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dronesoul

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@dronesoul So your entire basis of him being able to play in DM is because he's played there at youth level, despite not showing the qualities needed at the top level?

Might as well stick AWB up at right wing since he played there in his youth as well. fecking stupid how people keep assuming players can just show up and play another position. If he was any good at it, he would have sticked to playing that position when breaking through.
This is the last comment I can write today. So I'll use it to give you this great suggestion. Read my longer comment again. This time read it slowly, really taking it in , and not just focusing what you should reply to what you think I wrote, but instead to what I wrote. That's a great way to discuss things, and you won't just throw around tiresome straw man arguments about what people on here _haven't said_. Try it out.
 

elmo

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No, that's not what I said at all. I was just replying to the stuff you said Lindelöf "doesn't do" as a CB. Then I added that he played as a DM at youth level. Never in my comment did I suggest that I'm certain that Lindelöf would be a great DM?

What I did write however, is that it's pretty damn hard to for someone playing as a CB to show DM qualities as their roles and responsibilities are completely different. Can't you read?
Got it, so he's magically going to transform his game to become the total opposite of how he has played throughout his professional career just because people on here thinks he can play DM.

The mental gymnastics people go on here to try and fit Lindelof into our starting lineup is ridiculous.
 

mu4c_20le

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I think both sides have made a few good points for and against us trying him in the DM role. I wouldn‘t mind seeing him in that role once.

However, I think the biggest problem would be the way he will need to adapt from always having the game in front of him as a CB, to be surrounded by the game as a DM. It‘s a massive step that I think would be the biggest of all mentioned challenges.

Obviously, he will never be good enough to fill that role permanently in the way we need him to. But maybe, just maybe he could be a short-term stopgap.
Everything so far is just theorycraft. There's no way of knowing how he'd do there until he's actually tried there in a competitive match. There are some success stories like Marquinhos, but they are very few and far in between, I wouldn't hold my breath on it.
 

Gums

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Everything so far is just theorycraft. There's no way of knowing how he'd do there until he's actually tried there in a competitive match. There are some success stories like Marquinhos, but they are very few and far in between, I wouldn't hold my breath on it.
Agree. I really would like to see him in a competitive match as a DM at least once though. Even if it ends with me slapping my forehead and rolling my eyes.
 

Albin Johansson

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Got it, so he's magically going to transform his game to become the total opposite of how he has played throughout his professional career just because people on here thinks he can play DM.

The mental gymnastics people go on here to try and fit Lindelof into our starting lineup is ridiculous.
I wouldn't call it mental gymnastics since the manager of Manchester United "tried and fit" VNL into the first XL several times and will do it again. The again, maybe you just might be the superior manager?

This is not me saying he should play DM by the way, which I have to confirm since you seem unable to try and fit two things in your head.
 

dutchred

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I would try him as a DM against some of the teams that park the bus against us, allowing Bruno and Paul more freedom.
 

Foxbatt

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This is the last comment I can write today. So I'll use it to give you this great suggestion. Read my longer comment again. This time read it slowly, really taking it in , and not just focusing what you should reply to what you think I wrote, but instead to what I wrote. That's a great way to discuss things, and you won't just throw around tiresome straw man arguments about what people on here _haven't said_. Try it out.
Actually you make some good points. All DMs don't need to chase down players like Kante. Lindelof at CB is not going to allow him to be pressed nor is he going to hunt down players leaving empty space behind him. His passing and his reading of the game is good. He has got decent pace and his control and passing is a lot better than Fred and McTominay.
Can he play in midfield? We won't know until it's tried. I would like to see it in a decent cup game or an arranged match. Unless he turns out to be brilliant we need to get a new quality DM.
 

roonster09

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Actually you make some good points. All DMs don't need to chase down players like Kante. Lindelof at CB is not going to allow him to be pressed nor is he going to hunt down players leaving empty space behind him. His passing and his reading of the game is good. He has got decent pace and his control and passing is a lot better than Fred and McTominay.
Can he play in midfield? We won't know until it's tried. I would like to see it in a decent cup game or an arranged match. Unless he turns out to be brilliant we need to get a new quality DM.
His passing is not better than McTominay and Fred. Passing with acres of space and no one near him is much different than passing when you are pressed. Also Lindelof playing pass like he did to Bruno once or twice in a season won't make him a better passer. McTominay played so many better passes when he switched the play and that's playing in midfield in crowded space. Fred also plays lot of through passes on the ground and more often that not it creates a good attacking position for us.

