Victor Osimhen

Mmm-Qatarian said:
I find this line of argument a bit ridiculous, honestly. When Liverpool got Salah, it isn't like a host of other Premier League sides were queuing up to thwart them. When Newcastle signed Isak, they didn't have to fight off a host of other top sides for his signature.

We can't just be judging players based on whether other top teams are also interested in them. There are a myriad of factors at play determining the players that other sides do or don't take an interest in.
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Were either of your examples talked about as one of the best in the world in their positions before signing for PL clubs? Or was it only after they signed — and proved themselves in the league — when they got the recognition they deserved?
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
In other words, it’s a trap.

Osimhen is the second coming of Drogba and yet no one in the PL wants him. Kinda like how we gazzumped our rivals by snapping up Højlund.
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It’s just very strange by now. Osimhen is generally classed as a top 10 striker in the world (Mbappe, Kane, Lewandowski, Haaland and Isak definitely ahead) yet, zero interest… from anyone? :confused:
Mmm-Qatarian said:
I find this line of argument a bit ridiculous, honestly. When Liverpool got Salah, it isn't like a host of other Premier League sides were queuing up to thwart them. When Newcastle signed Isak, they didn't have to fight off a host of other top sides for his signature.

We can't just be judging players based on whether other top teams are also interested in them. There are a myriad of factors at play determining the players that other sides do or don't take an interest in.
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Neither player cited had a name that carries anywhere near the weight of Osimhen’s at the time of their moves. They aren’t like for like examples.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Were either of your examples talked about as one of the best in the world in their positions before signing for PL clubs? Or was it only after they signed — and proved themselves in the league — when they got the recognition they deserved?
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Both you and @Fortitude have made this point and I honestly don't see the relevance.

Sure, neither Isak nor Salah were quite as well-known globally as Osimhen, but both had multiple seasons of exposure by the time they were signed. Salah had scored more than 10 goals across two seasons in Serie A by that point, and Isak had played three seasons for Real Sociedad even if he was less proven.

Neither were completely unknown entities by the time they were signed by Liverpool and Newcastle respectively, and it would not have been at all difficult for other top teams to have found out about them.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
Both you and @Fortitude have made this point and I honestly don't see the relevance.

Sure, neither Isak nor Salah were quite as well-known globally as Osimhen, but both had multiple seasons of exposure by the time they were signed. Salah had scored more than 10 goals across two seasons in Serie A by that point, and Isak had played three seasons for Real Sociedad even if he was less proven.

Neither were completely unknown entities by the time they were signed by Liverpool and Newcastle respectively, and it would not have been at all difficult for other top teams to have found out about them.
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It’s not even close to the same bracket as to be pointless to compare - neither were even top 10 in the world before coming to the PL and neither moved the dial for any other set of supporters in the country because they were both still potential. Osimhen is the finished article and touted as one of the world’s best strikers; he’d be coming to the PL to contribute a massive goal return and have an immediate impact, no ifs, buts or maybes - hence his wage demands also.

Let’s say Osimhen is the #6 striker in the world, anyone ranked #6 in their position in the world is coming to the PL as a very big deal indeed.

He may still come, but it won’t be as a purchase, imo.
 
Fortitude said:
It’s just very strange by now. Osimhen is generally classed as a top 10 striker in the world (Mbappe, Kane, Lewandowski, Haaland and Isak definitely ahead) yet, zero interest… from anyone? :confused:
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Huge wage demands. Chelsea called themselves out last year, Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico, Bayern and PSG aren't looking for a CF and in England, you have 3 clubs who might have an interest. Liverpool appear to have zeroed in on Isak/Ekitike - so clearly looking at a very different profile

So all that's left are Arsenal, who want Sesko, and United. Juventus are trying to sign him, but it's extremely unlikely they'll have the money for it

Then you have Gala and Al Hilal
 
I dont understand why we want him, he is clearly hung up about money. Our new hierarchy keep talking about only signing players who want to be here. Does he? Or are we an option to pay him 500 grand a week. No thanks, you may be a brilliant player, if you dont bleed to play for the badge, then there is Saudi for you.
 
