47

The ball is cradled by Boly's arm after it pings off couple bodies, drops favorably into the path of Dendonker who lashes it home. But again, no part of the arm/hand can be used for a goal or in the build up for a goal even if it wasn't on purpose.
 
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Sunny Jim

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We have had VAR in Poland for 3 years. A few goals got rulled out becasue there was a foul in the build up some 40/50 meteres bofere the box and some 30 seconds before the goal. The other thing is 90% of tackles reviewed by VAR end up as fouls. Slo mo makes thing looks worse.
 

Revan

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VAR will always be subject to criticism until it reaches a point that goal line tech is right now, fully objective and decisions in 5-10seconds. But I can think of machine learning techniques that can be applied towards automating and speeding up esp. offside and handball decisions with good reliability. Of course, you will need an expert to check and finalize those automated decisions in the beginning until the technique is refined to be 99+% reliable.
I don't think that ML is yet at that stage to be reliable in offsides and especially penalties (though with the current relaxation of handball counting as penalties, it should be easier). But would be nice if we see some progress on that aspect, and so make the decisions much faster.

Fifa should fund the research in that aspect.
 

ROFLUTION

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The NFL model is brilliant but that's been honed over many years and with the game having so many natural breaks, it has the time to explain everything
Sure, but the decisions could also just be explained after the game. Right now its just a VAR wagon and sort of a Blackbox where we dont have any transparency and in reality itd be easier to bribe an unknown face in the VAR booth than a ref. It looked very shady at Copa America

I also like the NFL way in the regards that they can challenge a call. Think that makes the game way more fluid and human, which VAR severely lacks.
 

Speedy30

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Sure, but the decisions could also just be explained after the game. Right now its just a VAR wagon and sort of a Blackbox where we dont have any transparency and in reality itd be easier to bribe an unknown face in the VAR booth than a ref. It looked very shady at Copa America

I also like the NFL way in the regards that they can challenge a call. Think that makes the game way more fluid and human, which VAR severely lacks.
I do agree with the challenges. Not sure how it would be brought in and maybe the current use of VAR would have to go but it would be good to see that.
 

Toad

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Definite pen there, if Smalling plays he may get away with it after watching that...
 

sullydnl

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The PL said their version of VAR would be a lot more stringent and that was evidence of it.

Looked a penalty to me but the question for VAR isn't whether it's a penalty, it's whether the referee fecked up badly enough in not giving a penalty that they need to intervene.
 

Toad

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The PL said their version of VAR would be a lot more stringent and that was evidence of it.

Looked a penalty to me but the question for VAR isn't whether it's a penalty, it's whether the referee fecked up badly enough in not giving a penalty that they need to intervene.
It would annoy me if that happened to us though. 95% would think that is a penalty, most likely even the VAR panel, but because the ref said no it stands. But then again, what’s the point in having a ref if VAR panel make every decision. I’m contradicting myself here and feel I should stop. /end
 

cyberman

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Neville has fallen into the trap that he has to agree with VAR decisions or it hasn't worked.
 

Wiltord02

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Clear Penalty. Going to be fun when in a future game, a similar situation results in a penalty via VAR.

VAR is only as good as the moron referee in charge of it.
 

Mrs Smoker

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Was there mere putting the hands on poor City lad, or was there pulling or pushing? I haven't seen the latter, so I like the call.