Not sure what Lindelof can offer in DM that other's can't.
Can he win tackles? He is too passive.
Can he dribble past players? We haven't seen much of that even when he had acres of space to accelerate.
Can he pass the ball? Like every professional player he can too
Strength, physicality? Not sure about that.

It might work out and suddenly we might see a very good DM in lindelof but going by how he played at ManUtd chances are very slim. Maybe we should try that in a cup game.
 

Ekeke

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Looks like he had a good game against Spain, lots of clearances. Another example of where if you only have 25% of the ball and are pinned back defending, thats when he can do a job
 

Joseunited

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So we don't know he's a good DM, because he has never played there?
Well feck me, let's try VDB at CB and Maguire as a winger.

Lindelof's ability on the ball is limited, especially while being pressed. His best attribute is his positioning, but he shies away from one on ones. How does this describe a United quality DM? He'd be McTominay without the energy or grit, with a slightly better positional sense when defending in our own box.

He's a fine CB, that's not good enough to be a starter for a top 4 PL team. Be content he'll always be available from the bench and not get injured getting out of his car.
What is the point of saying that?Everyone's coming out saying he can't play the DM position because of what he does(or does't do) at CB.
How can he be criticised as a DM until he's seen playing in that position.
Also where does he shy away from one on ones?
 

Glorio

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It's not the wildest suggestion in the world, I don't think. We've played O'Shea, Jones, TFM, and Axel there anyway and they did Ok.

I for one won't be against trying it out. He's not the most aggressive CB but I reckon he is a better tackler than both members of McFred. In terms of defensive positioning, he'll probably be a lot better considering he knows what protection a CB would appreciate, and we know this isn't a strong suit for McFred.


One area I'd be concerned with is whether he can pass well under pressure, and just as importantly, trust himself to do so. He does seem comfortable on the ball but controlling the ball in the thick of it in midfield is very different to passing it to Maguire with no opponents around you.
 

Zlaatan

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I’ve been here long enough to know that some actually think that way

explain to me how im toxic in this thread? Apart from once when I called him a fanny and stopped after and stuck to criticising his weak points and his performances. I stand by my view that I’ve had since day 1, he is not good enough for a first team regular in this league. As a squad player fine but not as a regular. I am glad that we have upgraded that position now and that he had to really step up his game, which is what I said in my other post that you took offence to for some reason
You are toxic against him whether you see it yourself or not and the fact that multiple posters says so should tell you something, I was going to call you out the other day in the James thread because I couldn't believe that you couldn't see that you are doing the exact same thing that you say other posters are doing.

For example, this is the post you made in a thread called "If I say Sweden. What comes to mind?" and even if it's just a joke or banter or whatever it's still a post I would expect to see over at RAWK or some rival fans forum, not on here in a thread that isn't even about United and definitely not from a mod.



“You go first Harry!”


“I’m hiding Harry! That boy over there is bullying me!”
 

lex talionis

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Lindelof has no future as a CDM. If we’re racked with injuries of course we could stick him there for 45 minutes, but all discussion (which is hopefully just a pisstake during the international break, in which case I say we’ll done) of converting Lindelof to a midfielder is absurd.

Lindelof does offer us some flexibility, obviously beginning with the fact that he’s a pretty decent central defender who reads situations well and is a confident passer of long balls, but his athleticism is questionable.

A third CB in a spot situation, of course. RB if Wan-Bissaka is out and Dalot is out of form, sure. Lindelof is reasonably competent with the ball, but being able to complete a 30 yard pass is a different proposition altogether than working out of tight spaces.
 