MrBest said:
I dont understand why we want him, he is clearly hung up about money. Our new hierarchy keep talking about only signing players who want to be here. Does he? Or are we an option to pay him 500 grand a week. No thanks, you may be a brilliant player, if you dont bleed to play for the badge, then there is Saudi for you.
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We quite clearly don't.
 
Fortitude said:
It’s not even close to the same bracket as to be pointless to compare - neither were even top 10 in the world before coming to the PL and neither moved the dial for any other set of supporters in the country because they were both still potential. Osimhen is the finished article and touted as one of the world’s best strikers; he’d be coming to the PL to contribute a massive goal return and have an immediate impact, no ifs, buts or maybes - hence his wage demands also.

Let’s say Osimhen is the #6 striker in the world, anyone ranked #6 in their position in the world is coming to the PL as a very big deal indeed.

He may still come, but it won’t be as a purchase, imo.
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I'd agree with most of what you've said about Osimhen there. To be fair to you, I'm not actually sure you were intending to make the point that I was refuting earlier either, which is that the lack of Premier League interest must indicate that there's something about him as a player that is putting them all off. As you and others have said, I think the money involved is more likely to be the factor that's giving teams pause for thought. AFCON is another complicating factor.
 
Fortitude said:
It’s not even close to the same bracket as to be pointless to compare - neither were even top 10 in the world before coming to the PL and neither moved the dial for any other set of supporters in the country because they were both still potential. Osimhen is the finished article and touted as one of the world’s best strikers; he’d be coming to the PL to contribute a massive goal return and have an immediate impact, no ifs, buts or maybes - hence his wage demands also.

Let’s say Osimhen is the #6 striker in the world, anyone ranked #6 in their position in the world is coming to the PL as a very big deal indeed.

He may still come, but it won’t be as a purchase, imo.
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I've made the same point elsewhere. I just find it strange, bar Chelsea towards the end of last summer, that no-one in England seems to have seriously been engaged in negotiations with him, considering how sparse the market for top centre forwards actually is.

And if it is down to money, I'm not sure the strategy from his side? He's obviously turned down an absolute fortune from Saudi, so it's not purely about money, but why would you price yourself out of moves to the top clubs in the top leagues?

It's just not quite adding up to me.
 
GoonerBear said:
I've made the same point elsewhere. I just find it strange, bar Chelsea towards the end of last summer, that no-one in England seems to have seriously been engaged in negotiations with him, considering how sparse the market for top centre forwards actually is.

And if it is down to money, I'm not sure the strategy from his side? He's obviously turned down an absolute fortune from Saudi, so it's not purely about money, but why would you price yourself out of moves to the top clubs in the top leagues?

It's just not quite adding up to me.
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Yeah the lack of interest is surely down to wages being too prohibitive even for moneybags Chelsea
 
Fortitude said:
It’s not even close to the same bracket as to be pointless to compare - neither were even top 10 in the world before coming to the PL and neither moved the dial for any other set of supporters in the country because they were both still potential. Osimhen is the finished article and touted as one of the world’s best strikers; he’d be coming to the PL to contribute a massive goal return and have an immediate impact, no ifs, buts or maybes - hence his wage demands also.

Let’s say Osimhen is the #6 striker in the world, anyone ranked #6 in their position in the world is coming to the PL as a very big deal indeed.

He may still come, but it won’t be as a purchase, imo.
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Salah was one of the 3 best wingers in Serie A, 15 goals and 11 assists and many pre-assist and one of the main contributor to Roma’s title challenge (by Arteta standards) against UCL finalists Juventus... Only Mertens (8 years older) was on his level… Other clubs not wanting him says more about them than him. Liverpool’s analysts were clearly way ahead of us at identifying top fit for their high intensity football.
 
Pintu said:
Salah was one of the 3 best wingers in Serie A, 15 goals and 11 assists and many pre-assist and one of the main contributor to Roma’s title challenge (by Arteta standards) against UCL finalists Juventus... Only Mertens (8 years older) was on his level… Other clubs not wanting him says more about them than him. Liverpool’s analysts were clearly way ahead of us at identifying top fit for their high intensity football.
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I don’t think what you’re saying changes anything with regard to what you’re quoting. Before he arrived in England after signing for them these were comments in his thread:

Smacky The Frog said:
Saw quite a bit of him at Chelsea, and then for Fiorentina. Unless he's massively improved at Roma, he is the epitome of the fast winger who looks amazing on Youtube, but is immensely frustrating to watch on a weekly basis. He's the kind of athletic winger the Premier League has seen a lot of - the type who looks incredible one week and absolute shit the next. The "he has all the ingredients, but if only he could figure it out..." type. They never do.

