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2020-21 Performances


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Ekeke

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Sooner or later he will be out for months.
Wouldnt that be best for everyone?

He's not playing that well, an injury might be making that worse and if we want to progress Tuanzabe and Bailly are going to need to step up so they should get a chance. If he gets a break to be 100% fit while the others have a run of games to show what they can and cannot do instead then he can come back in, hopefully with strong competition and not because he's willing to play injured
 

Foxbatt

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did he have a decent game? I only saw a few minutes of the highlights and he nearly got an assist. He did wave his arms about a lot too so its not only at United that he waves his arms about.
 
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Wouldnt that be best for everyone?

He's not playing that well, an injury might be making that worse and if we want to progress Tuanzabe and Bailly are going to need to step up so they should get a chance. If he gets a break to be 100% fit while the others have a run of games to show what they can and cannot do instead then he can come back in, hopefully with strong competition and not because he's willing to play injured
why would we want to progress Bailly? He’s got no future at United. Tuanzebe yes, but he’s being managed back, and will get game time as long as he can stay fit.

I’m not the biggest fan of Lindelof, but he’s by far the best partner we have for Maguire at the moment, and we need him to be fit. Outside of Maguire and Lindelof we have no other reliable centre halves.
 

united_99

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Bailly needing a chance :houllier:
How many chances does he still need?
Needs to get sold as soon as possible.
 

eltigreFalcao

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I think he meant "if we want to progress, one of Bailly or Tuanzebe would need to step up" and he's right, everyone need's their chance unless he's completely fronzen out as Jones and Rojo are. Either Bailly or Tuanzebe need to step up, mostly Axel (who turned up 23 today), since Bailly has failed multipl times. That doesn't mean though that Bailly deserves to be frozen out, hes a back up CB and as such is in this scenarios in which he is ought to step up

Mainly, Lindelof should not be a guaranteed starter if he's struggling with back pain, and it's a perfect scenario for Tuanzebe to stake a claim.
 

Foxbatt

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The fact that Ole still selects him may show that Ole does not have much faith in Axel right now. But Axel should get more games for sure.
 

The United

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The fact that Ole still selects him may show that Ole does not have much faith in Axel right now. But Axel should get more games for sure.
Well, he is easing him in. And, he is still a very young player for CB position with injury issues.
 

Ekeke

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why would we want to progress Bailly? He’s got no future at United. Tuanzebe yes, but he’s being managed back, and will get game time as long as he can stay fit.

I’m not the biggest fan of Lindelof, but he’s by far the best partner we have for Maguire at the moment, and we need him to be fit. Outside of Maguire and Lindelof we have no other reliable centre halves.
Because if he isnt able to stay fit and play well like his first season theres no point having him.

And if he can stay fit and play like his first season he's a better CB than Lindelof with strengths that would improve our backline. So he needs to be given the chance in a run of games so we can determine at this point what he is. If he doesn't do better than Lindelof in a run of games then we sell him
 
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Because if he isnt able to stay fit and play well like his first season theres no point having him.

And if he can stay fit and play like his first season he's a better CB than Lindelof with strengths that would improve our backline. So he needs to be given the chance in a run of games so we can determine at this point what he is. If he doesn't do better than Lindelof in a run of games then we sell him
that was in 2016! You are right however, there’s no point having him. He needs to go.
As I said, his weaknesses far outweigh his perceived strengths. He’s not a better defender than Lindelof, and no he doesn’t deserve a run of games - that time has long gone. He’s still here, so if we need him, he can play, but only as an emergency.

It’s Maguire, Lindelof, Tuanzebe. Then as soon as we can get rid of Rojo, Jones and Bailly, we can get a worthy 4th CB who can push for a starting slot.

Back to the original point, it’s certainty not a good thing if Lindelof is injured. We need him fit, I’m not his biggest fan, but aside from Tuanzebe (and let’s not put too much pressure in him, he’s been injured a long time, and not played a great deal) the options are pretty dire.
 

Sean_RedDevil

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Wouldnt that be best for everyone?

He's not playing that well, an injury might be making that worse and if we want to progress Tuanzabe and Bailly are going to need to step up so they should get a chance. If he gets a break to be 100% fit while the others have a run of games to show what they can and cannot do instead then he can come back in, hopefully with strong competition and not because he's willing to play injured
Well if Lindelöf is out for few months with a back injury (We have seen with Rashford that such an injury can happen fast) then we would only have Maguire and Tuanzebe because Bailly is still injured, Jones is still injured (+ he can't play in the Premier League) and who knows what is going on with Rojo.
 

Dorris

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Wouldnt that be best for everyone?

He's not playing that well, an injury might be making that worse and if we want to progress Tuanzabe and Bailly are going to need to step up so they should get a chance. If he gets a break to be 100% fit while the others have a run of games to show what they can and cannot do instead then he can come back in, hopefully with strong competition and not because he's willing to play injured
Not his biggest fan by any means, but I think he’s been really good since Spurs.