RedDevil@84

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You are toxic against him whether you see it yourself or not and the fact that multiple posters says so should tell you something, I was going to call you out the other day in the James thread because I couldn't believe that you couldn't see that you are doing the exact same thing that you say other posters are doing.

For example, this is the post you made in a thread called "If I say Sweden. What comes to mind?" and even if it's just a joke or banter or whatever it's still a post I would expect to see over at RAWK or some rival fans forum, not on here in a thread that isn't even about United and definitely not from a mod.
Him denying toxicity against Lindelof is gotto be biggest joke of the year. Anyone who has spent enough time on the Lindelof threads can clearly see the unhealthy obsession. He even gave a like to a newbie who abused Lindelof on last year's thread. Not to mention, criticizing Swedish NT for making Lindelof as a captain.

It is not new though. People who relentlessly abuse Pogba or Rashford or Ole and have an itch to see the player fail, so that they can go and post "I told you so" on the performance threads, all call it "healthy and fair criticism".
 

golden_blunder

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Can anyone tell me what parts that I’ve said about Lindelof are actually unfair critiques?

ive said;

- is a weak header
- is weak in physical battles
- back peddles too much
- is passive in his defending
- is prone to the press leading to sideways passes putting colleagues in bigger risks

what off that is untrue and what of that causes you lot to have a grudge against me?

before anyone mentions anything else about that national team captaincy selection read back a few posts. I’m getting a bit bored with it now
 

golden_blunder

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You are toxic against him whether you see it yourself or not and the fact that multiple posters says so should tell you something, I was going to call you out the other day in the James thread because I couldn't believe that you couldn't see that you are doing the exact same thing that you say other posters are doing.

For example, this is the post you made in a thread called "If I say Sweden. What comes to mind?" and even if it's just a joke or banter or whatever it's still a post I would expect to see over at RAWK or some rival fans forum, not on here in a thread that isn't even about United and definitely not from a mod.
THAT picture got your pants in a knot? Really?
 

simmee

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Him denying toxicity against Lindelof is gotto be biggest joke of the year. Anyone who has spent enough time on the Lindelof threads can clearly see the unhealthy obsession. He even gave a like to a newbie who abused Lindelof on last year's thread. Not to mention, criticizing Swedish NT for making Lindelof as a captain.

It is not new though. People who relentlessly abuse Pogba or Rashford or Ole and have an itch to see the player fail, so that they can go and post "I told you so" on the performance threads, all call it "healthy and fair criticism".
:lol: Then is surprised that posters abuse our other players as well.
 

11101

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His passing is not better than McTominay and Fred. Passing with acres of space and no one near him is much different than passing when you are pressed. Also Lindelof playing pass like he did to Bruno once or twice in a season won't make him a better passer. McTominay played so many better passes when he switched the play and that's playing in midfield in crowded space. Fred also plays lot of through passes on the ground and more often that not it creates a good attacking position for us.

Not sure what Lindelof can offer in DM that other's can't.
Can he win tackles? He is too passive.
Can he dribble past players? We haven't seen much of that even when he had acres of space to accelerate.
Can he pass the ball? Like every professional player he can too
Strength, physicality? Not sure about that.

It might work out and suddenly we might see a very good DM in lindelof but going by how he played at ManUtd chances are very slim. Maybe we should try that in a cup game.
This is the point everybody is missing. Lindelof likes to sit back and manage the threat away rather than get up and engage players directly. That's fine for a defender to play that way but in midfield you need to get involved. It's just not the way he plays.
 

golden_blunder

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:lol: Then is surprised that posters abuse our other players as well.
I again say, the criticism aimed at Lindelof and the criticism aimed at Jones and at time James and Lingard were two very different types of criticism. How can you not see that? Lindelof has not yet had people saying he’s stealing a living, a championship player, should be given away for free, etc. Lindelofs criticism ALL stem from abilities he struggles with. Neither myself or any other poster as far as I’m aware have levelled that type of criticism against him week in week out
 

Teja

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- is a weak header
- is weak in physical battles


- back peddles too much
- is passive in his defending
I feel like the #3, #4 are a symptom of #1 and #2. He doesn't challenge the aerial long ball / lets it bounce, so he has to backpedal a bit. But then I don't remember a single case where that resulted in a scoring / threatening situation, he usually deals with it 1v1.

