They just see his goals and don’t study the build up to other City attacks.
Varchester City 18/19 discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Or they just don't think it's top class because it isn't. He's not a great playmaker with the ball at his feet. Doesn't mean he hasn't shown signs of being able to develop that part of his game, but sure isn't a major strongpoint right now.
Neither I nor the poster I replied to referred to his build up play as “top class” but he certainly ain’t the tap-in merchant some have him down as.
He is a total nuisance to opponents in his ability to chase down opponents looking to pass the ball around the backline. He also is adept in drawing defenders with his dummy runs freeing up space for teammates. That isn’t recorded in OPTA stats.
He’s a relative kid who’s achieved a lot at a young age and whose best years are ahead of him.
He has had 2 significant injuries while at City and is looking forward to getting through this season missing few games. Let’s revisit this subject in 9 months time and I think you’ll see what I mean.
I agree with that. I think his deficiencies in build up play and general creation/playmaking are more apparent with Brazil than they are with City due to Pep's system and how he's drilled everybody to operate as a unit within it on top of having naturally gifted playmakers like KDB and Silva.
I do think Jesus could and is likely to develop further as more of a hub for City's build up play than he is now.
I wouldn't say he is a great playmaker with the ball at his feet as well but he involved more than you perceive relative to the main strikers, say, at the Big 6 clubs.
Comparing to Salah, Kane, Morata, Lukaku, Aubameyang and Aguero and using the analytics measures from understat his numbers are mighty impressive:
2nd - xG p90 (non penalty)
1st - xG Buildup p90
1st - xG Chain p90
Other impressive stuff for Jesus:
- he was 1 of only 6 players in the league who had 20+ big chances (as defined by OPTA) in 17/18. His conversion percentage was the best.
- from the top 25 goalscorers in the league (excluding pens) he had the best conversion rate of 25%.
Stats are misleading though. I just typed in all his goals on youtube and they're nearly all tap ins
. I disagree, his build up play is good, sometimes his passing decisions can be baffling but in the whole for a young player he hold the ball up well brings other players in and added with excellent movement his build up play is goodNo it isn't
His work rate and movement is good, his passing and build up play is not 'top class'.
They comfortably have the strongest squad and 11 in the league but Liverpool have a lot of positive momentum going into the season.
I think if United can get off to a good start, we could possibly challenge them but I think it will be tough.
They have a number of match winners in their team that will get them points on days where the team don’t play that well or face a rally tough defence. United don’t have that currently.
I think if United can get off to a good start, we could possibly challenge them but I think it will be tough.
They have a number of match winners in their team that will get them points on days where the team don’t play that well or face a rally tough defence. United don’t have that currently.
Maybe it’s just a matter of perception but from a City POV United have quite a few players who can chip in with a late winner or 2.
Lukaku, Mata, Lingard, Fellaini and Smalling all seem to have come up with plenty of game changers, Sanchez and Yerry Mina if you get him should be added to the list when they settle down.
I’m thinking the narrative regarding retaining the title being so tough will be the tool Pep will employ to get this lot motivated for the season. It’s the perfect foil to complacency from having won it.
They have the players, depth, manager, money to do it, but the secret ingredient is what some are saying is so difficult to do, back to back titles! That’s what I think Pep is drilling into them, along with the forever money they get to do the job anyway.
Having said that, the competition in that top six is looking very tasty for the coming season. If it was a given that City will win it, none of would be giving this whole football lark any sort of attention at all.
They have the players, depth, manager, money to do it, but the secret ingredient is what some are saying is so difficult to do, back to back titles! That’s what I think Pep is drilling into them, along with the forever money they get to do the job anyway.
Having said that, the competition in that top six is looking very tasty for the coming season. If it was a given that City will win it, none of would be giving this whole football lark any sort of attention at all.
Don't think City will reach the same heights as last season ( 100 points) but they will still be the team to beat.
Expect them to get 90+ points.
Guardiola's teams are relentless in the league.
