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simmee

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If Lindelof is too closed to Vardy, Vardy would made a quick turn or accelerate to get passed him quickly, Lindelof won't stand a chance to cover this. If Lindelof is too far to Vardy, he has no pace to cover the distance as well.

That space he gave to Vardy was the ideal distance for himself to make sure he's quick enough to react & when he does, he equalled Vardy in a foot race for few seconds and then slow Vardy down by hustling him.
Sounds like Lindelof had really good game against Vardy and handled him perfectly. Glad someone as biased as you would confirm that. Means a lot to us who are fans of the whole club!
 

Cassidy

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I doubt Maguire would want to sit on the bench anywhere. But in Lindelof's case the Barca link is used like they(Barca) wanted him as a starter, which wasn't the case as reported by Sid Lowe who said Barca were looking for a cheap squad player and Lindelof was on the list.
You have totally missed the point
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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But he did, that's the whole point. He was close to Vardy and Vardy didn't accelerate away. Your denial that it didn't happen doesn't change the fact. That doesn't make Lindelof an Olympic sprinter, but it kind of shits on this tired notion that Lindelof is a carthorse.
No he didn't. The only time he was too close to Vardy was when he went challenge/tackle Vardy not when he equalled Vardy in a foot race.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Sounds like Lindelof had really good game against Vardy and handled him perfectly. Glad someone as biased as you would confirm that. Means a lot to us who are fans of the whole club!
I never biased. I gave credit where it was due & I'm being honest to his weakness & mistakes because that's his weakness & mistakes, nothing to hide. He's always good in positioning but doesn't mean I need to lie when he makes mistakes and about his weaknesses. And he had good game against Leicester, my motm.

 

Cassidy

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Please forgive me if I'm wrong. But did you not use the Lindelof link to Barca as a way to down play Maguire?

If I missed the point then I'm sorry mate and I will move on..
No. I responded to someone who said any club in Europe would sign Maguire over Lindelof.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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@simmee

Another post of mine not just from today that I gave credit to what he is good at. I don't do bias.

The only thing Lindelof is good at is his positioning & anticipation which is why he is playing above Jones & Bailly but Maguire is also good at those two, the rest aspects from Lindelof are just average or below average.
 

Isotope

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They didnt want Maguire for bench or squad so the point is irrelevant. Saying all European clubs would want Maguire and not Lindelof is obviously wrong based on that evidence. Which was my point
What in the world? Barca wanted Lindelof, not Varane. But even stupid person wouldn't say that Lindelof is better than Varane.

Barca wanted Pique instead of Rio or Vidic when they were all at United. Does it mean that Pique at that time was better than the later two?
 

ivaldo

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No he didn't. The only time he was too close to Vardy was when he went challenge/tackle Vardy not when he equalled Vardy in a foot race.
I can't discuss it with you when you're willing to alter reality to make a point. Enjoy.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I can't discuss it with you when you're willing to alter reality to make a point. Enjoy.
Rather than calling it as "alter reality''. You just need to show clips of Lindelof vs Vardy then if your point is the actual reality, otherwise you should speak no more by learning how to agree and disagree.
 

Cassidy

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What in the world? Barca wanted Lindelof, not Varane. But even stupid person wouldn't say that Lindelof is better than Varane.

Barca wanted Pique instead of Rio or Vidic when they were all at United. Does it mean that Pique at that time was better than the later two?
When did I say one was better than the other? Only a stupid person would have an anurism over something that wasnt said
 

ivaldo

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Rather than calling it as "alter reality''. You just need to show clips of Lindelof vs Vardy then if your point is the actual reality, otherwise you should speak no more by learning how to agree and disagree.
Or you could, seeing as you're claiming he's slow? Maybe you actually offer up an example other than using one instance involving Carrick from a decade ago?

It's not a case of agreeing or disagreeing. Altering a scenario to suit your agenda doesn't fall into that.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Or you could, seeing as you're claiming he's slow? Maybe you actually offer up an example other than using one instance involving Carrick from a decade ago?

It's not a case of agreeing or disagreeing. Altering a scenario to suit your agenda doesn't fall into that.
I gave explanation not only use Carrick’s case to answer your question how a slow Lindelof equalled Vardy in a foot race.