Being passive in cases like that IMO isn't a huge problem, if you go in all guns like AwB and miss the tackle or foul the attacker you pick up a card or worse, let a goal in.

If you're able to mask #1, #2 (sort of like what Chelsea do with Christensen), he could be a very good CB. As it stands every single physical forward stands next to Lindelof and asks for the ball direct.
 

golden_blunder

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I feel like the #3, #4 are a symptom of #1 and #2. He doesn't challenge the aerial long ball / lets it bounce, so he has to backpedal a bit. But then I don't remember a single case where that resulted in a scoring / threatening situation, he usually deals with it 1v1.

Being passive in cases like that IMO isn't a huge problem, if you go in all guns like AwB and miss the tackle or foul the attacker you pick up a card or worse, let a goal in.

If you're able to mask #1, #2 (sort of like what Chelsea do with Christensen), he could be a very good CB. As it stands every single physical forward stands next to Lindelof and asks for the ball direct.
Good point and there may be something in that
 

Revan

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:lol: Then is surprised that posters abuse our other players as well.
You cannot abuse only meh players like Jones, Lingard and James. Belittling the good ones like Lindelof is fine though.
 

simmee

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I again say, the criticism aimed at Lindelof and the criticism aimed at Jones and at time James and Lingard were two very different types of criticism. How can you not see that? Lindelof has not yet had people saying he’s stealing a living, a championship player, should be given away for free, etc. Lindelofs criticism ALL stem from abilities he struggles with. Neither myself or any other poster as far as I’m aware have levelled that type of criticism against him week in week out
You liked a post saying that Lindelöf should be shipped out. You also liked a post saying "I fecking hate this guy". How is that any different from the "outrageous" stuff that has been aimed towards Jones, James or Lingard? Do you want to keep digging or should we just call it a day so I can go and have a beer?
 

golden_blunder

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You liked a post saying that Lindelöf should be shipped out. You also liked a post saying "I fecking hate this guy". How is that any different from the "outrageous" stuff that has been aimed towards Jones, James or Lingard? Do you want to keep digging or should we just call it a day so I can go and have a beer?
what’s wrong with saying he should be shipped out? We saw no improvement in personal mistakes and yes I felt he should be upgraded. Which we’ve done, so I am happy

that said I’m actually bored of this long ago so run along and have your beer
 

Foxbatt

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Playing like a DM at CB is asking for a disaster. I don't know if he is going to turn out to be a decent DM? But the transfer window is closed and we didn't get a DM. Trying a ball playing DM like Lindelof at DM is no harm. There are and were many players who can play as DM and a CB. Maybe not brilliant but did a decent job.
 

simmee

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what’s wrong with saying he should be shipped out? We saw no improvement in personal mistakes and yes I felt he should be upgraded. Which we’ve done, so I am happy

that said I’m actually bored of this long ago so run along and have your beer
You said this "I again say, the criticism aimed at Lindelof and the criticism aimed at Jones and at time James and Lingard were two very different types of criticism. How can you not see that? Lindelof has not yet had people saying he’s stealing a living, a championship player, should be given away for free, etc.". You like similar criticism in this thread. How can you then be shocked that other players receive that kind of criticism/abuse? You are the one making that kind of posters full members...
 

golden_blunder

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You said this "I again say, the criticism aimed at Lindelof and the criticism aimed at Jones and at time James and Lingard were two very different types of criticism. How can you not see that? Lindelof has not yet had people saying he’s stealing a living, a championship player, should be given away for free, etc.". You like similar criticism in this thread. How can you then be shocked that other players receive that kind of criticism/abuse? You are the one making that kind of posters full members...
Actually I’m not, we have a team of mods for that

I fail to see how any of the criticisms I have for Lindelof (listed above) or any of the tongue in cheek posts are anything like some of the vile posts we’ve had for Jones, James and Lingard. They are nothing alike.

now jog on for your beer
 

elmo

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This is the point everybody is missing. Lindelof likes to sit back and manage the threat away rather than get up and engage players directly. That's fine for a defender to play that way but in midfield you need to get involved. It's just not the way he plays.
Exactly my point.