He's not a particularly good dribbler, unless kicking the ball 10 yards past a defender and trying to recover it himself constitutes good dribbling. His technique and decision-making can fluctuate anywhere between adequate to Bramble, often in the same game. He's at his best in an open game with space to run into, something he won't see a lot of at a big club, especially not in the Premier League.

Pretty sure Rodgers - or the nefarious "transfer committee" at Liverpool - were interested in him before Chelsea came along, so he might get a chance there. I could see him being successful in Klopp's system for a couple of months, leading to lots of hot takes about Klopp vs. Mourinho, and general hysteria, before he inevitably returns to his original level and we pretend those discussions never happened.

The only other feasible "big club" option in England could be Arsenal, if Arsene decides he wants to relive the Theo Walcott Experience (™). They're already reliving every season on a loop, why not take the next step and relive the players that led to them reliving every season? Loops within loops within loops. Feels like something Arsene would be into.
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Mr Anderson said:
Think he is a decent acquisition on paper. An improvement on what they have, but a part of the pitch were they have so many similar players. Questions over will he deliver week in/week out which they do struggle with. But think 40mill should have been spent on their obvious defensive issues first, then a striker. Salah is far from the player they actually needed in right now.
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PeteManic said:
If Klopp likes him then he must run a lot.

Just looks like a fancy Jermaine Pennant to me. Second rate player and shows the status of Liverpool compared to other European sides. Nothing especially exciting at all and they are treating it like they've signed Messi.
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Kurosawa said:
He's about as good a winger as Morata is a Striker.
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Acole9 said:
He's super fast but not sure if there's much else going for him really.
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An Irish Red said:
It's one of those signings where I wouldn't want him here but I'm not happy that they've got him either. His pace could improve them like.
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dannyrhinos89 said:
Do Not care about them signing him at all.

They're far too attack heavy the rest of the team is dog crap. As long as they've got the likes of mignolet, karius, Klavan, Henderson, can, Lucas, Lovren, Moreno etc behind their attack they'll go nowhere.
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giorno said:
You scored 101 goals that season. The team you have now doesn't have that many goals in it.

He's a good signing, but he's not gonna win you the league. More than fixing the defence(which short of inventing time travel and signing peak Stam and Nesta, you can't really fix. Not under Klopp, not with your current attacking players), what you absolutely need is a top striker. A box scorer who can break down packed defences.
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Nori- said:
You'd think Liverpool just signed Messi's younger twin from the reaction over the last day.

Yes he is a good player, but to already start the "watch next season" remarks is laughable. Just setting themselves up for another massive 'LOL'
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Badunk said:
5th post in the thread and spot on.
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antihenry said:
Back at Chelsea he always looked like a headless chicken to me. Very fast, but shit end product. Perhaps he's gotten better since then but I wouldn't want him back, especially for the kind of money Liverpool are paying. He may look better in Klopp's system though, since his speed is tailor made for their counter attacking approach.
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Vashu said:
I haven't watched any Roma game last season, but I've seen extended highlights from half of their games. Salah is rapid but with him changing Serie A for PL and not exactly being known for his defensive contribution I don't think he has the gas tank for Klopp demands.
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Van Piorsing said:
Elegant dribbler and decent finisher but still not a game changer that Liverpool needs to seriously challenge for something. As window will progress, Klopp has to set the bar higher for John Henry if they want to be successful.
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Jev said:
Would rather have him than Perisic to be honest.
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Rafateria said:
All reasons why I don't want him and think it would be £20-25m wasted.
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I stopped at page 5. There were also positive comments, but nobody was talking about him as a top 6-10 talent in the world and there was cautious optimism/positivity at best, which is befitting of a player people don’t believe had proven himself yet. You’re right sbout Liverpool’s scouting, though, but that was never contested.

