VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

Remember the geese said:
I was in the Stretford End, so this happened right in front of me. Due to the speed it occurred, it was difficult to be 100% certain, but I thought it looked a pen.

This is the first time I've seen it back and it's an absolute disgrace that this wasn't awarded. Why do people think this is ok? If you are on a VAR duty and deem this not to be a penalty, you should be relieved of your duties. It's that simple. This is not acceptable. Why has nothing been made of this? No outrage on Sky I assume.
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Nothing. They showed, I think, just 1 replay from an unclear angle and Neville immediately waved it off.
 
Pexbo said:
I’ll be honest, it’s not the clearest penalty I’ve ever seen. The angle of contact is weird, as is Casemiro’s claim to be in control etc. Just a scrappy bit of play between two players?
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Clear pen. Casemiro is in control of the situation. He gets to the ball first. The defender swings his boot and clearly makes contact with him and gets nowhere near the ball.
 
Pexbo said:
I’ll be honest, it’s not the clearest penalty I’ve ever seen. The angle of contact is weird, as is Casemiro’s claim to be in control etc. Just a scrappy bit of play between two players?
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Eh…he boots him then clatters him
 
LawCharltonBest said:


This was a clear penalty by the way. Thought it at the time and had to laugh at how quickly the commentators dismissed it

United do that and it’s reviewed and then given, every time
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100% penalty and its not even a debate that it gets given at the other end if casemiro swings in like that. Not to mention that they should have had 2 players off, and Garnacho was inside the box when fouled. For 4 big calls to all go against you, is very strange.
 
I don't think it's rigged. The premier league refs are just useless and when confronted with a strong home support, they crumple. Why don't they bring in some decent refs from Europe?
 
Thom Merrilin said:
I don't think it's rigged. The premier league refs are just useless and when confronted with a strong home support, they crumple. Why don't they bring in some decent refs from Europe?
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Brexit means Brexit
 
There's a noticeable difference between league and europe. They're sometimes crap in europe but there isn't this constant flow of game deciding favouritism. Its a different experience watching a European game, its that stark
 
Said it before but Premier League games are often decided by what level of contact is considered a foul and how good you are at getting away with unbalancing or stopping players physically.
 
saivet said:
The challenge from Tonali on Dalot? If so, I don't think that's a penalty at all. I missed the first half so may have missed something else.
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He's run into him, and shoved him with 2 hands.
Not won the ball or come close to doing so. Seems not to have been given because Dalot didn't strive to stay up.
 
Newcastle are undeniably fit, strong and athletic and deserve credit for it. But every time I watch them, not just against us, it seem as if refs have bought this narrative and apply a way higher threshold. If its Newcastle it must just be tough, aggressive play. They get away with total murder in almsot every aspect of the game and I cannot think of a weaker, more pathetic referee/man than Chris Kavanagh to officiate them. He looks genuinely terriifed of their players. The Schar situtaion wa laughbale, not only that he didnt book him at any point, but at the corner as Schar repeatedly pushed, fouled and tried to intimidate Amass, Kavanagh just took no strong control of it and ended up booking Yoro for pushing Shcar in frustration.

Kavanagh is a complete weakling of a man, bullied into giving a red against us earlier in the season, and separately, Newcastle get more freedom to foul than any team I can remember, because hey, theyre just a tough football loving bunch from up north
 
Drainy said:
Said it before but Premier League games are often decided by what level of contact is considered a foul and how good you are at getting away with unbalancing or stopping players physically.
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I think many fans underestimate the value of this. How many times the ref decides the flow of the game and who is given possesion.

Our games in Europe have such a different feel to them due way we are refereed in those games.
 
