Viktor Gyökeres

EtH said:
I probably shouldn’t have mentioned Darwin in retrospect. Wasn’t actually comparing him to Gyökeres as a player so much as painting a picture of where we would be in a worst case scenario where we sign Gyökeres for a big fee, he underperforms as so many other Portuguese league exports have and we are then left with another player on high wages at an advanced age. Admittedly, as I said in other posts, that is highly unlikely as I do rate Gyökeres unlike Darwin at the time.

He certainly looks a player you would expect to have been snatched up already by one of the usual suspects. But instead it is seemingly us or Arsenal so far which I find rather odd. But then he is a bit of an odd case being that he was a Championship player for Coventry at age 24. It’s a strange arc to say the least, especially when you consider he was a Brighton youth product. Which is probably the only reason we are in with a chance of signing him.

My concerns about signing him really have more to do with our current state and the need for change in our transfer policy than his quality. We are up against it with PSR and still need players all over the pitch. Despite our recent spending we are still running Lindelöf out in big matches and our new £30m LWB looks worse than the academy player he’s currently keeping out of the team. It’s got to the point now where the more we spend on a player the less I expect them to succeed. As you said in another thread, who is the last £50m+ player who succeeded here ?

That said, if we’re going to spend £50m+ on any one player this summer I much prefer Gyökeres to Cunha.
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Re: PSR - we will be getting rid of Rashford. And there’s also a chance Garnacho might move given that we can’t accommodate Garnacho, Cunha, Amad, and Zirkzee. So if a good offer of 40-50m were to present itself by a Napoli or Atletico Madrid (or similar), I could see him going. Let’s also remember that Amorim sees Mainoo as more of an attacker than a CM, so that will add yet another player into the abundance of attackers we will have to accommodate.
 
Raoul said:
Re: PSR - we will be getting rid of Rashford. And there’s also a chance Garnacho might move given that we can’t accommodate Garnacho, Cunha, Amad, and Zirkzee. So if a good offer of 40-50m were to present itself by a Napoli or Atletico Madrid (or similar), I could see him going. Let’s also remember that Amorim sees Mainoo as more of an attacker than a CM, so that will add yet another player into the abundance of attackers we will have to accommodate.
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I can’t see it unfortunately. Rashford’s output, be it goals/assists or effort on the pitch, just doesn’t justify a significant outlay at this point. Best we can hope for is another subsidized loan next season IMO but hope I’m wrong about that. And as frustrating as Garnacho is I am really tired of seeing our young talents sold without being given a proper chance to make it here. I support Amorim but it’s concerning to see how Mainoo has been marginalized so far. Much prefer we sell Zirkzee, especially if we sign Cunha.
 
EtH said:
I can’t see it unfortunately. Rashford’s output, be it goals/assists or effort on the pitch, just doesn’t justify a significant outlay at this point. Best we can hope for is another subsidized loan next season IMO but hope I’m wrong about that. And as frustrating as Garnacho is I am really tired of seeing our young talents sold without being given a proper chance to make it here. I support Amorim but it’s concerning to see how Mainoo has been marginalized so far. Much prefer we sell Zirkzee, especially if we sign Cunha.
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There’s no question that Rashford is sellable. The wages could be baked into a lower transfer fee if necessary. In either case, PSR won’t be a problem since we have multiple home grown players we can sell.
 
Would be pleasantly surprised if we can pivot and get him in the scenario we get CL football. Amorim's comments are fine and all but it's naive to assume that a player will have the same interest in a club who is in the CL compared to one who isn't even in the conference league, of course it'll have an impact.

Delap is a good talent, as is sesko, but neither are ready to lead the line here. Gyokeres is, albeit with some flop risk.
 
golden_blunder said:
So far this PL season, United have had 3. The average across the other teams seems to be 2/3. Liverpool have had 9
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Liverpool have 1 decision against them which leads to them getting decisions for 3/4 years after... as they always bring up the one that went against them as justification.
 
golden_blunder said:
So far this PL season, United have had 3. The average across the other teams seems to be 2/3. Liverpool have had 9
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And yet nobody mentions it. Do you think if United got 200% more penalties than everyone else that we wouldn’t hear about it? Talksport would clear their entire weeks schedule
 
EtH said:
I probably shouldn’t have mentioned Darwin in retrospect. Wasn’t actually comparing him to Gyökeres as a player so much as painting a picture of where we would be in a worst case scenario where we sign Gyökeres for a big fee, he underperforms as so many other Portuguese league exports have and we are then left with another player on high wages at an advanced age. Admittedly, as I said in other posts, that is highly unlikely as I do rate Gyökeres unlike Darwin at the time.

He certainly looks a player you would expect to have been snatched up already by one of the usual suspects. But instead it is seemingly us or Arsenal so far which I find rather odd. But then he is a bit of an odd case being that he was a Championship player for Coventry at age 24. It’s a strange arc to say the least, especially when you consider he was a Brighton youth product. Which is probably the only reason we are in with a chance of signing him.