Osimhen is a different kettle of fish in terms of regard. I don’t think you will see outside of a top 10 list of current strikers by m(a)ny, hence his wage demands. He also wouldn’t be coming to the league as a ‘let’s see’ he’d 100% expected to deliver prolifically and in accordance with his standing. There’s not many players that kind of expectation is reserved for.
 
giorno said:
Huge wage demands. Chelsea called themselves out last year, Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico, Bayern and PSG aren't looking for a CF and in England, you have 3 clubs who might have an interest. Liverpool appear to have zeroed in on Isak/Ekitike - so clearly looking at a very different profile

So all that's left are Arsenal, who want Sesko, and United. Juventus are trying to sign him, but it's extremely unlikely they'll have the money for it

Then you have Gala and Al Hilal
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Mmm-Qatarian said:
I'd agree with most of what you've said about Osimhen there. To be fair to you, I'm not actually sure you were intending to make the point that I was refuting earlier either, which is that the lack of Premier League interest must indicate that there's something about him as a player that is putting them all off. As you and others have said, I think the money involved is more likely to be the factor that's giving teams pause for thought. AFCON is another complicating factor.
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Re. Money. I think Napoli’s situation has fecked them and their bargaining strength when it comes to the player so the whole ball game for acquiring him changes to waiting to the last days of the window then bartering at knock down prices on a loan. So I’ve answered my own question, I guess.

Butttt, if he’s so special and so highly regarded, why hasn’t a club stepped in regardless? If this were Kane or Lewandowski before they made their last moves, it wouldn’t go down like this and clubs would be fighting one another to land their signature, so it says a lot about Osimhen that nobody is going to be doing the same for him.
GoonerBear said:
I've made the same point elsewhere. I just find it strange, bar Chelsea towards the end of last summer, that no-one in England seems to have seriously been engaged in negotiations with him, considering how sparse the market for top centre forwards actually is.

And if it is down to money, I'm not sure the strategy from his side? He's obviously turned down an absolute fortune from Saudi, so it's not purely about money, but why would you price yourself out of moves to the top clubs in the top leagues?

It's just not quite adding up to me.
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Yeah, agree, as posted above. It doesn’t add up. You leave players with questions about them to chance (our boys), not a supposed 6th best striker on the planet.
 
Fortitude said:
Re. Money. I think Napoli’s situation has fecked them and their bargaining strength when it comes to the player so the whole ball game for acquiring him changes to waiting to the last days of the window then bartering at knock down prices on a loan. So I’ve answered my own question, I guess.

Butttt, if he’s so special and so highly regarded, why hasn’t a club stepped in regardless? If this were Kane or Lewandowski before they made their last moves, it wouldn’t go down like this and clubs would be fighting one another to land their signature, so it says a lot about Osimhen that nobody is going to be doing the same for him.
Yeah, agree, as posted above. It doesn’t add up. You leave players with questions about them to chance (our boys), not a supposed 6th best striker on the planet.
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Ehhh, I'd argue that like I may have swung too far one way in posting Salah and Isak as alternatives, you're now going too far in the other direction by talking about Kane and Lewandowski.

I really like Osimhen and even I wouldn't argue he's done enough throughout his career to be comparable to those two. Kane and Lewandowski are two of the best strikers in football history. Osimhen is, I think, pretty damn great but he's not "forget about the money and do everything you can to sign him" great.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
Ehhh, I'd argue that like I may have swung too far one way in posting Salah and Isak as alternatives, you're now going too far in the other direction by talking about Kane and Lewandowski.

I really like Osimhen and even I wouldn't argue he's done enough throughout his career to be comparable to those two. Kane and Lewandowski are two of the best strikers in football history. Osimhen is, I think, pretty damn great but he's not "forget about the money and do everything you can to sign him" great.
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I've stated multiple times he's probably 6th on striker standing in the world right now. That is supposed to carry massive weight in and of itself.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
Salah had scored more than 10 goals across two seasons in Serie A
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10 goals across 2 seasons in the Serie A, you say? :lol:
I thought you were being serious before, but Højlund / Zirkzee numbers announcing world class status is a bit too much for anyone to swallow. But you got me, fair play.
 
