Viktor Gyökeres | Ornstein: Arsenal in advanced talks

Sporting4Ever said:
When have you ever spent that kind of money at Sporting?
The most United payed for a Sporting player was Bruno Fernandes. Was he worth it?

Anyway, the word now is Arsenal is close to signing Sesko, so if that gets done things will finally start moving on this.
I should also point out that there's an imminent deal for Osmane Diomande to join Crystal Palace for 55 million euros, so there's even less incentive for Sporting to lower the price on a player that has 3 years left on his contract.
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No its not about Sporting, its about what the new regime need to do, walk away from a deal that is too expensive.

Paying 70m for a 27 year old ST is excessive imo.

That's true, Sporting have made enough sales not to sell for cheap and we dont need to meet the demands, there are other Strikers we should target then.
 
romufc said:
No its not about Sporting, its about what the new regime need to do, walk away from a deal that is too expensive.

Paying 70m for a 27 year old ST is excessive imo.

That's true, Sporting have made enough sales not to sell for cheap and we dont need to meet the demands, there are other Strikers we should target then.
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Of course it's about Sporting.
Let me ask you something.
Imagine United has a manager that turns things around and wins you 3 titles in 5 years.
Now imagine he's poached by another club, say Real Madrid.
And further, imagine that now Real are interested in taking away your star striker and the madridista fans are bad mouthing United because you won't sell him for cheap.

I get you're frustrated over the last decade, but maybe take into consideration that your manager probably knows what's best for his squad.
I'd also like to point out the irony of saying 70m for a 27 year old is too much after you've spent 75 for a 26 year old. Viktor is less than a year older than Cunha.
 
romufc said:
Show them that this is not the same Manutd... we do not need to spend 70m on a ST when we need to go get a GK and CM as well.
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That would be a great bargaining position if there were significantly cheaper options.
 
Sporting4Ever said:
Of course it's about Sporting.
Let me ask you something.
Imagine United has a manager that turns things around and wins you 3 titles in 5 years.
Now imagine he's poached by another club, say Real Madrid.
And further, imagine that now Real are interested in taking away your star striker and the madridista fans are bad mouthing United because you won't sell him for cheap.

I get you're frustrated over the last decade, but maybe take into consideration that your manager probably knows what's best for his squad.
I'd also like to point out the irony of saying 70m for a 27 year old is too much after you've spent 75 for a 26 year old. Viktor is less than a year older than Cunha.
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Who is bad mouthing Sporting though? The issue is not Manutd and Sporting... the issue at the moment is Gyokeres and Sporting.

One is saying there is a gentleman's agreement and the other saying no.

So for example... Ronaldo had a gentlemen's agreement with SAF to leave for 80m... and he left year later. There was no argument between Manutd and Ronaldo about the agreement.

Also.. we signed Cunha for £62m and Sporting's president has already said he will not leave for 60 + 10 =70m Euros. So his price will be more £70m.

Cunha is PL proven whereas Gyokeres is not, he has scored in a league where not many leave and do well in as strikers.
 
romufc said:
Who is bad mouthing Sporting though? The issue is not Manutd and Sporting... the issue at the moment is Gyokeres and Sporting.

One is saying there is a gentleman's agreement and the other saying no.

So for example... Ronaldo had a gentlemen's agreement with SAF to leave for 80m... and he left year later. There was no argument between Manutd and Ronaldo about the agreement.

Also.. we signed Cunha for £62m and Sporting's president has already said he will not leave for 60 + 10 =70m Euros. So his price will be more £70m.

Cunha is PL proven whereas Gyokeres is not, he has scored in a league where not many leave and do well in as strikers.
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A lot of fans are, saying Sporting should honour a deal that Sporting says it didn't make just to get a player for less than Sporting think is fair.
And my point with Cunha was just the argument that Gyökeres is too old for that price as if he's in his 30s and not in his prime. Viktor has consistently improved from year to year.

Also, we have no idea what numbers Sporting will accept. We're speculating that something like 70 + addons is the target, but it just might well be 65 + extras, heck, a flat 70 with no addons might even be enough.

Point is, people got this number in their head because of the narrative the agent has been pushing, and now blame Sporting for asking for more on a deal that more than likely has never even been made.
I mean, we're talking about a player that scored nearly 100 goals in two seasons, and who still has 3 years left on his contract. We obviously don't want to sell him, so if anyone that wants him has to match our numbers.

That being said, I have little doubt that United, and Amorim, are well aware of what Sporting is asking for, and since they don't look like they're walking away, I suspect that as soon as Centikaya fails utterly in putting Viktor in London, the deal between United and Sporting will be quick.
Although, if these Liverpool rumours are true, this might take a bit longer...
 