Bailly’s had 4 years, he’s not good enough.
 

Ekeke

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Not his biggest fan by any means, but I think he’s been really good since Spurs.

Bailly’s had 4 years, he’s not good enough.
If Lindelof has been good, then Bailly has been better than good at times here but with more problems. If he cant show he doesnt have those problems this season, we need someone else
 

Ekeke

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Well if Lindelöf is out for few months with a back injury (We have seen with Rashford that such an injury can happen fast) then we would only have Maguire and Tuanzebe because Bailly is still injured, Jones is still injured (+ he can't play in the Premier League) and who knows what is going on with Rojo.
Those players need to show that they can be counted on or theres no point having them. If they cant cover for an injured first teamer they shouldnt be at the club
 

brzez

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Not looking good for him. Back pain and substituted after 65 min. Got some treatment at HT, but couldn’t finish the game. So he has played ~160 mins with the NT plus all of our games. Was just a matter of time.

He won’t start against WBA and will probably be out for awhile.
 

Red Royal

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Those players need to show that they can be counted on or theres no point having them. If they cant cover for an injured first teamer they shouldnt be at the club
I'd rather try McTominay in a back 3. McT, Harry and Axel. Telles and WanBisakka as wing backs.
 

Ekeke

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So Sweden's defense got absolutely demolished by France and in particular Giroud. He scored 2 goals but he should have had another 2 with relatively simple headers for him. Lindelof and Danielson lost him in the air time and again, although 1 of Giroud's 2 goals was from holding his position in the box and sweeping it home with his left foot when played back to him, so he scored 1 out of the 3 headers he probably should have and the other with his left foot. Sweden played 6, 13 goals conceded and just 3 points, relegated from the Nations League A bottom of their group
 

SwedishFish

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So Sweden's defense got absolutely demolished by France and in particular Giroud. He scored 2 goals but he should have had another 2 with relatively simple headers for him. Lindelof and Danielson lost him in the air time and again, although 1 of Giroud's 2 goals was from holding his position in the box and sweeping it home with his left foot when played back to him, so he scored 1 out of the 3 headers he probably should have and the other with his left foot. Sweden played 6, just 3 points and relegated from the Nations League A bottom of their group
Eh, to be fair. Lindelöf noticeably struggled throughout the game and the Swedish commentators thought he'd go off at HT.

Presumably, he didn't because of a lack of experienced options in the squad.

Think you're being a tad harsh on someone laboring through injury/pain, especially with that type of shambolic defense around him and the lack of a real DM with Ekdal suspended.
 

A-man

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Eh, to be fair. Lindelöf noticeably struggled throughout the game and the Swedish commentators thought he'd go off at HT.

Presumably, he didn't because of a lack of experienced options in the squad.

Think you're being a tad harsh on someone laboring through injury/pain, especially with that type of shambolic defense around him and the lack of a real DM with Ekdal suspended.
I would say it was the midfield that struggled which lead to the defence being under constant pressure.
 

Ekeke

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Eh, to be fair. Lindelöf noticeably struggled throughout the game and the Swedish commentators thought he'd go off at HT.

Presumably, he didn't because of a lack of experienced options in the squad.

Think you're being a tad harsh on someone laboring through injury/pain, especially with that type of shambolic defense around him and the lack of a real DM with Ekdal suspended.
I guess you didnt read the post. I blamed the defense, not one player. The CB next to him didnt do any better
 

andersj

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Would be very unfortunate with sn injury on him now. Even if our team has struggeled, I think our defence with Lindelof in the team has been good and improving ever since that awful Brighton game. Our worst games came without him (vs Spurs and Istanbul).

We have been up against a few good teams, but our stats in this period is not bad at all. He is also the most progressive player in our defence. A really undervalued part of his game considering how much we struggle playing out from the back.
 

MattofManchester

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What's with our squad and moderate back injuries? Rashford had a back problem exacerbated by continuing to play, now Lindelof has a back injury and apparently Martial as well.

Hope we let them heal for now rather than let them play through it.
 

A-man

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What's with our squad and moderate back injuries? Rashford had a back problem exacerbated by continuing to play, now Lindelof has a back injury and apparently Martial as well.

Hope we let them heal for now rather than let them play through it.
He was out because of back problem for a week or so last season, and I think he played through injury as well.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Thought he was a bit better against Chelsea and we saw him bring the ball out of defence multiple times. His passing wasnt great but he was able to step forward into midfield. Much better for him to have Fred and McTominay in front of him, players who cover a lot of ground and want to challenge for the ball. Also hes statistically just about our best CB and 7th of our players overall. He is very rarely anywhere near there so best to mention it while its true because based on his history he wont stay there as we hopefully improve over the course of the season. Maybe he'll improve with the rest of the team this time
Statistically our best CB??? Where do you get that from??? Last season Maguire's stats were closer to VVD than they were to Lindelof. It isn't even close. Maguire is by far our best defender, especially when looking at the stats.

