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2019-20 Performances


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5.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
46
Clean sheets
19
Goals
1
Assists
1
Yellow cards
6

mu4c_20le

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You are right there. Something is wrong. When you have defender whos main idea is playmaking then you have situation when other defender must cover whole defence.
And btw, Lindelof would be perfect fit for Barca or Real. Can we say that for Maguire?
Who says that? I've never heard anyone say Lindelof would be a perfect fit for Barca or Real, only thing close is Barca were apparently interested at one time, maybe he was on a shortlist or something, like Blind was. Maguire's long passing seems underrated here but that is one of the reasons why he's usually the playmaker. If both defenders were priced at 35M which was what Lindelof went for, who do you think teams will pick?
 

Ekeke

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Barcelona didnt just want Braithwaite, they signed him. They also signed Vermaelen. They signed Song. Real Madrid took Faubert from West Ham

Big clubs make disaster signings sometimes, so I dont think their interest - real or faked by an agent, really tells you how good a player is
 

Revan

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You are right there. Something is wrong. When you have defender whos main idea is playmaking then you have situation when other defender must cover whole defence.
And btw, Lindelof would be perfect fit for Barca or Real. Can we say that for Maguire?
I think so.
 

Ekeke

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Yes he did.. so did many others, we got him and he has made our defense much better. Remember when Smalling and Victor played together?
You mean before we invested £120 million on a CB and RB?

We've seen what Lindelof was like with those reinforcements. We havent seen what Smalling would be like
 

ghagua

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It makes even less sense when you consider that VvD tackles less that Lindelof.
Rio barely had to make tackles because his positioning to win balls back was so good. Players don't have to tackle every time to win the ball back.
 

ghagua

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He slows the opponent down is one thing. He rarely commit unnecessary fouls or penalties which is a nice upgrade from the CBs before him. That’s two of the things he does good.
You're absolutely right about that. He stands out of the way of play and lets opposition players take a clean shot at goal most of the time.
 

ghagua

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Thats why Barca wanted Lindelof last summer and not Maguire
They should come in again this summer if they want him. A 50 million bid should do it. In all fairness, I think he would do well in La Liga.
 

Revan

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Me too, better than here at least. And £30 million should do it
Or you can just watch some other team if you hate him so much. Cause he is gonna be part of United for some time.

:)
 

BenitoSTARR

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Anyone who thinks a defender is bad for jockeying rather than diving in doesn’t understand how to defend. Like at all.
 

Adam-Utd

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Anyone who thinks a defender is bad for jockeying rather than diving in doesn’t understand how to defend. Like at all.
Not quite as cut and dry is it?

If you jockey all the way back to your penalty area and then can't put a foot in at risk of them getting a penalty, so they shoot or setup a goal = bad

There needs to be a fine balance. Sometimes he is far too passive and needs to be more commanding. I'd rather us give a foul away on the half way line by being too aggressive than letting them do what they want until they get close to the goal.

Against Leicester he had the right mix of aggression and control, but he needs to find that more often.
 

A-man

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Rio barely had to make tackles because his positioning to win balls back was so good. Players don't have to tackle every time to win the ball back.
That’s was the point, there are more ways to defend than dive in to a tackle. In the end it is the result that counts, not the amount of tackles, and we got one of the best defensive results in the most competitive leagues and at the second half it also looked good forward.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Not quite as cut and dry is it?

If you jockey all the way back to your penalty area and then can't put a foot in at risk of them getting a penalty, so they shoot or setup a goal = bad

There needs to be a fine balance. Sometimes he is far too passive and needs to be more commanding. I'd rather us give a foul away on the half way line by being too aggressive than letting them do what they want until they get close to the goal.

Against Leicester he had the right mix of aggression and control, but he needs to find that more often.
The most effective defending we’ve done all season has been based around containing the threat to allow bodies back. Once we are set in our shape we have some of the lowest shots conceded stats in the league. Diving in is never the best solution it’s an old cliche but the best defenders don’t dive in. It’s ok for AWB but if your central defenders do it you end up with sendings off, being turned and a nervy back line.

If Lindelof were constantly dropping back to the penalty area and conceding shots I’d agree but it’s not the case and so maybe you’ve seen him do it once and extrapolated unfairly.