Guardiola's teams are relentless in the league.
I think they'll need to get a few poor results sooner than later. Last year they had an incredible start and teams started to fear them.
If a team thinks they can get points off you they will play to get points. Not this sit deep and hope for the best nonsense.
If a team thinks they can get points off you they will play to get points. Not this sit deep and hope for the best nonsense.
But not all teams have the players to choose which system to play against City.
Put simply the 2 main systems are either the high press or the sit deep and hit on the break. Some teams just don’t have the personnel to use the high press that Liverpool and Spurs have had success with vs City on occasion in the last two years, if they try it they’ll be passed through and leaving an ocean of space for City’s pacy forwards to run into.
Teams like West Ham,Everton, Burnley and Huddersfield give City problems with a deep, packed defence and forced Pep to bring in Mahrez to give us another option to counter it.
It is interesting what has happened to Etihad recently. They have for years had pretty much unlimited money thrown at them by the gov of Abu Dhabi. Part of a project to put Abu Dhabi on the map. Manchester City is another part of this project and neither business has been anywhere close to being run as a going concern.
Etihad has failed for a number of reasons. They have lost billions of dollars over the years ($1.5 billion in 2017 alone). They have had to abandon trying to become a massive global player and compete with Emirates and Qatar. It's a huge climbdown given the rivalry between the ruling families of Abu Dhabi/Dubai. The tap has been turned off. To survive they are having to shrink. Cancel routes and aircraft orders, lay off staff and basically become kind of a glorified regional airline.
Anyway, I find this interesting because of the parallels with City. They are also held in an artificially high position because of seemingly unlimited funds. What the Etihad debacle proves though is that there is a point where enough is enough. With more losses to come at Etihad while they restructure, perhaps the tap will be turned off at City too.
Etihad has failed for a number of reasons. They have lost billions of dollars over the years ($1.5 billion in 2017 alone). They have had to abandon trying to become a massive global player and compete with Emirates and Qatar. It's a huge climbdown given the rivalry between the ruling families of Abu Dhabi/Dubai. The tap has been turned off. To survive they are having to shrink. Cancel routes and aircraft orders, lay off staff and basically become kind of a glorified regional airline.
Anyway, I find this interesting because of the parallels with City. They are also held in an artificially high position because of seemingly unlimited funds. What the Etihad debacle proves though is that there is a point where enough is enough. With more losses to come at Etihad while they restructure, perhaps the tap will be turned off at City too.
They have so many attacking options... if one doesn't perform well They could just replace him with another one. It will be tough to compete against City next season, unless if by some miracle (hopefully) their attacks don't score as much as They did last season and/or their defense becomes a liability or Pep starts throwing tantrum when things don't go his way.
Given we have a Ronaldo-less Real Madrid this season, I'm worried this might actually be their season.
PSG are the only ones I'd be have concerns over if I were City fan. Which I'm not, thank God.
PSG are the only ones I'd be have concerns over if I were City fan. Which I'm not, thank God.
Does it really matter though? A few years ago the thought would make me cringe hard as it did with Chelsea a decade ago. But these projects will inevitably win the champions league. They have to. That’s what they’re paying for. But did it make a jot of difference in how people perceive Chelsea? They won it with a part time manager. Would be far worse for Liverpool to, City are just plastic and sooner they get it over and done with the better. Well not the better, but nowhere to go from there.
It’s going to be a matter of who comes closest to them this season isn’t it lads ? I’m trying to stay positive but...
Haven't left first gear. I don't expect them to get 100points again. But people thinking there's going to be a big difference in their performance levels between last season and this are going to be disappointed imo.
Not even the first game of the season and the City fauning has begun in earnest. Oh well.
Pep will be given as much as he want's to spend while at City. It would make no sense to go to the effort & expense of hiring him but then not back him. Mansour won't be bothered in the slightest at the losses he's made at City. He will have known it was probably going to cost him a few Billion. It's still pocket change to him though. He's likely had some fun & raised his profile which is what it was all about to him anyway. Much like Roman the end game for Mansour is the CL. It's highly unlikely Pep stays on beyond the next 2 seasons. Whether they win the CL or not in this time, would expect them to reduce their transfer spending dramatically when he's gone. The end game will have been reached either way.