My concerns about signing him really have more to do with our current state and the need for change in our transfer policy than his quality. We are up against it with PSR and still need players all over the pitch. Despite our recent spending we are still running Lindelöf out in big matches and our new £30m LWB looks worse than the academy player he’s currently keeping out of the team. It’s got to the point now where the more we spend on a player the less I expect him to succeed. As you said in another thread, who is the last £50m+ player who succeeded here ?

That said, if we’re going to spend £50m+ on any one player this summer I much prefer Gyökeres to Cunha.
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Yes I can see him flopping like so many other Portuguese league exports like Cristiano Ronaldo, Nani, Bruno Fernandes, Raul Jimenez, Ramires, Matic, Ederson, Bernardo Silva, Ruben Dias, etc. with names like that getting bullied when they moved to scary England he has no hope!

Gyökeres may flop wherever he goes, but it is lazy to boil it down to the big bad Premier League being too tough for foreigners when we have seen countless players come and be stars in the league. There are numerous reasons for players not working out at a club, I think deeper thinking needs to happen as opposed to boring cliches and base level reasoning.
 
romufc said:
Liverpool have 1 decision against them which leads to them getting decisions for 3/4 years after... as they always bring up the one that went against them as justification.
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These stats are meaningless.

The only stat that matters is how many penalties Liverpool were wrongly given and how many penalties were wrongly not given to other teams.

Certain teams - like ones with good attackers - are likely to get more penalties.
 
Amir said:
These stats are meaningless.

The only stat that matters is how many penalties Liverpool were wrongly given and how many penalties were wrongly not given to other teams.

Certain teams - like ones with good attackers - are likely to get more penalties.
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That’s not the whole story though, although I do agree. It’s the soft ones where technically you could argue for it, that they get but we aren’t getting in a month of Sundays. It’s the massive grey area in the middle where teams will be getting hard done by.
 
Apokalips said:
Yes I can see him flopping like so many other Portuguese league exports like Cristiano Ronaldo, Nani, Bruno Fernandes, Raul Jimenez, Ramires, Matic, Ederson, Bernardo Silva, Ruben Dias, etc. with names like that getting bullied when they moved to scary England he has no hope!

Gyökeres may flop wherever he goes, but it is lazy to boil it down to the big bad Premier League being too tough for foreigners when we have seen countless players come and be stars in the league. There are numerous reasons for players not working out at a club, I think deeper thinking needs to happen as opposed to boring cliches and base level reasoning.
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He was a mediocre player at Coventry FFS. Did you actually read my post or are you just being thick ?
 
Let him go to the bottle jobs, he can over celebrate wnd whip up the crowd every week.

If he's lucky he might get on the end of a few long throws and be treated to one of lego heads light bulb team talks.
 
Obviously he is an upgrade on what we have but I just do not see him doing it here, ok he will get goals but he will not be pulling up trees, maybe I have been burnt by too many failed super star players coming in, am put off Osimhen too for the same reason, if they were coming on loan or the cheap I would be all for it but £60m + the wages for either, in a way seems a good deal considering what we could pay, but that is so much of the money we don't have to spend, but then if Delap chooses to go elsewhere we are not getting anyone as cheap as either Gykores or Osimhen, I just fear that the expectations for either will be too high and at Utd that leads to toxicity
 
I love the idea of him telling the media his plans…every couple of days haha!

Gotta love the summer transfer window.
 
Mike Smalling said:
They'd be absolute fools to not go all in for him. They have a window of opportunity now, where they will be able really challenge with the core of their current side and a new quality striker.
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They won't challenge under Arteta and his long ball and throw in tactics.
 
He can go to Arsenal and finish second or reach semi finals, or he can be part of the resurgence at a club who win actual trophies, even at our worst.
 
The final seems to be more than just a “final” with no European football, it’s vital to our short term future in terms of recruitment, which obviously has an impact on where we finish next season - this Gyokeres transfer seems indivicative of that
 
Fortitude said:
There's a very interesting combination of things going on with Gyokeres: 1. The league he's playing in isn't very good and; 2. He has all the traits of a top class striker in the making, regardless.

Points 1 and 2 blur lines because you have to factor 1 into the goals and movement you see, but then you look at how sharp he is to do what he's doing and go where he's going and it's top class, clean, crisp ball striking, reading of play and opportunities and a player whose actions look wholly transferable to a considerably better league.

Another way of putting it is a player from a better league dropping down to a lesser one and instead of falling in line with the mean, using said league to ruthlessly stack goals.