He does occasionally commit those fouls but more often he delays the counter and forces a player to pass backwards. I know which I’d prefer and also I feel we’re he to foul and receive a yellow card he’d be labelled clueless or reckless right away.

However you want to spin it Lindelof is a big part of our defensive solidarity. It makes me laugh that posters have criticised De Gea, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw and AWB this season individually saying they aren’t good enough when as a unit they work so well together. Unless we feel 2nd best defence in the league (after their first full season together) isn’t good enough?

It really saddens me to see how much people are willing to criticise without much of an informed opinion on defensive coaching.
 

fps

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Lindelof has improved hugely this year, I was surprised by his pace such as against Vardy and in some other one on ones and impressed by his improved communication and increasing confidence bringing the ball out of defence. His heading is getting better too despite the odd alarming error which needs ironing out. I feel he has a determination to become outstanding and that will stand him in good stead.
 
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Cassidy

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The most effective defending we’ve done all season has been based around containing the threat to allow bodies back. Once we are set in our shape we have some of the lowest shots conceded stats in the league. Diving in is never the best solution it’s an old cliche but the best defenders don’t dive in. It’s ok for AWB but if your central defenders do it you end up with sendings off, being turned and a nervy back line.

If Lindelof were constantly dropping back to the penalty area and conceding shots I’d agree but it’s not the case and so maybe you’ve seen him do it once and extrapolated unfairly.

He does occasionally commit those fouls but more often he delays the counter and forces a player to pass backwards. I know which I’d prefer and also I feel we’re he to foul and receive a yellow card he’d be labelled clueless or reckless right away.

However you want to spin it Lindelof is a big part of our defensive solidarity. It makes me laugh that posters have criticised De Gea, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw and AWB this season individually saying they aren’t good enough when as a unit they work so well together. Unless we feel 2nd best defence in the league (after their first full season together) isn’t good enough?

It really saddens me to see how much people are willing to criticise without much of an informed opinion on defensive coaching.
Whilst in general I agree stats can be missleading. We also had one of the best defences in the league in terms of goals conceded under LVG.

Earlier in the season we were very cautious as a team and thus did not score enough goals.Later on in the season we went to a more attacking setup instead of the counter and contain and some more defensive frailties showed up. Still good defensively though

Im expecting even more progression next season to a more aggresive attacking side and I feel our defence and also ability on the ball of the fullbacks will need improvement. We will also be facing more quality in attack in the UCL

Lindelof is a good defender though I like the way he defends, he just needs to be a bit more aggresive when marking opponents especially on crosses
 

Santoryo

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Or you can just watch some other team if you hate him so much. Cause he is gonna be part of United for some time.

:)
Nice.

He is the same guy who replied to another poster like that because he didn't like the way said poster was criticizing his favorite players. So much hypocrisy :lol:

This is why one should avoid saying and writing unnecessary things, they'll come back to bite.
 

Ekeke

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Or you can just watch some other team if you hate him so much. Cause he is gonna be part of United for some time.

:)
I didnt say we should sell him. I agreed with a poster suggesting he's more suited to la liga and I think hes worth less than was suggested. I hope he sticks around as a squad player
 

A-man

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The most effective defending we’ve done all season has been based around containing the threat to allow bodies back. Once we are set in our shape we have some of the lowest shots conceded stats in the league. Diving in is never the best solution it’s an old cliche but the best defenders don’t dive in. It’s ok for AWB but if your central defenders do it you end up with sendings off, being turned and a nervy back line.

If Lindelof were constantly dropping back to the penalty area and conceding shots I’d agree but it’s not the case and so maybe you’ve seen him do it once and extrapolated unfairly.

He does occasionally commit those fouls but more often he delays the counter and forces a player to pass backwards. I know which I’d prefer and also I feel we’re he to foul and receive a yellow card he’d be labelled clueless or reckless right away.

However you want to spin it Lindelof is a big part of our defensive solidarity. It makes me laugh that posters have criticised De Gea, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw and AWB this season individually saying they aren’t good enough when as a unit they work so well together. Unless we feel 2nd best defence in the league (after their first full season together) isn’t good enough?

