Side note. The fact we have quite a few on here still trying to argue that such an incredibly obvious decision was incorrect just shows how useless VAR is at getting rid of football fans pervasive sense of injustice. So we put up with all this crap and everybody keeps right on moaning regardless.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Disallowed for handball last night. Thoughts?
That's crazy. No VAR?
Looks a terrible decision. The VAR has presumably concluded that the defender headed it and it just flicked the arm of the attacker? There’s no real suggestion of that from those clips though. Be interesting to see what they come out with in response.
This also highlights one of the most stupid rules in football. Even if it had flicked his arm, there’s clearly no intent there. That rule that any contact with a scorer’s arm rules out a goal just needs to be binned immediately - that would remove any issue with what was clearly a perfectly good goal.
Dorgu's is very obviously a red card. I don't think he went in with malicious intent, and sure he wasn't helped by the poor weather conditions, but it's a blatant red.
I also agree the refereeing was inconsistent beyond that, and that Ipswich players should've received more yellow cards. This has been a common theme in a lot of our games this year, which while it's not "massive" decisions like a goal call or a red card, affect the game massively. It's very frustrating.
I also agree the refereeing was inconsistent beyond that, and that Ipswich players should've received more yellow cards. This has been a common theme in a lot of our games this year, which while it's not "massive" decisions like a goal call or a red card, affect the game massively. It's very frustrating.
I wouldn't take comments during or right after the game too serious. The correct decision was made yesterday eventhough I must admit I commented against it during the game.
Three match ban for this seems harsh though as it didn't looked deliberate at all, but yeah ...
You think it's wrong because you don't understand the criteria for a red card, excessive force wasn't the reason he was sent off, endangering an opponent is why he was.
The tackle resulted with his studs over the top of the ball into the shin, clearly there was no maliciousness or intent but that's a potential leg-breaker and the reason it's a clear red
Not sure why there's any debate on the Dorgu tackle tbf, it was a deserved red.
I don't agree with it either. Happy to be in the minority. Modern football
100%. With the footnote that he was also very unlucky due to the unusual action and position of the other player’s leg which he just couldn’t anticipate. Terrible luck which sums up our season.
This is the bit that has me on the fence: if a player randomly sticks his limb in a position that doesn't make sense, how is, here, Dorgu supposed to anticipate that?
It's kind of the inverse of that Rashford sending off in the CL, when Rashford went do a reasonable skill with the ball, and the defender just happened to put his foot underneath Rashford's, for no good reason (ie it wasn't where he would put it to attempt a tackle).
My point being, there are countless acts in a football match that could endanger an opponent if they do something unexpected, but very few are punished in this way. I think it has to be based on the action rather than the outcome. Here the outcome is agreeably savage, and any still looks a clear red. But I don't believe Dorgu's action would have caused any harm if Hutchinson hadn't screwed up.
Edit: the ole ESPN VAR guy claiming it was excessive force. If that's the case I can agree with the red.
It’s a weird one because 99/100 the action of Dorgu does nothing but win the ball. I’m convinced his only intention is win ball. Yes it is red today, but I’m not convinced anyone should get red because of luck and chance led to contact that was not intended or action was not wreckless if not intended.
Mateta has his head kicked off his shoulders by the Millwall keeper, and Michael Oliver doesn't even give a foul. I suppose the "just get rid of VAR" gang would be happy enough with that outcome?
What the actual feck
Ah yes, that 1 in a 100+ games incident that proves that every other game should be ruined, right?
No. The keeper can rightly be given a decent ban post match if the officials miss it. However, even a ref as bad as Oliver probably gives a red in this incident given the severity of the injury, if he doesn't have VAR to fall back on.
After the match but he still needs to be sent off from whatever current game. So in that aspect VAR is a good tool
Sorry but that is absolute nonsense. Michael Oliver is the last referee to want his decisions corrected.
Says more about Oliver (and his lack of ability) than the pros/cons of VAR t.b.h.
Any ref who doesn't see that head snapping movement has no business reffing at any level, whether theyre behind or not. Var shouldn't be needed.
That's a challenge bordering on where you'd want to see an investigation done outside football let alone a lengthy ban. Violent and fully intentional.
Oh nice, no way this rule gets badly implemented by the PL refs and never enforced in some situations.
Law already exists, it's meant to be an indirect free kick... but it's never, ever been enforced... They should just enforce it as it exists now, would be loads more goals and it'd stop in a few games.
That's an assault by the Milwall GK, lengthy ban needed.
Oliver missed that one? Well, to be fair it was nothing compared to the viscious assault by De Ligt on that WHU player. Thankfully he saw that.
I think the motivation in this rule change is that a fresh rule plus referees not being asked to give an indirect free kick 8 yards from goal might actually see some consistency. It’s a more proportionate and enforceable rule.
Imagine games against Arsenal. A Goalkeeper holds the ball for longer than the 8 seconds so concedes a corner, Arsenal take 45-60 seconds to take said corner once they've placed the ball.
Refs with certain teams 1.....2.....3.....4.....5.....6.....7.....8
Refs with other teams 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8
Keepers hold the ball for upwards of 30 seconds, it's ridiculous.
Now, we never enforced that rule, so here's another rule, we won't enforce properly or consistently, just like dissent, time wasting, kicking the ball away, deliberate fouls, foul throws etc...
The game needs more indirect free kicks.
Just read that there was an 8 minute VAR check in the Bournemouth/Wolves game to disallow a goal.
"Clear and obvious" eh?
"Clear and obvious" eh?
Oliver is probably the worst ref in the league.
It used to exist as 6 seconds, but that's long gone. For years it's just been vague wording like not holding it longer than necessary or some crap.
There's no probably about it. He's a terrible ref
Michael Oliver on the pitch
Michael Oliver on VAR
Michael Oliver on VAR
Watching MotD to see the GK's challenge again, how the hell Oliver needed VAR is beyond me. Shocking Referee.
He needs to be stood down for a while, but the PGMOL won't do that to their Golden Boy.
Also what was Cunha's ref for...the left...the right...the kick or putting his head in?
He needs to be stood down for a while, but the PGMOL won't do that to their Golden Boy.
Also what was Cunha's ref for...the left...the right...the kick or putting his head in?
That Mateta challenge is one of the worst I’ve ever seen.
I cant remember the last time more than 2 weeks has passed without Oliver involved in some absurd controversy. He's become a meme and the poster boy for the failure of PGMOL. Part of me wonders if he just wanted to get some air time on the mic for a televised match. There's something not right about him
Michael Oliver didnt even give a free kick. Think about that.
How do you see that challenge and not know right away is a red? Ffs.
Michael Oliver should not be a referee.
I know still photos are deceiving, but it looks he has a clear view of that awful challenge on Mateta and he doesn't even issue a stoppage in play.
Incompetent is a kind word to describe him.
I know still photos are deceiving, but it looks he has a clear view of that awful challenge on Mateta and he doesn't even issue a stoppage in play.
Incompetent is a kind word to describe him.
Michael Oliver dropped for this weekend's fixtures.