[12OunceEpilogue]

I did see the game. I saw Lindelof celebrate when he cut out a routine cross. I saw him go for headers and not win some of them. The ones he did win I saw him not be able to direct and often go to the other team. I saw him being outmuscled and out-thought by an attacker half his size for the goal. I saw him not being able to step into midfield and initiate attacks. What game did you see?

The second goal we're defending a corner zonally, which for some reason means every fecker is nearer the front post (still getting beat by Bednarek who flicks on) while Lindelof is our only defender further back towards the far post. He has Obafemi with him, who as you say is short and so Lindelof could be hoping to beat him over his head if the ball comes straight in from the corner, he also has Smallbone and Bertrand to worry about to his left coming in behind him. He looks silly for this goal and is beaten physically, I won't deny it, but if he gets goalside as everyone is saying he should I wonder if he stills gets caned if the ball squirts out to the far post and someone toe-pokes it home? When a ball is flicked on, which Maguire himself in his post-match said was completely unacceptable, Lindelof has several worries to deal with and he must react very quickly, less than ideal for any defender I hope you would agree.

Elsewhere I saw him do some fine defending, he was congratulated by De Gea a coupe of times for if you like 'routine' stuff, if you'd rather our players didn't cajole each other throughout the game as footballers have done throughout history that's fine if a bit odd to me. WhoScored have Lindelof as winning 4 aerial duals, more than anyone on the pitch, and losing one which backs up my assertion it was a good display from him yesterday. I thought going forward he was ok, he stepped up now and again into the right channel and played the ball forwards a few times, it was nothing special but ok. I wonder if you've been into the Maguire thread to cane him about marking nobody whatsoever at the corner, perhaps not as he did step into midfield a few more times, though why it is particularly important centre backs step up in this game when we're 2-1 to the good, if anything we're trying to get them on the break as they're enjoying possession in the second half and in possession it is often Shaw who slots into midfield to provide the extra man as Pogba and Bruno take control isn't clear.

By the way if you have reservations about Lindelof's game and doubt he can be part of a first choice title-winning XI that's fine, I have the same feelings myself. But I don't see, other than some criticisms of him at the very end, where you have got the idea this game was a case study in how ill-suited Lindelof is to a team with our aspirations.

 

[mancan92]

It's nothing to do with getting outmuscled or not. The mistakes had already been made before that. When the ball is coming towards them, both fighting each other, it's sheer luck as to which of them gets their boot on it first in the split second they have to react. It's not about being stronger and every CB on the planet concedes goals like that at some point.

Yes the mistakes happened before but he also made a mistake. He takes blame aswell as de gea, Maguire and Matic.

 

[Dante]

He was brilliant for 95 and a half minutes.

I've criticised Lindelof whenever I've felt he deserves it (which is quite a lot). But I thought yesterday was a really good, aggressive performance where he dispelled a lot of the perceptions I had about him.

He obviously didn't cover himself in glory at the end. But I'm hesitant to throw the baby out with the bath water. If Lindelof performs that way every week, it'll be more than good enough.

 

[Halftrack]

Anyone claiming Lindelöf was marking a man and not a zone is either clueless or has an agenda. We mark zonally on corners, and Lindelöf is holding his zone. Right before the corner is struck, Obafemi moves inside and to Lindelöf. Ideally, there would have been someone else there to take over the zonal marking so that Lindelöf could focus on staying goalside of Obafemi, but there isn't, so Lindelöf seemingly decides to keep holding that zone. With of benefit of hindsight, it's easy to say he should have acted differently, but right then and there, there's no obvious right or wrong choice. Yes, the conventional wisdom is to always get goalside, but when getting goalside means leaving an entire area of the box completely undefended, it's not so clear cut anymore.

 

[lsd]

I don't see how zonal marking leads to five players in one zone and one player in his zone with three opponents .

If that is how we do zonal marking we need to forget about it

 

[DaMan]

He did well yesterday. No need to blame anyone.
When a corner is that good, it will have a good chance of finding the net.

 

[Halftrack]

I don't see how zonal marking leads to five players in one zone and one player in his zone with three opponents .

If that is how we do zonal marking we need to forget about it

AWB and Maguire for some reason decides to join the pile at the front post, while Fred moves towards the edge of the box. That's why Lindelöf ends up having to keep an eye on three players. But since Obafemi ran up to Lindelöf, this now means that Lindelöf is marking him, and thus all his attention should be on getting goalside, when the reality is that Lindelöf still has the presence to realise that he'd be leaving the entire area around the back post uncovered (admittedly an assumption, but I feel it's a fair one).

Had he done what certain posters says he should have done and gotten goalside of Obafemi, only for the ball to get past the front post pile-up, or get flicked high towards the back post, with Bertrand or Smallbone getting to it and slotting it away (or even get a good shot/header off without scoring) every single poster lambasting him for costing us would still be in here lambasting him for costing us (or almost costing us).