It really saddens me to see how much people are willing to criticise without much of an informed opinion on defensive coaching.
Good post!
One of Lindelof’s strengths is to stay close to the attacker and follow and stall him until the rest of the defence is in place. Some people call that babysitting etc but it is working as a unit. He is often the last man. Of course there are situation where he should try to win back the ball early to keep press, and he does that sometimes and could be better at it.
The clean shots people talk about, if we look at the shots on goal there are not that many coming from his side. Because he is good at reading the game and following the attacker and the situation where the attacker can shoot is often avoided. Of the clean shots he allows, it looks like he is covering one side of the goal and leaving the other for DDG who has clear view. I can’t remember many goals in this season coming from Lindelof allowing a clean shot, unless it was a howler from DDG. I can’t even remember one such goal, but maybe there are one or two. It’s not a big problem.

Cooperating and working as a unit is not running from responsibility. And this is what has worked very well this season.
 

Ekeke

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The most effective defending we’ve done all season has been based around containing the threat to allow bodies back. Once we are set in our shape we have some of the lowest shots conceded stats in the league. Diving in is never the best solution it’s an old cliche but the best defenders don’t dive in. It’s ok for AWB but if your central defenders do it you end up with sendings off, being turned and a nervy back line.

If Lindelof were constantly dropping back to the penalty area and conceding shots I’d agree but it’s not the case and so maybe you’ve seen him do it once and extrapolated unfairly.

He does occasionally commit those fouls but more often he delays the counter and forces a player to pass backwards. I know which I’d prefer and also I feel we’re he to foul and receive a yellow card he’d be labelled clueless or reckless right away.

However you want to spin it Lindelof is a big part of our defensive solidarity. It makes me laugh that posters have criticised De Gea, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw and AWB this season individually saying they aren’t good enough when as a unit they work so well together. Unless we feel 2nd best defence in the league (after their first full season together) isn’t good enough?

It really saddens me to see how much people are willing to criticise without much of an informed opinion on defensive coaching.
It wasnt considered good enough when it was Smalling and Jones when we had a better record, so why would the record alone be a reason not to think we can improve on it?

You'd think after spending £193 million on your back four it wouldnt have many weakenesses and that it would surely be the best in the league. And thats just the starters, not including Bailly and Dalot
 

TwoSheds

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Good post!
One of Lindelof’s strengths is to stay close to the attacker and follow and stall him until the rest of the defence is in place. Some people call that babysitting etc but it is working as a unit. He is often the last man. Of course there are situation where he should try to win back the ball early to keep press, and he does that sometimes and could be better at it.
The clean shots people talk about, if we look at the shots on goal there are not that many coming from his side. Because he is good at reading the game and following the attacker and the situation where the attacker can shoot is often avoided. Of the clean shots he allows, it looks like he is covering one side of the goal and leaving the other for DDG who has clear view. I can’t remember many goals in this season coming from Lindelof allowing a clean shot, unless it was a howler from DDG. I can’t even remember one such goal, but maybe there are one or two. It’s not a big problem.

Cooperating and working as a unit is not running from responsibility. And this is what has worked very well this season.
The problem isn't him following the man, it's the fact that he's often too far away from his man to actually block anything or tackle him. I just think he needs to mix it up more, and play aggressively sometimes, not necessarily all the time. If nothing else it should help him mentally to get up for the game if he can bulldoze through an opposition forward and nick the ball off him. Rio was a master of "babysitting" the opponent a lot of the time but, particularly in big games, he wasn't afraid to be a bit more aggressive and I think that got him going and switched him on as much as anything. I appreciate he was also just a better player than Lindelof but i still think stylistically they could be quite similar if Lindelof took more responsibility on.
 

A-man

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The problem isn't him following the man, it's the fact that he's often too far away from his man to actually block anything or tackle him. I just think he needs to mix it up more, and play aggressively sometimes, not necessarily all the time. If nothing else it should help him mentally to get up for the game if he can bulldoze through an opposition forward and nick the ball off him. Rio was a master of "babysitting" the opponent a lot of the time but, particularly in big games, he wasn't afraid to be a bit more aggressive and I think that got him going and switched him on as much as anything. I appreciate he was also just a better player than Lindelof but i still think stylistically they could be quite similar if Lindelof took more responsibility on.
I agree that he must improve on his more aggressive side. We have seen it in some matches, especially late when chasing a goal, so it is in there but he seems to prefer playing less aggressive. The optimal is defenders who can switch between calm and aggressive , like Rio could or VvD is also good at that. If Lindelof could do that, it would be a great improvement.
 

