Viktor Gyökeres | Ornstein: Deal worth €63.5m guaranteed + €10m add-ons. Agent waives fee

I dont think Gyokeres is all that. His stats are padded by the poor quality of the Portuguese league and Porto and Benfica.

The fact both those clubs are struggling at the CWC highlights this.

There must be other targets?
 
I dont think Gyokeres is all that. His stats are padded by the poor quality of the Portuguese league and Porto and Benfica.

The fact both those clubs are struggling at the CWC highlights this.

There must be other targets?

Which of Gyokeres' attributes are you looking at to make that decision?

Or are you just using the strength of league to make your judgment?
 
I dont think Gyokeres is all that. His stats are padded by the poor quality of the Portuguese league and Porto and Benfica.

The fact both those clubs are struggling at the CWC highlights this.

There must be other targets?
That means Jack shit.
 
I dont think Gyokeres is all that. His stats are padded by the poor quality of the Portuguese league and Porto and Benfica.

The fact both those clubs are struggling at the CWC highlights this.

There must be other targets?
Whatever the other arguments are for and against Gyokeres there is no point using the CWC as any kind of point.
 
I worry he could be another kezman. Scoring at a ridiculous rate but wouldn't get most of them in a tougher league
 
I dont think Gyokeres is all that. His stats are padded by the poor quality of the Portuguese league and Porto and Benfica.

The fact both those clubs are struggling at the CWC highlights this.

There must be other targets?

About 80% of this thread is made up of this debate!

I very much agree with you. Benfica have a 37 year old Otimendi at the heart of their defence and he hasn't been up to English Premier League standards for over five years.
 
Which of Gyokeres' attributes are you looking at to make that decision?

Or are you just using the strength of league to make your judgment?

People keep saying this but until he has used those attributes against some of the best defenders in Europe week in week out, it's impossible to tell.

Very few players arive in the Premier League at 27 and become top players off the back of playing in mid tier European league's though.

It feels like exactly the type of mistake we've made time and time before. Signing a player because he looked good for a manager in an inferior league or signing someone that the majority of the fan base want to sign.
 
Price will drop. He will move.
It'll have to.

Nobody is paying 80million for an unproven 27 year old. Best they'll get is 45+ 15 in add ons. And he's still a big gamble at that price, with zero re-sell value.

This is their one chance to get some money from him.
 
Can we hijack that Sesko deal instead? I think he's the dog.
Don't see how you could afford it if they insist on 80M€. It's getting silly now, just get one of them and work on everything else that needs to be fixed. :boring:
 
People keep saying this but until he has used those attributes against some of the best defenders in Europe week in week out, it's impossible to tell.

My problem is the baseline level of analysis on him and other players. Very few want to talk about what he is good/bad at.

Let say Haarland came to the PL from Portugal. He scored a hatful in Portugal and broke records in the PL like he did for City.
Because he was the "last cab off the rank" im sure the narrative on Gyökeres would have been very different.

But the one that came before was Nunez so it is assumed that Gyökeres would flop.

Go back to when we signed Hojlund. The narrative was very different. It was on the back of Haarland doing so well at City, so the narrative was that United have their own big Scandinavian forward, so what could go wrong?

If you watch Nunez, he is actually a good player in many aspects. Hold up is good. Gives defenders a tough time. Makes really good runs, gets in behind and his movement is good. He has even scored some great goals. Problem is, he fluffs his lines quite often which is why his xG is so far in the negative. He isn't getting outmuscled by defenders and he has more than enough pace, power and time on the ball.

That could be a confidence thing, it could be pressure. Who knows? But does it mean that Gyökeres will suffer the same fate and all of a sudden start missing sitters like Nunez has?

I would hope that clubs are analyzing the players attributes rather than just looking at prior players from

And why do we just knock forwards from the Portuguese league because of strength of opponent? Were people doing this for all the great midfielders that have come from Portugal?

Very few players arive in the Premier League at 27 and become top players off the back of playing in mid tier European league's though.

Very few players have taken Gyökeres path.

In the same way very few players took the Jamie Vardy path. He won the PL Golden Boot at age 33.

Just accept that not every players comes via the academy route.

It feels like exactly the type of mistake we've made time and time before. Signing a player because he looked good for a manager in an inferior league or signing someone that the majority of the fan base want to sign.

I dont think we have signed players just because the fan base wanted them.

And again, just because Ten Hag signed some duds from former clubs, doesn't mean Amorim will. The two things are not interlinked.
 
About 80% of this thread is made up of this debate!

I very much agree with you. Benfica have a 37 year old Otimendi at the heart of their defence and he hasn't been up to English Premier League standards for over five years.

Otamendi was keeping Martinez out of the Argentina team.
 
