Viktor Gyökeres | Arsenal Player

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I’d imagine Amorim would be gutted to miss out on both Gyokeres and Quenda.

But then again Amorim has played his part in the atrocious league form, so I could see him accepting a cheaper alternative.
 
Can we really take another risk at signing someone expensive? What happens if he flops? The only way i see us getting out of this mess is that we sign cheaper players who bring a ton of value to the squad. If they fail, we dont incur heavy losses and move them on.

I’m no big fan of Delap but he definitely fits that low risk high (potential) reward signing
I understand the sentiment, and I appreciate that we - of all fanbases - know what it's like to be burned on terribly overpriced players who turned out to be nowhere near as able as the valuation suggested, but that has been down to terrible recruitment of players who weren't well regarded in the first place. In other words, we've paid obscene amounts for players that nobody else would because they don't see a player worth that amount in assessment.

The one player it's fair to say was worth there or thereabouts his valuation that we've brought in on the high end has been Yoro, who was being lined up for Real Madrid no less, before we interjected and had to pay a premium to procure him. We went in for a player regarded as the best young prospect CB in the world and he looks good money to be something special.

Gyokeres is not a young prodigy, but he is a player rounding out into his peak years who a lot of top clubs are eyeing up - if he doesn't go to one top club, he'll for sure be going to another top club. This is the kind of player you should always be in for if the finances permit. It's how all top clubs operate, and then they supplement with cheaper buys in other positions, but if your strategy is to spread thin and cheaply, you need absolutely elite recruiters because the likelihood of finding diamonds in the dirt are extremely low and if you're then not careful, you've filled your squad with dross that not only lowers the collective level, they also are hard to move on for a decent amount. It's just death by a thousand cuts instead of a fatal swing or two as occurs with a big value flop - it's still going to end in tears.

If we're going to go to the bargain basement, we're better off promoting from within or trying to be shrewd in the market, with: free agents, players in the last year of contracts and the like. It's by no means a guarantee of things turning out better or for the best. Quality of quantity is paramount, and we've shown no aptitude in the budget market to be making it our business model. We've been bad on both sides of the coin, but there's a reason why the top clubs shop at the top end of the market and not the bottom. You can get bolder and braver with speculative punts once you've assembled a quality side with a strong core; those guys will be the staple of your team and enable you to branch off with supplemental players.

But again, elite talent supplemented with academy graduates was always this clubs' best and most effective model. We've no business (or ability) veering away from that.
 
Can we really take another risk at signing someone expensive? What happens if he flops? The only way i see us getting out of this mess is that we sign cheaper players who bring a ton of value to the squad. If they fail, we dont incur heavy losses and move them on.

I’m no big fan of Delap but he definitely fits that low risk high (potential) reward signing

Sure he could fail but the likelihood is less than it would be for Delap.

You are taking less of a risk on a more established player being a success than you are on a younger inexperienced one. Going the route of buying low priced higher risk players may cost more in the long term because you end up with higher turnover of players trying to get lucky getting the right player.

If Gyökeres comes and is successful he would be the cheaper option than possibly taking a bigger risk on Delap that doesn't work and another risk on a similar bracket player 2 years later. He's more likely to solve a major issue quickly.

I'm not saying either strategy is right or wrong. In two years time Delap could be the better player and in hindsight the obvious choice.

IMO the strategy should be to go after the player we think has the highest potential for success taking everything into account.

What is a truly risky option is paying big money for the high risk player, like we did with Højlund. That can of course work, but probably should only be done when you're in a position of power and can afford a high risk reward deal every now and then.
 
Surprised how many people want him, if you go through his goals this season you wouldn't be able to name a single player in the teams he plays against - the Portuguese league is so bad. I don't think he's scored against Porto/Benfica (could be wrong), 12 of his league goals are penalties and his npXG is 20ish, large overperformance. His compilations are hilarious too, the defenders look sunday league level they go flying at every opportunity. His hattrick v Man City is so overrated too, 2 penalties and the other goal fair enough but was up against a random kid called Simpson-Pusey (where he still lost his duels). Biomechanics look average, takes ages to get his shot off I just don't see him replicating half his goals for a big PL team
You make fair points, but, who knows, he could be another Bruno. I'm not Bruno's biggest fan but he came in from that league and made an immediate impact so it can happen. I'd say he's our only undisputed successful signing this past decade, too. You can argue others but I think everyone else would split the fanbase somewhat whereas Bruno is generally regarded as a success regardless of how highly you may or may not rate him, but I digress!