BenitoSTARR

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It wasnt considered good enough when it was Smalling and Jones when we had a better record, so why would the record alone be a reason not to think we can improve on it?

You'd think after spending £193 million on your back four it wouldnt have many weakenesses and that it would surely be the best in the league. And thats just the starters, not including Bailly and Dalot
Wasn’t it? Also not sure why you’d bring up a partnership that isn’t at all like Maguire and Lindelöf under a different manager in a different system?

Jones has been injury prone and therefore a concern and Smalling’s ability on the ball wasn’t good enough for what we wanted to do long term. Not the same situation here.

That would make sense if you completely ignore the fact other teams in the league have been spending more on their back 4 over the years too. This isn’t a very good argument to counter anything I said or highlighted it’s irrelevant, generic and shows a lack of appreciation of context e.g. other teams also spend money..
 

Ekeke

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Wasn’t it? Also not sure why you’d bring up a partnership that isn’t at all like Maguire and Lindelöf under a different manager in a different system?

Jones has been injury prone and therefore a concern and Smalling’s ability on the ball wasn’t good enough for what we wanted to do long term. Not the same situation here.

That would make sense if you completely ignore the fact other teams in the league have been spending more on their back 4 over the years too. This isn’t a very good argument to counter anything I said or highlighted it’s irrelevant, generic and shows a lack of appreciation of context e.g. other teams also spend money..
And Lindelof's defending isnt good enough long term.

Also we have the 3rd best record, not 2nd. 2nd was Smalling and Jones, 3rd this season is Maguire and Lindelof - even though they're the only team with a player like AWB at right back.

Which other team's starting back 4 in the league cost £190 million+?

City's defense for the majority of the season was Walker, Otamendi, Fernandinho and Mendy. Thats £174 million and one of them was bought as a DM and was being played out of position. It was their weakness and yet conceded 1 less goal than we did.
 

arthurka

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You mean before we invested £120 million on a CB and RB?

We've seen what Lindelof was like with those reinforcements. We havent seen what Smalling would be like
You don't have to sell me that Lindelöf isn't really a top defender. Smalling is the better defender in my books.
 

Revan

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I didnt say we should sell him. I agreed with a poster suggesting he's more suited to la liga and I think hes worth less than was suggested. I hope he sticks around as a squad player
I don’t think that anyone suggested to also sell AWB, just that it was painful to watch him. And then you had the smart post to watch some other club.
 

Ekeke

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I don’t think that anyone suggested to also sell AWB, just that it was painful to watch him. And then you had the smart post to watch some other club.
Yes because if you complain that its painful to watch a player, clearly you need a solution. Its not painful to watch Lindelof or any other United player for me. Why would it be? That would be strange.

I'd prefer Lindelof was on the bench, but I'm not writhing around in pain.
 

bond19821982

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He is a good defender. Its just that Maguire is probably not his best partner.

And he would be bloody brilliant in a back 3. If I remember correctly he used to take FKs for Benfica , right?
 

yan man utd

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First thing to say is it’s not entirely about Lindelofs qualities, but whether he is the right foil for Maguire for us to dominate games. We have seen ourselves hemmed in our own half for longer than we should too often.

That aside when I look back at players like Vidic, Ferdinand, Stam, Johnsen, and actually also Bruce as well as Smalling, they are all aggressive defenders who’s inclination is to squeeze the opposition’s midfield and actually get in front of the strikers when they can. Obviously the ideal combo is you have one CB who steps forward and the other who covers. Neither Lindelof or Maguire seem aggressive enough or perhaps lack the urgency to halt the attack as early as possible, subsequently we then get pressed and look nervous around our penalty area. We have seen this lead to Pogba losing possession because he is outnumbered/ receiving the ball where he doesn’t want to.
Let’s face it if you’re a striker who would you rather face? Lindelof doesn’t intimidate you, even if he is decent all round footballer.

