Viktor Gyökeres

Cloud7 said:
Do you really think fanbase or “how big is the club” actually matters to a club outside of the generic statements the players are forced to give :lol: That’s just circlejerk stuff that fans use to try to one up each other.

All that matters for a player is trophies and money. Are we in a better position than Arsenal to offer the chance to win big trophies in the near future? Based on the current situation the answer is no. Theres no shame in saying that or any reason to pretend otherwise.
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It absolutely matters to players. They monetise their popularity throughout sponsorship revenue and receive a share of it from their clubs. Their popularity also means they can continue to be relevant to sponsors even after retirement etc.
 
Cloud7 said:
Do you really think fanbase or “how big is the club” actually matters to a club outside of the generic statements the players are forced to give :lol: That’s just circlejerk stuff that fans use to try to one up each other.

All that matters for a player is trophies and money. Are we in a better position than Arsenal to offer the chance to win big trophies in the near future? Based on the current situation the answer is no. Theres no shame in saying that or any reason to pretend otherwise.
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As mentioned above, yes it absolutely does matter when a clubs worldwide fanbase is 5x other clubs = 5x more revenue from advertising and building a personal brand that is 5x more recognisable and profitable
 
MaMa given red said:
That is a pretty wild take!

Where does the idea that Arsenal have peaked come from?

They are going to finish second whereas we are unlikely to finish in the top half!

I'd argue that Arsenal actually look stronger than 12 months ago with the emergence of Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly. They just need a bit more depth to their mostly young squad and they will likely be favourites to win the league next season.
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Arteta is in his 6th season with little to show for himself, and with City probably roaring back next year and Liverpool improving their squad as well, there's no reason to believe Arsenal will have enough to finish above 2nd.
 
Raoul said:
Arteta is in his 6th season with little to show for himself, and with City probably roaring back next year and Liverpool improving their squad as well, there's no reason to believe Arsenal will have enough to finish above 2nd.
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They have finished second three years in a row. City could just as easily be punished for the charges and Liverpool could fall apart without Trent, Salah and Van Dijk.

I think if Arsenal just add Gyökeres and Zubimendi in the summer they win the league next season.
 
MaMa given red said:
They have finished second three years in a row. City could just as easily be punished for the charges and Liverpool could fall apart without Trent, Salah and Van Dijk.

I think if Arsenal just add Gyökeres and Zubimendi in the summer they win the league next season.
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Sure, if we're relying on City being penalized then I suppose many clubs have a chance to move up. But in purely football terms, Arteta hasn't demonstrated he has what it takes to win a league. I agree that they need a striker almost as much as we do, but once Amorim buys one, we will be right back in the top 4 mix, which won't bode well for the likes of Arsenal, Forest, and Chelsea's chances win the league.
 
Raoul said:
Sure, if we're relying on City being penalized then I suppose many clubs have a chance to move up. But in purely football terms, Arteta hasn't demonstrated he has what it takes to win a league. I agree that they need a striker almost as much as we do, but once Amorim buys one, we will be right back in the top 4 mix, which won't bode well for the likes of Arsenal, Forest, and Chelsea's chances win the league.
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Let's be honest, we won't buy Amorim's first choice, probably not the second or third either. Arsenal on the other hand will buy a top, experienced striker.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
There are a lot of rational, considered fans around.

I do think there needs to be an element of realism and understanding of where United currently are as a club. But also, that this can change quickly - and history is littered with clubs that have turned things around significantly. But those clubs had a plan, and a strategy.

That’s the tragedy of where we are. Despite the Glazers, when SAF left we won the league by 13 points, but there was no plan. United were already behind the curve.

That the club has outspent almost every other club, and gone backwards just shows that throwing money around is not the way to get success.

There is of course a clear correlation between transfer spend and success - but those clubs who have been successful in the last 13 years had a strategy.

We need to build the playing squad. It’s still a patchwork of different ideologies, and players who are not suited to the club, or even each other.

I love a good striker and our options currently are poor, but so are the fundamentals that would allow a good striker to flourish. We seem to be sorting out the back line, and good teams build on that - let’s remember we were being pelted with 25-40 shots a game from the opposition. Doesn’t matter if you have prime Shearer at the other end of the basics aren’t there.
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Agree 100%

Sign of just how shit Woodward and his team of idiots were that we couldn't even spend our way into success.