There's also the problem that there aren't that many great alternatives either. Do you have a preference seeing as you're not on board with this potential transfer?
 
I’d imagine Amorim would be gutted to miss out on both Gyokeres and Quenda.

But then again Amorim has played his part in the atrocious league form, so I could see him accepting a cheaper alternative.
Particularly if they both ended up going to Chelsea, like you say he might well have to make do with an unproven Delap unless we win Europa
 
I am a bit surprised that so many on here are so deflated regarding our attractiveness.
We`ve had a rough season amidst change in the club, but we are still Manchester United, still one of the biggest and most popular clubs in the world. And as such we are not going to stay at this seasons level for long.

I think for players in Gyokeres' age bracket we are probably not as appealing a move as players on either side of that bracket, since it feels unlikely that we challenge for major trophies within the next 2-3 years. It's different for Yoro or Zirkzee, if things don't work out here then they just move on, but someone in the 26-29 age bracket, the next 2-3 years are probably the last of their absolute peak years and the years they would be hoping to actually win some big trophies, if they have not already done so.

I can understand the pessimism about someone like him. Still hope we can manage to get him though.
 
Surprised how many people want him, if you go through his goals this season you wouldn't be able to name a single player in the teams he plays against - the Portuguese league is so bad. I don't think he's scored against Porto/Benfica (could be wrong), 12 of his league goals are penalties and his npXG is 20ish, large overperformance. His compilations are hilarious too, the defenders look sunday league level they go flying at every opportunity. His hattrick v Man City is so overrated too, 2 penalties and the other goal fair enough but was up against a random kid called Simpson-Pusey (where he still lost his duels). Biomechanics look average, takes ages to get his shot off I just don't see him replicating half his goals for a big PL team
It really is as much of a gamble as Delap, just for different reasons and at a costlier price point
 
I think for players in Gyokeres' age bracket we are probably not as appealing a move as players on either side of that bracket, since it feels unlikely that we challenge for major trophies within the next 2-3 years. It's different for Yoro or Zirkzee, if things don't work out here then they just move on, but someone in the 26-29 age bracket, the next 2-3 years are probably the last of their absolute peak years and the years they would be hoping to actually win some big trophies, if they have not already done so.

I can understand the pessimism about someone like him. Still hope we can manage to get him though.
We couldn´t exactly pick and choose whoever we fancied when we were in our pomp with Fergie either. Getting top players are always difficult. But it feels like people are completely throwing ing in the towel early.
 
Surprised how many people want him, if you go through his goals this season you wouldn't be able to name a single player in the teams he plays against - the Portuguese league is so bad. I don't think he's scored against Porto/Benfica (could be wrong), 12 of his league goals are penalties and his npXG is 20ish, large overperformance. His compilations are hilarious too, the defenders look sunday league level they go flying at every opportunity. His hattrick v Man City is so overrated too, 2 penalties and the other goal fair enough but was up against a random kid called Simpson-Pusey (where he still lost his duels). Biomechanics look average, takes ages to get his shot off I just don't see him replicating half his goals for a big PL team

Biomechanics looks average? I dont think it does. He also has very impressive physique. A really fast, strong runner with «perfect build».

His npxg in the CL this season is at 0,45. That is probably more representative of where he would be in the PL. That would probably leave him in the range of 13 and 17 goals from open play in the PL. But he also has, consistently, good xag numbers and he is a player that would get close to 10 assists.
 
Biomechanics looks average? I dont think it does. He also has very impressive physique. A really fast, strong runner with «perfect build».

His npxg in the CL this season is at 0,45. That is probably more representative of where he would be in the PL. That would probably leave him in the range of 13 and 17 goals from open play in the PL. But he also has, consistently, good xag numbers and he is a player that would get close to 10 assists.
Between 13 and 17 goals. How is that at least 30m better than Delap, who may score more in a better team than Ipswich?
 