You denied it, called it ‘’alter reality’’ and gave nothing to prove it wrong. Lazy argument.
 

ivaldo

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I gave explanation not only use Carrick’s case to answer your question how a slow Lindelof equalled Vardy in a foot race.

You denied it, called it ‘’alter reality’’ and gave nothing to prove it wrong. Lazy argument.
No, you made up a scenario then demanded some evidence from me to disprove your point that Lindelof was slow. Crap argument that verges outright lies to push your agenda, hence why multiple other posters had called you out for it. Have a nice evening fella.
 

BenitoSTARR

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I gave explanation not only use Carrick’s case to answer your question how a slow Lindelof equalled Vardy in a foot race.

You denied it, called it ‘’alter reality’’ and gave nothing to prove it wrong. Lazy argument.
To be fair he did offer evidence to prove it wrong. And I agree with him.

I disagree with you because I have with my own eyes seen the evidence of Lindelöf keeping pace with “quick” players that the other poster is suggesting.
 

BenitoSTARR

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No, you made up a scenario then demanded some evidence from me to disprove your point that Lindelof was slow. Crap argument that verges outright lies to push your agenda, hence why multiple other posters had called you out for it. Have a nice evening fella.
For what’s its worth you are correct in this debate.
 

arthurka

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The Jack of no traits was something that I heard thrown about him and it kind of fits. No real strengths and no real weaknesses if you take heading and physicality out.. But he has taken strides every season to become better and he is available most of the time so.. But there is need to strengthen our CB pool.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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To be fair he did offer evidence to prove it wrong. And I agree with him.

I disagree with you because I have with my own eyes seen the evidence of Lindelöf keeping pace with “quick” players that the other poster is suggesting.
I never said Lindelof couldn't keep pace. Slow players can keep pace with quick players, I even give Carrick vs Aguero & Blind vs Lukaku as good example.

No, you made up a scenario then demanded some evidence from me to disprove your point that Lindelof was slow. Crap argument that verges outright lies to push your agenda, hence why multiple other posters had called you out for it. Have a nice evening fella.
No? Let's go through these then.

If Lindelof doesn't have pace why did he match Vardy stride for stride for 90 minutes?
I gave good example about players with no pace can go stride for stride

I asked such a simple question and that's how you reacted. I'll ask again, how did Carrick equalled Aguero in a foot race?
How did Blind match Lukaku stride for stride for 90 minutes? So Blind has power & pace now? It's about good positioning.
And you use lazy argument to respond it.

Talk to me again when you've sobered up.
You asked the question again.

I asked a simple question and this is how you respond? I'll ask again, what does that specific incident have to do with Lindelof and the fact he very rarely loses a footrace.
Same question, my answer is still the same but I add more detail.

I just explained it to you how Lindelof was able to keep up with Vardy, before Vardy made a quick turn or made a dash, Lindelof keep his distance in this type of situation to predict where the attackers went. This enables Lindelof to equalled Vardy in a foot race for few seconds and even able to slow Vardy down by hustling him.

If you still can't understand, nothing else I can help you mate.
And this is your response that no amount of positioning will entirely remove the advantage of pace.

"Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock."

No you didn't. It's disconcerting that you feel you have some deeper understanding of how positioning is applied to defending. I hate to burst your bubble, but it really isn't that difficult of a concept.

No amount of positioning will entirely remove the advantage of pace, hence why we've used this example, where Vardy has the space to run into, was in a similar starting position to Lindelof, and yet Lindelof still managed to keep up. If Lindelof was slow then that simple wouldn't happen, regardless of position. That doesn't make Lindelof lightning quick, but it means, without contestation, that he isn't slow either. I can't believe I'm having to explain this in this much detail. But hey, there was that one time with Carrick, right?
And my response is that yes it can!

If Lindelof is too closed to Vardy, Vardy would made a quick turn or accelerate to get passed him quickly, Lindelof won't stand a chance to cover this. If Lindelof is too far to Vardy, he has no pace to cover the distance as well.

