Thing is, when VDS left Juventus, Barthez had just completed his first- very good - season with us. We just didn't need a goalkeeper.
VDS at United Re-visited
- Thread starter Skills
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Funny thing about Edwin was he got better season after season IMO. To start off with he was steady and that's all we needed after the nightmare of Howard and Carroll taking turns to feck things up but there was nothing great about him.
From 2007/08 onwards though, he was different class. He rarely made highlight saves but it's because he hardly needed to, his positioning and decision making was that good. The biggest complement I can pay him is that I've never been at ease with a GK than I was with VDS. He was great at coming for crosses, organising the back four, kicking with his left and right foot and could make the 1 or 2 key saves he needed to in a game despite being troubled all game.
He was so good in his final season, its just a shame that his final game vs Barca I felt he could've saved Messi and Pedro's goals but its Ed so of course he's forgiven. Despite DDG achieving higher peaks for us, I'd prefer VDS in goal if I was a coach.
From 2007/08 onwards though, he was different class. He rarely made highlight saves but it's because he hardly needed to, his positioning and decision making was that good. The biggest complement I can pay him is that I've never been at ease with a GK than I was with VDS. He was great at coming for crosses, organising the back four, kicking with his left and right foot and could make the 1 or 2 key saves he needed to in a game despite being troubled all game.
He was so good in his final season, its just a shame that his final game vs Barca I felt he could've saved Messi and Pedro's goals but its Ed so of course he's forgiven. Despite DDG achieving higher peaks for us, I'd prefer VDS in goal if I was a coach.
I'd have Edwin over De Gea any day of the week
I agree about Messi's goal in the UCL 10/11 Final. It was a poor goal to let in. If De Gea did that we'd be fuming with it.
But still VDS was a great goalkeeper for us.
But still VDS was a great goalkeeper for us.
Kuszczak was awful at United. Good shot stopper but he was incredibly erratic. Whenever he came for a cross you would see Vidic sprint back onto the goalline because it was highly unlikely he'd get anywhere near it.
Van der sar was definitely the right keeper at the right time. After the cavalcade of clowns that came before him, the club needed a good solid keeper who would save what he should save and made very few mistakes.
With the defence he had in front of him, that was the ideal keeper for the team. He did the job superbly and his experience was vital.
But, there's a reason he spent a large part of his career at Fulham and on the bench at Juve. He wasn't elite level and is a clear third place when comparing him to Schmeichel and De Gea.
That's the Kuszczak I remember. If he had any kind of decision to make, there was a good chance he was going to feck it up. Thankfully with Rio/Vida in front of him, he never was put into that kind of position often.
If a high ball was landing on the edge of the 6 yard box, I was more confident Vidic would win it with his head than Kuszczak with his hands.
If any keeper should be offended by the OP it's Ben Foster being lumped in with Kuszczak.
Agreed. Foster was decent enough.
Edwin was our second best keeper of all time at worst.
De Gea still has ways to go before overtaking him.
De Gea still has ways to go before overtaking him.
He was a fecking phenomenal keeper. Excellent shot stopper, so calm, so reliable, so confident with everything and so commanding that you just didnt worry. And he went like 15 league games with conceding a goal.
The one thing De Gea is/was better at than Van der sar is stopping the ball going into the net. It's reasonably important for a keeper.
He aged like a fine wine and I can see the same thing happens with De Gea. At least I hope so.
That's why when people say We should just sell De Gea right away and get a younger keeper is a bit ridiculous. Not only De Gea is the best keeper We've had since VDS (and He was miles ahead of Romero, Lindegaard, Valdez, also his saves were comparable to Edwin's) but Goal keepers' age should not be an issue unless if He's like 38 or something. In the case of Edwin, the older He got, the safer I felt. Not mentioning the partnership He developed with our CBs over the years and the experience He brought. I would love it if De Gea could follow Edwin's footstep and stays here for years to come. Edwin is a perfect role model for De Gea.
You could say Ediwn made several mistakes but all players made mistake. It's just that for Goalkeepers it's harder to rectify their mistake once it happens, if it leads into a goal.