I feel we need a DM or CM similar to Herrera or Neves as well as a more combative CB - dare I say it look at Kompany in his prime and how city have not managed to replace him. Huge difference...
 

Andycoleno9

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He is a good defender. Its just that Maguire is probably not his best partner.

And he would be bloody brilliant in a back 3. If I remember correctly he used to take FKs for Benfica , right?
We should have go for Khoulibaly last year. Him and Lindelof would be just great.
 

Litch

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Scapegoat when in reality he's just as falled as Harry, just in different ways. We need another CB but in reality not sure who it's to play with.....
 

Foxbatt

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We are looking at the earlier Lindelof. He has improved a lot since the season progressed.
I would like to see the stats on goals DeGea conceded because Lindelof failed to block the shot?
 

BenitoSTARR

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And Lindelof's defending isnt good enough long term.

Also we have the 3rd best record, not 2nd. 2nd was Smalling and Jones, 3rd this season is Maguire and Lindelof - even though they're the only team with a player like AWB at right back.

Which other team's starting back 4 in the league cost £190 million+?

City's defense for the majority of the season was Walker, Otamendi, Fernandinho and Mendy. Thats £174 million and one of them was bought as a DM and was being played out of position. It was their weakness and yet conceded 1 less goal than we did.
Based on what? Can you point to any individual stat that is seriously concerning?

By 1 goal... hardly a terrible defensive display.

You deliberately are missing out Laporte which shows again lack of context of who would start for them. By that logic we wouldn’t include Pogbas fee in our midfield this season... it’s stupid.

City have paid way more than United have for defenders. Each year seemingly replacing full back with £50m players.

That’s also because City are a better overall team than us or at least were for the first half of the season. We’ve had the best record since lockdown.
 

OrcaFat

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Lindelof has improved hugely this year, I was surprised by his pace such as against Vardy and in some other one on ones and impressed by his improved communication and increasing confidence bringing the ball out of defence. His heading is getting better too despite the odd alarming error which needs ironing out. I feel he has a determination to become outstanding and that will stand him in good stead.
I agree. He really gets about rapidly and clears up a lot of danger in all sorts of alarming areas. He’s not brilliant but he is becoming very good. I would keep him around but I think we need a real beast of an athlete to play next to Maguire who I would definitely build the defence around (even if he moves like a damaged tank at times).
 

Foxbatt

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First thing to say is it’s not entirely about Lindelofs qualities, but whether he is the right foil for Maguire for us to dominate games. We have seen ourselves hemmed in our own half for longer than we should too often.

That aside when I look back at players like Vidic, Ferdinand, Stam, Johnsen, and actually also Bruce as well as Smalling, they are all aggressive defenders who’s inclination is to squeeze the opposition’s midfield and actually get in front of the strikers when they can. Obviously the ideal combo is you have one CB who steps forward and the other who covers. Neither Lindelof or Maguire seem aggressive enough or perhaps lack the urgency to halt the attack as early as possible, subsequently we then get pressed and look nervous around our penalty area. We have seen this lead to Pogba losing possession because he is outnumbered/ receiving the ball where he doesn’t want to.
Let’s face it if you’re a striker who would you rather face? Lindelof doesn’t intimidate you, even if he is decent all round footballer.

I feel we need a DM or CM similar to Herrera or Neves as well as a more combative CB - dare I say it look at Kompany in his prime and how city have not managed to replace him. Huge difference...
Pogba losing possession is not because of Lindelof. It's his own problem. He doesn't need to get outnumbered. He dilly dallies too long and he loses even on one to one. Lindelof is a sensible player that needs to improve his heading a lot more. Normally keepers shouldn't get beaten by long range shots. I said normally.
DeGea has let in so many goals he should have saved. I do agree the longer the range the easier it's to save. So outfield players shouldn't let attacking players enter the area. But going in for a tackle and getting beaten is much worse than to slow down the attacker and get the numbers back to defend.
 

Ekeke

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Based on what? Can you point to any individual stat that is seriously concerning?

By 1 goal... hardly a terrible defensive display.

You deliberately are missing out Laporte which shows again lack of context of who would start for them. By that logic we wouldn’t include Pogbas fee in our midfield this season... it’s stupid.