Oh and we were behind the curve well before 2013. I'd say 2010 is where we lost our lustre and SAF just carried us through
 
red_de_pologne said:
Let's be honest, we won't buy Amorim's first choice, probably not the second or third either. Arsenal on the other hand will buy a top, experienced striker.
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That's not being honest, that's simply beginning with a worst case gloom and doom scenario. We've been linked with Osimhen, Gyokeres, and a few others, so there's a decent chance we wind up with one of them.
 
Raoul said:
That's not being honest, that's simply beginning with a worst case gloom and doom scenario. We've been linked with Osimhen, Gyokeres, and a few others, so there's a decent chance we end up with one of them.
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We're mostly linked with Delap really. You can of course believe what you want, but my guess is we're only buying players with resale value after 3-4 seasons. Wasn't there basically (what seemed like) a club brief we're not in for Gyokeres because of his age/cost a couple months ago? Osmihen - Garnacho swap deal makes no sense in terms of PSR.
 
awop said:
I very much doubt we do all 3. Zubimendi and Gyokeres are the more likely but Williams sounds more like Arteta's dream than reality. Those 2 are 130M and we'll have to sign the annual GK, CB and LB once we move on from Neto, Kiwior and Zinchenko. Martinelli/Trossard for another season would not shock me.
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I think we'll certainly target all 3 positions. We are clearly trying to sign Zubimendi, with Jorginho and Partey leaving that makes sense.

We will clearly target a forward because with Jesus likely not fit again this calendar year we are very short in that.

I think we will target a left winger as well because it's an area that can be improved upon, and Trossard has 12 months to go, and we were hoping to sign Williams last summer but he chose to stay another season. Whether we can convince him to move this summer I'm not sure.

I think defenders will depend on Zinchenko and Kiwior leaving.
 
red_de_pologne said:
We're mostly linked with Delap really. You can of course believe what you want, but my guess is we're only buying players with resale value after 3-4 seasons. Wasn't there basically (what seemed like) a club brief we're not in for Gyokeres because of his age/cost a couple months ago? Osmihen - Garnacho swap deal makes no sense in terms of PSR.
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That's not true at all. We've been linked with most of the players who have threads in the transfer forum. That's why they have their own threads.

As for our transfers, Ratcliffe said in his recent BBC interview that we already have a transfer budget in place and if we want a higher one, we simply have to sell a few players, which was already widely known. Therefore everyone from Rashford to Antony to Sancho and beyond will move this summer. Given that striker is a big priority, we shouldn't have any difficulty finding the right player. I suspect Amorim, Wilcox, and Berada have already identified him and are preparing a deal now.
 
Raoul said:
That's not being honest, that's simply beginning with a worst case gloom and doom scenario. We've been linked with Osimhen, Gyokeres, and a few others, so there's a decent chance we wind up with one of them.
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No I think it is honest looking at the supply and demand. Liverpool have stated they are going to buy a striker and move out Nunez, they might buy more than one considering Diaz is heavily rumoured to be joining Barca and Salah may yet opt to leave. Arsenal have to buy a striker and again may even buy two players at the position considering the lack of depth that has scuppered them 2 years running. Chelsea have been open about wanting to add a striker also and this being Chelsea that could mean 1 signing or 5, who knows.

That is 3 of the current top 4 in the PL looking to add at least 1 striker this summer, all have greater financial muscle than us at the moment and will be able to offer a more stable environment with CL football. You can probably add Villa, Newcastle and Spurs as clubs that will be competing with us too. Osimhen and Gyokeres are the only 2 known quantities out there and so we are operating at a big disadvantage. We can close that gap significantly by winning the Europa League and getting CL football for next season as this will give us the cash on hand and the prestige needed to land a big signing.

If we don't win the Europa we are going to have to accept that our reality is that we won't even be in the running for the top names this summer and we are going to have to hope that our scouts know something that we don't and can find us a decent forward that is not even on anyones radar right now.
 
Raoul said:
That's not true at all. We've been linked with most of the players who have threads in the transfer forum. That's why they have their own threads.

As for our transfers, Ratcliffe said in his recent BBC interview that we already have a transfer budget in place and if we want a higher one, we simply have to sell a few players, which was already widely known. Therefore everyone from Rashford to Antony to Sancho and beyond will move this summer. Given that striker is a big priority, we shouldn't have any difficulty finding the right player. I suspect Amorim, Wilcox, and Berada have already identified him and are preparing a deal now.
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Yes, but it won't be a 70 million 26-27 years old striker.