------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50

Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost

https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274

And if you would like to look at the stats this year, I haven't broken them all down like I did here, but just take a quick peak at WhoScored.com and you will quickly realize that after a poor start by our entire team, Maguire is still statistically better than Lindelof

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/100008/Show/Victor-Lindelöf
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/99487/Show/Harry-Maguire
 

Ekeke

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Statistically our best CB??? Where do you get that from??? Last season Maguire's stats were closer to VVD than they were to Lindelof. It isn't even close. Maguire is by far our best defender, especially when looking at the stats.

------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50

Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost

https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274

And if you would like to look at the stats this year, I haven't broken them all down like I did here, but just take a quick peak at WhoScored.com and you will quickly realize that after a poor start by our entire team, Maguire is still statistically better than Lindelof

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/100008/Show/Victor-Lindelöf
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/99487/Show/Harry-Maguire
Got it from weeks ago when i made the post. Probably best to respond to things when they happen rather than a month after. Maguire has been better since
 

archiebald

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What's with our squad and moderate back injuries? Rashford had a back problem exacerbated by continuing to play, now Lindelof has a back injury and apparently Martial as well.

Hope we let them heal for now rather than let them play through it.
Ideally they should rest but then we'd have to play Ighalo up front, Greenwood/James on the left and Mata on the right, or some other permutation of those players. Might even have to give Lingardinho a run out again.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Got it from weeks ago when i made the post. Probably best to respond to things when they happen rather than a month after. Maguire has been better since
So what you're saying is that you were making a knee jerk reaction? Besides, even if you made this post 2 months ago, it doesn't change the fact that it was 100% wrong considering I posted stats from all of last season as well...
 

Bondi77

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What's with our squad and moderate back injuries? Rashford had a back problem exacerbated by continuing to play, now Lindelof has a back injury and apparently Martial as well.

Hope we let them heal for now rather than let them play through it.
The only one in our side who would have a legitimate claim to having a bad back would be Bruno.......He has been carrying the side since he has been here!
 

PlayerOne

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Why is he allowed to play for Sweden when he has a back injury and it seems to have gotten worse? We have so many games coming up, one more injury to one of our CB's and we're in real trouble.
 

A-man

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So what you're saying is that you were making a knee jerk reaction? Besides, even if you made this post 2 months ago, it doesn't change the fact that it was 100% wrong considering I posted stats from all of last season as well...
I think you need to read posts better before you make aggressive replies. @Ekeke clearly stated that this was stats at that moment and that he expected that to change.

When you use stats, you need to make an assessment if they represent what you are trying to describe. Some random stats who had the most headers, clearances etc does not reflect performance. We could also add stats like conceded goals; Harry Maguire 14 goals in 7 matches = 2 per game; Victor Lindelöf 8 goals in 6 matches = 1.33 per game.
I would say that Lindelof has been one level above Maguire so far this season, and even last spring, but it looks like Maguire is step by step getting back to the form he showed before covid. There have also been indications that the defence as a whole works better when Lindelof is playing, compared to when he is not playing. Could be coincidences or he has skills to make it happen.
 

Ekeke

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So what you're saying is that you were making a knee jerk reaction? Besides, even if you made this post 2 months ago, it doesn't change the fact that it was 100% wrong considering I posted stats from all of last season as well...
I'm saying I made an honest post on how the situation was a few weeks into the season, where Maguire had been poor and while Lindelof is anything but what I consider a very solid CB, he was doing better than our other CBs at that time. Maguire has got better since then.

I'm glad someone thinks I was being too nice to Lindelof because I usually get mountains of the opposite. When you get both sides coming for you, those that cant stand him and those that would say he's great no matter what complaining about you then you've been right in the middle, where I like to be.
 

SadlerMUFC

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I'm saying I made an honest post on how the situation was a few weeks into the season, where Maguire had been poor and while Lindelof is anything but what I consider a very solid CB, he was doing better than our other CBs at that time. Maguire has got better since then.

I'm glad someone thinks I was being too nice to Lindelof because I usually get mountains of the opposite. When you get both sides coming for you, those that cant stand him and those that would say he's great no matter what complaining about you then you've been right in the middle, where I like to be.
I don't hate any of our players. I think Lindelof is very good. I just don't think he should Maguire's first choice partner. We need a left footed central defender so Maguire can play in Lindelof's position on the right.

As for Lindelof's performances, let's not forget that after the season opener vs Palace most people were looking to burn him at the stake.