Sporting4Ever said:
A lot of fans are, saying Sporting should honour a deal that Sporting says it didn't make just to get a player for less than Sporting think is fair.
And my point with Cunha was just the argument that Gyökeres is too old for that price as if he's in his 30s and not in his prime. Viktor has consistently improved from year to year.

Also, we have no idea what numbers Sporting will accept. We're speculating that something like 70 + addons is the target, but it just might well be 65 + extras, heck, a flat 70 with no addons might even be enough.
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So the "gentlemen's agreement" was meant to be 60+10 million Euros. Depending on which report you read. Whether that was true or not cant be proven either way.

Is the Sporting president going to risk not being able to sell a player for the sake of 5 to 10 million? A player that apparently now wont come back and play for Sporting.

United have seemiling re-prioritized their spending by committing to Mbuermo - that may be due to Sporting price or it could be because of Gyökeres waiting on Arsenal. Either way, they knew they couldnt get Gyökeres done quickly, or at the right price, so bagged Mbuermo before other Premier League teams could.

50/50 if Arsenal will go for Gyökeres or Sesko. Which could be the major reason this is being held up.

Liverpool seems a reach.

Feels like there is a good chance that Sporting will be dealing with a pissed off player come September.

Sporting4Ever said:
Point is, people got this number in their head because of the narrative the agent has been pushing, and now blame Sporting for asking for more on a deal that more than likely has never even been made.
I mean, we're talking about a player that scored nearly 100 goals in two seasons, and who still has 3 years left on his contract. We obviously don't want to sell him, so if anyone that wants him has to match our numbers.
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There hasnt been a bid for him, so obviously he isnt worth what Sporting are holding out for. No bids at 60+10. And certainly no bids at 80m euros.

Sporting4Ever said:
That being said, I have little doubt that United, and Amorim, are well aware of what Sporting is asking for, and since they don't look like they're walking away, I suspect that as soon as Centikaya fails utterly in putting Viktor in London, the deal between United and Sporting will be quick.
Although, if these Liverpool rumours are true, this might take a bit longer...
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There is a very good chance that United cant pay another big fee, especially as we have not yet made the sales that many thought we would make. Sancho, Rashford and maybe even Antony and Garnacho will end up on loan, so no room for a 70+ mil player to be added. Especially now we have added two attacking players who scored 35 goals between them last season. That is already a huge upgrade to our front line. So maybe if we have cash left, it goes into other areas.
 
If he wants to join a club that doesn’t win things then so be it.
 
UnitedSofa said:
Is he though?

When l’equipe report things for us no one believes it and yet now he’s apparently cert to go to Arsenal.

Make it make sense!!
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L'equipe is just saying that Arsenal and the player are close to an agreement and Arsenal is his priority. They think they can get the deal done at around €70M.
 
huyn said:
L'equipe is just saying that Arsenal and the player are close to an agreement and Arsenal is his priority. They think they can get the deal done at around €70M.
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They may be proved right but I find it unlikely a French outlet suddenly has the breaking news of a PL club buying a Swedish striker from the Portuese league.
 
VP89 said:
They may be proved right but I find it unlikely a French outlet suddenly has the breaking news of a PL club buying a Swedish striker from the Portuese league.
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Gyökeres' agent is Hasan Çetinkaya, who operates a lot in France. Magnes Akliouche for instance just switched agent for Çetinkaya, and he's also an Arsenal target per this article. I dont know if they're right or not but I think it comes from the agent.
 
huyn said:
Gyökeres' agent is Hasan Çetinkaya, who operates a lot in France. Magnes Akliouche for instance just switched agent for Çetinkaya, and he's also an Arsenal target per this article. I dont know if they're right or not but I think it comes from the agent.
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Sort of plays down the credibility if it's just agent talk
 
VP89 said:
Sort of plays down the credibility if it's just agent talk
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The agent would be aware if the player is close to an agreement with a club. That's all there is to this article, nothing else we didnt already know. They sometimes miss but l'equipe is pretty reliable, they rarely bullshit.
 
There is a reason you cannot seem to lay bets on football transfers, you could make a small fortune on most transfer gossips.
 
romufc said:
No its not about Sporting, its about what the new regime need to do, walk away from a deal that is too expensive.

Paying 70m for a 27 year old ST is excessive imo.

That's true, Sporting have made enough sales not to sell for cheap and we dont need to meet the demands, there are other Strikers we should target then.
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How is it "excessive" when he is literally entering his prime? We need an experienced striker in his prime and Gyokeres meets that player profile. We already tried with younger strikers and it's been a complete disaster.