SER19 said:
Newcastle are undeniably fit, strong and athletic and deserve credit for it. But every time I watch them, not just against us, it seem as if refs have bought this narrative and apply a way higher threshold. If its Newcastle it must just be tough, aggressive play. They get away with total murder in almsot every aspect of the game and I cannot think of a weaker, more pathetic referee/man than Chris Kavanagh to officiate them. He looks genuinely terriifed of their players. The Schar situtaion wa laughbale, not only that he didnt book him at any point, but at the corner as Schar repeatedly pushed, fouled and tried to intimidate Amass, Kavanagh just took no strong control of it and ended up booking Yoro for pushing Shcar in frustration.

Kavanagh is a complete weakling of a man, bullied into giving a red against us earlier in the season, and separately, Newcastle get more freedom to foul than any team I can remember, because hey, theyre just a tough football loving bunch from up north
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So true, and we know from Clatternburgs comments over the years about how refs basically play the occasion.
 
Its not going to change as Ruben wont complain. He should be calling it out.
 
Seriously, penalty for foul on Dalot, completely different result.
Same as one/two penalties against City.
Fekkin sick of the acceptance of it
 
We must be the meekest club in the league. There’s a reason managers like sir Alex and klopp used to put pressure on the refs. All these marginal gains we keep hearing about, and we aren’t making use of a glaring one
 
If we had got away with that push, and somehow lucked a draw or something, TalkSport would still be blathering on about it all week.

Instead there's one replay, dismissed in a few seconds because 'there's not enough contact', and it's forgotten.

We're just a doormat.
 
Sure we can add that to the 65 other nailed on pens we should have got this season.

If that is at the other end there is not a Utd fan on this site who thinks its a pen.
 
Bobski said:
Sure we can add that to the 65 other nailed on pens we should have got this season.

If that is at the other end there is not a Utd fan on this site who thinks its a pen.
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Do you think? I think a lot of united fans would think it’s a pen.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Do you think? I think a lot of united fans would think it’s a pen.
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Well maybe, but given the hysteria around refs in match threads I wouldn't expect it.

Remember that first Sociedad pen, so many screaming that it was never a pen, but then the Cas one from the other day with about a 10th of the contact was nailed on.
 
The thing with these marginal ones is that you can argue for or against each one individually, and accept that its not that big of a deal. I really feel though with United, its the sheer volume of marginal ones that we don't get. It seems so unlikely that so many 50:50 or 40:60 or 60:40 calls could all end up being 'no decision in uniteds favour.' When we do get a penalty or opposition red card it seems as if it is always an absolute stonewaller, whereas our own conceded penalties and red cards can just be bizarre. Fernandes v spurs this season, the west ham penalty - both stand out examples- we are never ever ever getting those 2 calls.

So Casemiro v kovacic last weekend wasn't a scandal, Tonali v Dalot this weekend wasn't a scandal, DIas on Hojlund in the derby wasn't a scandal, but it gets to the point where you have decisions like that stacking up to countless ones against united, and its hard not to think that referees just judge it safer to not award in Uniteds favour. No other club brings on such a pile-on as when a margin call goes Uniteds way and these refs are making their lives easy.
 
The fact Michael Oliver was side hustling refereeing for Abu Dhabi and now is considered the 'best ref in the country's is really fecking worrying
 
SER19 said:
The thing with these marginal ones is that you can argue for or against each one individually, and accept that its not that big of a deal. I really feel though with United, its the sheer volume of marginal ones that we don't get. It seems so unlikely that so many 50:50 or 40:60 or 60:40 calls could all end up being 'no decision in uniteds favour.' When we do get a penalty or opposition red card it seems as if it is always an absolute stonewaller, whereas our own conceded penalties and red cards can just be bizarre. Fernandes v spurs this season, the west ham penalty - both stand out examples- we are never ever ever getting those 2 calls.

So Casemiro v kovacic last weekend wasn't a scandal, Tonali v Dalot this weekend wasn't a scandal, DIas on Hojlund in the derby wasn't a scandal, but it gets to the point where you have decisions like that stacking up to countless ones against united, and its hard not to think that referees just judge it safer to not award in Uniteds favour. No other club brings on such a pile-on as when a margin call goes Uniteds way and these refs are making their lives easy.
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Agree with you entirely.