 

[Litch]

Shame as I thought he played well last night but whilst it's not his fault as such, at this level you need players to at times have big moments. Victor is steady and relatively safe. No more, no less. Harry is suppose to have the ex factor but he's not that either. Not sure how you pay 80m for a CB and then have to spend another 50m to get the most out of him....

 

[Machine Elements]

This guy was "our best defender" according to some posters last year after supposedly "a good season" but once we got Maguire he's became a useless shit again. Even if he's not good enough, he's getting the blame for others' mistakes too now. Talk about going overboard.

He was never our best defender (and good enough to be a first choice btw) and now isn't that bad as people make him out to be. Reality is our both CBs are not good enough. I guess he's the new scapegoat after Smalling, Blind, Rojo gone/Bailly, Jones not playing anymore etc.

 

[RUCK4444]

Shame as I thought he played well last night but whilst it's not his fault as such, at this level you need players to at times have big moments. Victor is steady and relatively safe. No more, no less. Harry is suppose to have the ex factor but he's not that either. Not sure how you pay 80m for a CB and then have to spend another 50m to get the most out of him....

That’s exactly how it is quite often though, like Bruno bringing the best out of the midfield and forwards around him.

We had the same players prior to Bruno but sometimes you need to supplement a signing with other players to maximise your return on them, and conversely a signing can be the key to make your existing player/s click.

It’s part of building a functional team. Lindelof isn’t that bad but imo we need to sign a quick aggressive CB like Upamecano or somebody similar.
The perfect pairing for him would be Varane so the closer we can get to him the better basically (imo.)

 

[tomaldinho1]

This guy was "our best defender" according to some posters last year after supposedly "a good season" but once we got Maguire he's became a useless shit again. Even if he's not good enough, he's getting the blame for others' mistakes too now. Talk about going overboard.

He was never our best defender (and good enough to be a first choice btw) and now isn't that bad as people make him out to be. Reality is our both CBs are not good enough. I guess he's the new scapegoat after Smalling, Blind, Rojo gone/Bailly, Jones not playing anymore etc.

This is the reality - they are both decent but far from being elite level. So many posters blaming Lindelof for the second goal yesterday just highlights how agendas take over rational criticism.

 

[Knux]

He was our best defender yesterday and had a good season (again). And he is actually one of very few defenders we would make a decent profit from if he was sold.

The problem is that we dont have any other CBs in the team who can come in and do the same job. And please dont say Bailly because he’s too injuryprone to start 2 times every week.
So yes, we probably need one more CB this summer.

The Maguire / Lindelöf partnership Will continue to flourish the more gametime they play.

 

[Devil77]

Seems like some posters on here expect us to keep a clean sheet every game. When we don’t, it’s always because our defenders are shite.

I remember our two world class CB’s Vidic and Rio getting bullied by the likes of Torres and Bellamy. You score as a team and defend as a team.

 

[Revan]

More than 1 person can be responsible for a goal infact normally its more than one error.

Firstly we are setup terribly, secondly matic loses the header, thirdly de gea is a statue, for maguire for some reason leaves his zone and finally linderlof is weak at the back post.

They are all to blame. Linderlof included.

Yep, no one looks good.

I still have to understand what AWB and Maguire are doing. And I don't buy this zonal marking bullshit. Sure, maybe there is some zonal marking going on, but why they are both in the same zone, while leaving a very large space behind them where no zonal marking is going on. Maguire even pushes AWB for some reasons.

 

[A-man]

.

Yep, no one looks good.

I still have to understand what AWB and Maguire are doing. And I don't buy this zonal marking bullshit. Sure, maybe there is some zonal marking going on, but why they are both in the same zone, while leaving a very large space behind them where no zonal marking is going on. Maguire even pushes AWB for some reasons.

I think Maguire’s instinct took over and that is to head the ball at any price. He pushed AWB and probably even used him to push himself off in the air.

 

[edcunited1878]

Anyone claiming Lindelöf was marking a man and not a zone is either clueless or has an agenda. We mark zonally on corners, and Lindelöf is holding his zone. Right before the corner is struck, Obafemi moves inside and to Lindelöf. Ideally, there would have been someone else there to take over the zonal marking so that Lindelöf could focus on staying goalside of Obafemi, but there isn't, so Lindelöf seemingly decides to keep holding that zone. With of benefit of hindsight, it's easy to say he should have acted differently, but right then and there, there's no obvious right or wrong choice. Yes, the conventional wisdom is to always get goalside, but when getting goalside means leaving an entire area of the box completely undefended, it's not so clear cut anymore.