All of our younger players have been utter sheite bar Yoro. Buying younger players only makes sense if they are generational talents or whatnot. Buying proven and "experienced" players in their prime like Cunha, Mbuemo and Gyokeres makes much more sense than forcing the likes of Holjund, Zirkzee, Garnacho (overhyped and mid "young" players with already a lot of experience).
 
huyn said:
The agent would be aware if the player is close to an agreement with a club. That's all there is to this article, nothing else we didnt already know. They sometimes miss but l'equipe is pretty reliable, they rarely bullshit.
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The agent also have a vested interest in saying things are closer than they are. We see this happen quite often.
 
VP89 said:
The agent also have a vested interest in saying things are closer than they are. We see this happen quite often.
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Of course until we get confirmation or an official announcement you can't take anything at face value but it just confirms what we already know, he prefers Arsenal.
 
huyn said:
Of course until we get confirmation or an official announcement you can't take anything at face value but it just confirms what we already know, he prefers Arsenal.
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We know this already. It's the fee agreement or advancement from arsenal side which I'm raising an eyebrow on. They are clearly only getting agent info which doesn't fill me with confidence
 
You'd think after the Harry Kane dilemma, players and their agents would know better than to rely on verbal gentleman's agreements
 
He will definately score goals next season, question is if it's for you guys or for Gunners.
He wants CL and to play for titles and that's more of a big project for UTD as to Arsenal right now. Sad, I would wanna see him prove to be a success in Manchester.
 
If he chooses Arsenal then you simply have to respect his choice, I mean who would you choose? an unstable club that has just finished 15th, or a stable club that is challenging for titles and playing in the Champions League, sadly for us it's a no brainer to be fair.
 
It's easy to get swayed by numbers. Gyokeres numbers are just staggering, even for Portugal. What I think is more important is to look closely at his skill set and how he works for the team on and off the ball. I think his skill sets are definitely transferable to the PL because he does a lot on and off the ball that would obviously fit in well in an Amorim team, but in terms of fees one has to look at the opportunity cost of going for someone else. A 27 year old, with little resale value after a 4-5 year deal, for 70m, with no top league track record, is a gamble. And one that should be reflected in the price.

I do think he would be a good player for a PL club, a very good one potentially, but there's no point saying there isn't an element to gamble in this. At 50m I think it starts to become risk tolerant, but at 70m I start to look at other options. 60m seems to be the sort of threshold you have to now cross to get a proven PL talent, or a younger talent of extremely high potential. At 70m you are getting into the extraordinary potential or guaranteed performance category, neither of which fits Gyokeres. A player like Woltemade it potentially going for around 40m (pounds) according to Bayern's valuation, or 50m (BPS) according to Stuttgart's. I think that is a better benchmark for Gyokeres value, at the top end of the Woltemade scale (50m BPS).

Ekitike is another option, being touted at between 68m and 85m (BPS). At 70m pounds I would rather Ekitike than Gyokeres, but both are significantly overpriced for what their track record actually is. A common theme in the market. There are a number of decent to good strikers on the market this summer, Ekitike, Woltemade, Vlahovic, Osimhen, Gyokeres, Duran, Sesko, but virtually all - perhaps aside from Woltemade - are very overpriced either in terms of fees or wages. Of all those listed, Ekitike is the most excited and well rounded prospect - but has no guarantee of success - and probably only Osimhen offers as close as you can get to a guaranteed elite level performer. But his wages are bonkers.

If United are going to look at this as a three year project, then perhaps we need to really dig into the data and try and unearth a future star who hasn't hit the headlines yet. A couple of years ago players like Ekitike, Woltemade, Gyokeres, and Sesko could have all been had for very reasonable - or even low - fees. I just don't see the value in the market right now for strikers. At 50m, I'd take any of those listed. At 70-80m I don't think I would take any. I'd look at developing my own star and giving the minutes to Zirkzee. With Cunha, Mbeumo, and Amad all around him, I think his role as a facilitator could be very good this year.

Paying massive money for Gyokeres or any of the players listed is just a repeat of past mistakes.
 
simonhch said:
It's easy to get swayed by numbers. Gyokeres numbers are just staggering, even for Portugal. What I think is more important is to look closely at his skill set and how he works for the team on and off the ball. I think his skill sets are definitely transferable to the PL because he does a lot on and off the ball that would obviously fit in well in an Amorim team, but in terms of fees one has to look at the opportunity cost of going for someone else. A 27 year old, with little resale value after a 4-5 year deal, for 70m, with no top league track record, is a gamble. And one that should be reflected in the price.