Why Kezman and not Suarez, who also scored a lot before joining Pool and. continued at Pool.
Because I think suarez, and a bit like laarson up at celtic scored the type of top quality goals you would score anywhere, regardless of defender/keeper. Gyokeres reminds me of kezman, where he is breaking all sorts of records but you watch the goals and think that wouldn't happen at the top level. I may be wrong, it's just a big concern
 
Because I think suarez, and a bit like laarson up at celtic scored the type of top quality goals you would score anywhere, regardless of defender/keeper. Gyokeres reminds me of kezman, where he is breaking all sorts of records but you watch the goals and think that wouldn't happen at the top level. I may be wrong, it's just a big concern
It's a fair point to make. You could also cite an Afonso Alves, but, the only way we will ever know is when/if he makes the step up. Prior to that, it's basically shouting at the sea.
 
Romano reporting that he's not expected to return to training - so it looks like the relationship between him and Sporting is broken or at the very least is getting close to that. If Arsenal opt for Sesko, it sounds like Gyokores may be available and potentially at a slightly cheaper price too. Still yet to be seen what Chelsea and Liverpool are planning to do regarding their number 9, so I don't think it's necessarily a free run at him if Arsenal get Sesko.
 
Romano reporting that he's not expected to return to training - so it looks like the relationship between him and Sporting is broken or at the very least is getting close to that. If Arsenal opt for Sesko, it sounds like Gyokores may be available and potentially at a slightly cheaper price too. Still yet to be seen what Chelsea and Liverpool are planning to do regarding their number 9, so I don't think it's necessarily a free run at him if Arsenal get Sesko.
Will go to Arsenal when Sesko price is too high
 
Because I think suarez, and a bit like laarson up at celtic scored the type of top quality goals you would score anywhere, regardless of defender/keeper. Gyokeres reminds me of kezman, where he is breaking all sorts of records but you watch the goals and think that wouldn't happen at the top level. I may be wrong, it's just a big concern
I have this precise concern.

He's a weird one as I'd say he only has two attributes where he's top drawer, running into channels and finishing from fairly close range where he has a little bit of space.

I'm less familiar with United, but I know Arsenal have really struggled with well organised mid-blocks (with Newcastle being the best example of this) and Gyokeres wouldn't help us with that at all.

On the other hand, top teams often trust themselves to give you a little more space. We created a lot of chances against Liverpool in our games last season and had significantly higher xG that PSG in our tie with them (5.11 | 3.08). Gyokeres would have been incredibly useful in those games. Plus, we didn't take enough points against some of the smaller teams in the league and Gyokeres would also be useful in improving that.

What makes Gyokeres such an odd player is that I think he's both a big game player and flat-track bully. However, he may struggle with teams in the middle (well-coached, midtable, PL teams) - which wpuld obviously the majority of the opposition for either United or Arsenal.
 
I have this precise concern.

He's a weird one as I'd say he only has two attributes where he's top drawer, running into channels and finishing from fairly close range where he has a little bit of space.

I'm less familiar with United, but I know Arsenal have really struggled with well organised mid-blocks (with Newcastle being the best example of this) and Gyokeres wouldn't help us with that at all.

On the other hand, top teams often trust themselves to give you a little more space. We created a lot of chances against Liverpool in our games last season and had significantly higher xG that PSG in our tie with them (5.11 | 3.08). Gyokeres would have been incredibly useful in those games. Plus, we didn't take enough points against some of the smaller teams in the league and Gyokeres would also be useful in improving that.

What makes Gyokeres such an odd player is that I think he's both a big game player and flat-track bully. However, he may struggle with teams in the middle (well-coached, midtable, PL teams) - which wpuld obviously the majority of the opposition for either United or Arsenal.
Who would you prefer out of Sesko and Gyokeres? And maybe even Osimhen and Ekitike?
 
Gyökeres scored over twice as many goals as everyone else in the league this season. Twenty goals more than the guys behind him. Sure it's the Portuguese league, but I still think he's very special.
 
Who would you prefer out of Sesko and Gyokeres? And maybe even Osimhen and Ekitike?
Isak : )

But I think Sesko suits us best. However, if the reporting is true, he's not all that excited about joining us. Unlike Gyokeres.

Osimhen is the most proven of all those options. And Ekitike looks great, but is just as much as a gamble as Sesko. And seeing as they seem to be pretty much the same price, I'd probably lean towards the player our recruitment team has been following for longer.
 
Romano reporting that he's not expected to return to training - so it looks like the relationship between him and Sporting is broken or at the very least is getting close to that. If Arsenal opt for Sesko, it sounds like Gyokores may be available and potentially at a slightly cheaper price too. Still yet to be seen what Chelsea and Liverpool are planning to do regarding their number 9, so I don't think it's necessarily a free run at him if Arsenal get Sesko.

