Still looks too nervous for me despite his overall relatively ok performances. Just doesn’t look like a leader and looks like he has a clanger in him. Still not convinced
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Christ.
I think the idea of using stats is absolutely ridiculous as it misses out so many other important factors that it makes them meaningless. It's like Rom didn't touch the ball for Belguims last goal but made the goal in his movement and dummy at the end.
There's lots of ways of playing including defending and that includes without the ball.
There's lots of ways of playing including defending and that includes without the ball.
Wouldnt you rather play Lindelof who has a clanger in him but is young and injury free than Smalling and Jones who are injury prone and havmt got rid of there clangers in the many yeras they played here? The ost us so many games per season it is unreal. Smalling makes up somewhat with a few goals but his passing is so bad its laughable. What kind of Pro has to take 10 seconds and open there body up for a simple pass.
I'm all for bringing those and giving Lindelof a go. Cant do much worse. He hasn't cost us a Fa Cup final either.
What Lindelof has proven so far with his world cup performances is that he is no worse than our other CBs in terms of giving solid performances interspersed with so bad ones. Nothing more, we still need a CB who's better than all of ours and is a leader so we can rotate Lindelof and others with him.
@Ekeke why so negative?
We've just seen one of our new, young players helping his country top a WC group with Germany in it and making it to the Quarter Finals. He's not looked out of place next to a defender 10 years his senior, putting in career-best performances.
This is a humble kid - from what I've seen of his online presence - that just had a pretty underwhelming first season and was pretty maligned on here in particular. So we're all aware how easily fans will turn on him if he doesn't perform next season. Hearing your and others critical opinions is nothing new. Fair to say we are all aware that Lindelof isn't a finished product.
So why not focus on the positive side and be optimistic that we might see this tournament boost his confidence and lead to great performances for United?
We've just seen one of our new, young players helping his country top a WC group with Germany in it and making it to the Quarter Finals. He's not looked out of place next to a defender 10 years his senior, putting in career-best performances.
This is a humble kid - from what I've seen of his online presence - that just had a pretty underwhelming first season and was pretty maligned on here in particular. So we're all aware how easily fans will turn on him if he doesn't perform next season. Hearing your and others critical opinions is nothing new. Fair to say we are all aware that Lindelof isn't a finished product.
So why not focus on the positive side and be optimistic that we might see this tournament boost his confidence and lead to great performances for United?
Its not negative.
Its just establishing what some people didnt accept when I first said it, which is that he's quite passive and I personally don't like that in CBs very much.
It doesnt mean he isnt good. It means he isnt my type of CB. Having said that I think he'd be fine starting next to Smalling who is more active and aggressive. Just not ideal.
If I'm following you, I agree - I've always enjoyed watching the more imposing CBs myself. That explains your appreciation of Granqvist over Lindelof as well. So if anything, we've seen the kind of partner that perhaps Victor needs to be at his best. This has been a good tournament for him and really should encourage the more doubtful fans into waiting another season or so before dismissing the kid.
Cause people on here are only happy when proven right. Player plays well, few post anything but if he had a shocker, watch how quick the vultures would start circling again....
Anyone thought the reason Granqvist can play like this because of Lindelof, and it's interesting cause irrespective of Granqvist style of play, where did it get him in his career?
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Haha listen mate, you're preaching to the choir here. I think Lindelof has enough to become a consistent starter for us in a few seasons. And that is a very good point too - the benefit of the partnership goes both ways. This Sweden backline has done well against some seriously good teams from qualifying thru the tournament itself.
but how is he affected or what stops him from being absolute dogshite in the air? That's my biggest worry for me, he can iron out some mistakes due to some nervousness and get used to the tempo of Prem but he should be at least on par with Blind in that regard and he's not, otherwise we could have easily used Blind himself...
fingers crossed but I don't believe in him, he's not a top material for me for the obvious weaknesses, also I really dislike players without guts, so let's gope he will not end up like Shaw or Mkhtaryan suffering from confidence all the fecking time..
This is the concern. However lovely your team play, with the ball on the floor and all that, in the English leagues, it's just essential that your centre backs are dominant in the air. It's why I was always dubious about Evans (plus other reasons), and all our successful defensive combos have had two guys good in the air.
I've been very disappointed today. This was our chance to replicate the summer of 94. We didn't show up at all last night. Janne Andersson deserves credit for creating a proper team after Zlatan decided to feck off.
But Victor had a fantastic tournament. Credit where credit is due. I think in given time he will compliment Bailly in a very good way. Granqvist reminds me a bit of Bailly, a hard no-nonsense centre back and Lindelöf proved do be functional i the role of cleaning up and providing a bit of brains in our back four
But Victor had a fantastic tournament. Credit where credit is due. I think in given time he will compliment Bailly in a very good way. Granqvist reminds me a bit of Bailly, a hard no-nonsense centre back and Lindelöf proved do be functional i the role of cleaning up and providing a bit of brains in our back four
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Jose spent 30M on him last season to be our ball playing centre back. Despite a shaky start, I would willing to give him a chance to prove himself this season.