And that's before the ball is flicked on. It was a great ball in, and combined with the only time really United lost out on a first ball that was threatening.

Victor played really well last night and didn't deserve to be among the scrappiness of that goal, but that shit happens. As I always say, the ball is round, so shit happens.

 

[mu4c_20le]

This guy was "our best defender" according to some posters last year after supposedly "a good season" but once we got Maguire he's became a useless shit again. Even if he's not good enough, he's getting the blame for others' mistakes too now. Talk about going overboard.

He was never our best defender (and good enough to be a first choice btw) and now isn't that bad as people make him out to be. Reality is our both CBs are not good enough. I guess he's the new scapegoat after Smalling, Blind, Rojo gone/Bailly, Jones not playing anymore etc.

He was our best defender on the basis of making fewer glaring mistakes than Smalling. Fact is he always had a shaky moment in him.

 

[simplyared]

Victor has improved a lot make no mistake. That said he's still far too limited. Liverpool are offloading Lovren. If I'm honest I prefer him to Victor. Not saying we should go for him. Just putting things into perspective!

 

[el3mel]

Guy has been our best defender since the restart whatever those who slaughters him often like it or not.

 

[kiristao]

Guy has been our best defender since the restart whatever those who slaughters him often like it or not.

I agree. Inspite of this performance, I am sure the haters will come up with excuse to say Maquire was the better player.

 

[Knux]

Guy has been our best defender since the restart whatever those who slaughters him often like it or not.

Agreed. No way he’s getting replaced for next season. Ole rates him too, and rightly so.

Top player!

 

[3KDré]

Was our best defender today.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Ropey first half, compounded with the penalty incident... Much better second half where he was very good and alert.

 

[Mainoldo]

My guy. He just needs to eat some hard food!

 

[simmee]

Guy has been our best defender since the restart whatever those who slaughters him often like it or not.

He has been really good! Hope he can keep this form going.

 

[Rossa]

Decent today but deary me he is slow. I think Maguire would beat him quite easily in a foot race. CP created a couple of chances where they simply ran in behind him when he had a ten yard head start - as with Zaha’s chance. He badly lost to Ayew as well and has made Jimenez look like Usain Bolt in his prime.

Attackers try more against him than they would a more athletic defender. They know they will most likely beat him in a foot race or out muscle him. He’s too average at too many things with no stand out qualities to redeem him.

 

[Albin Johansson]

If I was his PR manager I'd force him to shave his head. It goes with the "iceman" thing that was established in his Benfica days and the caf would surely start appreciating these kind of performances. He was solid af again today.

 

[charlenefan]

See usually I rate him when he gets slaughtered on here but I thought he was dodgy today and should have conceded a pen

 

[11101]

Good again, read the game well and always looking for a quick pass. Time for some to wake up to the fact our other CB has been the weak link since the restart.

 

[roonster09]

He had good game, did well when Palace countered. If we nitpick obviously we can point out few silly mistakes but that would just be stretching it to blame him.

Love his aggression in this game, I think it was against Ayew.

 

[Andycoleno9]

feck, i came to defend him as usual and i see that my services are not needed.
Oh well, then i will just add that he was our best defender today. Class.

 

[Kag]

Bizarre. He was actually very good against Southampton and undeserving of the stick but much worse today. It really goes to show how results determine perception.

He should have conceded a penalty, was turned by Zaha a fair few times and should really be getting across to get a block in for that De Gea foot save towards the end of the game.

His general defending was significantly better on Monday.

 

[Mickson]

Was our best defender today.

Whaaat? I thought Maguire was fantastic today. Victor not so much, I thought he was better against Soton.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Whaaat? I thought Maguire was fantastic today. Victor not so much, I thought he was better against Soton.

Nah, Lindelof was holding our defence today. Maguire was good too

 

[Isotope]

Have to admit, i'm getting fond of this guy. Great in anticipating, and he's getting stuck in also.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Had a few shaky moments but also man marked very tightly and held up the defense. Didn't think there was much between him and Maguire.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Bizarre. He was actually very good against Southampton and undeserving of the stick but much worse today. It really goes to show how results determine perception.

He should have conceded a penalty, was turned by Zaha a fair few times and should really be getting across to get a block in for that De Gea foot save towards the end of the game.

His general defending was significantly better on Monday.

I agree with this.

Although it’s harsh to criticise him for the De Gea foot save, which was down to an absolutely horrific mistake by Maguire (who otherwise played well) which was so bad that it would catch anyone by surprise.

 

[golden_blunder]

I must have been watching a different match

 

[Red00012]

Guy has been our best defender since the restart whatever those who slaughters him often like it or not.

Should have had a penalty against him in the 1st half and gave a ball straight to Ayew who had a one v one with De gea but fecked it up but ok......

 

[Red00012]

I must have been watching a different match

+1