He's definitely the striker I like the look of the most and I think he's going to go on and do big things wherever he goes. He's not a Jardel or Peyroteo who were men against boys in terms of stature etc. nor Darwin who went on a tear up in Portugal but still looked underwhelming in the footage, which proved itself with his bumbling, stumbling, erratic ways for Liverpool. Gyokeres just looks sharp and in total control of himself and completely effortless in executing exactly what he wants to do. The ball never gets away from him; he rarely has back lift on his shots; he hits them hard and true into the corners of the net; he's quick in both thought and athletically. His execution actually reminds me of Haaland more than any other striker out there, in that he's made up his mind, drawn his foot back and executed within the tiniest windows of opportunity.

You would think this is the guy to put the most money into as the #1 target of the summer. If we can't get Wharton, this is where I'd be putting the priority resources and working backwards with other positions and allocation of funds. Assuming he has any interest in coming here, of course.
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Davie Moyes said:
Great post, enjoyed reading that. You've made up my mind about him as not really watched him play.
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Cheers.
Rainy nights in Stoke said:
Largely agree with this - good post. People are so lazy and just look at stats rather than use their own eyes and brains when assessing players. Reasonable short-cut when you don’t have time to watch all the players we get linked with yourself, but often steers people wrong.

Then you have the players like Amad where you could see early on that he had a technical level, speed of thought and excellent awareness of space that would put him in a good place to excel, even if he didn’t have the physical attributes and tenacity (yet) to make the step up. He wasn’t dominating to that extent, but he was one where you could see that if he just could add some ingredients to his game he could be a massive success. Mastantuono is a similar one where you can just see by how he moves, even in short YouTube clips, that he has that foundation to become an absolutely excellent player. Consistently excellent technique, spatial awareness and an excellent strike. He’ll likely take a while to adapt to the speed and physicality of a league like the prem, but if can cut it physically he’ll be a success.

Out of interest, what are the markers you see in Gyökeres that makes you think he’ll smash it?
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Don’t know how I missed this, sorry.

I made the post above, which I think answers your question as those are some of the markers/attributes I look out for in a forward/#9, regardless of whether they are in a top league, a poor one, u-20’s or even under 15’s.

Someone like Greenwood, for example, many of us who watched him before he turned pro stated he had world class shooting and many resemblances to Van Persie (no less) because it was obvious.

The way a striker hits the ball, how much time it takes for him to whip in his shots etc are things that get the Spider Senses tingling immediately.
 
Fortitude said:
Cheers.

Don’t know how I missed this, sorry.

I made the post above, which I think answers your question as those are some of the markers/attributes I look out for in a forward/#9, regardless of whether they are in a top league, a poor one, u-20’s or even under 15’s.

Someone like Greenwood, for example, many of us who watched him before he turned pro stated he had world class shooting and many resemblances to Van Persie (no less) because it was obvious.

The way a striker hits the ball, how much time it takes for him to whip in his shots etc are things that get the Spider Senses tingling immediately.
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Yeah I think your final point is key and it's why he passes the eye test. He's very good at taking the ball and making the correct touch to build separation and get a shot away. That translates across leagues, it's speed and strength which tends not to but he's decent in both those anyway.

I honestly think he has that rare top striker instinct that you see with the likes of Kane, Lewandowski, Mason Mount.
 
arthurka said:
They won't challenge under Arteta and his long ball and throw in tactics.
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Love some of the tactical analysis in here, especially of Arteta's tactics

Seen every part of the spectrum, from playing too slow and deliberate and Pep Lite and how the Caf hates that, to now being Set Piece FC, Long Throws and Long Balls and Stoke Lite, and how the Caf hates that.
 
GoonerBear said:
Love some of the tactical analysis in here, especially of Arteta's tactics

Seen every part of the spectrum, from playing too slow and deliberate and Pep Lite and how the Caf hates that, to now being Set Piece FC, Long Throws and Long Balls and Stoke Lite, and how the Caf hates that.
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He’s no Pep and he’s certainly no Pulis.
 
diarm said:
He can go to Arsenal and finish second or reach semi finals, or he can be part of the resurgence at a club who win actual trophies, even at our worst.
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Yeah ball is in his court, all we can do is try and win Europa League then hope he's not decided on a club yet
 
Smores said:
Yeah I think your final point is key and it's why he passes the eye test. He's very good at taking the ball and making the correct touch to build separation and get a shot away. That translates across leagues, it's speed and strength which tends not to but he's decent in both those anyway.

I honestly think he has that rare top striker instinct that you see with the likes of Kane, Lewandowski, Mason Mount.
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Those two scrubs don’t belong in the same sentence as the great Mountona
 
2 man midfield said:
And yet nobody mentions it. Do you think if United got 200% more penalties than everyone else that we wouldn’t hear about it? Talksport would clear their entire weeks schedule
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Exactly. Wasn't it Ole's 2nd season where we had the highest pens in the league but like only 2-3 more than City, and how everyone kept moaning about it and with the pinnacle being the Klopp's moaning; and we suddenly stopped getting any pen decisions.
 
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