I also don't like how Maguire is treated unfairly around here. Everyone had a poor start to the season. I don't think they were match fit. But because Maguire has a huge price tag, he took the blame. It has all been spearheaded by Mark "I complain about people having agenda's but I have the biggest agenda of them all" Goldbridge.
 

SadlerMUFC

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I think you need to read posts better before you make aggressive replies. @Ekeke clearly stated that this was stats at that moment and that he expected that to change.

When you use stats, you need to make an assessment if they represent what you are trying to describe. Some random stats who had the most headers, clearances etc does not reflect performance. We could also add stats like conceded goals; Harry Maguire 14 goals in 7 matches = 2 per game; Victor Lindelöf 8 goals in 6 matches = 1.33 per game.
I would say that Lindelof has been one level above Maguire so far this season, and even last spring, but it looks like Maguire is step by step getting back to the form he showed before covid. There have also been indications that the defence as a whole works better when Lindelof is playing, compared to when he is not playing. Could be coincidences or he has skills to make it happen.
I provided the stats that proved that it was full of sh*te. Anyone who says Maguire should be benched has an agenda against him and should pick up a new sport. You don't improve by benching your best players. Was Maguire awful against Tottenham? Yes he was. Everyone was. But remember, Lindelof didn't start that game for a reason as he was in horrible form. So that goals against you posted doesn't prove Lindelof was better. It proves he was lucky to not have to be a part of that sh*te show of a match. Either way, as it stands right now, Magure and Lindelof is our best partnership. But if anyone suggests that Maguire should be the one who is dropped if we do get in a new central defender, then they really need to give their head a big giant shake and then drop the agendas...
 

Kostov

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I think you need to read posts better before you make aggressive replies. @Ekeke clearly stated that this was stats at that moment and that he expected that to change.

When you use stats, you need to make an assessment if they represent what you are trying to describe. Some random stats who had the most headers, clearances etc does not reflect performance. We could also add stats like conceded goals; Harry Maguire 14 goals in 7 matches = 2 per game; Victor Lindelöf 8 goals in 6 matches = 1.33 per game.
I would say that Lindelof has been one level above Maguire so far this season, and even last spring, but it looks like Maguire is step by step getting back to the form he showed before covid. There have also been indications that the defence as a whole works better when Lindelof is playing, compared to when he is not playing. Could be coincidences or he has skills to make it happen.
Based on what exactly? In no case Lindelof has been a level above Maguire, despite Maguire having a stinker against Spurs he has been our best CB again this year, comfortably I would say, and that tells about the state of the others.
 

A-man

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Based on what exactly? In no case Lindelof has been a level above Maguire, despite Maguire having a stinker against Spurs he has been our best CB again this year, comfortably I would say, and that tells about the state of the others.
Based on the matches played so far, Lindelof has been clearly better. That goes for both PL and CL. And I’m not saying Lindelof has been great, it’s more that Maguire has been pretty poor. But as I wrote, it seems as Maguire is getting back to his normal standard again.

I provided the stats that proved that it was full of sh*te. Anyone who says Maguire should be benched has an agenda against him and should pick up a new sport. You don't improve by benching your best players. Was Maguire awful against Tottenham? Yes he was. Everyone was. But remember, Lindelof didn't start that game for a reason as he was in horrible form. So that goals against you posted doesn't prove Lindelof was better. It proves he was lucky to not have to be a part of that sh*te show of a match. Either way, as it stands right now, Magure and Lindelof is our best partnership. But if anyone suggests that Maguire should be the one who is dropped if we do get in a new central defender, then they really need to give their head a big giant shake and then drop the agendas...
He was good last season, at least the first part. But he is by no means undroppable. And yes Spurs was a shite show but Maguire was part of that. He was also part of the fiasco vs Istanbul. He will come back and yet again be one of the best defenders in the PL, I have no doubt, but no need to pretend he has been great so far this season because he hasn’t. I am convinced he hasn’t played at his max level so far this season and that he is capable of much better.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Based on the matches played so far, Lindelof has been clearly better. That goes for both PL and CL. And I’m not saying Lindelof has been great, it’s more that Maguire has been pretty poor. But as I wrote, it seems as Maguire is getting back to his normal standard again.


He was good last season, at least the first part. But he is by no means undroppable. And yes Spurs was a shite show but Maguire was part of that. He was also part of the fiasco vs Istanbul. He will come back and yet again be one of the best defenders in the PL, I have no doubt, but no need to pretend he has been great so far this season because he hasn’t. I am convinced he hasn’t played at his max level so far this season and that he is capable of much better.
Did you really just blame Maguire for the goals at Istanbul? Wow. Now go on...try and tell me you don't have an agenda against him after statements like that. He had nothing to do with either goal. One was a corner where he was forward (Matic, Shaw, AWB should be covering) and the other was a Bruno/Mata screw up. Are you going to blame him for trying to stop Ba (who dummied)? If so, then the agenda is really strong with you...such a shame