I don't think he's on the radar of either Chelsea or Liverpool. He's not good enough and doesn't fit the profile of players they go for.
 
He'd score a bucketloads in the Prem. Underrated by many.
I'm sure he would score goals. However, it's not just the strength of the league. It's the fact that a third of his goals were penalties. Seeing as both United and Arsenal have decent penalty takers, those aren't goals that are being added to a team.

A recent example of this is Ivan Toney. He scored 20+ league goals and many couldn't understand why Arsenal hadn't snapped him up. A third of his goals were penalties, too. His non-penalty goal rate was was pretty similar to Nketiah's. And now he's playing in Saudi.
 
I'm sure he would score goals. However, it's not just the strength of the league. It's the fact that a third of his goals were penalties. Seeing as both United and Arsenal have decent penalty takers, those aren't goals that are being added to a team.

A recent example of this is Ivan Toney. He scored 20+ league goals and many couldn't understand why Arsenal hadn't snapped him up. A third of his goals were penalties, too. His non-penalty goal rate was was pretty similar to Nketiah's. And now he's playing in Saudi.
Yeah, 12 penalties scored in the league. So just the 27 league goals in 33 games. That's good enough for me.
 
Yeah, 12 penalties scored in the league. So just the 27 league goals in 33 games. That's good enough for me.
And obviously if he scored at that rate in the PL it would be good enough for me. I don't think anybody is arguing that. It just highly unlikely.
 
And obviously if he scored at that rate in the PL it would be good enough for me. I don't think anybody is arguing that. It just highly unlikely.
I wouldn't expect him to hit 27 league goals in the Prem next season. I think he's perfectly capable of 20 though. He creates so many chances for himself via his movement, so it won't be a case of 'he won't get those chances in the Prem'. He's a very good finisher, so if he as a player and you as a team, can find a way for him to generate a high xG, he will deliver close to that in reality. Unlike someone like Darwin Nunez who generates a respectable number of expected goals, but cannot finish his dinner.
 
Gyökeres scored over twice as many goals as everyone else in the league this season. Twenty goals more than the guys behind him. Sure it's the Portuguese league, but I still think he's very special.
He scored one more goal (39) as the next two players, Samu (19) and Pavlidis (19), combined.

Plus, I know I'm biased, but it should be pointed out that Sporting isn't a club that regularly wins like we've been doing recently.
It's a lot easier to show yourself to the top clubs if you play for any of the rivals, benfica especially.
 
I wouldn't expect him to hit 27 league goals in the Prem next season. I think he's perfectly capable of 20 though. He creates so many chances for himself via his movement, so it won't be a case of 'he won't get those chances in the Prem'. He's a very good finisher, so if he as a player and you as a team, can find a way for him to generate a high xG, he will deliver close to that in reality.

Finally, someone looking at the attributes of the player, rather than making comparisons to players who played in the Portuguese league prior.

Unlike someone like Darwin Nunez who generates a respectable number of expected goals, but cannot finish his dinner.

Nunez puts himself in great positions, just as Gyökeres does.

Only difference is that for some reason Nunez now misses a boat load of chances. And that is not because the PL is faster, stronger etc because Nunez is strong and fast enough. The argument would stand up if Nunez wasn't able to get in positions, or if he was getting outmuscled or out paced.

So in order for peoples theory to be correct, Gyökeres needs to leave his shooting boots, his brain and his nerves back in Portugal, like Nunez has apparently done.
 
Finally, someone looking at the attributes of the player, rather than making comparisons to players who played in the Portuguese league prior.
I think plenty of people have been speaking about his attributes as a player. In fact, I brought up that very attribute earlier today…
He's a weird one as I'd say he only has two attributes where he's top drawer, running into channels and finishing from fairly close range where he has a little bit of space.

The difference is, I don’t think making good runs really qualifies as making a chance for yourself and the spaces he runs into in the Portuguese league simply won’t be there against the vast majority of PL teams.

If Arsenal sign him I would love to be wrong and watch him fire us to the title. And also, we do have Havertz who is a completely different style, so we do have options if Gyokeres ends up not suiting certain opposition.
 
I think plenty of people have been speaking about his attributes as a player. In fact, I brought up that very attribute earlier today…


The difference is, I don’t think making good runs really qualifies as making a chance for yourself and the spaces he runs into in the Portuguese league simply won’t be there against the vast majority of PL teams.

If Arsenal sign him I would love to be wrong and watch him fire us to the title. And also, we do have Havertz who is a completely different style, so we do have options if Gyokeres ends up not suiting certain opposition.

Spot on.

He looks like the sort of striker that West Ham sign, then struggles then they go back to playing Antonio up front!