That's why when people say We should just sell De Gea right away and get a younger keeper is a bit ridiculous. Not only De Gea is the best keeper We've had since VDS (and He was miles ahead of Romero, Lindegaard, Valdez, also his saves were comparable to Edwin's) but Goal keepers' age should not be an issue unless if He's like 38 or something. In the case of Edwin, the older He got, the safer I felt. Not mentioning the partnership He developed with our CBs over the years and the experience He brought. I would love it if De Gea could follow Edwin's footstep and stays here for years to come. Edwin is a perfect role model for De Gea.
You could say Ediwn made several mistakes but all players made mistake. It's just that for Goalkeepers it's harder to rectify their mistake once it happens, if it leads into a goal.
Last edited:
Nonsense, you don't play 312 times for Ajax, 88 times in two seasons for Juventus, and 266 times for Manchester United, three of the giants of European football if you ain't top bracket, yeah he spent 4 years at Fulham but he was sold the dream they would compete in the market with Chelsea when he joined, but unlike Pierre van Hooijdonk who was promised similar when he joined Forest, he didn't bitch and moan about it till he got sold when those promises weren't met, he was playing top-flight football in England(the Home of great Keepers) and living in London which appeals to most foreigners(for some strange reason)so he was probably happy, the rest is great history.
Last edited:
100%. level above DDG for me. A much more complete and proactive keeper.
Bollocks. If Edwin was playing for us last season, we would be playing in the Champions league this season.
I very much doubt that. He's nearly 50.
It didn’t take long for the thread to turn into a DDG shitshow
Yep, if we had peak Van Der Sar playing instead of De Gea in the middle of his worst ever season then we would probably have been better off. That would be a very strange way of comparing goalkeepers generally though.
Incidentally, VDS similarly had his own nightmare season littered with mistakes. It occurred when he was at Juventus, saw him lose his place in that side and eventually move to (relatively) lowly Fulham. He was also older at that point than De Gea is now. A good example of how even excellent goalkeepers can go through nightmare spells and why judging goalkeepers based on their worst seasons is rather silly. Though Van Der Sar still had his own share of mistakes even during his otherwise highly successful spell here.
If he was a good shot stopper then whateve other flaw he had cant have been bad enough to make him awful. Not elite, yes but awful is an awfully strong word.
Dr Gea for instance is also lacking in the area of dealing with crosses.
Last edited:
VdS was right up there among Fergie's best value signings. He's one of our best ever keepers, which is saying something as we've had a lot of them.
If a keeper spreads panic through his defence whenever a cross comes into the box, then he's awful in my book.
Agreed that he didn't look like a world class Gk at those CL Finals. He didn't make any save that any decent Gk wouldn't have made. He was easily beaten for those goals you mentioned. He got lucky on CL Final pK with Terry slip.
Though this thread is going to review VDS weaknesses...
but instead focus more on stating his mistakes and performances in 2/3 finals. And his deputies..
I get the points, but does it matter?
Sounds too nitpicking putting the blame on keeper despite the shots (attacks before that) should have been stopped earlier by outfield players.
Also, there are other moments in those finals where he did right.
Other posters have mentioned plenty of his talents and what he bring to the team, so I'll just say his weaknesses.
Out of our 3 best EPL keepers, VDS maintain being my first choice.
but instead focus more on stating his mistakes and performances in 2/3 finals. And his deputies..
I get the points, but does it matter?
Sounds too nitpicking putting the blame on keeper despite the shots (attacks before that) should have been stopped earlier by outfield players.
Also, there are other moments in those finals where he did right.
Other posters have mentioned plenty of his talents and what he bring to the team, so I'll just say his weaknesses.
- he tends to spill/parry shots back to the field instead of sideways to the corners -- this is risky as the attacks may continue. This is earlier season though and he improves in this sense seasons onward.
- at times, he'll make the risky play for a goalkeeper eg. the flick skill he did when being pressured by a rushing striker, then Rio quickly talked with him afterwards, or even other occassion where he side-step skill tricking onrushing striker, etc.
I mean, it's entertaining and I don't blame him for making that -- we were in control and he must be bored got nothing to do at the back because the defense is so good. Fun but risky. - his left foot is more likely to be miss-kicks, and goes wayward.
- his kicking, while it's usually consistently good, at times, it's a pass direct to opposing player in our half.
Out of our 3 best EPL keepers, VDS maintain being my first choice.
VDS is up there with SAF's best signings but he definitely fecked up in those CL finals, there's no denying.