That space he gave to Vardy was the ideal distance for himself to make sure he's quick enough to react & when he does, he equalled Vardy in a foot race for few seconds and then slow Vardy down by hustling him.
And you replied by saying that he was close to Vardy and calling me in denial.

But he did, that's the whole point. He was close to Vardy and Vardy didn't accelerate away. Your denial that it didn't happen doesn't change the fact. That doesn't make Lindelof an Olympic sprinter, but it kind of shits on this tired notion that Lindelof is a carthorse.
I have a similar reply to say he didn't and still respect your argument.

No he didn't. The only time he was too close to Vardy was when he went challenge/tackle Vardy not when he equalled Vardy in a foot race.
Of course, you didn't stop and instead replied with lazy argument because you can't accept agree & disagree.

I can't discuss it with you when you're willing to alter reality to make a point. Enjoy.
Have a nice evening fella. ;)
 

ivaldo

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@UNITED ACADEMY it's not often someone creates a post highlighting how crap their argument has been throughout, so I suppose I'll commend you for it. I'll allow the myriad of other posters who find your stance ridiculous to carry the flag.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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@UNITED ACADEMY it's not often someone creates a post highlighting how crap their argument has been throughout, so I suppose I'll commend you for it. I'll allow the myriad of other posters who find your stance ridiculous to carry the flag.
Another lazy argument here. You should learn how to agree and disagree mate.
 

A-man

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This fixativen that a player need to have high statistic numbers. There are many good CBs with low numbers and many not so good CBs with high numbers.

Lindelof has the same statistical numbers as de Ligt for example. Same amount of won aerials, clearances, etc.

He has similar numbers to Koulibaly. Lindelof is better in the air, doesn’t commit as many fouls and has more clearances but less tackles and interceptions. Overall pretty similar stats.

Lindelof has higher numbers than Laporte. Lindelof is much better in the air, and have many more clearances, but Laporte has more interceptions.

Lindelof’s numbers are more or less the same as Varane’s.

I can go all day. Some good players have high numbers and some good players don’t.
 

jesperjaap

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This fixativen that a player need to have high statistic numbers. There are many good CBs with low numbers and many not so good CBs with high numbers.

Lindelof has the same statistical numbers as de Ligt for example. Same amount of won aerials, clearances, etc.

He has similar numbers to Koulibaly. Lindelof is better in the air, doesn’t commit as many fouls and has more clearances but less tackles and interceptions. Overall pretty similar stats.

Lindelof has higher numbers than Laporte. Lindelof is much better in the air, and have many more clearances, but Laporte has more interceptions.

Lindelof’s numbers are more or less the same as Varane’s.

I can go all day. Some good players have high numbers and some good players don’t.
Exactly, dont trust statistics, majority of them are circumstantial and often meaningless
 

jesperjaap

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I used Jones as the average of centre back's pace. Slower than him then I consider the player as below average pace, slow.
Well the argument earlier whether it was you or someone else was comparing Lindelof to Blind and saying they were very similar players and one of the things mentioned was that he was very slow like Blind.

Whether or not he is slower than JOnes is irrelevant, he doesnt have similar pace to Blind and that was the comparison.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Well the argument earlier whether it was you or someone else was comparing Lindelof to Blind and saying they were very similar players and one of the things mentioned was that he was very slow like Blind.

Whether or not he is slower than JOnes is irrelevant, he doesnt have similar pace to Blind and that was the comparison.
Not really if you view the context like that. I basically meant it as both have the same weakness, physically weak and no pace. I meant it as both are slow.

Lindelof is pretty much the worse version of Blind. Both are physically weak with no pace, both relies on positioning to cover their weakness but Blind took it into step level above Lindelof. The stats tell you why Lindelof is just decent centre back while Blind is a good centre back.
 

ghagua

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Me too, better than here at least. And £30 million should do it
Now we're talking! If by some miracle he was to move, watch this place go wild with comments of how below average he is....from his supporters on here. Maguire has had his faults this season, but he has steadied the backline to the extent that even Lindelof is able to retain his first-team status. Put him alongside Bailly instead of Maguire and watch the fun.
 

ghagua

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That’s was the point, there are more ways to defend than dive in to a tackle. In the end it is the result that counts, not the amount of tackles, and we got one of the best defensive results in the most competitive leagues and at the second half it also looked good forward.