City have paid way more than United have for defenders. Each year seemingly replacing full back with £50m players.

That’s also because City are a better overall team than us or at least were for the first half of the season. We’ve had the best record since lockdown.
All of them. Why would one individual statistic be a problem? Thats not the whole of a player's contribution. Lindelof is low across all of them, combined, when it comes to defending.

Laporte was injured, thats why Fernandinho - a DM was playing CB. Thats the team that had a better defensive record than ours by 1.

Laporte played 14 games, Fernandinho played 28 games as CB in his place. Did you miss the entire season?

So yes, our starting back 4 cost more than City's this season and 1 of theirs is an old DM and everyone has pointed to their defense as the reason they couldnt compete with Liverpool this season.
 

BenitoSTARR

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All of them. Why would one individual statistic be a problem? Thats not the whole of a player's contribution. Lindelof is low across all of them, combined, when it comes to defending.

Laporte was injured, thats why Fernandinho - a DM was playing CB. Thats the team that had a better defensive record than ours by 1.

Laporte played 14 games, Fernandinho played 28 games as CB in his place. Did you miss the entire season?

So yes, our starting back 4 cost more than City's this season and 1 of theirs is an old DM and everyone has pointed to their defense as the reason they couldnt compete with Liverpool this season.
All of them ok show me all of the things that concern you.

Yeah and it’s stupid to ignore the cost of him when talking about fees we’ve paid. You don’t ignore a CBs cost because they are injured you’re just deliberately being picky when you know in the wider context we are not overspending in that area.

The context here is important we are spending money on defence in line with our rivals. Also you won’t get a Lindelöf replacement for nothing so your answer to this is to throw more money at something that isn’t even an issue?

You don’t have a leg to stand on with your argument that he’s not working in our back line.
 

Ekeke

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All of them ok show me all of the things that concern you.

Yeah and it’s stupid to ignore the cost of him when talking about fees we’ve paid. You don’t ignore a CBs cost because they are injured you’re just deliberately being picky when you know in the wider context we are not overspending in that area.

The context here is important we are spending money on defence in line with our rivals. Also you won’t get a Lindelöf replacement for nothing so your answer to this is to throw more money at something that isn’t even an issue?

You don’t have a leg to stand on with your argument that he’s not working in our back line.
I've posted it several times already in this thread. It'll just have more people saying I hate someone I've never met. Its not my fault you're a new frog or cant be bothered to look back.

Yes, my answer is to replace the weak link so that we do have the best defense instead of spending the most and still being behind. Thats everyone's answer. Nobody has ever refused to improve their team.
 

andersj

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Simply not true. Made more recoveries per 90 min than Maguire according to statsbomb. Also made more blocks.

Yes he makes few tackles, interceptions and clearences. A lot of great CBs do, and it is a poor measure of how good a CB is used by people who dont understand the numbers or the game.
 

Ekeke

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Simply not true. Made more recoveries per 90 min than Maguire according to statsbomb. Also made more blocks.

Yes he makes few tackles, interceptions and clearences. A lot of great CBs do, and it is a poor measure of how good a CB is used by people who dont understand the numbers or the game.
Again. All of them combined. Taking individual statistics instead of looking at the whole picture using them is silly. Combine the tackles, interceptions, clearances, headers, even the "recoveries" even though it just means getting a ball nobody is in control of so its not actually defending anything. There is no top CB who is as low with these combined. Maguire comes out way on top, doing the vast majority of the work.

Examples of how silly your comment is - Schar and Bednarek have the most interceptions from CBs who played regularly. Does that 1 individual statistic make them the 2 best CBs in the league ? No. They don't do so well in a number of other statistics which shows why they dont come out on top overall.

Boly had the most tackles out of the CBs that played regularly. I guess he's the best CB.

Federico Fernandez made the most clearances, I guess he's the best CB

Mings blocked the most shots, I guess he's the best CB

Kortney Hause won the most headers, I guess he's the best CB


Its really strange that there are 5 or 6 of the one best CB. And none of them are VVD. Huh

But if you look at the combined numbers, VVD is at the top

Thats what fills out whats important.
 
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