He was good at the back end of last season and had a solid world cup.
He was good at the back end of last season and had a solid world cup.
First I want to thank you for taking time and give us your analyses of Victor. I don’t agree with you but your opinion and conclusions are valuable for better discussions. Let me say this. I’m by no means a expert regarding Viggo but I have followed him closely since 2015 and I have a good friend who’s part of the inner circle of Sweden’s NT. I will share some of his thoughts about how Sweden should defend.Before I start, because I know how hysterical posters can (will) be :
What I'm about to post are just some facts that show what I mean when I've said that Lindelof is a very passive defender. This is about establishing the type of player he is and comparing it to the other CBs around.
Being a passive defender doesn't automatically mean that he's not as good as a more active or aggressive CB.
But he is a passive defender and this is what I mean by that :
Lindelof has the 9th least attempted tackles of all CBs at the World Cup who played more than 2 matches (2 matches seems far too little to judge a player on). Doesnt mean a lot on its own, but...
Lindelof also made the 3rd lowest amount of interceptions as a CB who played more than 2 matches at the World Cup. At this point the only other CB on both lists is Varane of France.
He attempted the 9th least headed duels of all CBs in the world cup to have played more than 2 matches. At least he has a higher win percentage of those he tried to win compared to the other CBs who tried to win few headers.
Lindelof made the 2nd least fouls of all CBs in the world cup who played more than 2 matches. Again it doesnt mean anything on its own, in fact if he had been winning the ball a lot then making so few fouls would be a good thing. But when you look at his lack of ball winning and headed attempts its just another part of the passive pattern.
Now its important to also look at where he doesnt appear in these lists of low actions. Two of note are :
Clearances
Averaging 5.3 per game thats a lot healthier than the rest of this. So when the ball came into the box he did a fine job of trying to get something of the ball, showing that he most likely had good defensive positioning. That would be the 18th most of all CBs in the world cup who played more than 2 matches. Not amazing but definitely closer to the top than the bottom.
Shots Blocked
Averaging 0.5 per game Lindelof comes in at 37th of the 51CBs on the entire list. This time he's a bit closer to the least than the most but its a perfectly healthy number on its own.
Just to mention, Granqvist - Lindelof's CB partner for Sweden was towards the top of a lot of these fields. He's a more aggressive and active CB who had a great World Cup. This shows that there was plenty of opportunities to win the ball in these ways but Granqvist took on the responsibility to do it, while Lindelof was passive and became more active when the ball was in and around his own box.
There are some stats that arent on Whoscored. I'm not sure they are on another site and they may not be. Things like how often a player he's marking wins the ball. Something like that would be useful to help fill out the full picture. But I dont think that stat is available.
I'm not sure theres anywhere to find out how often a CB plays a player onside and they receive the ball. That would be another useful stat to round out the picture. Its something that happened a single time against England as he played Sterling onside. But how often did it happen over the course of all his matches at the world cup? I dont know.
And another useful stat would be how often a CB wins the ball as the last man before the keeper is called into action. This was something Lindelof did once against England where Sterling was running through, he came across and won the ball to cover his defense that time.
These could all be useful stats but I'm not sure if or where they would be available.
So overall Lindelof is a passive defender who tends to only come into action defensively when the ball is in and around his box. He'll block some shots, he'll make some clearances. But until that point he's less aggressive than most CBs.
Going back to the beginning of the post. Being a passive style CB isn't necessarily always a bad thing. So long as the CB is there to always make the clearances and pressure someone trying to take a shot and perhaps block it then you can get by.
However more active and aggressive CBs are likely to stop moves a lot earlier on before they become dangerous and need those box clearances or blocked shots. Personally I value this and I'm not a big fan of a CB who will only be making challenges when 1 mistake leads to a good chance on goal.
So contrary to the childish belief of more than 1 poster, I don't hate Lindelof. I guarantee I pay more attention to him than most. But he is a certain type of defender that I'm not a big fan of. Its not my preference and I do question how good that type of CB is.
Managers will often prefer a certain player over another because they have a preference of a style of player.
It doesnt mean that they hate a player because they pick someone else.
It means they value a different style of player more.
There is no hatred.
Comments that suggest hatred towards a player are a very childish defense mechanism for someone to use when they simply cant be bothered to discuss an alternate opinion because they believe themselves to have such a perfect knowledge of football that they couldnt possibly ever be wrong. Oftentimes however the alternative opinion may involve a lot more research than their own.
You think Viggo is a passive defender who mostly take action inside the box. In your opinion he’s not active enough outside the box and if I understand you correctly that makes him less valuable then a pro active CB. Your stats are probably correct but it also doesn’t tell you some important aspects of his game and the instructions his manager has given him. Regarding the Swedish set up you probably understands why Granqvist is more “active” and why Viggo tries to slows down the opponent instead taking instant actions.
