Varchester City 18/19 discussion

andyox

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Chelsea were a fairly big club before Abramovich. They qualified for Champions League in the season before he took over and had the likes of Zola, Gullit, and Desailly all playing for them in the previous decade.

Being taken over by a rich individual also isn't quite the same as being owned essentially by a country.
Not really. Historically City were obviously a bigger club than Chelsea if you look at trophy count. By the 1980s we were fairly comparable, both of us yo-yo'd up and down between Div 1 and Div 2. We then both got promoted together in 1988/89 and for the next few seasons up until the end of 1992/1993, City finished above Chelsea 3 times. I mention 1993 as a watershed moment because that's when Matthew Harding invested a considerable sum of money into Chelsea (which certainly helped the club to be able to afford the likes of Zola, Gullit, Desailly, etc. over the next few years). Chelsea's fortunes really started to improve, particularly from 1996 onwards, and they won a number of cup competitions while we tumbled down to Div 2 (by then the 3rd tier). Chelsea then got their next bump via Roman in 2003, while we got our bump a few years later in 2008.

I take your point on the difference between rich individuals and rich countries. Chelsea's two rich individuals helped them become more successful (or bigger if you prefer) than City over essentially a 15-year period in the respective clubs' histories, between the mid 1990s and the end of the 2000s.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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You don't have to, I guess? It's your right. I'm just saying it has no objective basis. I'm saying this as someone who, from a neutral perspective, could similarly dismiss the achievements of top clubs who for years have had a financial stranglehold on the game. Money has almost always guaranteed success, whether it's from the blue bloods or the arrogant uppity 3 clubs that have sprung up in the past 15 years. (w Now if you want to selectively pick and choose what clubs you dismiss, fair enough.

Again, just reads as a dismissive mechanism to me. Especially when it's applied selectively. You don't have this same energy towards Chelsea, do you?
Me not being impressed has no objective basis?

They've spent more than anyone else (by far) and appointed the most reputable manager in the world. There's no objective basis for me to be impressed that they are good off the back of that.

1.2 billion later they're a successful football team, well done, round of applause? Like I said earlier, it's like taking over City on FM, buying all the best players and expecting your mates to be impressed when you win stuff. It's just par for the course.

City have spent more than any of the other top clubs in the past have, their spending is unprecedented. They have an expensive academy they don't even use, maybe if Foden/Sancho etc could genuinely get in the team it would help people admire them for actually doing some work rather than buying whatever they need.

A defence mechanism against what? I'm just stating my honest feelings about the club, they aren't impressive because if you spend over a billion nobody is going to give you a pat on the back, and they don't have an identity, they just copied Barcelona.

Those are just facts, they have no soul because they're totally artificially created in a very short space of time. No academy graduates in the team, no sense of progression as a club over time or hard work .. just money?? They go against everything considered worthy of respect in England.


And yeah, I have similar feelings about Chelsea, a little different since they were our rivals before money, but they're still a petro dollar creation. Plastic success.

Look, we love an underdog in England. City fly against all that, they're worthy of nothing but contempt.
 

Zehner

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Don't be silly. If the Sheikh had bought, say, Sunderland it would be them going for the trophies and City would still be a nothing club. The club are irrelevant, it's all about the Sheikh and his money
Spending alone only gets you so far. City is the richest club in the EPL but they also invest their money perfectly. Every penny is spent with a purpose so that they get the most out of it. Every player suits the manager's vision of football, the infrastructure is great, so is the scouting and the academy. In contrast, you have to wonder what some other Premier league top clubs have in mind when they invest in players and/or managers. Often it doesn't look like there's a strategy behind their spendings. Instead they seem to rely on their stomach when making decisions.

And yes, if the Sheikh had chosen Sunderland, then we'd be talking about Sunderland. Doesn't change that there are some really, really good professionals in charge who are putting in brillant work.
 

andyox

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Spending alone only gets you so far. City is the richest club in the EPL but they also invest their money perfectly. Every penny is spent with a purpose so that they get the most out of it. Every player suits the manager's vision of football, the infrastructure is great, so is the scouting and the academy. In contrast, you have to wonder what some other Premier league top clubs have in mind when they invest in players and/or managers. Often it doesn't look like there's a strategy behind their spendings. Instead they seem to rely on their stomach when making decisions.

And yes, if the Sheikh had chosen Sunderland, then we'd be talking about Sunderland. Doesn't change that there are some really, really good professionals in charge who are putting in brillant work.
We have needed both (a lot of money and good management), as would any mid-lower table club wanting to become a regular title-winner/challenger. But obviously if Sunderland did find a similar investor now, they couldn't do what we did because of FFP. We've wasted plenty of money since 2008, some of it was inevitable given the rush that was created by FFP, but part of it was just plain poor signings. I think we've definitely improved that aspect over the past few years under Txiki though, and the club's structure has evolved into a much more professional outfit generally under the ex-Barca lads.