I don’t believe it’s some sort of conspiracy, but years ago I came to the conclusion that referees have realised that giving a favourable decision to United, if it subsequently is adjudged incorrect, is met with a huge amount of controversy and remains a talking point for days on end. A ref denying United a major decision is simply giving himself a quieter life, and sensibly avoiding a hornet’s nest of criticism.
 
Northstand said:
Agree with you entirely.

I don’t believe it’s some sort of conspiracy, but years ago I came to the conclusion that referees have realised that giving a favourable decision to United, if it subsequently is adjudged incorrect, is met with a huge amount of controversy and remains a talking point for days on end. A ref denying United a major decision is simply giving himself a quieter life, and sensibly avoiding a hornet’s nest of criticism.
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I really think its that simple. I think maybe 2 or 3 have a genuine anti united bias that they probably try to quell as much as they can, but for the most part yes, the attention a pro United call gets is absolutely insane. Any ref that does it and god forbid gets one wrong in our favour will essentially be villainised online for weeks and will be the main talking point on mainstream broadcasters for at least a few days. His var audio will be scrutinised, and generally he becomes under the spotlight to such a huge degree that doesnt happen with other clubs. To support my theory I would point to Michael Oliver not awarding a 96th minute penalty in a title decider - quite literally the biggest decision possible, and other than Liverpool fans, and the United fans who believe Oliver to be actually corrupt - it literally got breezed past. I remember watching the post match analysis that day and my jaw was on the floor. We get lengthy analysis of a penalty in a 2-1 win against any mid table side in a game of no consequence and there is nothing spoken about. If Oliver gave us a title winning decision, he would be eternally etched as a pro united corrupt official, despite all the evidence that this is mad to even think.

Its all a legacy of the Ferguson years of course, when opposition fans genuinely worked themselves into a state of utter conspiracy.
 
SER19 said:
The thing with these marginal ones is that you can argue for or against each one individually, and accept that its not that big of a deal. I really feel though with United, its the sheer volume of marginal ones that we don't get. It seems so unlikely that so many 50:50 or 40:60 or 60:40 calls could all end up being 'no decision in uniteds favour.' When we do get a penalty or opposition red card it seems as if it is always an absolute stonewaller, whereas our own conceded penalties and red cards can just be bizarre. Fernandes v spurs this season, the west ham penalty - both stand out examples- we are never ever ever getting those 2 calls.

So Casemiro v kovacic last weekend wasn't a scandal, Tonali v Dalot this weekend wasn't a scandal, DIas on Hojlund in the derby wasn't a scandal, but it gets to the point where you have decisions like that stacking up to countless ones against united, and its hard not to think that referees just judge it safer to not award in Uniteds favour. No other club brings on such a pile-on as when a margin call goes Uniteds way and these refs are making their lives easy.
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Exactly this. And because they're "marginal", it's easy to dismiss them as being correct calls (for the most part) without taking into the consideration it's the overall trend that is worrying.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Exactly this. And because they're "marginal", it's easy to dismiss them as being correct calls (for the most part) without taking into the consideration it's the overall trend that is worrying.
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Yes and everything marginal can be justified. Another great example is the 2 penalties given for Chelsea against us last season. You can watch and rewatch and say 'yeah theyre both penalties' and the ref has therefore absolutely nothing to worry about - but they are both so unbelievably soft, I really dont think we'd get one, much less both of them. But in both cases, in the context of that game, not giving a marginal penalty against United is just something too few refs are strong enough to do. Gillett is obviously weak, and his life was made incredibly easy by giving both. Nobody but United fans remember how soft they were. I would say 1, but arguably neither are penalties. The flip side is if he had given neither - I think it would still be spoken about in advance of united v chelsea fixtures, and Gillett may well have been 'rested' for the following week due to the scrutiny.
 
If attacker's goal side and you put both arms around him, you're asking for trouble.
 
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