I'm not sure what's the point of these posts and what are you trying to prove. Loads of United fans repeatedly say that he's world class and one of the best in the world.
Guys I thought we talked about this.
I don't know what he was doing for Suarez's goal but I'm not sure i'd label Messi's opener poor defending. He just has a way of ghosting unseen into good positions, he's done it against every top defender on the planet. We can sit here and say VVD should have tracked him but he's done it so many times i'd label it great attacking play rather than poor defending.
To make the footballing world realize that fans of all clubs are equally biased and silly. There's loads of United fans that post rationally, of course, there's also loads that bump the thread every time he misplaces a pass. It just does my head in to see people constantly moan about rival fans overrating and underrating this and that whilst doing the exact same fecking thing. Mindlessly praising him is one thing, accusing others of doing so whilst mindlessly bashing him is just an amount of irony I cannot cope with.
Cheers for taking this noble mission but nobody asked for it so stop doing it. It's neither funny and as you say it's annoying.
Not tracking runners is only a mistake and tactical error if it happens to our players, apparently.
Look at VvD and Messi's positions. I'm not sure how people can claim that VvD couldn't have done anything about the second goal. Messi is behind him when Suarez shoots at the goal.
Yes sir.
Indeed. If you take a look at the whole move it makes his actions even more odd. Messi started the move with a good 10 yards behind him yet he didn't even look around at any point and let him waltz past him on the inside.
Look at VvD and Messi's positions. I'm not sure how people can claim that VvD couldn't have done anything about the second goal. Messi is behind him when Suarez shoots at the goal.
Very fair and correct opinion IMO.
These changes explain why VVD has a lot less defending to do compared to a decade ago. But also that the overall defensive organisation of teams has changed and makes it easier for defenders to avoid 1 vs 1 sitations. When you have more defending to do, more tackles, interceptions, etc. you are more exposed to mistakes. In most of the games Liverpool are stiffling the opposition and VVD has little to do apart from winning long balls.
Since the likes of Rio and Terry spent their entire careers in the PL and with the exception of early in their careers they always played on good teams those will always be weird comparisons. But, Van Dijk joined Liverpool around the same age Sol Campbell joined Arsenal, Carvalho joined Chelsea and Jaap Stam joined Manchester United so those are fair comparisons.
Perfect summary! Now lets all move on.
My point was that it’s way too soon in his career at top level to start comparing him with the best defenders the league has seen. If he stays at this level for a couple of seasons, then sure.
Every defensive error can be absolved using that logic. It's more logical to accept the defensive lapse and acknowledge mistakes being part of the game rather than to shift blame IMO
It's not ridiculous though. What about all the other stats? How did Titus fare? What about errors? Goals conceded? Tackles won? Etc etc. Vidic beat a VVD on EVERYTHING and conceded less. You the type of guy who thinks Salah is better than Suarez because of last season.....
Because United had a sturdy defence for 3 seasons by then. Vidic was a victim of his own success. VVD won it because of his impact on a previously poor defence
You mean it's more difficult to play at Nou Camp against on-fire Messi than at Cobbled Ground or something against John Walker?
You went too far. Smalling is terrific defensively but Jones isn't that great a defender.
Vidic never got PFA but he won Premier League player of the year in both 2009 and 2011.
They aren't I'm afraid. Smalling is close and when in mood, comparable defensively but Jones is a good notch below.
Christ. I know Barcelona put 3 past them yesterday but still. He's far superior to either of them. He suffers a little from lack of concentration/awareness but so do those two.
This.
I disagree.
Yeah those are fair points which I agree with. Would also add that United only scored 68 goals in 2008/09 which showed both the strength of their defence and reflected a more defensive style of play. But fundamentally I agree that Vidic in 2008/09 is as good as it has gotten in the Premier League and that Van Dijk needs another season or so to consolidate his place in the top bracket when we compare extended peaks.
This is a madness. I hate the scum but deary me.
'Nobody considered him a top defender at Southampton' !!!!!!! No mate, apart from Liverpool who splashed out a world record fee for a defender of £75m !!!!! ... and their judgement has been proved very astute.
It's not even that. In that situation, defenders are taught to move towards were the ball is, to protect the goal. Instead he moves away from it. Think it was either a lapse in concentration or he gave the play for dead thinking it was going in. Most likely the latter
Look at VvD and Messi's positions. I'm not sure how people can claim that VvD couldn't have done anything about the second goal. Messi is behind him when Suarez shoots at the goal.
It is the nature of this social media age and the hype frenzy that makes any type of accurate placing of a player historically close to impossible and pointless to even attempt. Why is there even an argument that he is the best defender in the history of the PL, what is really driving that narrative? Your point about him needing more great seasons seems so obvious but we are so obsessed with prisoner of the moment grand statements, can't just be one of the best, has to be the best.
He should have been more aware and tracked them at both goals. Easier said than done obviously as it was topclass movement from Suarez and Messi.
Also, this is totally on VVD. He should track Suarez. He's big and tall and cut for the PL but against nimble forwards he was left wanting.