We're linked to hundreds of players, doesn't mean there's a legitimate link.
 
red_de_pologne said:
Yes, but it won't be a 70 million 26-27 years old striker.

We're linked to hundreds of players, doesn't mean there's a legitimate link.
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That makes no sense at all. We just spent more than that on an unaccomplished 20 year old striker who scored 10 goals in Italy. Gyokeres and Osimhen are goal machines who could easily go for much higher fees. We would be getting either at a significant bargain if they go for 65m euros
 
Raoul said:
That makes no sense at all. We just spent more than that on an unaccomplished 20 year old striker who scored 10 goals in Italy. Gyokeres and Osimhen are goal machines who could easily go for much higher fees. We would be getting either at a significant bargain if they go for 65m euros
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It is debatable whether Osimhen is a goal machine considering his scoring record in France and Italy, one season over 20 goals in all competitions out of six played. I think he is fools gold to be honest and would struggle to hit double figures in the Premier League, even in Turkey his stats are being grossly inflated by the high number of penalties he has taken.
 
Gandalf said:
No I think it is honest looking at the supply and demand. Liverpool have stated they are going to buy a striker and move out Nunez, they might buy more than one considering Diaz is heavily rumoured to be joining Barca and Salah may yet opt to leave. Arsenal have to buy a striker and again may even buy two players at the position considering the lack of depth that has scuppered them 2 years running. Chelsea have been open about wanting to add a striker also and this being Chelsea that could mean 1 signing or 5, who knows.

That is 3 of the current top 4 in the PL looking to add at least 1 striker this summer, all have greater financial muscle than us at the moment and will be able to offer a more stable environment with CL football. You can probably add Villa, Newcastle and Spurs as clubs that will be competing with us too. Osimhen and Gyokeres are the only 2 known quantities out there and so we are operating at a big disadvantage. We can close that gap significantly by winning the Europa League and getting CL football for next season as this will give us the cash on hand and the prestige needed to land a big signing.

If we don't win the Europa we are going to have to accept that our reality is that we won't even be in the running for the top names this summer and we are going to have to hope that our scouts know something that we don't and can find us a decent forward that is not even on anyones radar right now.
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I agree that Arsenal and United will prioritize a striker, which is why i think Gyokeres and Osimhen will wind up with either club. But I don't buy the idea that we would lose out because we're not in the CL. Ultimately, most players currently in their prime years will have grown up watching United and view us as an attractive destination.
 
Gandalf said:
It is debatable whether Osimhen is a goal machine considering his scoring record in France and Italy, one season over 20 goals in all competitions out of six played. I think he is fools gold to be honest and would struggle to hit double figures in the Premier League, even in Turkey his stats are being grossly inflated by the high number of penalties he has taken.
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He scored them in Italy and Turkey. No one is expecting these guys to score a goal a game in England, but both are capable of 25-30 goals if they played with the level of service that larger PL clubs can offer.
 
Raoul said:
That makes no sense at all. We just spent more than that on an unaccomplished 20 year old striker who scored 10 goals in Italy. Gyokeres and Osimhen are goal machines who could easily go for much higher fees. We would be getting either at a significant bargain if they go for 65m euros
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Not under INEOS we didn't. I would love us to get Gyokeres but there's a) our financial situation b) strong competition for him (Arsenal heavy interest per Ornstein) c) out "strategy" to buy young players to develop who will retain resale value after playing for us.
 
red_de_pologne said:
Not under INEOS we didn't. I would love us to get Gyokeres but there's a) our financial situation b) strong competition for him (Arsenal heavy interest per Ornstein) c) out "strategy" to buy young players to develop who will retain resale value after playing for us.
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That's not accurate.

- We don't actually know what the finances are like. For all we know, the club have been talking down our spending power to gain leverage in future transfer negotiations. Previously, clubs exacted the Untied tax when dealing with us. Now, they won't have the ability to extort us given Ratcliffe's widely publicized austerity comments. Either way, we don't know the true numbers and transfer targets, so there's no use in speculating that we can't afford someone.

- Yes, Gyokeres could go to Arsenal. But he could just as easily go to United, with Osimhen going to the other. If both cost roughly the same, I like our chances with Gyokeres because he and Amorim know each other well and Gyok has already demonstrated he can thrive within Amorim's system, which is a massive plus in his regard that shouldn't go unnoticed.