Remember, Sporting is not much better in the CL than Ipswich is in PL.
To be honest I don’t have a preference either way. I just disagree with those that think he’s nailed on to score lots here. For me he’s as much of a gamble as Delap just at a higher price point
 
To be honest I don’t have a preference either way. I just disagree with those that think he’s nailed on to score lots here. For me he’s as much of a gamble as Delap just at a higher price point

I agree that he is not nailed on for anything. I disagree strongly that he is «just as much of a gamble as Delap».
 
There’s no guarantee with any of them
I agree. And I understand your worries of having another big money flop. I think the biggest plus of Gyokeres is his past with Amorim. Hojlund seems to not being able to understand what Amorim wants from him. He's not good enough but that aspect makes it even worse. Gyokeres would come in and instantly know what his role is. So with a good pre season and if he adapts well to the league, he will very likely do well. His Championship past will help him. He just gives me the vibes of a late bloomer, like Vardy, rather than a one hit wonder.
 
I agree. And I understand your worries of having another big money flop. I think the biggest plus of Gyokeres is his past with Amorim. Hojlund seems to not being able to understand what Amorim wants from him. He's not good enough but that aspect makes it even worse. Gyokeres would come in and instantly know what his role is. So with a good pre season and if he adapts well to the league, he will very likely do well. His Championship past will help him. He just gives me the vibes of a late bloomer, like Vardy, rather than a one hit wonder.
Yes I do agree that his previous relationship should work well and he’d have an understanding of what the coach is trying to do.

I may be wrong I’m just not convinced (yet) that the player himself sees that relationship as that important.

Anyways time will tell over the coming weeks
 
Yes I do agree that his previous relationship should work well and he’d have an understanding of what the coach is trying to do.

I may be wrong I’m just not convinced (yet) that the player himself sees that relationship as that important.

Anyways time will tell over the coming weeks
Yeah you would think if that previous relationship was so strong he would give us green light for joining irrespective of whether we get Champions League
 
Yeah you would think if that previous relationship was so strong he would give us green light for joining irrespective of whether we get Champions League
It could be a significant factor without being an overwhelming one. Feel we're getting a bit binary about this.
 
Yeah you would think if that previous relationship was so strong he would give us green light for joining irrespective of whether we get Champions League

Players don’t join struggling teams/clubs when they have the option of more competitive clubs just because they get along with the manager

Generally speaking, I don’t think most people conduct their career like that
 
Players don’t join struggling teams/clubs when they have the option of more competitive clubs just because they get along with the manager

Generally speaking, I don’t think most people conduct their career like that
Yeah feels like it would take one heck of a sell of the project from Ruben to pull off this coup
 
Stylistically Gyokeres would fit in like a glove, he's exactly the type of striker we need.

It's a big step up from Portugal though, but if we can buy him (he wants the move and we have the money), then it's a chance we should take.
 
Stylistically Gyokeres would fit in like a glove, he's exactly the type of striker we need.

It's a big step up from Portugal though, but if we can buy him (he wants the move and we have the money), then it's a chance we should take.
It's a big step many players from Portugal have climbed actually. His stats are that great that he simply has a very low chance he will fail. I know he somehow failed previously in England, but he's a very different player now and would fit very well in our team. With Cunha, him and Amad/Cherki on the right, I think we would have a totally different team.
 
To be honest I don’t have a preference either way. I just disagree with those that think he’s nailed on to score lots here. For me he’s as much of a gamble as Delap just at a higher price point

Agreed.

Who was the last player that scored loads of goals in the Portuguese league that went on to be successful in a top European league?
 
Stylistically Gyokeres would fit in like a glove, he's exactly the type of striker we need.

It's a big step up from Portugal though, but if we can buy him (he wants the move and we have the money), then it's a chance we should take.

This much is certain. He is after all, an Amorim player who has demonstrated he can be very successful in Amorim's system.
 
Agreed.

Who was the last player that scored loads of goals in the Portuguese league that went on to be successful in a top European league?

Its not the league he's coming from, its the level of quality he exhibits at the individual level. If the quality of a league was relevant, players like Lewandowski, Modric, Kvaratsheilia and countless others may have never seen the light of day in bigger leagues.
 