Not way was he overrated but I agree with you on 09 and 11 CL finals. Not that he was the reason why we lost by any stretch but he was very slow to react to those goals, peak Ddg would have saved them. Wouldn't blame him for the Lampard goal at all.
Unbelievable keeper and such a calm reassuring presence. Should have been signed much earlier.
Unbelievable keeper and such a calm reassuring presence. Should have been signed much earlier.
He was great without being spectacular. Precisely why Juve replaced him with Buffon. If he was in the side that finished second we wouldn't have been near there.
Oh please, with him instead of DDG we would've had several tennis scores against us since Sir Alex left.
All good points but still the 2nd best keeper we’ve had in the PL era.
De Gea has ended up being a bit of a mid table goalie. He’s cost us badly over the last couple of seasons. Good at making a number of great saves in games for a sixth or seventh place team.
More like good at carrying a bunch of no hopers to 2nd place. He was maybe mid table last season but certainly not this one.
He's been here for a long time, you can't reduce it to the last little while. He's been in the team of the year 5 times or something like that. That's despite playing in a useless side for the most part. Lest we forget he's even won a title here.
the calmest keeper I've ever seen
it had an enormous effect on the rest of the team too
immense signing and integral to our success in that period
it had an enormous effect on the rest of the team too
immense signing and integral to our success in that period
He was a hybrid of the best bits of them both. Maybe didn't have the all out attributes of either of them, but was just as competent and as important.
I find it very difficult to seperate all three.
Edwin was 40 years and 211 days old when he played his last match for United in 2011, and he's 49½ now so we may well have conceded more with him in goal instead of De Gea since SAF retired, but tennis scores is harsh, have you been on the Deuce?
Still goes underrated and I probably under appreciated him at the time. Seems like he’s rarely mentioned outside of here when talking about great keepers
Was never a red card either
Nah,let’s not indulge in nitpicking...He was a phenomenal signing...When you consider the price that we paid for him and the incredible service that he gave to the club,one can’t help but conclude that he was a smashing success.We had the most successful period in the history of the club with him between the sticks,so in my mind atleast he’s a United legend...
I was wavering when De Gea was dragging us through seasons as PotS but now I'm comfortably Pete - Edwin - David in my PL keepers. At his best De Gea has been insanely good and the players in front of him aren't fit to lace the boots of VdS's colleagues but as you say the Dutchman's consistency over his time here was just fantastic.
De Gea is the better shot stopper (and possibly the best shot stopper of all time imo) but Van der Sar was the more rounded goalkeeper for me. Making saves is a hugely important part of being a keeper, but by being stronger in other key areas like communication, leadership and command of your box, you can lower the number of shots you'll ever have to face.
De Gea is weak in quite a few areas other than shot stopping and as such, his reflexes are probably called upon more often than a Schmiechel or a Van der Sars would be behind the same defenders. A young centre back playing in front of one of those two was given a footballing education on the job while I can't imagine De Gea saying much at all during games. Certainly there isn't much in terms of intimidation or physicality from him and he's not bullying many players out of the way when claiming crosses or through balls.
I've great respect for De Gea and his ability, but I want more leadership and presence from a Manchester United keeper than he's ever offered. Schmeichel and Van der Sar still edge him for me. It's a bit like Van Nistelrooy being probably the best goal scorer I've seen in a United shirt, but a long way down my list of favourite attackers - you can be the best at the key part of your job, but to be a United great you need to give more.
De Gea is weak in quite a few areas other than shot stopping and as such, his reflexes are probably called upon more often than a Schmiechel or a Van der Sars would be behind the same defenders. A young centre back playing in front of one of those two was given a footballing education on the job while I can't imagine De Gea saying much at all during games. Certainly there isn't much in terms of intimidation or physicality from him and he's not bullying many players out of the way when claiming crosses or through balls.
I've great respect for De Gea and his ability, but I want more leadership and presence from a Manchester United keeper than he's ever offered. Schmeichel and Van der Sar still edge him for me. It's a bit like Van Nistelrooy being probably the best goal scorer I've seen in a United shirt, but a long way down my list of favourite attackers - you can be the best at the key part of your job, but to be a United great you need to give more.
If we're talking about penalty saving, De Gea is one of the worst facing penalties that I've ever seen. He seems somehow to make himself smaller and we almost might as well have no one in the goal instead and hope that it confuses the taker, or put Maguire in there - he's bound to get his huge heed to one or two