Players don't magically completely change their game round just because you try them out at a different position, but you've people convinced he can do a job there because he played there when he was in the under 21s. :houllier: If he was any good at DM, he would have broken through playing in midfield rather than as a CB.

From the way his fan boys keep defending him, you'll think he's the second coming of Ferdinand and Keano all rolled in one.
 

mu4c_20le

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I think it's only simmee, he has been defending Lindelof for years. When he has a good game people praise him, when he has a bad one he gets rightly criticized. He is the only one who thinks wanting to 'ship him out' equates to the abuse that Jones regularly gets.
 

VanDeBank

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You are toxic against him whether you see it yourself or not and the fact that multiple posters says so should tell you something, I was going to call you out the other day in the James thread because I couldn't believe that you couldn't see that you are doing the exact same thing that you say other posters are doing.

For example, this is the post you made in a thread called "If I say Sweden. What comes to mind?" and even if it's just a joke or banter or whatever it's still a post I would expect to see over at RAWK or some rival fans forum, not on here in a thread that isn't even about United and definitely not from a mod.
:lol: Thanks for reposting. That was funny. How that could upset anyone is beyond me. I really don't see the similarities with chastising an injured player for drawing a salary.
 

TwoSheds

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Can anyone tell me what parts that I’ve said about Lindelof are actually unfair critiques?

ive said;

- is a weak header
- is weak in physical battles
- back peddles too much
- is passive in his defending
- is prone to the press leading to sideways passes putting colleagues in bigger risks

what off that is untrue and what of that causes you lot to have a grudge against me?

before anyone mentions anything else about that national team captaincy selection read back a few posts. I’m getting a bit bored with it now
I think all of those things are true. I also think the fact that you literally never miss an opportunity to jump on Lindelof is a bit off. Don't get me wrong, as a 2nd choice CB he annoyed the shit out of me but as 3rd or 4th choice in an era where most CBs are shite? You've got to let the guy live sometimes.
 

Zlaatan

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THAT picture got your pants in a knot? Really?
Can't say it did no as I probably would've said so at the time if it did, and I wouldn't have brought it up now if you hadn't called our fan base toxic and then tried to label your own behaviour as "different" either.
I mean what's the difference between calling him a fanny, liking posts that say they hate him or making meme's that tries to show how afraid he is of a "boy" vs saying that James/Jones or any other United player is a cnut, stealing a living or a championship player?

It's clear as day that you and a few others take every opportunity you get to crap on Lindelöf, otherwise you wouldn't be among the top posters in basically every Lindelöf thread on here, and when you then go to other threads and call out posters for being toxic you are being hypocritical, simple as that.
 

golden_blunder

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I think all of those things are true. I also think the fact that you literally never miss an opportunity to jump on Lindelof is a bit off. Don't get me wrong, as a 2nd choice CB he annoyed the shit out of me but as 3rd or 4th choice in an era where most CBs are shite? You've got to let the guy live sometimes.
I have no issue with him now that he’s rightfully a squad player. I felt that was a position that was begging to be upgraded which we’ve thankfully done now with Varane.
 

golden_blunder

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Can't say it did no as I probably would've said so at the time if it did, and I wouldn't have brought it up now if you hadn't called our fan base toxic and then tried to label your own behaviour as "different" either.
I mean what's the difference between calling him a fanny, liking posts that say they hate him or making meme's that tries to show how afraid he is of a "boy" vs saying that James/Jones or any other United player is a cnut, stealing a living or a championship player?

It's clear as day that you and a few others take every opportunity you get to crap on Lindelöf, otherwise you wouldn't be among the top posters in basically every Lindelöf thread on here, and when you then go to other threads and call out posters for being toxic you are being hypocritical, simple as that.
If you can’t see the difference then that’s on you.