I understand the point of not jumping into every tackle, but I am not advocating he disappears and lets an opposition player take potshots at our goalie.
 

He'sRaldo

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That’s was the point, there are more ways to defend than dive in to a tackle. In the end it is the result that counts, not the amount of tackles, and we got one of the best defensive results in the most competitive leagues and at the second half it also looked good forward.





The way he backs off like that happens a lot. It doesn't always lead to goals, but it often leaves an impression that he's not pulling his weight defensively especially with being proactive, tackling, and generally getting stuck in.

He just simply doesn't like to engage, and as a CB it's a very weird trait, especially for a club like ours which needs proactive CB's. Sometimes I just trust my eyes with these things, and I'm calling it as I see it on the pitch. Nothing personal or agenda based.
 

Revan

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They didnt want Maguire for bench or squad so the point is irrelevant. Saying all European clubs would want Maguire and not Lindelof is obviously wrong based on that evidence. Which was my point
This does not make sense IMO. Maguire is too expensive (and too high profile) to be signed for the bench. Whatever club signed him, was going to play him.

In any case, Barca wanting a player does not say anything about that player's quality. And Maguire would be suitable for Barca too, his passing is very good, plus brings enough aggressiveness and good quality defending. I don't see why Lindelof would be able to do a job but Maguire wouldn't.

Magure is better than Lindelof (took me a while to understand this, and it is important to see past the price to get to this). Lindelof has more pace and doesn't get dribbled (while Maguire is very prone to be dribbled and also useless in 1 on 1), but in all other aspects (tackles, interceptions, clearances, blocks, aerial duels, passes) Magure is quite better.
 

yan man utd

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I’m starting to get confused as to what the whole debate is about. Obviously it’s great that we offer a whole spectrum or ‘rainbow’ of opinions on Lindelöf and Maguire - in fact the entire defensive part of our team.

First let’s establish why we are scrutinising the players we have available to fill the 7 positions that are responsible for doing the most defending and feeding our front 4, assuming you include the central midfield berth which Pogba occupies in those 7 positions.

Lets break that down further. To varying degrees that ‘back 7’ - a term I’m using simply for this analysis- have various different qualities and scope to defend and attack; obviously we know that everyone has to defend and attack. The problem is that from the goalkeeper to Pogba the chemistry is not right whether that be in terms of defending and preventing teams from getting close to our goal/ creating opportunities or building play quickly and efficiently, keeping possession especially in tight situations and getting the ball to our dangerous front 4 where they actually want the ball.

we are relying to heavily on the individual ability of those players.

one thing we all seem to agree on is that Maguire and Lindelof are not an ideal pairing. Another common opinion is that de gea is not commanding or confident enough on the ball and that Matic and Pogba are a bit pedestrian

that leaves the fullbacks - wan bissaka probably compensates for some of the lack of pace/aggresssion and shaw is good coming forward but there doesn’t seem to be much synergy ball playing wise among that ‘back 7’

it clearly needs addressing on the evidence of many matches this season
 

Kamprad

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I don’t know how anyone can deny the fact that Uniteds defense looks, feels and is much better with Lindelof than Smalling/Jones/Bailly. Yes he looks shite in almost every aspect. Weak, slow, can’t head the ball, rarely passes the ball more than 2 metres. But I’d choose him over Smalling every day. He reminds me of a certain frenchman who signed for United at the end of his career. Also looked shite but the defense as a whole was good.
 

Revan

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I don’t know how anyone can deny the fact that Uniteds defense looks, feels and is much better with Lindelof than Smalling/Jones/Bailly. Yes he looks shite in almost every aspect. Weak, slow, can’t head the ball, rarely passes the ball more than 2 metres. But I’d choose him over Smalling every day. He reminds me of a certain frenchman who signed for United at the end of his career. Also looked shite but the defense as a whole was good.
This is not true though. Weak, I would agree (it is actually more than he is hesitant rather than really being bullied), but he is neither slow, nor bad aerially. And his passing is more than decent.