I do think he would be a good player for a PL club, a very good one potentially, but there's no point saying there isn't an element to gamble in this. At 50m I think it starts to become risk tolerant, but at 70m I start to look at other options. 60m seems to be the sort of threshold you have to now cross to get a proven PL talent, or a younger talent of extremely high potential. At 70m you are getting into the extraordinary potential or guaranteed performance category, neither of which fits Gyokeres. A player like Woltemade it potentially going for around 40m (pounds) according to Bayern's valuation, or 50m (BPS) according to Stuttgart's. I think that is a better benchmark for Gyokeres value, at the top end of the Woltemade scale (50m BPS).

Ekitike is another option, being touted at between 68m and 85m (BPS). At 70m pounds I would rather Ekitike than Gyokeres, but both are significantly overpriced for what their track record actually is. A common theme in the market. There are a number of decent to good strikers on the market this summer, Ekitike, Woltemade, Vlahovic, Osimhen, Gyokeres, Duran, Sesko, but virtually all - perhaps aside from Woltemade - are very overpriced either in terms of fees or wages. Of all those listed, Ekitike is the most excited and well rounded prospect - but has no guarantee of success - and probably only Osimhen offers as close as you can get to a guaranteed elite level performer. But his wages are bonkers.

If United are going to look at this as a three year project, then perhaps we need to really dig into the data and try and unearth a future star who hasn't hit the headlines yet. A couple of years ago players like Ekitike, Woltemade, Gyokeres, and Sesko could have all been had for very reasonable - or even low - fees. I just don't see the value in the market right now for strikers. At 50m, I'd take any of those listed. At 70-80m I don't think I would take any. I'd look at developing my own star and giving the minutes to Zirkzee. With Cunha, Mbeumo, and Amad all around him, I think his role as a facilitator could be very good this year.

Paying massive money for Gyokeres or any of the players listed is just a repeat of past mistakes.
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This is a well written post but what is £20-£30 million (the gap between your £50 million value and £70-80 million overpriced) if it gets you top 4, a chance at silverware and puts you back on track.

And the idea of resale is a red herring. When we were winning all the time we didn't sell our good players. So if he were successful no one would care about resale. And we can see from Sancho that buying young doesn't guarantee a resale value if the player doesn't do well. Even if you think of Ekitike PSG took a hit after one year.
 
Every two hours we seem to make progress on Gyokeres and Sesko at the same time.
Berta is a sick man, he's going to sign both on August 31th for 10M.
 
Seems like a nonsense update. 70m euros has been explicitly said to be not enough by the president, but now Arsenal are close to a deal at that amount? I don't buy it.
 
welshwingwizard said:
This is a well written post but what is £20-£30 million (the gap between your £50 million value and £70-80 million overpriced) if it gets you top 4, a chance at silverware and puts you back on track.

And the idea of resale is a red herring. When we were winning all the time we didn't sell our good players. So if he were successful no one would care about resale. And we can see from Sancho that buying young doesn't guarantee a resale value if the player doesn't do well. Even if you think of Ekitike PSG took a hit after one year.
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I think it is clear that what he is saying is that none of the strikers in question come with a guarantee of success and that is the threshold for paying that sort of money for a player or at least it should be. We are cash strapped and hurting from some of the worst transfer busines in the history of the league over the past 5 seasons, we cannot spend that type of money to take a gamble. If we were already in the CL spots and one player from a true challenge then maybe the gamble is worth it but for where we are it is too big a risk. We pay big salaries to scouts and spend vast sums on data to back up their assessments, why even bother with that expense if we are only going to spend big fees on the same 5 names everyone else is chasing? We have got to be smart enough to find the next Gyokeres or Osimhen before their value hits that level.
 
awop said:
Every two hours we seem to make progress on Gyokeres and Sesko at the same time.
Berta is a sick man, he's going to sign both on August 31th for 10M.
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and wake up to Madueke and Jackson on loan ..
 
Lash said:
Seems like a nonsense update. 70m euros has been explicitly said to be not enough by the president, but now Arsenal are close to a deal at that amount? I don't buy it.
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That price will go down, one way or the other, regardless of what the club president says. There hasn't been a player from the Portuguese league that has demanded such a fee at that age. Granted, Gyokeres has the numbers behind him and you can make a case that there hasnt been such a high profile player, so that we can compare. He has also publicly stated that he has a club preference, wants to leave, and is not even willing to play for Sporting anymore.
 
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