- As for buying young players, nowhere was it stated we will only buy young players in the future. More likely, its part of a long term strategy to scout and buy younger players and develop them instead of having them develop elsewhere only to have us pay big transfer fees once their stars. No one said we wouldn't be buying top players as part of a near term strategy to get the club back in contention.
 
Raoul said:
He scored them in Italy and Turkey. No one is expecting these guys to score a goal a game in England, but both are capable of 25-30 goals if they played with the level of service that larger PL clubs can offer.
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In the case of Osimhen I just do not agree sorry. He has scored more than 20 goals just once when playing in a top 5 league and he spent 6 seasons doing so. This is not even league goals either, he has only scored more than 20 goals in all competitions once. Gyokeres may well be the answer to our prayers but if we are going off someone having one prolific season in Serie A then we might as well sign Tammy Abraham from Roma.
 
Gandalf said:
In the case of Osimhen I just do not agree sorry. He has scored more than 20 goals just once when playing in a top 5 league and he spent 6 seasons doing so. This is not even league goals either, he has only scored more than 20 goals in all competitions once. Gyokeres may well be the answer to our prayers but if we are going off someone having one prolific season in Serie A then we might as well sign Tammy Abraham from Roma.
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I wouldn't worry about the top 5 league thing, otherwise players like Lewandowski, Modric, Kvaratskhelia, and countless others who once came from lower leagues, would never see the light of day at bigger clubs. We bought Hojlund from one of the so called top 5 leagues and he's been woefully ineffective. Best thing to do is watch their actual matches and let your eyes decide for you. I've watched a fair number of Sporting games before and after Amorim left them, and have seen consistent quality from Gyokeres. He probably wouldn't be peak RvN, but he's got a lot of goals in him, which is by far our biggest problem.
 
Raoul said:
I wouldn't worry about the top 5 league thing, otherwise players like Lewandowski, Modric, Kvaratskhelia, and countless others who once came from lower leagues, would never see the light of day at bigger clubs. We bought Hojlund from one of the so called top 5 leagues and he's been woefully ineffective. Best thing to do is watch their actual matches and let your eyes decide for you. I've watched a fair number of Sporting games before and after Amorim left them, and have seen consistent quality from Gyokeres. He probably wouldn't be peak RvN, but he's got a lot of goals in him, which is by far our biggest problem.
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I totally agree with you on Gyokeres, my issue is solely with Osimhen who is just wildly overrated by some based on one good season.
 
So that's 31 goals, the next top scorer in that league has 16. Just far too good for the league.
 
He makes it look easy to get shots away. He creates for himself. That’s what we need
 
Raoul said:
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It hasn't even gone under the wall, it's gone around them. They're literally just protecting against shots that will go wide and nothing else. :lol:
 
dinostar77 said:
They dont need him. Dembele is having an amazing season and is up there for a contender for balon d'or with Raphina from Barcelona.

BUT it's PSG so who knows will probably sign him, because why not?
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I know, it's just wishful thinking. This guy going to Liverpool or Arsenal will be devastating.
 
Raoul said:
That's not being honest, that's simply beginning with a worst case gloom and doom scenario. We've been linked with Osimhen, Gyokeres, and a few others, so there's a decent chance we wind up with one of them.
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I'm actually hopeful it's right, we should be beyond going for manager's choices, we should be signing whoever our recruitment team deem best suited based on much more information than the manager alone has access to.
 
Raoul said:
I wouldn't worry about the top 5 league thing, otherwise players like Lewandowski, Modric, Kvaratskhelia, and countless others who once came from lower leagues, would never see the light of day at bigger clubs. We bought Hojlund from one of the so called top 5 leagues and he's been woefully ineffective. Best thing to do is watch their actual matches and let your eyes decide for you. I've watched a fair number of Sporting games before and after Amorim left them, and have seen consistent quality from Gyokeres. He probably wouldn't be peak RvN, but he's got a lot of goals in him, which is by far our biggest problem.
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People are refusing to understand the simple principle of football. Score goals to win matches. Penny-pinching and trying young unproven players who scored 7 goals in the league before their arrival in the most important position is a stupid strategy that got us into this place in the first place. Yes there is risk with every signing, but you minimise it with buying the right profile.
 
To be fair, Hojlund did well internationally before joining united. He was scoring like 7 goals in 8 matches. He did well at Sturm Graz and also decently well at Atalanta.

If you give him the right role, he will do extremely well.
 
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