Its not the league he's coming from, its the level of quality he exhibits at the individual level. If the quality of a league was relevant, players like Lewandowski, Modric, Kvaratsheilia and countless others may have never seen the light of day in bigger leagues.

This - as well to the fact that he's performed on the big stage in the Champions League too. He has the attributes, and isn't raw.
 
Its not the league he's coming from, its the level of quality he exhibits at the individual level. If the quality of a league was relevant, players like Lewandowski, Modric, Kvaratsheilia and countless others may have never seen the light of day in bigger leagues.

He's not playing in a high quality league though. Three years ago Darwin Nunez was the top scorer in that league, but if you look at the actual goals he scored then you can see why he failed to replicate those numbers in England. Some of the goalkeepers in that league make Onana look like a world beater!

The Premier League is arguably the strongest it's ever been now compared to other European leagues. Teams like Brighton, Bournemouth, Wolves and West Ham are far far stronger than their Portuguese equivalents.

Gyokeres is 27 in June and is yet to score a single goal in one of Europe's top leagues. The idea that he's a sure thing just isn't true at all.
 
I’d imagine Amorim would be gutted to miss out on both Gyokeres and Quenda.

But then again Amorim has played his part in the atrocious league form, so I could see him accepting a cheaper alternative.

It's not about him accepting it or not, it's just better players will have us play better, score more goals etc.
 
Its not the league he's coming from, its the level of quality he exhibits at the individual level. If the quality of a league was relevant, players like Lewandowski, Modric, Kvaratsheilia and countless others may have never seen the light of day in bigger leagues.

But how many of them were signed for £60m +? Modric went Spurs, Kvar Napoli and Lewan Dortmund... also, all under 23, not 27 60m+ fee.
 
He's not playing in a high quality league though. Three years ago Darwin Nunez was the top scorer in that league, but if you look at the actual goals he scored then you can see why he failed to replicate those numbers in England. Some of the goalkeepers in that league make Onana look like a world beater!

The Premier League is arguably the strongest it's ever been now compared to other European leagues. Teams like Brighton, Bournemouth, Wolves and West Ham are far far stronger than their Portuguese equivalents.

Gyokeres is 27 in June and is yet to score a single goal in one of Europe's top leagues. The idea that he's a sure thing just isn't true at all.

I addressed the league issue in my previous post. The quality of the player is far more important that which league they come from. That means the eye test (having watched most Sporting games this year, I can safely say he's the real deal), as well as the analytics (xG, Xa, goals scored in both the league and Europe, and the sheer number of goals).
 
But how many of them were signed for £60m +? Modric went Spurs, Kvar Napoli and Lewan Dortmund... also, all under 23, not 27 60m+ fee.

The money shouldn't be an issue from our perspective. We have a chance to land one of the world's best strikers. There's a reason Arsenal and others are also hot on his trail.
 
The money shouldn't be an issue from our perspective. We have a chance to land one of the world's best strikers. There's a reason Arsenal and others are also hot on his trail.

Yes, and there were alot clubs hot on Nunez trail... Oshimen when he was valued at 140m, Joao Felix... even Gonzalo Ramon... Arsenal being hot on a players trail doesn't mean they are the best striker... Arsenal were very hot on Murdryk too.
 
Yes, and there were alot clubs hot on Nunez trail... Oshimen when he was valued at 140m, Joao Felix... even Gonzalo Ramon... Arsenal being hot on a players trail doesn't mean they are the best striker... Arsenal were very hot on Murdryk too.

So what's your argument here ? That you know more than the clubs ?
 
Surprised how many people want him, if you go through his goals this season you wouldn't be able to name a single player in the teams he plays against - the Portuguese league is so bad. I don't think he's scored against Porto/Benfica (could be wrong), 12 of his league goals are penalties and his npXG is 20ish, large overperformance. His compilations are hilarious too, the defenders look sunday league level they go flying at every opportunity. His hattrick v Man City is so overrated too, 2 penalties and the other goal fair enough but was up against a random kid called Simpson-Pusey (where he still lost his duels). Biomechanics look average, takes ages to get his shot off I just don't see him replicating half his goals for a big PL team
We will forever run the risk of buying players with bad biomechanics until we start to do semen samples as part of the initial tapping up process.
 
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