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Fortitude said:
Re. Money. I think Napoli’s situation has fecked them and their bargaining strength when it comes to the player so the whole ball game for acquiring him changes to waiting to the last days of the window then bartering at knock down prices on a loan. So I’ve answered my own question, I guess.
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It's not an issue of transfer fee, it's an issue of wages specifically. He is on colossal money at Napoli and doesn't want to take a paycut. Clubs aren't interested in breaking their wage structure for him....
Fortitude said:
Butttt, if he’s so special and so highly regarded, why hasn’t a club stepped in regardless? If this were Kane or Lewandowski before they made their last moves, it wouldn’t go down like this and clubs would be fighting one another to land their signature, so it says a lot about Osimhen that nobody is going to be doing the same for him.
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.....because he's not *that* special

He's the best striker available in the market by far I think, but he's 26 - he doesn't have much upside left. And he's not a Haaland, or Kane or even Isak caliber of striker. He's better than Ekitike or Sesko, but he doesn't have their upside plus he's a very specific type of striker - a pure goalscorer - and we're increasingly seeing teams move away from those in favour of guys more like, well, like Ekitike and Sesko, if not outright false 9s
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
10 goals across 2 seasons in the Serie A, you say? :lol:
I thought you were being serious before, but Højlund / Zirkzee numbers announcing world class status is a bit too much for anyone to swallow.
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Sorry, that was poor wording on my part. I had meant to say that Salah had scored 10 goals in both of the two most recent seasons he played in Serie A prior to his move to Liverpool.
 
giorno said:
It's not an issue of transfer fee, it's an issue of wages specifically. He is on colossal money at Napoli and doesn't want to take a paycut. Clubs aren't interested in breaking their wage structure for him....

.....because he's not *that* special

He's the best striker available in the market by far I think, but he's 26 - he doesn't have much upside left. And he's not a Haaland, or Kane or even Isak caliber of striker. He's better than Ekitike or Sesko, but he doesn't have their upside plus he's a very specific type of striker - a pure goalscorer - and we're increasingly seeing teams move away from those in favour of guys more like, well, like Ekitike and Sesko, if not outright false 9s
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I think this puts it very nicely.

Osimhen would still be my pick of the somewhat realistic striker options this summer but I'd agree that he's not a "special" talent in the way people often use that term. I also wouldn't advocate for his signing if his wages really were going to be 350k per week, as has been reported by some outlets.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
10 goals across 2 seasons in the Serie A, you say? :lol:
I thought you were being serious before, but Højlund / Zirkzee numbers announcing world class status is a bit too much for anyone to swallow. But you got me, fair play.
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2 seasons of more than 10 goals

Roma fans used to joke that if Salah could finish, he'd be Messi

Well, about that....
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
Sorry, that was poor wording on my part. I had meant to say that Salah had scored 10 goals in both of the two most recent seasons he played in Serie A prior to his move to Liverpool.
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I thought you were doing a long-game wind up, apologies.

Salah's numbers in Serie A were not super far removed from Højlund and Zirkzee, and I don't think any opposition fans trembled when we signed either one of them. Salah came to the PL and went up four or five gears. Maybe it was all down to Klopp's magic inhalers.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
I thought you were doing a long-game wind up, apologies.

Salah's numbers in Serie A were not super far removed from Højlund and Zirkzee, and I don't think any opposition fans trembled when we signed either one of them. Salah came to the PL and went up four or five gears. Maybe it was all down to Klopp's magic inhalers.
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Numbers aren’t everything, and still he was way better than them…He was the playmaker of the second best team in Italy that year. Hojlund scored less for Atalanta than he did here in his first season.



IMG-2398.jpg
 
Darlington Padgett said:
If we get Mbeumo, Osimhen shouldn't be an option. Having 5 players out during the African Cup is too much.
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That would be Onana, Amad, Mbeumo, Osimhen... And who else am I missing?

Onana missing a few games wouldn't be the end of the word to be fair.
 
Napolitan radio say Liverpool want Osimhen. It KissKiss radio, not reliable, but Napoli want Nunez for sure and maybe Chiesa, so they suggest swap. Swap is quite common in Italia, but not so much in PL?
 
Bello Giacomo said:
Napolitan radio say Liverpool want Osimhen. It KissKiss radio, not reliable, but Napoli want Nunez for sure and maybe Chiesa, so they suggest swap. Swap is quite common in Italia, but not so much in PL?
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Feck sake just when you think it can't get worse
 
Disappointed we haven't brought up his name if Napoli really do want to sign Sancho and maybe Hojlund
 
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