As far as I know from my friend the Swedish NT had before the WC made some analysis and observations regarding when and why they concede goals. The instructions to the players was how to avoid dangerous situations and when to make tackles and try to do interceptions. The interesting part of this is that Granqvist and Lindelöf had individual specific instructions and different approach of how to defend. For example. Aerial balls and outside the penalty area tackles was Granqvist priority with Viggo as a back up behind him. The reason for this is simple. Granqvist is stronger and better in the air whereas Viggo is better to read the game and has better acceleration, so the instructions was to maximize both players strengths in different situations. If you remeber the last minute against Germany one Swedish player made a unnecessary tackle and gave away a late free kick just outside the penalty area, you can bet nobody inside the Swedish camp was impressed. This incident ended with a goal and could easily cost Sweden much more then three points. Follow Sebastian Larssons reactions and what he screams to Durmaz and maybe you understand a little bit of Sweden’s game plan.
Another instrumental instruction is to reduce tackles inside the penalty area to a minimum, for obvious reasons. Viggo did his part to almost perfection. Sweden understood that they had to give up some space and situations and both centerbacks was as good as you can get under those circumstances. Granqvist grabbed the headlines but without Lindelöfs contributions the outcome could have been different.
So when you downplay Lindelöf you don’t take into consideration his specific instructions, something he executed to almost perfection. Defending is a partnership and a teams game. Rio and Vidic had different roles and both where world class together, but with another partner the results could have been different. All in all Sweden made a very good WC and their defense was one of the best in the tournament.
Victor isn’t a Vidic type of player. He’s more similar to Ricardo Carvalho, another defender who played with Mourinho. It’s ok to criticize and have different preferences but to downplay a guy who follows his instructions perfectly isn’t fair and doesn’t reflect his contribution to the results.
Last thing. If you paid attention to the last 20-30 minutes of the game against England you probably noticed when Viggo took command and started to be pro active both when he defended and in the build up. Those last 30 minutes was his best period since Sweden played against France in June 2017. His fear was gone, he stopped being cautious and his swagger was back. If he can replicate that attitude with United then he has a good chance to succeed.
We should ask ppl like Rio on lindelof ability and performance..
Not keen, but he needs a proper chance, between him, Bailly, Smalling, Jones, and Rojo we're surely ok at CB for now, but it seems Jose sees this position as a priority.
Nobody, and that includes me (and I'm not a Utd fan, nor anti Sweden, even though I do support Finland at ice hockey, even though I have no ancestry from there), has an agenda against Lindelof IMHO, we just think that if he was bought as a developmental player then Tuanzebe and TFM should have been given the same chances to develop, and there was no way Lindelof should have been picked at RB above either (just Tuanzebe since TFM was on loan), especially not in the Derby game where there was no excuse not to play Axel. I don't consider Lindelof to have been bought as a developmental player though, given his nationality, national team experience and cost, and he should really have established himself as first choice, at least rotationally, by the end of last season, and in any case, Jose should have sold at least Darmian, Blind and one other.
Tuanzebe, TFM and even Mitchell deserve the same opportunities next season that Dalot is given, even though, unlike Lindelof, I do consider the Portuguese a developmental signing. He is only 19, has played less than 10 first team games for his club and doesn't start for Portugal.
Tuanzebe, TFM and even Mitchell deserve the same opportunities next season that Dalot is given, even though, unlike Lindelof, I do consider the Portuguese a developmental signing. He is only 19, has played less than 10 first team games for his club and doesn't start for Portugal.
He held the same level as the best defenders in the world, and was one of the best defenders in the whole tournament. Of course he's world class.
So he then must be the best defender at United, who isn’t trusted to be a nailed on starter by a manager who knows how to organise a great defensive set up?
He’s not even the third best central defender at United and our defenders are crap according to a lot of our fans. His lack of pace and heading ability are always going to be an issue for him. Also he’s not showing any great leadership skills thus far, but that might come as he matured as a player...
How many games with him did you watch this world cup?
Idiots getting giddy about a few world cup games. Dear dear.
He is not the most physical and aggressive CB, that’s true. I do think he needed to adjust to the pace and strength of the league but he clearly has quality. What is the point of writing him off after one season?
People are far more forgiving of Bailly even though he keeps getting injured and has been making mistakes since returning this past season. He has been here for 2 years.
I will be judging Lindelof way more harshly next season.
People are far more forgiving of Bailly even though he keeps getting injured and has been making mistakes since returning this past season. He has been here for 2 years.
I will be judging Lindelof way more harshly next season.
Smalling hasn't been injury prone for 3-4 seasons now and is much more consistent than people give him credit for. Of course I'd rather play him.
So you're saying Madrid or Barcelona might come in to sign him for £85 million?
You are either trolling or a 13 year old superfan. Aside from the fact he had a whole season at United where we can see what he is about, a wise man would never give their full rating of a player based on a tournament performance. That said, what did he do that was world class? In the 4 games, he averaged LESS THAN ONE tackle, interception, foul (I like my defenders a bit dirty) and blocks per game. Is he just a beanpole placed in defence? super passive for a world class defender.
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