Is it gonna be another season of the City thread getting bumped every time they play with relentless fawning and eulogising.
Not to mention every City player having their own player performance thread no doubt.
Not to mention every City player having their own player performance thread no doubt.
I think that the biggest obstacle in their way will be Juventus. With Ronaldo and Bonucci, they’re all in and their crusty veterans know that it’s now or never.
Kinda frightening that for most of last season they didn’t have Mendy. The guy is incredible, his ability to get forward and willingness to do so would be a game changer for most teams. Amount of times he has been open for a pass in and around the Chelsea box.
Aye.
I thought Delph was very good last season, standing in for Mendy. It will be interesting to see if Mendy can tuck into midfield if needed, like Delph did so effortlessly.
However Mendy offers penetration down the left that Delph never could. Mendy on the outside and Sane on the inside is terrifying in theory.
Nonsense. We're one a few teams with a chance but Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Juventus, PSG and probably Atletico are also in that bracket. There is very difference between all the sides. Liverpool, United, Spurs and Chelsea (if they get it right) are all not too far behind either. I think this might be the first season we don't have a guaranteed Spanish winner for awhile but we have a damn site more to worry about than just PSG.
Really? Thought he flattered to deceive. Ran really fast into empty spaces and did nothing. Didn’t create a chance in the whole game.
You must have missed all the times he was wide open waiting for the ball so he could easily put in a killer pass, or even the amount of times he was in the box for someone to pass to him to take a shot.
Silent domination then.
Well, better them than Liverpool.It’s going to be a matter of who comes closest to them this season isn’t it lads ? I’m trying to stay positive but...
True but City quite often have the fullback go inside, Walker did it loads last season and caused Havoc so if Mendy starts doing the same thing on the opposite side could be quite effective for them. Not sure Mendy would make a decent midfielder tho or go in to that space like Delph did.
A Valencia special but actually being in good positions to play the killer pass/cross
Thought they looked good without being spectacular.
On the one hand, impressive because they’re still missing one or two but on the other, Chelsea are certainly team in transition and we’re good opponents for a curtain raiser.
On the one hand, impressive because they’re still missing one or two but on the other, Chelsea are certainly team in transition and we’re good opponents for a curtain raiser.
I think he’ll be a class act for them when fully going but thought he wasn’t in the game enough today, and these points sort of highlight that.
Getting in positions to potentially play a killer pass doesn’t define a good game imo.
I’ll counter with, if Sane, Mahrez or whomever don’t give you the ball when you’re clearly in the better position is that your fault.
I do think he will be class for them but I thought he had a really good game today and should have been played in way more than he was.
Their squad is insane, it's unfair at this point.
The only weakness that I can see is that if Fernandinho goes down they have no quality replacement at this stage. Jorginho would have been perfect.
Their attacking options are obscene:
Aguero, Jesus
Sterling, Silva x2, KBD, Sane, Mahrez
The only weakness that I can see is that if Fernandinho goes down they have no quality replacement at this stage. Jorginho would have been perfect.
Their attacking options are obscene:
Aguero, Jesus
Sterling, Silva x2, KBD, Sane, Mahrez
He seemed like a tank tearing forward down the flank. He's huge, and he's quick.
This thread should have a poll at the top
Money or Pep?
Money or Pep?
The only way other teams have a chance is if Fernandinho and Gundogan both get long term injuries. It's not out of the question since Fernandinho is getting on and Gundogan is a crock.
Liverpool are definitely not getting near them, since this Liverpool team are worse than Klopps' Dortmund team who got nowhere near the points per game required to beat a Guardiola team.
At the moment it's United or Chelsea to get near City if they get in 2 more players each. Otherwise It'll be a one horse race again.