On the academy, I think you have to have a balanced view. Any PL title-challenging club would struggle to incorporate too many academy players into the first team, given the standard of player required to maintain the title challenge. City definitely have room to improve in creating that pathway from academy to first team, and we lost Sancho as a result of our failure to offer a sufficiently compelling pathway. But on the other hand, the academy has earned us somewhere close to 150m in transfer sales over the past few years so the investment in the campus is more or less already paid back.
 

robinamicrowave

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Tickets for the cup semi have gone on general sale. No chance of us selling our allocation.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I raised a wry smile when I heard the Greek winner of masterchef on the radio last night. She's a big City fan which she blames on her husband 'he's from Stockport'.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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Tickets for the cup semi have gone on general sale. No chance of us selling our allocation.
A lad i know that works at City says all staff are being given 4 free tickets & travel is being subsidized. In fairness these SF's & the Final will probably set records for lowest attendances & lowest viewing figures.
 

Adisa

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:lol:
I don't know who should be more embarrassed, City or the people wearing the scarves.
 

charlie9882

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I don't know who should be more embarrassed, City or the people wearing the scarves.
They're part of the group of 550 kids from a disadvantaged area in London who were invited to the game by Sterling and the club obviously gave them all a scarf. Hardly a shock that kids from London aren't City fans. The most embarrassing part of all this is that the BBC decided to broadcast it and put them on the spot.
 

ericking

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They're part of the group of 550 kids from a disadvantaged area in London who were invited to the game by Sterling and the club obviously gave them all a scarf. Hardly a shock that kids from London aren't City fans. The most embarrassing part of all this is that the BBC decided to broadcast it and put them on the spot.
If not fans, then why wear the scarves? Did they contain a note saying if they weren't worn their parents would be taken to nearest embassy I wonder?
 

gibers

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They're part of the group of 550 kids from a disadvantaged area in London who were invited to the game by Sterling and the club obviously gave them all a scarf. Hardly a shock that kids from London aren't City fans. The most embarrassing part of all this is that the BBC decided to broadcast it and put them on the spot.
Ridiculous by BBC tbh.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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They're part of the group of 550 kids from a disadvantaged area in London who were invited to the game by Sterling and the club obviously gave them all a scarf. Hardly a shock that kids from London aren't City fans. The most embarrassing part of all this is that the BBC decided to broadcast it and put them on the spot.
If I got given an Arsenal scarf as a 12 year old the first thing I'd do is set fire to it whilst staring the person who gave it to me directly in the eyes.
 

mdvmia

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Pep going with another odd lineup away from home in the Champions League
 

Skills

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Pep going with another odd lineup away from home in the Champions League
He can't help himself. Gundogan cost him the game at Anfield last season, yet he's done it again. Why change what has been working for your team?
 

adexkola

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He can't help himself. Gundogan cost him the game at Anfield last season, yet he's done it again. Why change what has been working for your team?
Rotation. Given the glut of fixtures, at some point they have to use their squad. Plus Pep has the league as #1 in priority.

Should have brought on Sane and De Bruyne sooner though.
 

Josh 76

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Rotation. Given the glut of fixtures, at some point they have to use their squad. Plus Pep has the league as #1 in priority.

Should have brought on Sane and De Bruyne sooner though.
Totally agree.
Pep played a team to get to second leg with a chance. He's done that by playing a weaker team and resting alot of key players.
Well done Pep. Now go and smash palace.
 

BobbyManc

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Rotation. Given the glut of fixtures, at some point they have to use their squad. Plus Pep has the league as #1 in priority.

Should have brought on Sane and De Bruyne sooner though.
No idea why he gives Sane such a hard time. He has to start over Mahrez. The difference between the two is not even close, Sane is so much better in this City side. I can count on one hand the number of times Mahrez has aggressively attacked a defender with the ball at this feet this season. The only advantage Mahrez has on anyone else is crossing but it's not much use when we have very few aerial threats in the box anyway. de Bruyne had to come on around 70th minute mark too. Delph at LB is a nightmare but I concede Pep's options were limited, in hindsight I'd have gone with Laporte and put Kompany or Stones in the middle.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Just an excuse for him failing in the CL all the time
Yeah he tried to play a bit more tactical in this game with a more defensive team. Didn't work out that well for them. Need De bruyne in the next game for sure and Bernardo silva.
 

Ban

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Pep obviously hasnt failed but his CL form since Barcelona days hasnt be the best and if they go out now it will only get worse.
 

Dumbstar

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To me this is worse than Salah's stamp. Salah was trying to get the ball over ambitiously but this was just cold and calculated. Video review later perhaps?
 

IrishRedDevil

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Can this be retrospectively reviewed?

As if the elbow wasn’t bad enough, him putting his hand on his head to push himself up off the ground was just extra cowardly.
 

adexkola

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Going out to underdogs before the SF three years in a row would not be a failure? He has problems in away knockout games, clear as day.
I’m not fixated on how many wins I’m away CL games he’s mustered (what a ridiculous metric that is by the way, as if you expect managers to win away from home at tough venues).
 

padr81

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Poor showing tonight, 2nd best for long periods, funny enough it was only when we opened up and switched to our usual game we conceded. Spurs got their tactics spot on.
 

Schneckerl

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I’m not fixated on how many wins I’m away CL games he’s mustered (what a ridiculous metric that is by the way, as if you expect managers to win away from home at tough venues).
Good job ignoring the essential part. Is this deliberate?
 

groovyalbert

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Seriously hope Spurs knock them out. They could do without the distraction for the league, and no quadruple.

I know, a pretty outrageous claim for this forum.
 

Kinsella

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City's away strip looks like the kit for an Orange Order sports day.